And...4-4-2

[Silvio Dante]

This, IMO, is a huge part of where we’ve gone wrong the last two games. And even prior. The forum has been vocal about getting Nic into the side - and he only fits this so you can’t have one without the other. But look at what we lose:

- The other side there is no natural width. Josh was pony today, but even when good, he’s not a winger. In a 4-5-1 or 3-5-2 his movement makes him. 4-4-2 - we have a relatively crap winger

- There isn’t the ability to overload on the flanks. I really think we’re missing JD, but at the same time, if Hunt doesn’t play on the other side we have no natural up and back defender

- Nagy and Massengo are both good footballers. But they can get bullied. They need that extra body! Vs Fulham they didn’t play physical vs them 

This was coming. I like Eliasson - and he isn’t the sole reason for 4-4-2 failing. But if he doesn’t fit anywhere else, he needs to be dropped to put us in a better team set up.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

This, IMO, is a huge part of where we’ve gone wrong the last two games. And even prior. The forum has been vocal about getting Nic into the side - and he only fits this so you can’t have one without the other. But look at what we lose:

- The other side there is no natural width. Josh was pony today, but even when good, he’s not a winger. In a 4-5-1 or 3-5-2 his movement makes him. 4-4-2 - we have a relatively crap winger

- There isn’t the ability to overload on the flanks. I really think we’re missing JD, but at the same time, if Hunt doesn’t play on the other side we have no natural up and back defender

- Nagy and Massengo are both good footballers. But they can get bullied. They need that extra body! Vs Fulham they didn’t play physical vs them 

This was coming. I like Eliasson - and he isn’t the sole reason for 4-4-2 failing. But if he doesn’t fit anywhere else, he needs to be dropped to put us in a better team set up.

Need to scrap this 442. Diedhiou and Weimann right up there as 2 strikers leaves us light in midfield and Weimann doesn't offer himself deep for passes from our midfield.

Can go other systems and play Eliasson though. He didn't have the best of games by his standards, but still thought he was one of our best players today. 

[AppyDAZE]

25 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

This, IMO, is a huge part of where we’ve gone wrong the last two games. And even prior. The forum has been vocal about getting Nic into the side - and he only fits this so you can’t have one without the other. But look at what we lose:

- The other side there is no natural width. Josh was pony today, but even when good, he’s not a winger. In a 4-5-1 or 3-5-2 his movement makes him. 4-4-2 - we have a relatively crap winger

- There isn’t the ability to overload on the flanks. I really think we’re missing JD, but at the same time, if Hunt doesn’t play on the other side we have no natural up and back defender

- Nagy and Massengo are both good footballers. But they can get bullied. They need that extra body! Vs Fulham they didn’t play physical vs them 

This was coming. I like Eliasson - and he isn’t the sole reason for 4-4-2 failing. But if he doesn’t fit anywhere else, he needs to be dropped to put us in a better team set up.

Well spotted.

[spudski]

I feel for LJ...just who can he trust to be consistent?

The likes of Famara, Palmer and Eliasson are so inconsistent.

One week they play well...earn a spot, then revert to useless. When picked...those three also have an effect on how others play as well.

Today I thought Eliasson and Famara were the weak links...that in turn had an effect on the likes of Brownhill who was less effective...meant Nagy and Massengo got overloaded and over worked...and Weimann tried to do the work of two men, that resulted in nullifying any threat.

For me...our Keeper, Defenders and Defensive Midfielders are pretty much reliable and consistent.

Any mistakes from them, generally results from the inefficiency of players further upfield. Regardless of formation.

It frustrates me so much when you hear fans moan when our full backs turn and pass sideways...or our DM's have to do the same.

Are these fans watching our offensive players?

On so many occasions we have four players stood static in a line across the pitch with defenders on them. Fam just stands there... Eliasson just stands on the touchline, regardless of where the ball is...it could be on the other side of the pitch, but he'll still be stuck on the other side of the pitch. You see our defence and midfield slide as a unit, depending where the ball is...but our forward line never does the same. It's always 4 players strung out in the most expansive line. It's useless and ineffective.

Our problems on the pitch, aren't down to formations, but more to do with the ineffective movement of our forward line...which in turn effects the rest of the team by putting them under unwarranted extra pressure.

LJ talks of doing the basics right...how about the forward line moving, moving into the right areas, as in creating angles and space, rather than moving into an area where it's physically impossible to receive a pass, or that creates less space rather than more.

