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the Weiman thing


where's the joy

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Ok so Bobby left and Weiman came in; it looked like a direct 'run about a bit' replacement.

The difference was that Bobby had a first touch and some turns and could make Fammy look good.

Weiman has none of these qualities. He chases lost causes, has a 'Toblerone boot' touch and cannot hold the ball up.

Currently we don't have a midfielder able to play him in nor a manager able to train the team how to get the best out of him.

I now long for the days when Cotterill didn't fill his bench with spare 'clubs', built a tempo and belief into a settled team

and crucially believed all his defensive problems could be solved by buying a quicksilver striker.

Which is precisely the place we are in now, needing to spend proper money on a 'top talent' striker

we have wasted all this time on Streaky Johnson and us fans have given him an easy ride.

Its time for him to shape up or ship out and replace Weiman

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I don’t think we have ‘wasted our time’ with Johnson at all. He has given me the best times of my life as a City fan. While Weimann can be inconsistent I do feel that the increasingly negative sentiment towards Johnson is a bit unnecessary and reactive. 

Ultimately we have improved year on year. Barring a flash in the pan eleven years ago we have been a total embarrassment in this division until he was appointed. I feel this is forgotten somewhat when people turn on LJ after a couple of bad results, and I say this as someone that couldn’t wait to see the back of him during the losing streak.

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20 minutes ago, where's the joy said:

Ok so Bobby left and Weiman came in; it looked like a direct 'run about a bit' replacement.

The difference was that Bobby had a first touch and some turns and could make Fammy look good.

Weiman has none of these qualities. He chases lost causes, has a 'Toblerone boot' touch and cannot hold the ball up.

Currently we don't have a midfielder able to play him in nor a manager able to train the team how to get the best out of him.

I now long for the days when Cotterill didn't fill his bench with spare 'clubs', built a tempo and belief into a settled team

and crucially believed all his defensive problems could be solved by buying a quicksilver striker.

Which is precisely the place we are in now, needing to spend proper money on a 'top talent' striker

we have wasted all this time on Streaky Johnson and us fans have given him an easy ride.

Its time for him to shape up or ship out and replace Weiman

He’s our top goal scorer and you want us to get rid of him? 

he’s been poor last few games he needs a rest but he does the running of famera most games and chips in with goals aswell 

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6 minutes ago, Highguy said:

He’s our top goal scorer and you want us to get rid of him? 

he’s been poor last few games he needs a rest but he does the running of famera most games and chips in with goals aswell 

Goal scoring record is poor where ever he has been

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24 minutes ago, where's the joy said:

we have wasted all this time on Streaky Johnson and us fans have given him an easy ride.

An easy ride? ? You're on the wind up pal.

Some fans have been on Lee Johnson's back since the day he arrived. Some don't like that he's supposedly a friend of the Lansdowns, some don't like that he's Gary's son, some don't like him because they criminally underrated him as a player for us and somehow think that is relevant to his role as a manager.

The year on year finishing position improvement, the amazing cup run, the development of players, all this is ignored by many who had an arbitrary, deep-seated dislike for the man from the very start.

Whatever you think of him, he absolutely has not been given an easy ride.

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31 minutes ago, Newquay-Red said:

I do feel that the increasingly negative sentiment towards Johnson is a bit unnecessary and reactive.

There's a certain subsection of the posters on here that have been waiting all season for us to lose a couple of games on the bounce, and now that we have they are back with their anti-Johnson agenda.

Why they exist I don't know, but they do. They will all crawl back into their holes when we go a couple of games unbeaten again.

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58 minutes ago, where's the joy said:

Ok so Bobby left and Weiman came in; it looked like a direct 'run about a bit' replacement.

The difference was that Bobby had a first touch and some turns and could make Fammy look good.

Weiman has none of these qualities. He chases lost causes, has a 'Toblerone boot' touch and cannot hold the ball up.

 

Been doing this his entire career.

