Antoine Semenyo

[Robbored]

23 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Ummmm...We have plenty of home grown players. Semenyo is the last one who should be warming the bench. 

Who are these ‘plenty’ of home grown players?

[Riaz]

I'd give him another go, before january.

[Robbored]

9 minutes ago, Riaz said:

I'd give him another go, before january.

If LJ thought that AS had reached Championship quality then he’d have given him some substitution time. 

[Son of Fred]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

LJ has said that a couple of L1 clubs are interested in taking him.

If that's the case then we must take the opportunity......we also need someone 'homegrown in Jan on the bench that at least has some value to being there for all concerned - very likely a striker,,maybe two will be incoming so I see Morrell filling that role,,also some rotation in midfield for tired legs/minds.

As to whom warms the bench when Morrell starts is another question...DaveFevs may have a plan!

 

[Riaz]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

If LJ thought that AS had reached Championship quality then he’d have given him some substitution time. 

Well he started him didnt he? earlier in the season

Young players blow hot and cold... Give him a chance before january, as most players are playing badly.... cant do any worse can he.

If he fails to perform again - loan him out to league one in january.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, RedDave said:

 

Doing well on loan and gaining some much needed experience and we pull him back and give him about 300 minutes in nearly a year 

This kid didn’t come through an academy really the same way most do so it’s even more important he gets proper game time.  In my opinion he’s the last home grown player we should have on the bench to fill a quota. 

He has missed out on 30 odd games now. Really poor from the club I reckon and that’s coming from me a happy clapper!  

...and to some extent he proved he can play men’s football in that spell at Newport, both physically and technically.  That’s one of the reasons for sending them out.  Very few people were moaning when he came on as sub at Preston and showed he was good enough to be around the first team squad.

1 hour ago, IAmNick said:

I thought the fact he had missed out on a lot was the very reason Johnson wanted him spending time with the first team here, as well at the higher level of coaching compared to on loan?

I may have imagined that though (or it was forum hearsay).

...I think there is a strong argument for exactly that.  I feel we wasted that opportunity with Freddie Hinds, and for a player like Semenyo who hasn’t come through the typical academy development system, perhaps Lee wanted him to benefit from being around better players.

1 hour ago, Simon bristol said:

Morrell or oleary could have taken that spot

O’Leary wouldn’t have developed playing wise had he stayed here behind Bentley.  He’d have been waiting for an injury.

Re Morrell, he’s a few years further on, and needed gametime, having had a loan sacrificed last season because of Korey’s injury in August, and the failure to get Hourihane (what a recruit that could’ve been).  So do you sacrifice him again this season?  I’m glad we didn’t.  Now in Wales squad, adding zero’s to his value too, that’s another angle.

Maybe it was Semenyo’s “turn”, maybe it was for half a season, with the plan to then bring someone like Vyner back for the second half.

Imho, Antoine had a decent enough game at Preston this season, did ok at Brentford, but was then poor after that.  There are a few far more senior players than him with less minutes!

[jj77]

14 hours ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Wouldn't make any difference. EFL rules require one home grown player in the squad.

Just put a youth team player on the bench. Problem solved and they get experience of a first team matchday and a bonus.

[Son of Fred]

16 minutes ago, jj77 said:

Just put a youth team player on the bench. Problem solved and they get experience of a first team matchday and a bonus.

Maybe Louis Brittan might occasionally get a bite at the bench cherry ....not sure though if he's been with us long enough to count as 'home grown???

[JoeAman08]

Vyner is a good option to bring back with his new experience in midfield. I’d still recall Morrell. Midfield isn’t that crowded if Brownhill is playing on the right. Just means Korey misses out but like has been said his contract is up in a few months. Morrell will and should be with us next season so may as well reintegrate him back into the squad early. It isn’t as if Nagy and Massengo can start the next 23 league games in a row without getting tired and losing form. Think the last couple games have shown the need rotated as good as they are at times. 

[BRISTOL86]

1 hour ago, RedDave said:

I would imagine LJ would start Kalas up front before Semenyo!  Youngsters improve with minutes.  I can’t remember a youngster who has stopped from playing for ages and then, when given a chance, had improved a lot due to his training programme.

Mis-managed for me

Well that’s obvious nonsense isn’t it? 

Hindsight is 20/20 and it’s easy to criticise from the armchair - less easy to make the right decision with so many moving variables

On paper AS was probably the closest of our home grown players to the first team, ability wise so was the prime candidate to be here and available to be used if we needed him. 

Who’s development would you have ‘halted’ so that AS could go out?

[Robbored]

11 minutes ago, jj77 said:

Just put a youth team player on the bench. Problem solved and they get experience of a first team matchday and a bonus.

Nonsense! 

Every manger at all levels will tell you that he needs options on the bench and if you have a youth team player sat there that is one option less.............

[Roe]

12 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Well that’s obvious nonsense isn’t it? 