The movement up front is shocking.

[mozo]

9 minutes ago, spudski said:

I feel for LJ...just who can he trust to be consistent?

The likes of Famara, Palmer and Eliasson are so inconsistent.

One week they play well...earn a spot, then revert to useless. When picked...those three also have an effect on how others play as well.

Today I thought Eliasson and Famara were the weak links...that in turn had an effect on the likes of Brownhill who was less effective...meant Nagy and Massengo got overloaded and over worked...and Weimann tried to do the work of two men, that resulted in nullifying any threat.

For me...our Keeper, Defenders and Defensive Midfielders are pretty much reliable and consistent.

Any mistakes from them, generally results from the inefficiency of players further upfield. Regardless of formation.

It frustrates me so much when you hear fans moan when our full backs turn and pass sideways...or our DM's have to do the same.

Are these fans watching our offensive players?

On so many occasions we have four players stood static in a line across the pitch with defenders on them. Fam just stands there... Eliasson just stands on the touchline, regardless of where the ball is...it could be on the other side of the pitch, but he'll still be stuck on the other side of the pitch. You see our defence and midfield slide as a unit, depending where the ball is...but our forward line never does the same. It's always 4 players strung out in the most expansive line. It's useless and ineffective.

Our problems on the pitch, aren't down to formations, but more to do with the ineffective movement of our forward line...which in turn effects the rest of the team by putting them under unwarranted extra pressure.

LJ talks of doing the basics right...how about the forward line moving, moving into the right areas, as in creating angles and space, rather than moving into an area where it's physically impossible to receive a pass, or that creates less space rather than more.

The movement up front is shocking.

Agreed, but the great unknowable is... are the players inconsistent due to their own failings, or due to the tactics? 

[spudski]

12 minutes ago, mozo said:

Agreed, but the great unknowable is... are the players inconsistent due to their own failings, or due to the tactics? 

Their own failings imo.

Based on the fact they can do it well...but never consistently. Which then leads to never ending changes.

 

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, mozo said:

Agreed, but the great unknowable is... are the players inconsistent due to their own failings, or due to the tactics? 

Tactics. Most of those players in the last 2 games played so well in the 2 games previous to that. It would be a weird coincidence that every player has off days at the same time.

[Bristol_Badger]

Basically saying that Weimann is in-droppable is poor from Johnson... having said that, striking options are limited. 

[SedRA]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

I feel for LJ...just who can he trust to be consistent?

The likes of Famara, Palmer and Eliasson are so inconsistent.

One week they play well...earn a spot, then revert to useless. When picked...those three also have an effect on how others play as well.

Today I thought Eliasson and Famara were the weak links...that in turn had an effect on the likes of Brownhill who was less effective...meant Nagy and Massengo got overloaded and over worked...and Weimann tried to do the work of two men, that resulted in nullifying any threat.

For me...our Keeper, Defenders and Defensive Midfielders are pretty much reliable and consistent.

Any mistakes from them, generally results from the inefficiency of players further upfield. Regardless of formation.

It frustrates me so much when you hear fans moan when our full backs turn and pass sideways...or our DM's have to do the same.

Are these fans watching our offensive players?

On so many occasions we have four players stood static in a line across the pitch with defenders on them. Fam just stands there... Eliasson just stands on the touchline, regardless of where the ball is...it could be on the other side of the pitch, but he'll still be stuck on the other side of the pitch. You see our defence and midfield slide as a unit, depending where the ball is...but our forward line never does the same. It's always 4 players strung out in the most expansive line. It's useless and ineffective.

Our problems on the pitch, aren't down to formations, but more to do with the ineffective movement of our forward line...which in turn effects the rest of the team by putting them under unwarranted extra pressure.

LJ talks of doing the basics right...how about the forward line moving, moving into the right areas, as in creating angles and space, rather than moving into an area where it's physically impossible to receive a pass, or that creates less space rather than more.

The movement up front is shocking.

I don’t feel sorry for LJ, ultimately the buck stops with him. These players are his, so if they’ve got problems with consistency that’s on him. Whether it’s mentality, fitness, ability, tactics it doesn’t matter - by this point it’s his recruitment, his philosophy, his coaching set up, his man management. 
 

To me they are a reflection of his leadership - overthought/coached, lacking clarity and consistency. 

