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The negativity


italian dave

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2 hours ago, Redtucks said:

....and if we were top 2 and threw away a 3 goal lead to those over the water, I wonder what the reaction would be.

:facepalm:

 

The same as any forum...Leeds perform more consistently than others, as do WBA... that's the difference.

2 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Why aren’t we though? What should BCFC do to become a top two side?

Keep building as we are.

The same question can be asked of the majority of teams in this division.

It's not long ago we were League 1 regulars and run like an amateur outfit.

We've come a long way in a very short time.

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1 hour ago, J-mat said:

Because every game is different. Because if the ball is going to be in your box a lot and a team plays a very high press sometimes the best way to attack that is to hit channels. 

Do you think Liverpool play out from the back? Or play long? Because they do both. 

I was asked what our identity was, and it's that. 

Because generally we look to build via the pivot, break lines and either attack through the middle (Weimann or Adobe) or via the wings (to cross to Diedhiou)

Dasilva injury has hurt us badly, as the attacking full backs on both sides would have given us more offensive balance. More overloads. Rowe has done a great job, but he's nowhere near as dynamic as we need him to be..

We are fine, we play perfectly fine football and we are in and around the playoffs in the most competitive division in the world.

 

This is literally the best we've known it at Ashton Gate in c.40 years. 

 

Boomers whinging about stuff seems to be a running societal thing, though. 

Liverpool identity is strident and obvious. Bristol City can hardly be comparable to Liverpool in terms of identity. Liverpool under Klopp will be playing with the same principles next month/season under Klopp while Bristol City looking at Mr Johnsons history will not. 

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2 hours ago, glen humphries said:

He got lucky with the sells of Bryan , Reid , kelly, don’t think he signed them then sold them on for a profit did he’ 

No, but he turned Bryan from an average championship lwb into a 6 million pound rated left back. 
 

He turned Reid from a league one quality centre midfielder into a 10 million pound striker. 
 

He brought Kelly into the first team and developed him into an 18 million pound left back, who’s been playing regularly for England u21s

 

To call that luck is farcical really 

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23 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Liverpool identity is strident and obvious. Bristol City can hardly be comparable to Bristol City in terms of identity. Liverpool under Klopp will be playing with the same principles next month/season under Klopp while Bristol City looking at Mr Johnsons history will not. 

This is clearly false, their identity and style has changed every season, the most notable after Buvac left before the CL final loss to Madrid. 

And I think you've misread or I've communicated badly. I haven't for one second compared city with Liverpool. I was merely pointing out that us playing direct against Cardiff doesn't mean we don't build from the back. 

 

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1 hour ago, cidered abroad said:

He has spent well, hasn't he.

Engvall, Adelakun, Eisa, Smodicz, plus loans like Kent, Diony, Woodrow, Rodri.

And if Palmer does not begin to show better than he has, I'll include him.

So 4 transfers that cost a grand total of circa 2.5 million (as well as a bit of compensation) and 4 loans, when you consider how much money he’s brought in from the signings he’s made that’s not bad going

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13 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Yeah, LJ is the only manager who's ever made a poor signing...

It's incredible that people are trying to seek out the very worst. Hey, let's ignore the fact he signed the likes of Brownhill, Dasilva, Kalas, Baker, Webster, etc. And blimey, wasn't he the one that unearthed Tammy? Sure there's been a few turkeys along the way, but even Alex Ferguson made some right howlers along the way (no, I'm comparing LJ to Fergie btw). Says so much for people on here that they slant in on the negative while conveniently overlooking the positives. Bewildering when you think about it. 

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2 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

So 4 transfers that cost a grand total of circa 2.5 million (as well as a bit of compensation) and 4 loans, when you consider how much money he’s brought in from the signings he’s made that’s not bad going

One of those four we got our money back on and two more are still at the club and may either come good or we sell on and not lose much if anything.

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1 minute ago, poland_exile said:

It's incredible that people are trying to seek out the very worst. Hey, let's ignore the fact he signed the likes of Brownhill, Dasilva, Kalas, Baker, Webster, etc. And blimey, wasn't he the one that unearthed Tammy? Sure there's been a few turkeys along the way, but even Alex Ferguson made some right howlers along the way (no, I'm comparing LJ to Fergie btw). Says so much for people on here that they slant in on the negative while conveniently overlooking the positives. Bewildering when you think about it. 

