Thoughts as our Season reaches half time

[spudski]

41 minutes ago, glos old boy said:

We are only 3pts away from bottom half of the table as well, those injured players 2 are back playing in the first team, made little difference; and we should have adequete cover anyway or whats the point in having so many players?

Mate...we are a 1 wins difference to 4th place...and 7 points ahead of 15th.

Those teams between 14th and 3rd are pretty much the same, give or take a win or two.

In the bottom half there are are teams like Boro, Derby Huddersfield etc...all struggling.

Just look at the league, the table every week, the results...everyone beating everyone.

There is no devine right or magic wand. Everyone is trying to beat everyone.

Everyone is making mistakes. It's not as simple as we think.

Massive improvements can be made of course...and everyone else is trying to do the same.

Just trying to be realistic.

We are a mid table team with top 6 ambitions.

[robin_unreliant]

7 hours ago, spudski said:

I agree...at the moment we are boring to watch.

We've gone from being a team that played entertaining, free flowing football, with energy. However...we were too open and conceded too much. To make the next step we needed to defend better. LJ made those changes...in doing so, we played more concervatively, more structured, but it dampened our energy going forward and we lost our ability to create goal scoring opportunities.

We have now become a team based on defence, less energy, more structured, and even less ability to create scoring chances.

This change started when Famara joined us...our whole team structure and the way we played was done so to fit around his abilities.

Ever since... we've chopped and changed trying to find a formula that works. Nothing does...it may for a couple games, but then resorts to muddle.

We are a very muddled side.

The only time it got back to some sort of balance is when Afobe was playing.

That changed our game so much.

We can defend...we can play, we are structured...but in the last third... clueless.

There is a reason for that.

Except we aren't better defensively either. Our goals against number is our main problem. So if LJ IS trying to tighten it up to stop conceding then something is going very wrong.

[spudski]

9 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

Except we aren't better defensively either. Our goals against number is our main problem. So if LJ IS trying to tighten it up to stop conceding then something is going very wrong.

We have still scored more than we've conceded.

Granted our goals conceded could be better. Mad when you think only 5 clubs have scored more than us...yet we sit bottom of the league for xpected goals and creating goal scoring chances.

Our defensive problems come from our forward line. Too many 'creative' players aren't tactically defensive enough to help the team out. Eliasson, Palmer, Brownhill, Odowda, smozdics, Semenyo and Famara...the latter good at set piece defending.

Our defensive players know this...hence playing cautiously.

How many times do we see the offensive players lose the ball, only for our defensive players to be caught having to get back to defend.

How often do you see a ball by Eliasson crossed into the box and no one there...maybe two at most.

The reason...it's a 50/50 cross...you are more likely to lose it, because outnumbered by defenders. Risk putting players in the box, you are left miles open and to fast counter attack.

It's simple tactics, that we don't apply. It's muddled...two thirds of the pitch we are fine...last third it's a guessing game.

Surprised we've scored as many as we have.

Hopefully some decent forwards with good movement in January will improve us.

[redysteadygo]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

We have still scored more than we've conceded.

Granted our goals conceded could be better. Mad when you think only 5 clubs have scored more than us...yet we sit bottom of the league for xpected goals and creating goal scoring chances.

Our defensive problems come from our forward line. Too many 'creative' players aren't tactically defensive enough to help the team out. Eliasson, Palmer, Brownhill, Odowda, smozdics, Semenyo and Famara...the latter good at set piece defending.

Our defensive players know this...hence playing cautiously.

How many times do we see the offensive players lose the ball, only for our defensive players to be caught having to get back to defend.

How often do you see a ball by Eliasson crossed into the box and no one there...maybe two at most.

The reason...it's a 50/50 cross...you are more likely to lose it, because outnumbered by defenders. Risk putting players in the box, you are left miles open and to fast counter attack.

It's simple tactics, that we don't apply. It's muddled...two thirds of the pitch we are fine...last third it's a guessing game.

Surprised we've scored as many as we have.

Hopefully some decent forwards with good movement in January will improve us.

Two thirds, really. I consider the offensive middle third to be more lacking than the final third. Hence the problem at both ends.

[spudski]

1 minute ago, redysteadygo said:

Two thirds, really. I consider the offensive middle third to be more lacking than the final third. Hence the problem at both ends.

When we had Afobe...our final third and middle third worked well because of understanding and correct movement.

We have very poor movement up front ATM...even when there is, it is often into the wrong areas and confused. Hence us either losing the ball or it being recycled backwards.

Our movement and understanding between offensive players is very poor imo. And this has a knock on effect to others in the team who are trying to compensate for it.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

Except we aren't better defensively either. Our goals against number is our main problem. So if LJ IS trying to tighten it up to stop conceding then something is going very wrong.