[CityCiderEd]

24 minutes ago, RedSA said:

I don’t feel sorry for LJ, ultimately the buck stops with him. These players are his, so if they’ve got problems with consistency that’s on him. Whether it’s mentality, fitness, ability, tactics it doesn’t matter - by this point it’s his recruitment, his philosophy, his coaching set up, his man management. 
 

To me they are a reflection of his leadership - overthought/coached, lacking clarity and consistency. 

Spot on, why should anyone feel sorry for a coach who is not getting the best from his players. WTF do they do in training before a game to perform like they have never played together before. 

[AppyDAZE]

 

"We have to be more aggressive in our simplicity"    

Lee, cut the shit and just talk normal. It isn't helping anything, honestly it isn't, and it is really ******* annoying to listen to even after a win actually.

We are not idiots, so please don't try to talk like we know jack shit about football just because we are only the fans.

We were CRAP today, so just hold your hands up and don't try to talk like a professor or something.

It only sounds laughable.

[CityCiderEd]

Lee.......we Just need to be better. We currently are playing like a team devoid of ideas,confidence and passion at AG but a different team away from home. 

[Dr Balls]

Blackburn had better tactics and some experienced, decent players in midfield (Bradley Johnson & Lewis Holtby among them). The form table doesn’t lie - we are mid table over the last 6 (W2, D1, L3) while Millwall & Blackburn are on good runs. Doesn’t bode well for taking on Wednesday (with a Jordan Rhodes 1st half hat trick today) or Brentford, who are both on good runs too. And even Luton must fancy taking us on at AG given our home form.

As for our tactics and formation, we need more strength and creativity in midfield, while it would help if our centre backs brought the ball out from the back. Possibly easier to do with a back 3. Taylor Moore is the best at bringing the ball out from the back so should play in the 3. Also means that any team wanting to press the centre backs would need to play 3 up front which few will do away from home. As for the midfield we need a 3 plus wing backs.
 

Finally is the question of who and how to play up front. It’s clear Diedhiou and Weimann are not a “front pair”. However with so few good alternatives (Semenyo, Watkins, Rodri) it’s hard to see who else we could play up there. Playing a version of 3-5-2, with Weimann & Palmer in front of the midfield 3 might not be a bad combination to try with Diedhiou and Eliasson off the bench. However in Afobe’s absence we need a striker in January.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Dr Balls said:

Blackburn had better tactics and some experienced, decent players in midfield (Bradley Johnson & Lewis Holtby among them). The form table doesn’t lie - we are mid table over the last 6 (W2, D1, L3) while Millwall & Blackburn are on good runs. Doesn’t bode well for taking on Wednesday (with a Jordan Rhodes 1st half hat trick today) or Brentford, who are both on good runs too. And even Luton must fancy taking us on at AG given our home form.

As for our tactics and formation, we need more strength and creativity in midfield, while it would help if our centre backs brought the ball out from the back. Possibly easier to do with a back 3. Taylor Moore is the best at bringing the ball out from the back so should play in the 3. Also means that any team wanting to press the centre backs would need to play 3 up front which few will do away from home. As for the midfield we need a 3 plus wing backs.
 

Finally is the question of who and how to play up front. It’s clear Diedhiou and Weimann are not a “front pair”. However with so few good alternatives (Semenyo, Watkins, Rodri) it’s hard to see who else we could play up there. Playing a version of 3-5-2, with Weimann & Palmer in front of the midfield 3 might not be a bad combination to try with Diedhiou and Eliasson off the bench. However in Afobe’s absence we need a striker in January.

We saw Palmer behind Weimann against WBA and that was a disaster. If LJ did what you say with 3 at the back, then I'd rather he went with Eliasson and one other floating behind Fam in a 343. Even Brownhill very advanced with Eliasson, Nagy and Korey sitting, obviously sometimes Massengo.

[DaveInSA]

12 hours ago, spudski said:

Are these fans watching our offensive players?

 

12 hours ago, spudski said:

The movement up front is shocking.

 

@spudski, you called it.

I started a thread called static. When you watch on the TV you don't really see the problem, in the stadium it's clear as day. I don't get the chance to go very often and on that showing I won't bother again. It was a slow motion tragedy.

Our Front 6 were awful, in every way. 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 hours ago, CityCiderEd said:

Lee.......we Just need to be better. We currently are playing like a team devoid of ideas,confidence and passion at AG but a different team away from home. 

Away from home, we tend to get results without the ball. By which I mean with less than 50% possession.