100% effort ...... very limited ability

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Weimann is a 1/3 goalscorer at best. But if you add his assists he's a 1/2 man for average goal contribution.

Based on minutes played, Diedhiou still isn't a mile off from 1/2 which is mad really. 

Afobe still has the best rate of contribution though...

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Weimann isnt a goal scoring striker.....he works hard makes good runs and brings others into play.....works well away from home but not at the gate when teams sit in.

In terms of promotion and top championship teams I dont think he is at that level especially for home fixtures when you need that fox in the box.

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1 hour ago, Coxy27 said:

An easy ride? ? You're on the wind up pal.

Some fans have been on Lee Johnson's back since the day he arrived. Some don't like that he's supposedly a friend of the Lansdowns, some don't like that he's Gary's son, some don't like him because they criminally underrated him as a player for us and somehow think that is relevant to his role as a manager.

The year on year finishing position improvement, the amazing cup run, the development of players, all this is ignored by many who had an arbitrary, deep-seated dislike for the man from the very start.

Whatever you think of him, he absolutely has not been given an easy ride.

I took a while to warm to LJ....I had no “previous” with him because I’d only seen him play 40-odd minutes v Watford in the play-off season.

But we are 7th, level on points with 6th, two points behind 3rd....albeit having “wasted” two home games.  It’s a good position to be in, but it’s introduced panic from some fans, because it could’ve been so much better.

The players have dipped in form, not just the odd one, but 3,4,5....we are a team that relies of the sum of its parts.  LJ is doing a good job, it’s a tough league.  In his head he probably thinks he is a bit better than he actually is, but he’s still good head-coach, doing a good job.

The one thing I think this recent run (since Huddersfield) is that there is no magic formation / system.  We’ve played well v Huddersfield and Fulham, yet poorly v Millwall and Blackburn (I watched about 30 minutes on a stream), with the same method.

What does seem material in that 4 game mini-run is that we can play against the technical sides, but struggle against the more physical sides (inc Leeds and Luton too, who pressed us physically, West Brom were just too good on the night).

We miss that physicality in the middle of the park at times.  Blackburn and Millwall we missed a Rennie, a Newman-type CM.  We don’t have one.

So I don’t think chopping and changing the system is the answer.  Get the best eleven players out there in a system, and then rotate around fatigue and form.

Luton aside, I think we’ve looked stronger with a back 3 and wingbacks, we seem more compact too, less likely to be caught in transition too, which in turn becomes knackering.

 

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5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I took a while to warm to LJ....I had no “previous” with him because I’d only seen him play 40-odd minutes v Watford in the play-off season.

But we are 7th, level on points with 6th, two points behind 3rd....albeit having “wasted” two home games.  It’s a good position to be in, but it’s introduced panic from some fans, because it could’ve been so much better.

The players have dipped in form, not just the odd one, but 3,4,5....we are a team that relies of the sum of its parts.  LJ is doing a good job, it’s a tough league.  In his head he probably thinks he is a bit better than he actually is, but he’s still good head-coach, doing a good job.

The one thing I think this recent run (since Huddersfield) is that there is no magic formation / system.  We’ve played well v Huddersfield and Fulham, yet poorly v Millwall and Blackburn (I watched about 30 minutes on a stream), with the same method.

What does seem material in that 4 game mini-run is that we can play against the technical sides, but struggle against the more physical sides (inc Leeds and Luton too, who pressed us physically, West Brom were just too good on the night).

We miss that physicality in the middle of the park at times.  Blackburn and Millwall we missed a Rennie, a Newman-type CM.  We don’t have one.

So I don’t think chopping and changing the system is the answer.  Get the best eleven players out there in a system, and then rotate around fatigue and form.

Luton aside, I think we’ve looked stronger with a back 3 and wingbacks, we seem more compact too, less likely to be caught in transition too, which in turn becomes knackering.

 

Often agree with your posts Dave, but wonder about this bit.

Given their possession, physical first and foremost? They bossed us with and without the ball first half especially- high energy but they're clearly quite technical- teams that average nearly 60% possession tend to be!