Unearthed Tammy do me a favour, most clubs in the league knew about Tammy, we done well to get him I’ll give you that, but to say lj unearthed him is bullshit 

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3 minutes ago, poland_exile said:

It's incredible that people are trying to seek out the very worst. Hey, let's ignore the fact he signed the likes of Brownhill, Dasilva, Kalas, Baker, Webster, etc. And blimey, wasn't he the one that unearthed Tammy? Sure there's been a few turkeys along the way, but even Alex Ferguson made some right howlers along the way (no, I'm comparing LJ to Fergie btw). Says so much for people on here that they slant in on the negative while conveniently overlooking the positives. Bewildering when you think about it. 

A few turkeys? Gieffer, engvall, hegelar djuric adelekan Magnússon diony Taylor Wright Watkins his transfer record is generally horrendous.

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6 minutes ago, Lez said:

A few turkeys? Gieffer, engvall, hegelar djuric adelekan Magnússon diony Taylor Wright Watkins his transfer record is generally horrendous.

  1. Could've been alright if not for formation and injury. Was pretty good technically.
  2. Had his uses- but injury really scuppered things.
  3. Thought he was alright- certainly wasn't terrible. International and playing for CSKA Moscow, is hardly indicative of a terrible played. 
  4. His assists played an important role in us staying up in 2016/17, backend of that season. For £300k I think he's been okay! Had injuries too?
  5. Did okay at RB during that great spell 2 years ago- more a case that he was suited to certain systems and is- or perhaps more accurately was- an alright squad player.

I think his record is and has been more hit and miss than terrible.

Adelukan (there's a 'u' in it) well looks a poor signing but we've done his development little favours either. He's had injuries too!

Polarisation means "good or bad", when actually the truth with a number of signings is perhaps neither- but somewhere between. Jury out on a fair few of his signings IMO.

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3 hours ago, Drew Peacock said:

I think part of the reaction is that we are given so much bullshit from the club about a premier side in waiting, premier facilities and so on, and so we expect to see the performances on the pitch meet this utopia being painted for us.

Yep. It’s this attitude that just doesn’t match up with what’s being served up on the pitch at home the vast majority of the time but one can’t pin that on LJ tbf, that’s more the ‘suits’ giving out those messages rather than him. 

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28 minutes ago, J-mat said:

This is clearly false, their identity and style has changed every season, the most notable after Buvac left before the CL final loss to Madrid. 

And I think you've misread or I've communicated badly. I haven't for one second compared city with Liverpool. I was merely pointing out that us playing direct against Cardiff doesn't mean we don't build from the back. 

 

Liverpool's identity has not changed every season. Mr Klopp set out his vision early and stated himself he would not be changing. The way the team plays in possession, out and transitions was fundamentally put in place during the first season as Mr Klopp states. Its been a linear progression where the playing principles do not change beyond being improved via bringing in players with better key skills to fulfil the teams needs. 

Bristol City build from the back inefficiently. Building from the back? Its a vague statement without specific detail. As posters may be implying teams that build from the back efficiently do not play as many long balls as Bristol City do. The long balls are a symptom of the teams less than fluid nature on the ball - Movement of recievers in the second and final thirds. 

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5 hours ago, redsquirrel said:

the moaning isn't about being as good as the teams you mention,its about showing some fight to preserve the position they have done well to achieve rather than just throwing it away with lacklustre displays

This absolutely nails it. It's not that we're losing games because other teams are better (or have more resources) than us. We're losing because we're playing well below our capabilities, and at times not even looking that bothered. That for me means we are underachieving. 

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4 hours ago, J-mat said:

Great post. 

The worst part about Ashton Gate isn't the football, which is absolutely fine. It's sitting down knowing you're going to have to over hear absolute garbage coming from the mouths of people with no grasp of tactics let alone coaching. 

Watch with headphones in now. Sooner listen to nails down a chalkboard on repeat for 2 hours than those drips

 

If you think that the football yesterday was fine then I think that you find that you are in the minority.

There was no real attempt or urgency to get back into the game when we conceded due to our players being mentally still in the dressing room. 
 