For a variety of reasons, this is much harder to replicate at home. Absolutely not the sole reason but it doesn't help. This 4-4-2 also a problem. So are and were injuries though...no simple answers. Fear a bit of a thrashing v Brentford on current form though their current ethos means might do okay!

Was expecting a tough game v Blackburn regardless, think I tipped them as outside top 6 contenders in summer.

[wendyredredrobin]

Sounds like we are going to need to revert to a 2521 or 3512 formation which will leave Eliasson back on the bench.  I would also bring in Smith for Massengo to give us a bit more bite in the middle.

The big question for me is which combination of our 5 centre backs do we use. Whilst no one can deny that Ash has done well, Kalas, Moore and Baker are the future.

Coming into the silly season, we are going to have to rotate a bit anyway.

[spudski]

28 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

 

 

@spudski, you called it.

I started a thread called static. When you watch on the TV you don't really see the problem, in the stadium it's clear as day. I don't get the chance to go very often and on that showing I won't bother again. It was a slow motion tragedy.

Our Front 6 were awful, in every way. 

 

It truly is awful.

I've watched for weeks...and it's the same problems.

As an example...when Afobe was playing it showed. The man was proactive, intelligent runs, constantly moving into the right areas, either to receive the ball or create space for others. Dangerous in the box, knowing how to outwit the defender.

This in turn allowed players to play their natural game. It gave them a passing option...allowed others like Weimann to be in dangerous areas, rather than working and pressing for others.

Some fans are constantly calling for certain players to play...they eventually get called in, have one or two good games, then resort to type. We are constantly carrying players that are inconsistent.

Those mainly at fault imo...are Famara, Eliasson and Palmer. And when they don't play well, it has a knock on effect to the rest of the team, putting them under immense pressure.

Weimann runs around pressing and trying to cover Famaras lack of mobility and energy. Brownhill often ends up in no man's land...neither defensive or offensive...confused.

Yesterday was a prime example.

A front line expansively stretched from one touchline to the next. All pretty much static with a defender on them.

Famara being the worse...looking for balls over the top in front of him, where there is literally 5 yards to put the ball, with an advancing keeper and two defenders on him the bloke has a footballing brain of a donkey. Totally reactive rather than proactive...no wonder Weimann was shouting at him to friggin move. Always on his heels and falling over. Sorry...but when I see him trying to get the fans going, it boils my piss. He gives more energy doing that, than actually running with purpose and energy.

As another example...when our RB or RM have the ball by the right touchline in our own half...what generally happens is Weimann will move towards the ball or down the channel. This move will get followed by defenders. Watch Famara...does he slide across into the space left and given by Weimann. Does he ever come diagonally for the ball? No...never. He stays static generally in an area to the right hand side of the opposition's 18 yard box. In not moving across...the RB generally has no options on, has to turn and recycle the ball back across the defence. Our fans then go nuts shouting and moaning about the ball not going forward and blame the defence.

They have no options but to go back. Famara doesn't move or slide across and in doing so stops Eliasson also moving across.

In not moving he's effectively putting two of our players out of the game when attacking.

The bloke is lazy, reactive, doesn't have a natural forwards brain, can't trap a ball for toffee and is massively effecting our teams performance. His only benefit is defending set pieces or at our own set pieces. Occasionally when we do get a cross in, he may cause a problem...but it's way too little. He is powder puff for a man his size as well.

I can see why LJ plays him as he adds height at set pieces to what is a generally small in stature team and very physically weak.

We can compete against 'footballing' sides...but when it gets physical how do we expect to compete physically with Massengo, Nagy, Brownhill, Eliasson, Odowda? What physical presence do we have in midfield? Smith isn't the answer.

We play nice football when we are allowed to and given space.

Play against the likes of Millwall and Blackburn and we can't compete physically.

[Cowshed]

12 minutes ago, spudski said:

It truly is awful.

I've watched for weeks...and it's the same problems.

As an example...when Afobe was playing it showed. The man was proactive, intelligent runs, constantly moving into the right areas, either to receive the ball or create space for others. Dangerous in the box, knowing how to outwit the defender.

This in turn allowed players to play their natural game. It gave them a passing option...allowed others like Weimann to be in dangerous areas, rather than working and pressing for others.

Some fans are constantly calling for certain players to play...they eventually get called in, have one or two good games, then resort to type. We are constantly carrying players that are inconsistent.