Shots conceded is right near the bottom I'm sure. By which I mean, our defensive numbers in that respect are amongst the worst in this League.

@spudski Brownhill as a link between midfield and attack? Can't be worse than O'Dowda as the '1' on Sunday..also feel he's wasted in the position we played him Sunday.

[mozo]

If any statto champs out there can make it happen, I'd be fascinated to know how City in 2018 compared to City in 2019. Probably similar WDL record but who knows...?

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Shots conceded is right near the bottom I'm sure. By which I mean, our defensive numbers in that respect are amongst the worst in this League.

@spudski Brownhill as a link between midfield and attack? Can't be worse than O'Dowda as the '1' on Sunday..also feel he's wasted in the position we played him Sunday.

Brownhill isn't a defensive midfielder. He's been wasted imo.

All his strengths are offensive.

I'd play him at the top of a midfield diamond.

[downendcity]

It's half time in the season and we've gone in at 2-2. We're not 4-0 down, with no chance in the second half, and neither are we 4-0 up and merely needing to consolidate what we've got  (although with City even 4-0 is not enough to consolidate!).

Lj needs to make some changes in the second half to turn a draw into a win, but whether that will come from bringing in new players or getting more out of our current crop or a mixture of both is hard to know.

In LJ's defence, he lost effectively the spine of his first choice team for much of the first half ( Kalas, Nagy and Afobe)  Although Nagy and Kalas have returned, Im not sure they are yet 100% match fit and Afobe's loss is the greater as it affected so much of the way we play ( or were playing) and with Weimann and Palmer looked to be developing a potent front line. A bonus of the injury crisis is that we have seen a lot more of Massengo than might otherwise have been the case. 

On the negative side of things, we still have the achilles heel of poor home performances and results, which seems all the more confusing when compared with away form and results. The last three performances also tend to confirm that we have become a turgid attacking side, barely mustering 3/4 shots on target in 3 games - 2 of them at home! From the strong pressing and counter attacking side of 18months - 2 years ago, we now seem much closer to a SOD team with ponderous building from the back, making life all too easy for teams that come to AG to stifle us. Sadly, we seem more than capable of stifling our own attacks without needing the assistance of the opposition!

Also we have gone from being one of the most solid defensive teams in the division to one of the worst. I could understand our less than exciting attacking form if a by product was keeping things tight at the back, but we seem to be managing the worst of all worlds at the moment. Then again, Injuries right through the back line has meant that LJ has not really been able to keep a settled back line.

At the start of the season, with Moore and Kalas at the centre of a back 4, Nagy and Palmer in midfield and Weimann and Afire up front I think we started to see how Lj wanted the team to play, and had that continued I think we would now be talking much more positively about our fortunes. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RobintheRed Red]

12 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Unsure I agree. 

I'm coming round increasingly to a view that he doesn't tend to get the best of players from a higher level. Some exceptions of course but I suspect a different type of manager would get more out of Nagy (International decent side, decent for Bologna midtable Serie A) and Massengo (comes from a top academy in Monaco).

Plus closer to home,  Palmer. My theory perhaps is he is based on his playing days and his footballing history, used to- and I mean sticking dogmatically to- certain styles of play, trying to shoehorn different types of players into this one way.

Fourteen midfield players if you include Elliason and odowda and still doesnt know his best team.

[BCFC Rich]

6 hours ago, mozo said:

If any statto champs out there can make it happen, I'd be fascinated to know how City in 2018 compared to City in 2019. Probably similar WDL record but who knows...?

Closest I can find is this after 20 games. https://www.royals.org/tables/011218.php

 

edit: actually this is better:https://fussball.wettpoint.com/en/archives/tables/gamedays-2018/championship-england-23-2018-19.html

Summary last season 4 points worse off, 6 less goals scored and 6 less conceded - 13th place,  7 points behind 6th, 10 points behind 3rd and 15 behind 2nd.

[Guest]

On 23/12/2019 at 21:35, billywedlock said:

True , but we also fail too disregard clubs with the same resources doing better. Why do we have to accept second best when the base is there to do more. The lack of a clear identity after 60 players plus is unforgivable, and is what Leeds or last season Sheffield Inited could not be found guilty of and is what is holding the club back from greater success. No manager in the last ten years has taken a team to the Prem after 4 seasons in charge of a club. Unless you have a clear identity and plan and sign players to meet it, you are going to continue with our disjointed approach. To be talking of signing another 2 to 3 players in January beggars belief when we signed 7 in the summer, even if the Afobe injury has proven a catastrophe , But we needed more than one forward last summer anyway. If Brentford and Preston finish above this season, then serious questions need asking. Leeds will get promoted, non parachute payment club with a not too dissimilar wage bill. It can be done and the continued excuse making for LJ is wearing thin. He is not Eddie Howe or Dyche, he is a good coach but far from exceptional., any progress well linked with wage bill increase not coaching ability. . He does not obtain results greater than the sum of the parts and there are many in the game incredibly jealous of his funding, stability and believe our squad is underperforming. That we are awful to watch makes it even more frustrating with almost no entertainment value. I stand back and look at the few that make better decisions and create success and ask why is it not us. I get your sentiment, I do, but if we carry on like this we risk going in circles when we have the potential dial to do far better . If every club is a parachute payment club I can agree, bit every year there is a side with similar or less resources that gain promotion. Why don't we ask what they did to do that rather than making excuses.  It is the wrong mentality. 