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7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Often agree with your posts Dave, but wonder about this bit.

Given their possession, physical first and foremost? They bossed us with and without the ball first half especially- high energy but they're clearly quite technical- teams that average nearly 60% possession tend to be!

I did say, “pressed us physically”, didn’t say they were just a physical team.  They were on us so quickly and then physical with their challenges.  Don’t get me wrong they are good technically, but they aren’t just a good technical team, they are strong too.  Even Bamford, who used to be a lightweight, pushes his CB markers around this season.

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What I get miffed about is this ‘ playing it out from the back ‘ bit .

 I understand that it is to keep possession but for Bob’s sake why have creative midfielders if our main playmakers are the centre backs ? 
 

We no longer have Webster , Taylor Moore is the nearest in style so why persist  with the idea ?

Bentley gives to Ash or ‘ Nononsense   Nathan ‘ and they seem to just pass it to each other or hit it long to Famaral ,who mostly gets swarmed over , or where they imagine wandering Weiman will be .

This is down to coaching .

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

What I get miffed about is this ‘ playing it out from the back ‘ bit .

 I understand that it is to keep possession but for Bob’s sake why have creative midfielders if our main playmakers are the centre backs ? 
 

We no longer have Webster , Taylor Moore is the nearest in style so why persist  with the idea ?

Bentley gives to Ash or ‘ Nononsense   Nathan ‘ and they seem to just pass it to each other or hit it long to Famaral ,who mostly gets swarmed over , or where they imagine wandering Weiman will be .

This is down to coaching .

 

 

Think Kalas is not bad technically either, but more conservative. As a pair though, or an axis, then Bentley-Kalas-Moore-Nagy could set things moving quite well- when all fit of course.

Certainly centre backs shouldn't be the main playmakers- that's only one part of the process. I question whether LJ can move properly towards the end goal that he seems to want, in terms of playing out.

Don't have a diagram or triangle or graphic thing handy bit I'd see it as...

Bentley

Either to Kalas, for the simpler pass- or Moore for the mix of simpler pass and bringing it up the pitch.

Perhaps draw the opposition out somewhat- Nagy could receive from one of these two- or to mix it and keep the opposition guessing at times, a medium range from Bentley to Nagy. The more players you have who are comfortable on the ball, be it simpler passing or be it bringing it forward- ie the Kalas v Moore in this current side, the harder it is for the opposition to negate, to shut down.

Nagy moving it onto Brownhill, Eliasson or Massengo even dependent on circs.  Palmer then into Weimann, and some of these can support- Hunt a strong outlet, but especially DaSilva- in turn can create space.

That's just one set of combinations anyway- there will be many more!

We have the many of the ingredients now or will when all fit- but Webster a key loss- the question is whether LJ can make the best cake out of it. Jury out a bit for me.

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Absolutely agree with Dave's post above and I have been saying it all along. 352 / 532 is our best most solid formation. 442 leaves us too exposed in midfield and offers little protection to the back 4. With this system we also have the ability to change the game by using Eliason as an impact sub. Stick to this system using round pegs in round holes and it is easy to keep refreshing / rotating players.

Bently

Hunt or Pereira   Williams, Baker, Moore, Rowe or Dasilva

     Nagy, Massengo,Smith (2 from3)

                Brownhill or Palmer

             Weiman / Dhiedou

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Bit disappointed really, the thread title made me think this was going to be some kind of film review for a new thriller like The Ipcress File or Day Of The Jackel etc... Not what I was thinking to be honest, not into fantasy football manager type movies. 

The Weiman Thing sounds like a great book which I'm sure would have made a decent cold sore thriller … shame, wonder who the leading man and rest of the cast of characters would have been?

Surely a role in it somewhere for villainous a Warnock and a Holloway somewhere, but who'd play the good guys?

Job for Cotts perhaps?  

