Is Johnson “too nice”

[scrumpy88]

Yet again another abysmal performance and LJ still comes out with the same stuff afterwards.

I’m not saying he should throw players under the bus but maybe come out and say performances have been unacceptable. 

Some players seems to have it too easy gets picked week after week even when they are offering nothing at all. 

The players need a rocket up the ass and come out fighting every game. 

[Curr Avon]

15 minutes ago, scrumpy88 said:

Yet again another abysmal performance and LJ still comes out with the same stuff afterwards.

I’m not saying he should throw players under the bus but maybe come out and say performances have been unacceptable. 

Some players seems to have it too easy gets picked week after week even when they are offering nothing at all. 

The players need a rocket up the ass and come out fighting every game. 

What did LJ say. I haven't heard any post-match interviews. Its just drink. 

[Guest]

No I think he's probably too harsh if anything. He makes tactical mistakes by picking the wrong team, and then often blames players in post match interviews.

[spudski]

19 minutes ago, scrumpy88 said:

Yet again another abysmal performance and LJ still comes out with the same stuff afterwards.

I’m not saying he should throw players under the bus but maybe come out and say performances have been unacceptable. 

Some players seems to have it too easy gets picked week after week even when they are offering nothing at all. 

The players need a rocket up the ass and come out fighting every game. 

He did say individual performances have been bad.

But as I've posted on another thread...twenty something's don't react positively to a rocket up the ass.

I feel for managers these days, who have to encourage, give positive words, be careful not to offend or hurt feelings, after certain individual performances...when all you want to do is kick them into next week.

I'd get them in a boot camp with a trooper screaming in their face over Xmas.

Everything offensively is powder puff.

 

[JoeAman08]

Too nice? Maybe but not sure that is the problem. Think Klopp is nice but he is an extremely talented man motivator and so comfortable in his own skin. LJ strikes me as insecure and think that holds him back. Also think he is too clever(in his own mind) always talking about an extra percent but can’t get the basic 95% right. 

[Prinny]

2 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

No I think he's probably too harsh if anything. He makes tactical mistakes by picking the wrong team, and then often blames players in post match interviews.

We coached them wrong, our recruitment was wrong, I was wrong.

I usually agree with his player assessments, but he also never takes personal responsibility.

[And Its Smith]

32 minutes ago, scrumpy88 said:

Yet again another abysmal performance and LJ still comes out with the same stuff afterwards.

I’m not saying he should throw players under the bus but maybe come out and say performances have been unacceptable. 

Some players seems to have it too easy gets picked week after week even when they are offering nothing at all. 

The players need a rocket up the ass and come out fighting every game. 

He’s said what you say he should be saying. 

[Curr Avon]

36 minutes ago, scrumpy88 said:

Yet again another abysmal performance and LJ still comes out with the same stuff afterwards.

I’m not saying he should throw players under the bus but maybe come out and say performances have been unacceptable. 

Some players seems to have it too easy gets picked week after week even when they are offering nothing at all. 

The players need a rocket up the ass and come out fighting every game. 

Lee needs to be more like Nigel Pearson. I'm not saying he's a hard man, but he did laugh when Bambi died.

[chinapig]

14 minutes ago, spudski said:

He did say individual performances have been bad.

But as I've posted on another thread...twenty something's don't react positively to a rocket up the ass.

I feel for managers these days, who have to encourage, give positive words, be careful not to offend or hurt feelings, after certain individual performances...when all you want to do is kick them into next week.

I'd get them in a boot camp with a trooper screaming in their face over Xmas.

Everything offensively is powder puff.

 

You are right, and LJ has made the same point as you more than once.

He tends to use the phrase he used today, "we lacked quality in midfield and attack" , which is about the most you can say these days without getting the response from players you describe.

In fact he has been criticised by fans in the past for publicly criticising players. Now it appears he is too soft.  Football managers tend to be damned if they do and damned if they don't.

[spudski]

4 minutes ago, chinapig said:

You are right, and LJ has made the same point as you more than once.

He tends to use the phrase he used today, "we lacked quality in midfield and attack" , which is about the most you can say these days without getting the response from players you describe.

In fact he has been criticised by fans in the past for publicly criticising players. Now it appears he is too soft.  Football managers tend to be damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Exactly...

[AppyDAZE]

38 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

What did LJ say. I haven't heard any post-match interviews. Its just drink. 

Bristol City boss Lee Johnson told BBC Radio Bristol:

"It's not a penalty, it's as simple as that, and that's disappointing because it's a third party if you like who's influenced the result.

"We weren't great in terms of our quality but we defended pretty resolutely and that's the frustrating thing.

"After two losses you come to Hillsborough, get a 0-0, a clean sheet, and really build off the positives of that.

"Now we go into the Charlton game and it's three losses on the spin but this one wasn't down to us."

 

 

All down to one man, apparently.