Those mainly at fault imo...are Famara, Eliasson and Palmer. And when they don't play well, it has a knock on effect to the rest of the team, putting them under immense pressure.

Weimann runs around pressing and trying to cover Famaras lack of mobility and energy. Brownhill often ends up in no man's land...neither defensive or offensive...confused.

Yesterday was a prime example.

A front line expansively stretched from one touchline to the next. All pretty much static with a defender on them.

Famara being the worse...looking for balls over the top in front of him, where there is literally 5 yards to put the ball, with an advancing keeper and two defenders on him the bloke has a footballing brain of a donkey. Totally reactive rather than proactive...no wonder Weimann was shouting at him to friggin move. Always on his heels and falling over. Sorry...but when I see him trying to get the fans going, it boils my piss. He gives more energy doing that, than actually running with purpose and energy.

As another example...when our RB or RM have the ball by the right touchline in our own half...what generally happens is Weimann will move towards the ball or down the channel. This move will get followed by defenders. Watch Famara...does he slide across into the space left and given by Weimann. Does he ever come diagonally for the ball? No...never. He stays static generally in an area to the right hand side of the opposition's 18 yard box. In not moving across...the RB generally has no options on, has to turn and recycle the ball back across the defence. Our fans then go nuts shouting and moaning about the ball not going forward and blame the defence.

They have no options but to go back. Famara doesn't move or slide across and in doing so stops Eliasson also moving across.

In not moving he's effectively putting two of our players out of the game when attacking.

The bloke is lazy, reactive, doesn't have a natural forwards brain, can't trap a ball for toffee and is massively effecting our teams performance. His only benefit is defending set pieces or at our own set pieces. Occasionally when we do get a cross in, he may cause a problem...but it's way too little. He is powder puff for a man his size as well.

I can see why LJ plays him as he adds height at set pieces to what is a generally small in stature team and very physically weak.

We can compete against 'footballing' sides...but when it gets physical how do we expect to compete physically with Massengo, Nagy, Brownhill, Eliasson, Odowda? What physical presence do we have in midfield? Smith isn't the answer.

We play nice football when we are allowed to and given space.

Play against the likes of Millwall and Blackburn and we can't compete physically.

You have done that one before. And I have done this one. The team is having less possession. Its for want of a better term not out footballing opponents. The team here could be more effective if clear decisions were made as to what Bristol City are. Mr Johnson is in a cycle of bringing in and leaving out the three players you mention. That is a commitment to inconsistency. Its a choice. Its his players. Its a reflection of his ideas. A theme of Mr Johnsons years in the job. 

 

[CityCiderEd]

Summed up perfectly Spudski. Our movement off the ball is almost non existent with yesterday being a prime example. We made Blackburn look a very good side but in reality they were just very well organised with willing runners that caused us so many problems.

[spudski]

I agree about the recycling of Palmer, Famara and Eliasson. The latter two imo don't compliment the rest of our squad.

In playing them it counters everything else that is good about our side.

Imo our strength is playing without Fam and Eliasson.

Below is a team that looks far more balanced and plays to our strengths rather than weaknesses. Hoping it happens sooner rather than later.

Obviously Afobe and Nketiah are dreams...but a player of that ilk to suit.

______________Bentley_______________

______Kalas___Williams___Moore_____

Hunt__________Nagy__________DaSilva

_____Brownhill______Hans/Palmer_____

________Weimann__Afobe/Nketiah_____

[shelts]

Need a brute in the middle of the park a destroyer like Livermore at WBA 

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, spudski said:

It truly is awful.

I've watched for weeks...and it's the same problems.

As an example...when Afobe was playing it showed. The man was proactive, intelligent runs, constantly moving into the right areas, either to receive the ball or create space for others. Dangerous in the box, knowing how to outwit the defender.

This in turn allowed players to play their natural game. It gave them a passing option...allowed others like Weimann to be in dangerous areas, rather than working and pressing for others.

Some fans are constantly calling for certain players to play...they eventually get called in, have one or two good games, then resort to type. We are constantly carrying players that are inconsistent.

Those mainly at fault imo...are Famara, Eliasson and Palmer. And when they don't play well, it has a knock on effect to the rest of the team, putting them under immense pressure.

Weimann runs around pressing and trying to cover Famaras lack of mobility and energy. Brownhill often ends up in no man's land...neither defensive or offensive...confused.

Yesterday was a prime example.

A front line expansively stretched from one touchline to the next. All pretty much static with a defender on them.