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1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

Absolutely agree with Dave's post above and I have been saying it all along. 352 / 532 is our best most solid formation. 442 leaves us too exposed in midfield and offers little protection to the back 4. With this system we also have the ability to change the game by using Eliason as an impact sub. Stick to this system using round pegs in round holes and it is easy to keep refreshing / rotating players.

Bently

Hunt or Pereira   Williams, Baker, Moore, Rowe or Dasilva

     Nagy, Massengo,Smith (2 from3)

                Brownhill or Palmer

             Weiman / Dhiedou

I'm still puzzling if any of it makes any difference....v Blackburn nobody,,literally nobody picked up the runner,/ free man on the edge of the box - Sunday league stuff - even Sunday league outfits would be mightily pissed off about it...talk about basic & it puts you one down from the kick off??.....f all to do with freshness or tactics... attitude.

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9 minutes ago, Robert the bruce said:

I'm still puzzling if any of it makes any difference....v Blackburn nobody,,literally nobody picked up the runner,/ free man on the edge of the box - Sunday league stuff - even Sunday league outfits would be mightily pissed off about it...talk about basic & it puts you one down from the kick off??.....f all to do with freshness or tactics... attitude.

But we may not have conceded a sloppy corner in the first place.

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29 minutes ago, Bernard Lerring said:

I think the main concern about weimann is not whether he's actually any good or not (he is), it's why the rest of the squad have not yet been trained to spot his runs 

This- very much this!

It's funny as I thought that on paper Palmer pushed high and close to Weimann, in a fairly free role could have been the one to do this but not so much to date.

If we could pick the early runs in good time then I think Weimann up there as not quite lone striker but especially the main presence could be the way.

One way to go might be the right back line and yes good possession, if Nagy can move it on to Brownhill and Eliasson, there is ample creativity yet control to pick these runs. Or should be!

OTOH, once in a while, Bentley bypasses defence a bit with the quick pass to Nagy and bypass one of the thirds. Weimann's runs can help to keep defence occupied, quick distribution to Nagy stops them filtering back in....

I think there are some real exciting combinations there and the movement of Weimann plays its part. Disappointed we haven't seen it enough tbh.

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10 hours ago, where's the joy said:

Ok so Bobby left and Weiman came in; it looked like a direct 'run about a bit' replacement.

The difference was that Bobby had a first touch and some turns and could make Fammy look good.

Weiman has none of these qualities. He chases lost causes, has a 'Toblerone boot' touch and cannot hold the ball up.

Currently we don't have a midfielder able to play him in nor a manager able to train the team how to get the best out of him.

I now long for the days when Cotterill didn't fill his bench with spare 'clubs', built a tempo and belief into a settled team

and crucially believed all his defensive problems could be solved by buying a quicksilver striker.

Which is precisely the place we are in now, needing to spend proper money on a 'top talent' striker

we have wasted all this time on Streaky Johnson and us fans have given him an easy ride.

Its time for him to shape up or ship out and replace Weiman

Best player we’ve got ... and to answer your point that we ‘don’t have a midfielder able to play him in ...’ - we do, he’s called Kasey Palmer ... oh, and Weimann has played 113 premier league games compared to Bobby Reid’s 27 games at the top level. Weimann is a very intelligent football player who makes incisive runs that many players can’t read - to suggest Reid is a better player, having had just one fine season in his whole career (and he’s now 26 years old), is ridiculous .... Weimann played in the premier league for five consecutive seasons .... and you could even do him the courtesy of spelling his name correctly 

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11 hours ago, where's the joy said:

Ok so Bobby left and Weiman came in; it looked like a direct 'run about a bit' replacement.

The difference was that Bobby had a first touch and some turns and could make Fammy look good.

Weiman has none of these qualities. He chases lost causes, has a 'Toblerone boot' touch and cannot hold the ball up.

Currently we don't have a midfielder able to play him in nor a manager able to train the team how to get the best out of him.

I now long for the days when Cotterill didn't fill his bench with spare 'clubs', built a tempo and belief into a settled team

and crucially believed all his defensive problems could be solved by buying a quicksilver striker.