Our play was slow, we tried too many passes, especially across the back which only enables teams to get back into position behind the ball.

You would think at half time that the manager would have galvanised his players and motivated them enough to come out for the second half with a different mentality from the first half, but no, sideways passing and then knocking it across the back four continued as if we wanted to ‘burn some time’.

I often remember under Mr Johnson Snr coming out against teams and going 1 or 2 down. I can recall countless occasions where the players came back out for the 2nd half awake and transformed and we turned many of those games around. I don’t see the same ability in Mr Johnson Jr thus far.

Watching that yesterday was like watching paint dry. It wasn’t fine. It was poor, lazy and technically and tactically inept.

Blackburn could have been prized open if we had stepped up the pace, but we played right into their hands and failed to change our approach to the game. We faded with a whimper, we gave up trying to win the game and went through the motions until it was over.

The atmosphere faded with the lack of entertainment on the pitch because there was nothing positive to sing about. We were poor, Blackburn were poor and we gifted them 2 goals.

I looked at LJ as I left the ground and he was stood on the touchline looking completely devoid of ideas.

One idea would have been to step the play up (tempo) including better movement off the ball, and to at least attempt putting the white round thing into the net instead of trying to walk it in.

Passing and possession doesn’t win games, scoring more goals than your opponent wins games (it’s that simple), but my god when you are in possession and you want to play it around the back four make sure you don’t leave yourselves completely exposed if you make a mistake. Blackburn probably couldn’t believe how generous we were offering them 2 goals on a plate yesterday and they didn’t even have to work hard for those goals either....and that’s fine is it? It’s suicidal and unnecessary.

 

 

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5 hours ago, italian dave said:

...here on OTIB really is something else.

Six days ago we're joint third the the Championship, riding high on two impressive wins, and today all the familiar old mood hoovers are out in force, calling for Johnson's head, and apparently glorying in the fact that two defeats justifies their negativity. It really feels like they've been just been waiting and hoping....

We really would be the laughing stock of the football world if we sacked LJ now. He's consistently improved our league position every year, and is currently on course to do the same again this year. For anyone who says that the footballs not always great, think back to the times over the years when we've had spells of producing some great football and losing 2-3 every week, and how we were then told that it's results, points, league position that really count.

We switched formations four games ago and that same formation has gone from being evidence that the fans were right all along to evidence that LJ doesn't know how to set teams up. And I'm sure if he had changed the accusation wouldn't have been tinkering again!

To suggest that Johnson has 'taken us as far as he can' is frankly ludicrous, given the above. How can anyone know that? And the return of the personal abuse and name calling is just pathetic.

Football at this level is a game of fantastically fine margins. Fulham get that penalty and Mitrovic puts away one of those chances and we've lost that game. Weimann puts away that chance on Tuesday night, or Williams and Weimann/Fam put away two of the easiest chances we'll get all season yesterday, and both are different games.

Im not blind to our faults and problems. The last two were very disappointing. Tuesday just seemed to be one of those where every player bar probably Fam decide to have a bad night. We've changed approach and decided to use Eliasson (which everyone here was calling for) and it worked twice. Against Millwall and Blackburn it didn't. Millwall filled the box with 5 giants and won every high ball, Blackburn worked very hard at stopping him getting those crosses in. We didn't have a plan B.

But it happens. No-one is writing Fulham off after three straight defeats. And I'm certainly not writing us of the way some on here seem to be doing, and even enjoying doing in some cases. 

 

Very well said and good to read some sensible, well thought out content that has been severely lacking on here the last few days ??

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5 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

He has spent well, hasn't he.

Engvall, Adelakun, Eisa, Smodicz, plus loans like Kent, Diony, Woodrow, Rodri.

And if Palmer does not begin to show better than he has, I'll include him.

He spent well on Eisa.

But then didn't give him a chance.

Adelakun and Smodicz and Rodri haven't had much of a chance either. The little I have seen of Rodri actually impressed me. Palmer is a show pony and a waste of money if you ask me.

As much as I have had enough of Johnson to be honest, there is a whole recruitment team under Ashton identifying targets. Maybe they should do a little more research with regards to whether Johnson is likely to play them.