Famara being the worse...looking for balls over the top in front of him, where there is literally 5 yards to put the ball, with an advancing keeper and two defenders on him the bloke has a footballing brain of a donkey. Totally reactive rather than proactive...no wonder Weimann was shouting at him to friggin move. Always on his heels and falling over. Sorry...but when I see him trying to get the fans going, it boils my piss. He gives more energy doing that, than actually running with purpose and energy.

As another example...when our RB or RM have the ball by the right touchline in our own half...what generally happens is Weimann will move towards the ball or down the channel. This move will get followed by defenders. Watch Famara...does he slide across into the space left and given by Weimann. Does he ever come diagonally for the ball? No...never. He stays static generally in an area to the right hand side of the opposition's 18 yard box. In not moving across...the RB generally has no options on, has to turn and recycle the ball back across the defence. Our fans then go nuts shouting and moaning about the ball not going forward and blame the defence.

They have no options but to go back. Famara doesn't move or slide across and in doing so stops Eliasson also moving across.

In not moving he's effectively putting two of our players out of the game when attacking.

The bloke is lazy, reactive, doesn't have a natural forwards brain, can't trap a ball for toffee and is massively effecting our teams performance. His only benefit is defending set pieces or at our own set pieces. Occasionally when we do get a cross in, he may cause a problem...but it's way too little. He is powder puff for a man his size as well.

I can see why LJ plays him as he adds height at set pieces to what is a generally small in stature team and very physically weak.

We can compete against 'footballing' sides...but when it gets physical how do we expect to compete physically with Massengo, Nagy, Brownhill, Eliasson, Odowda? What physical presence do we have in midfield? Smith isn't the answer.

We play nice football when we are allowed to and given space.

Play against the likes of Millwall and Blackburn and we can't compete physically.

For me Weimann was our worst player over the last 2 games, with the exception of Palmer who was diabolical when coming on against Millwall.

I have noticed Weimann does not show for the ball. As the number 10 type, and Famara being the number 9 type in the partnership, Weimann has to do more. He has to come off into midfield and offer himself a forward pass for our midfielders.

 He runs around a lot, but often makes runs out wide. He doesn't like the ball in tight spaces like Reid did. And his link up play with Fam is poor. He doesn't ever get close enough to Fam. It's a poor combination.

Fam is like most target men, he hasn't got fantastic movement. But his role is to occupy defenders. He does his job well imo. 

I would rather LJ either go with Weimann and someone like Watkins, which doesn't exactly get me excited, though they work better as a partnership. Or I would rather he play Diedhiou up top on his own in a 4231 and get runners with skill and pace playing off of him. Or even go 343 with Eliasson and maybe Brownhill floating behind Fam in a lone role.

I am not saying Fam is fantastic or that Weimann is rubbish. But as a partnership, when they are both right up top in a 442, they link up terribly.

People don't seem to mention Weimann having a poor game because of all his running. It's about time he started doing things on the ball in his position.

[Taz]

Give Eliasson the free role behind the strikers. Let him get around either side, and cause a problem from a different position.

He has the energy and his crossing is some of the best in the league. 

We have looked completely out of sorts recently, but can you really leave him out of the team with his stats?

I wonder whether a bigger problem is the midfield trio of Brownhill, Nagy and Massengo. I think maybe we should be playing 2 of the 3, rather than all of them.

The injuries recently to Kalas and Moore haven't helped either, with them out we were forced to go to 4 at the back really, because Wright just didn't fit into the 3.

Nic has to stay in the team for me though regardless.

[spudski]

24 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

For me Weimann was our worst player over the last 2 games, with the exception of Palmer who was diabolical when coming on against Millwall.

I have noticed Weimann does not show for the ball. As the number 10 type, and Famara being the number 9 type in the partnership, Weimann has to do more. He has to come off into midfield and offer himself a forward pass for our midfielders.

 He runs around a lot, but often makes runs out wide. He doesn't like the ball in tight spaces like Reid did. And his link up play with Fam is poor. He doesn't ever get close enough to Fam. It's a poor combination.

Fam is like most target men, he hasn't got fantastic movement. But his role is to occupy defenders. He does his job well imo. 

I would rather LJ either go with Weimann and someone like Watkins, which doesn't exactly get me excited, though they work better as a partnership. Or I would rather he play Diedhiou up top on his own in a 4231 and get runners with skill and pace playing off of him. Or even go 343 with Eliasson and maybe Brownhill floating behind Fam in a lone role.