Which is precisely the place we are in now, needing to spend proper money on a 'top talent' striker

we have wasted all this time on Streaky Johnson and us fans have given him an easy ride.

Its time for him to shape up or ship out and replace Weiman

I'll probably get a mark against me, but you sir are a cock of the highest order. **** off, and when you get somewhere, **** off again. Pr1ck. 

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11 hours ago, where's the joy said:

Ok so Bobby left and Weiman came in; it looked like a direct 'run about a bit' replacement.

The difference was that Bobby had a first touch and some turns and could make Fammy look good.

Weiman has none of these qualities. He chases lost causes, has a 'Toblerone boot' touch and cannot hold the ball up.

Currently we don't have a midfielder able to play him in nor a manager able to train the team how to get the best out of him.

I now long for the days when Cotterill didn't fill his bench with spare 'clubs', built a tempo and belief into a settled team

and crucially believed all his defensive problems could be solved by buying a quicksilver striker.

Which is precisely the place we are in now, needing to spend proper money on a 'top talent' striker

we have wasted all this time on Streaky Johnson and us fans have given him an easy ride.

Its time for him to shape up or ship out and replace Weiman

Clueless, charlie uniform november tango. 

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11 hours ago, Newquay-Red said:

Barring a flash in the pan eleven years ago we have been a total embarrassment in this division until he was appointed...

You are obviously a young un - but we haven’t been a ‘total embarrassment’ in this division until LJ was appointed, in four consecutive seasons in the ‘90s we finished 9th, 14th, 15th, 13th in this division - that is far, far from being a ‘total embarrassment’ and in five consecutive seasons in the ‘70s we finished 8th, 5th, 16th, 5th, 2nd in this division .... you really think that’s embarrassing?! Or do you think football only started after 1992 ?!

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31 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

You are obviously a young un - but we haven’t been a ‘total embarrassment’ in this division until LJ was appointed, in four consecutive seasons in the ‘90s we finished 9th, 14th, 15th, 13th in this division - that is far, far from being a ‘total embarrassment’ and in five consecutive seasons in the ‘70s we finished 8th, 5th, 16th, 5th, 2nd in this division .... you really think that’s embarrassing?! Or do you think football only started after 1992 ?!

'In my day we could watch City for half a crown, still buy a bovril, and yet still would have change for the horse-bus home. 

'My great uncle once saw an FA Cup final and us reach 2nd place, and you know what, it was only a century ago!'

Exaggerated point by me, but how long is a piece of string. Correct time frame to judge, game changes etc- how far is a sensible comparison basically?

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1 hour ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

You are obviously a young un - but we haven’t been a ‘total embarrassment’ in this division until LJ was appointed, in four consecutive seasons in the ‘90s we finished 9th, 14th, 15th, 13th in this division - that is far, far from being a ‘total embarrassment’ and in five consecutive seasons in the ‘70s we finished 8th, 5th, 16th, 5th, 2nd in this division .... you really think that’s embarrassing?! Or do you think football only started after 1992 ?!

Oooh, 9th, 14th, 15th and 13th twenty years ago. What an iconic time. Maybe we should get some banners put up around the Gate? Other clubs would be fiercely envious I’m sure. 

The 70s were a long time ago whether you like it or not and saying ‘well we were good 40 years ago’; that’s embarrassing. Barring that time, we have historically underachieved. I always find it funny when older fans on here gatekeep that time. Well done; you were born in a different era and were fortunate that us being in the first division occurred at that time. What a fantastic personal achievement! You should definitely make us all aware of that on a regular basis...

Plus the whole tired ‘hurr durr do you think football started in 1992’ attitude is totally moronic considering you’re saying it to a fellow fan of this club. Not exactly Premier League glory hunting around here is it mate? 

You’ve formed that condescending attitude of yours solely due to your age and definitely not wisdom. We are on an upward trajectory over the past couple of years and it’s funny how on here that’s becoming a controversial opinion after two- yes only TWO- losses.

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