Sheff Utd are a good example but there are quite a few more that pass us by while we go around in circles. Now I know the we are progressing year on year thing will be paraded proudly by some but are we...really. The manager certainly seems not to be learning and seems to be unable to decide his best first team and is intent on changing plans/players to combat other teams when we should be letting them worry about us, is annoying.

We have had (well BS has) bigger incomes from higher gates, better corperate and food outlets and higher transfer sells and concerts etc. Against that some poor recruitment and short term loan fixes have knocked us back a bit.

Sustainability is the word that is used to keep fans happy and accept the masterplan; which to me seems like we dont want to grasp the nettle and are happy to watch the likes of Sheff Utd leave us in our own little safe world.

[Robin Wood]

On 22/12/2019 at 19:58, Northern Red said:

I was right, you do still think we'll get relegated, don't you?

A bit worried we may not get the 16 points we need at the moment at least it's Luton in the next game that should be a classic 

[Eastside Moonwalker]

was enjoying watching a few of the games on streams this year, cardiff game was a nice win. 

 

Went to the game against blackburn and it was one of the worst things I've ever seen since SOD so just decided to call it a day this season, will check scores but thats it

[downendcity]

On 24/12/2019 at 21:49, downendcity said:

It's half time in the season and we've gone in at 2-2. We're not 4-0 down, with no chance in the second half, and neither are we 4-0 up and merely needing to consolidate what we've got  (although with City even 4-0 is not enough to consolidate!).

Lj needs to make some changes in the second half to turn a draw into a win, but whether that will come from bringing in new players or getting more out of our current crop or a mixture of both is hard to know.

In LJ's defence, he lost effectively the spine of his first choice team for much of the first half ( Kalas, Nagy and Afobe)  Although Nagy and Kalas have returned, Im not sure they are yet 100% match fit and Afobe's loss is the greater as it affected so much of the way we play ( or were playing) and with Weimann and Palmer looked to be developing a potent front line. A bonus of the injury crisis is that we have seen a lot more of Massengo than might otherwise have been the case. 

On the negative side of things, we still have the achilles heel of poor home performances and results, which seems all the more confusing when compared with away form and results. The last three performances also tend to confirm that we have become a turgid attacking side, barely mustering 3/4 shots on target in 3 games - 2 of them at home! From the strong pressing and counter attacking side of 18months - 2 years ago, we now seem much closer to a SOD team with ponderous building from the back, making life all too easy for teams that come to AG to stifle us. Sadly, we seem more than capable of stifling our own attacks without needing the assistance of the opposition!

Also we have gone from being one of the most solid defensive teams in the division to one of the worst. I could understand our less than exciting attacking form if a by product was keeping things tight at the back, but we seem to be managing the worst of all worlds at the moment. Then again, Injuries right through the back line has meant that LJ has not really been able to keep a settled back line.

At the start of the season, with Moore and Kalas at the centre of a back 4, Nagy and Palmer in midfield and Weimann and Afire up front I think we started to see how Lj wanted the team to play, and had that continued I think we would now be talking much more positively about our fortunes. 

Damn,we conceded a goal to go 1 down in injury time at the end of the first half of the season, and that changes the complexion of things just a bit!

Momentum sometimes is everything. While Lj had to contend with injuries left right and centre, acheiving the results he did was admirable , even if  the football wasn't the most sparkling. With players back from injury, and sparked by 2 impressive wins it seemed we had the springboard for a real push over Christmas and into the new year. 

As it is, 4 defeats on the bounce have knocked the (Christmas) stuffing out of us. Poor performances and lacklustre attacking were anything but inspiring and today's defeat ( clutching defeat from the jaws of victory) will do nothing for players' or fans' confidence. Rather than the new year being one of consolidating a place in the top 6, it has now become one of trying to hang on to the coat tails of those teams fighting for a top 6 place.

Unfortunately we are going backwards while what were only 4 weeks ago our main rivals seem to be surging ahead. Despite which, we are still only couple of wins from getting back into the top 6- although where those couple of wins are going to come from is anyone's guess at the moment!