I'm honestly not sure it is.  After the Blackburn game LJ said that he didn't have a striker on the bench to bring on before quickly correcting himself and adding "well, apart from young Antoine".  And he did similar before putting Flint up front ahead of players like Engvall and Garita.

[BRISTOL86]

6 minutes ago, Roe said:

I'm honestly not sure it is.  After the Blackburn game LJ said that he didn't have a striker on the bench to bring on before quickly correcting himself and adding "well, apart from young Antoine".  And he did similar before putting Flint up front ahead of players like Engvall and Garita.

I think it’s obvious that Johnson doesn’t think Semenyo is ready for a team who’s supporters are demanding top six and seeing anything less as failure. And I can’t disagree from what I’ve seen. 

But on the flip side the rules around home grown players are what they are and to me it makes sense to have the player who is closest to being at that level and I think it’s not unreasonable that AS was identified as that player. Otherwise it’s just a wasted place. 

Next year I’m guessing it may be Morrel or Max with Semenyo out on loan, but the rule around HG players is always going to mean we have to have one in a state of ‘arrested development’. 

As I say, easy to just say ‘mismanaged’ but not an easy situation to manage and one that will always leave someone frustrated. 

[Roe]

1 minute ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I think it’s obvious that Johnson doesn’t think Semenyo is ready for a team who’s supporters are demanding top six and seeing anything less as failure. And I can’t disagree from what I’ve seen. 

But on the flip side the rules around home grown players are what they are and to me it makes sense to have the player who is closest to being at that level and I think it’s not unreasonable that AS was identified as that player. Otherwise it’s just a wasted place. 

Next year I’m guessing it may be Morrel or Max with Semenyo out on loan, but the rule around HG players is always going to mean we have to have one in a state of ‘arrested development’. 

As I say, easy to just say ‘mismanaged’ but not an easy situation to manage and one that will always leave someone frustrated. 

The whole situation is just weird though.

Not too long ago Semenyo was getting picked to start ahead of Diedhiou.  Now he can't even get on the pitch.  I feel like LJ has burnt him out already and used him in completely the wrong way this season (and last season where the two games he started were 2 of the toughest games of the season in Leeds and Derby).

I also don't get how we've somehow thrown all our eggs in one basket with Semenyo being the only "first team" home grown player we've got to choose from atm.  I understand the need to develop all the young players we have and get them minutes, but it seems odd that none of them are trusted to progress here.

[BRISTOL86]

5 minutes ago, Roe said:

The whole situation is just weird though.

Not too long ago Semenyo was getting picked to start ahead of Diedhiou.  Now he can't even get on the pitch.  I feel like LJ has burnt him out already and used him in completely the wrong way this season (and last season where the two games he started were 2 of the toughest games of the season in Leeds and Derby).

I also don't get how we've somehow thrown all our eggs in one basket with Semenyo being the only "first team" home grown player we've got to choose from atm.  I understand the need to develop all the young players we have and get them minutes, but it seems odd that none of them are trusted to progress here.

That’s the thing though, on the one hand people are moaning because he’s not getting game time and on the other hand people are saying we shouldn’t have all our eggs in one basket...which naturally means they’re not getting games unless they’re good enough for first XI here which would be some feat by a young player with limited experience. They’d have to be fairly exceptional. 

If we were a team who were happy to bumble along in mid table and develop our own players without sending them on loan then fine.

But we have supporters calling for the manager to be sacked when we’re three points off third. 

So how do you balance the progression of those youngsters with those unrealistic expectations and keep everyone happy whilst also fulfilling the home grown rule? Very difficult indeed. 

Hence I take issue to the lazy comment of ‘mismanaged’ as if it’s a crystal clear issue. 

I think Johnson is also the type of character who is very quick to make a decision on a player and it then takes a lot to turn it around. 

[Davefevs]

29 minutes ago, Robert the bruce said:

Maybe Louis Brittan might occasionally get a bite at the bench cherry ....not sure though if he's been with us long enough to count as 'home grown???

Nope, next season he will though....but so will Han-Noah too

4 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I think it’s obvious that Johnson doesn’t think Semenyo is ready for a team who’s supporters are demanding top six and seeing anything less as failure. And I can’t disagree from what I’ve seen. 

But on the flip side the rules around home grown players are what they are and to me it makes sense to have the player who is closest to being at that level and I think it’s not unreasonable that AS was identified as that player. Otherwise it’s just a wasted place. 

Next year I’m guessing it may be Morrel or Max with Semenyo out on loan, but the rule around HG players is always going to mean we have to have one in a state of ‘arrested development’. 

As I say, easy to just say ‘mismanaged’ but not an easy situation to manage and one that will always leave someone frustrated. 