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4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:
  1. Could've been alright if not for formation and injury. Was pretty good technically.
  2. Had his uses- but injury really scuppered things.
  3. Thought he was alright- certainly wasn't terrible. International and playing for CSKA Moscow, is hardly indicative of a terrible played. 
  4. His assists played an important role in us staying up in 2016/17, backend of that season. For £300k I think he's been okay! Had injuries too?
  5. Did okay at RB during that great spell 2 years ago- more a case that he was suited to certain systems and is- or perhaps more accurately was- an alright squad player.

I think his record is and has been more hit and miss than terrible.

Adelukan (there's a 'u' in it) well looks a poor signing but we've done his development little favours either. He's had injuries too!

Polarisation means "good or bad", when actually the truth with a number of signings is perhaps neither- but somewhere between. Jury out on a fair few of his signings IMO.

The bloke at Coventry that s out of contract, plus the bloke from Liverpool that cost 300k for not playing. Eisa who got nothing and now tearing it up in League 1 etc.

But ths is not about LJ, its about MA and club policy. For the record we need Taylor upsetting people right now. Scomdics looks out of his depth and Rodri not making the bench

Flint Pack Bryan Kelly and Reid were never LJ buys/acquisitions , so what does that leave us with, Webster made us a shitload but our failure last season ensured he was off. Brownhill looks like he my be off sooner rather than later.

I want to give LJ credit but I am unclear whether he actually has earned that much...I guess SL is the judge of that!!

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2 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

The bloke at Coventry that s out of contract, plus the bloke from Liverpool that cost 300k for not playing. Eisa who got nothing and now tearing it up in League 1 etc.

But ths is not about LJ, its about MA and club policy. For the record we need Taylor upsetting people right now. Scomdics looks out of his depth and Rodri not making the bench

Flint Pack Bryan Kelly and Reid were never LJ buys/acquisitions , so what does that leave us with, Webster made us a shitload but our failure last season ensured he was off. Brownhill looks like he my be off sooner rather than later.

I want to give LJ credit but I am unclear whether he actually has earned that much...I guess SL is the judge of that!!

Walsh? Don't think he had a proper chance.

Eisa? Certainly didn't get one!

How LJ often likes to setup the team, plus all the chopping and changing didn't m always help a fair few of the players he's had IMO.

When I look at a decent number of our signings under him plus varied other players he inherited, I see players suited to a 4-3-3 quite often. LJ doesn't tend to agree.

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We lack pace, strength and movement in our play, plus our finishing, when we do make a chance, is poor. We are also conceding far too many goals, despite the excellence of Bentley. Apart from that everything is “fine”. Except of course the lack of entertainment for home fans at AG, which many on here have already frustratedly highlighted. Yes we are 7th at the moment, but given our current form, we will be bottom half by 5pm on 1st January.

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Two inept performances but that doesn't make us a bad side. Only W Brom, Leeds and Brentford have picked up more points than Millwall and Blackburn over the last 10 games so they were two in form teams. Sheff Wed will be equally tough but our away record is phenomenal so we have every chance of getting something from the game and going on another run. Keep the Faith !!

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16 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

I’m not sure the football world cares that much about us - but was Southampton FC a ‘laughing stock’ when they sacked Adkins after he had taken them from league one to the premier league with back to back promotions? And when he got the Saints promoted from the championship they remained in the top two for the entire season. He was the first Southampton manager ever to achieve successive promotions but four months after taking them up into the premier league he was sacked. Not sure many thought they were a laughing stock when Pochettino replaced him.... and WBA haven’t struggled since sacking Darren Moore when they were 4th in the championship - and the reason for his sacking? Poor home results ... just as players are only suited to certain levels of football, so are managers - in my opinion, we wouldn’t be seen as a laughing stock if LJ went, if anyone outside our fan base cared, we’d be seen as ambitious - in the same way Southampton and WBA were ....

Many people thought the sacking of Adkins was unfair at the time, so that's not a good example at all.