I am not saying Fam is fantastic or that Weimann is rubbish. But as a partnership, when they are both right up top in a 442, they link up terribly.

People don't seem to mention Weimann having a poor game because of all his running. It's about time he started doing things on the ball in his position.

I agree...Weimann often runs down the channel into a dead end. And into spaces that can't receive a pass because it's behind a defender. No open angle. However...he does move. He drags defenders. Famara doesn't move into those spaces created. He is at fault up front.

Fam isn't even a target man. Look at all the stat sites. His over riding weakness on all, is given as ' can't hold a ball or loses possession'. Strength... Arial duals. No good when his positioning and movement is shite.

No point having runners off him, if he can't win a ball, keep it and pass it. His possession stats and passing accuracy stats are shocking. I don't even need them.. I ca see with my own eyes how bad he is at that role.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, spudski said:

I agree...Weimann often runs down the channel into a dead end. And into spaces that can't receive a pass because it's behind a defender. No open angle. However...he does move. He drags defenders. Famara doesn't move into those spaces created. He is at fault up front.

Fam isn't even a target man. Look at all the stat sites. His over riding weakness on all, is given as ' can't hold a ball or loses possession'. Strength... Arial duals. No good when his positioning and movement is shite.

No point having runners off him, if he can't win a ball, keep it and pass it. His possession stats and passing accuracy stats are shocking. I don't even need them.. I ca see with my own eyes how bad he is at that role.

His hold up play was fantastic in a few games recently. Certainly better at holding it up than Weimann who never seems to like receiving a ball with his back to goal with a player close to him. 

For me there are no other good alternatives at the moment to Diedhiou. If we had Afobe fit then fair enough but we don't.

[spudski]

15 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

His hold up play was fantastic in a few games recently. Certainly better at holding it up than Weimann who never seems to like receiving a ball with his back to goal with a player close to him. 

For me there are no other good alternatives at the moment to Diedhiou. If we had Afobe fit then fair enough but we don't.

I agree there are few alternatives at the moment. 

However our natural strengths in the team isn't to play with a holding striker or wingers.

If you look at the majority of our best players, they are more suited to high energy, pass and move, with fluidity.

Hence why Palmer suited Afobe and everyone else around him.

As I've stated before...since Afobe...we play like two teams trying to fit together. Our offence is like oil and water with the rest of the team.

We pass and move up to the final third...where it's static. Or goes wide hoping one player... Eliasson can cross to one player..Fam.

That isn't going to work consistently.

And that's what we are lacking...consistency.

We are no better than any team from 3rd to lower mid table. All pretty much the same...all inconsistent.

[Trueredsupporter]

If you look at the majority of our best players, they are more suited to high energy, pass and move, with fluidity.

@spudski Afobe was obviously a loan and I agree he brought more of the above out of the team. Famara doesn't and wont so what players out there would you bring in permanently??

[RedEyez]

We need Smith in the middle to win those 2nd balls. No one else does it better and we’re a much better team with him in it for this very reason. It allows us to build a platform for our “creative” players to attack and break the lines. 

Massengo needs another rest. We should go with Nagy and Smith in CM to navigate ourselves through what will be a difficult festive period. 

[robin_unreliant]

7 hours ago, spudski said:

I agree about the recycling of Palmer, Famara and Eliasson. The latter two imo don't compliment the rest of our squad.

In playing them it counters everything else that is good about our side.

Imo our strength is playing without Fam and Eliasson.

Below is a team that looks far more balanced and plays to our strengths rather than weaknesses. Hoping it happens sooner rather than later.

Obviously Afobe and Nketiah are dreams...but a player of that ilk to suit.

______________Bentley_______________

______Kalas___Williams___Moore_____

Hunt__________Nagy__________DaSilva

_____Brownhill______Hans/Palmer_____

________Weimann__Afobe/Nketiah_____

If you play that team against a physical opponent we will concede from set pieces. Apart from Kalas/Williams we have no tall players to defend corners and free kicks. I guess this is what LJ was moaning about the other day when he said we can't tick all the boxes.

Famara is very limited as a striker but pretty crucial to our defending. We have too many small lightweight midfielders. LJ can hardly complain as he's recruited all of them bar Korey.

Just proves there is no real plan, identity, whatever you want to call it. Our squad has cover everywhere bar strikers but it doesn't seem to have any real structure to it.