Last year we were “spoiled” by having Max and Lloyd.  Max could’ve spent a wasted season on the bench, but luckily (for him) injuries to Frankie and Niki meant he got circa 10 games.  Lloyd was a no-brainer, as he was a rightful starter (until Jay’s emergence), and could cover LCB too.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, BRISTOL86 said:

That’s the thing though, on the one hand people are moaning because he’s not getting game time and on the other hand people are saying we shouldn’t have all our eggs in one basket...which naturally means they’re not getting games unless they’re good enough for first XI here which would be some feat by a young player with limited experience. They’d have to be fairly exceptional. 

If we were a team who were happy to bumble along in mid table and develop our own players without sending them on loan then fine.

But we have supporters calling for the manager to be sacked when we’re three points off third. 

So how do you balance the progression of those youngsters with those unrealistic expectations and keep everyone happy whilst also fulfilling the home grown rule? Very difficult indeed. 

Hence I take issue to the lazy comment of ‘mismanaged’ as if it’s a crystal clear issue. 

It must’ve been a tough call in the summer determining who to loan out and who to keep.  The loan rules really do not help.

[Son of Fred]

3 minutes ago, Roe said:

The whole situation is just weird though.

Not too long ago Semenyo was getting picked to start ahead of Diedhiou.  Now he can't even get on the pitch.  I feel like LJ has burnt him out already and used him in completely the wrong way this season (and last season where the two games he started were 2 of the toughest games of the season in Leeds and Derby).

I also don't get how we've somehow thrown all our eggs in one basket with Semenyo being the only "first team" home grown player we've got to choose from atm.  I understand the need to develop all the young players we have and get them minutes, but it seems odd that none of them are trusted to progress here.

I'm not so sure there was a great deal of 'deep thought in bringing Semenyo back.

I think it was a 'tilt' because of our lack of striking options & it hasn't paid off.

It's not done us or the player any favours.

I understand why there is the 'homegrown' rule,,,sounds a great idea!

But in practice??..likely as often detrimental as valuable imo.

[Nomad]

31 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Nonsense! 

Every manger at all levels will tell you that he needs options on the bench and if you have a youth team player sat there that is one option less.............

Cotts didn't like a full bench.

[Robbored]

1 minute ago, Nomad said:

Cotts didn't like a full bench.

No he didn’t and that decision was another staple in his sack.......

[Roe]

12 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

If we were a team who were happy to bumble along in mid table and develop our own players without sending them on loan then fine.

But we have supporters calling for the manager to be sacked when we’re three points off third. 

So how do you balance the progression of those youngsters with those unrealistic expectations and keep everyone happy whilst also fulfilling the home grown rule? Very difficult indeed. 

This is true and it's why a lot of the harsh personal criticism of Johnson is unfair but it's also fair to debate the topic imo.

Perhaps the two go hand in hand.  If we were playing 2 or 3 home grown players, maybe the fans would be a bit more patient with the progression?  I can't speak for everyone, but I feel like I would be.

[swindon fan]

I posted on another thread on here about a strong rumour our end about Semenyo coming to us on loan next month.

interestingly, we are playing you this afternoon in a friendly.

[OneTeamInBristol]

Someone previously mentioned Freddie Hinds, what's happened with him and his Colchester loan?
Has he played any minutes this season?

[Riaz]

3 minutes ago, OneTeamInBristol said:

Someone previously mentioned Freddie Hinds, what's happened with him and his Colchester loan?
Has he played any minutes this season?

Thought he came back and didnt play for them

[Davefevs]

47 minutes ago, swindon fan said:

I posted on another thread on here about a strong rumour our end about Semenyo coming to us on loan next month.

interestingly, we are playing you this afternoon in a friendly.

Is that today?  At City or Swindon?

[Son of Fred]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Is that today?  At City or Swindon?

Behind closed doors..

[Top Robin]

20 hours ago, Shtanley said:

Crowded midfield imo. Remember when everyone loved Taylor Moore? He’s not even in the squad cause of our crowded defence.  Don’t think LJ will care about having a crowded midfield. 

Quantity not quality unfortunately

[Aipearcey]

Seen a young keeper warming up with the team recently so thought he may take the home grown place on the bench in January considering how often you actually change the keeper during the match during a season 

[Shtanley]

2 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

Quantity not quality unfortunately

Agree. LJ loves filling out a squad. No need for it, let the academy players be the 5th choice CB or the 4th choice CM. Semenyo hasn’t been that great I’ll admit but to never use him and sign a bloke like Rodri over him is a bit wrong imo. 

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

Agree. LJ loves filling out a squad. No need for it, let the academy players be the 5th choice CB or the 4th choice CM. Semenyo hasn’t been that great I’ll admit but to never use him and sign a bloke like Rodri over him is a bit wrong imo. 

Here’s a list of the players I’ve considered as being in the “senior” squad.  You can probably remove Cundy from that. Totals 40.  Perhaps take out Hinds and Janneh, still 38.