 

The fact Pochettino replaced him and did well is all then hindsight. AT THE MOMENT OF ADKINS BEING SACKED it was seen as extremely harsh

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/southampton/9811368/Nigel-Adkinss-dismissal-at-Southampton-could-be-the-harshest-sacking-in-Premier-League-history.html

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/jan/19/southampton-sacking-nigel-adkins-folly

https://readsouthampton.com/2019/12/11/lambert-admits-he-was-fuming-when-adkins-was-sacked/

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1491188-nigel-adkins-shockingly-sacked-as-southampton-manager

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/372152/Southampton-legend-Matt-Le-Tissier-attacks-Nigel-Adkins-sacking

 

WBA were 4th when Moore was sacked and finished the season 4th. They are top now but there has been another transfer window since, so we could only speculate how things would have gone had Moore not been sacked.

 

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1 hour ago, Badger08 said:

I couldn't like this post anymore.  This forum is shocking when it comes to negativity.  I don't even both coming on after a loss, its like some posters revel in having a moan. 
We are making steady progress under the current set-up.  We've had a little blip, thats it.  Why do our supports go into absolute meltdown when we lose? Its so cringeworthy.  Do some people honestly believe we have the right to be above where we are currently sat in the table? 

We are progressing.  Yes sometimes its frustrating, and maybe LJ's success is his downfall as he himself has set an expectation, but maybe if our supporter put as much effort into singing and getting behind the team as we do moaning, maybe we might actually kick on. 

January is going to be a vital period for us as a club, but lets not all give up hope.  There is a reason we are called the 12th man.  

I think the negativity stems from our home form over the past 4 seasons with LJ in charge. 2016/17 11 wins, 2017/18 11, 2018/19 8, 2019/20 4 from 11.

Most fans only watch us at Ashton Gate and have endured thin gruel for 3.5 campaigns.

However, I'm of the opinion that we can still make the play-offs, as long as LJ accepts that playing a 3-man central midfield, 1 hard-tackling general alongside Massengo and Nagy, or Nagy and ano is the answer.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

I think the negativity stems from our home form over the past 4 seasons with LJ in charge. 2016/17 11 wins, 2017/18 11, 2018/19 8, 2019/20 4 from 11.

Most fans only watch us at Ashton Gate and have endured thin gruel for 3.5 campaigns.

However, I'm of the opinion that we can still make the play-offs, as long as LJ accepts that playing a 3-man central midfield, 1 hard-tackling general alongside Massengo and Nagy, or Nagy and ano is the answer.

 

 

Don't think the home form or record was that bad until this and last season.

We had a bad spell regardless of venue in 2016/17- a very bad, long spell actually- but 11 wins in 23 isn't too bad considering. Few more draws instead of narrow losses and it's acceptable. 2017/18, AG was a hard venue- we won a few, scored some goals- again one or two games we drew when we really should've won.

Think it's become an issue last and this season tbh.

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34 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

I get that, and I can see how it can be frustrating.  We are VERY reactive as a fanbase though.  I think sometimes we need to take a step backwards and have a really hard look at what we've achieved. 

To be fair though, I think the bi-polar reaction on this forum is reflective of City's Jekyll and Hyde form. 

One minute we've found our identity and beating Fulham, next thing you know we're a mess and losing to Millwall at home.

It's driving me crazy, I tell you...

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6 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

Many people thought the sacking of Adkins was unfair at the time, so that's not a good example at all.

 

The fact Pochettino replaced him and did well is all then hindsight. AT THE MOMENT OF ADKINS BEING SACKED it was seen as extremely harsh

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/southampton/9811368/Nigel-Adkinss-dismissal-at-Southampton-could-be-the-harshest-sacking-in-Premier-League-history.html

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/jan/19/southampton-sacking-nigel-adkins-folly

https://readsouthampton.com/2019/12/11/lambert-admits-he-was-fuming-when-adkins-was-sacked/

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1491188-nigel-adkins-shockingly-sacked-as-southampton-manager

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/372152/Southampton-legend-Matt-Le-Tissier-attacks-Nigel-Adkins-sacking

 

WBA were 4th when Moore was sacked and finished the season 4th. They are top now but there has been another transfer window since, so we could only speculate how things would have gone had Moore not been sacked.

 

Wow, pretty extensive research there James - top work. I’m still not sure either Saints or Baggies were the laughing stock of the football world when they fired Adkins and Moore any more than we would be if LJ got the push - that was my point 

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