 

[cidered abroad]

23 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Too nice? Maybe but not sure that is the problem. Think Klopp is nice but he is an extremely talented man motivator and so comfortable in his own skin. LJ strikes me as insecure and think that holds him back. Also think he is too clever(in his own mind) always talking about an extra percent but can’t get the basic 95% right. 

Another major fact with Liverpool is that they have a smaller squad than us.

Johnson has too many players, too many in some positions, too few in some positions like goal scoring strikers and a second left back given that Dasilva was injured so early on.

Liverpool stick to the same basic pattern whereas City change it to suit the opposition.

I know it's probably wrong to compare us with Liverpool but they have a manager who knows what he is doing at that level. City have a Head Coach who hasn't a clue what he is doing. He just uses his dad's tactics!

[Red Exile]

14 minutes ago, chinapig said:

You are right, and LJ has made the same point as you more than once.

He tends to use the phrase he used today, "we lacked quality in midfield and attack" , which is about the most you can say these days without getting the response from players you describe.

In fact he has been criticised by fans in the past for publicly criticising players. Now it appears he is too soft.  Football managers tend to be damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Good point, well made...but surely LJ's job is precisely to send out a side that demonstrates the necessary quality in all areas, or at least the highest quality the players he chooses can produce...and to do so week in and week out. That's literally his job.

A wholly secondary part of his job is explaining where it went wrong.

I say this as someone who still makes a living in the creative industries...(and I'd argue that professional football is one of them)...in my branch of that world you'd struggle to get much work if your time was spent explaining why the people you'd hired weren't performing.

No one expects miracles. If the players aren't good enough say so...but to imply that they are good enough but aren't performing is - for me - an indictment of the management. Doesn't much matter whether he is 'nice' or giving a rocket - it's his job to know what his players respond to.

[Andy082005]

58 minutes ago, scrumpy88 said:

Yet again another abysmal performance and LJ still comes out with the same stuff afterwards.

I’m not saying he should throw players under the bus but maybe come out and say performances have been unacceptable. 

Some players seems to have it too easy gets picked week after week even when they are offering nothing at all. 

The players need a rocket up the ass and come out fighting every game. 

Or maybe....just maybe....it's not a case of him being to nice, maybe he just isn't a good enough coach / manager 

We have one of the most talented squads we have had for a long long time. Yet he cannot seem to get a team and a formation together that suits us 

How many players has he signed? Yet the same glaring weaknesses are still there....2 years on

Time to stop blaming the players....and time to start looking at the coaching . It's not good enough 

[Curr Avon]

10 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

Bristol City boss Lee Johnson told BBC Radio Bristol:

"It's not a penalty, it's as simple as that, and that's disappointing because it's a third party if you like who's influenced the result.

"We weren't great in terms of our quality but we defended pretty resolutely and that's the frustrating thing.

"After two losses you come to Hillsborough, get a 0-0, a clean sheet, and really build off the positives of that.

"Now we go into the Charlton game and it's three losses on the spin but this one wasn't down to us."

 

 

All down to one man, apparently.

 

Another pint please Barman.

[chinapig]

34 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

Good point, well made...but surely LJ's job is precisely to send out a side that demonstrates the necessary quality in all areas, or at least the highest quality the players he chooses can produce...and to do so week in and week out. That's literally his job.

A wholly secondary part of his job is explaining where it went wrong.

I say this as someone who still makes a living in the creative industries...(and I'd argue that professional football is one of them)...in my branch of that world you'd struggle to get much work if your time was spent explaining why the people you'd hired weren't performing.

No one expects miracles. If the players aren't good enough say so...but to imply that they are good enough but aren't performing is - for me - an indictment of the management. Doesn't much matter whether he is 'nice' or giving a rocket - it's his job to know what his players respond to.

Are your team in physically intense competition with somebody else's team though, with a hostile crowd and 3 people making decisions that impact on their results?

The players concerned are all capable of doing much better than they did. Once they are on the pitch there is not a lot a coach can do if they fail in their basic skills. He can only replace 3 of them during the course of a game.

[Red Exile]

5 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Are your team in physically intense competition with somebody else's team though, with a hostile crowd and 3 people making decisions that impact on their results?

The players concerned are all capable of doing much better than they did. Once they are on the pitch there is not a lot a coach can do if they fail in their basic skills. He can only replace 3 of them during the course of a game.

My teams aren't under physical pressure no, different sort of pressure. 

My point isn't so much whether the players, or indeed manager, are under pressure...they are...it's rather that, in my opinion, a team manager is judged by the performance they get out of their team. I've made it perfectly clear that I don't think Lee Johnson is up to the job of getting City promoted so I don't imagine this observation will come as a surprise, but if a manager steps out after an off-day and blames the players for not performing he's effectively criticising himself.

[chinapig]

2 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

My teams aren't under physical pressure no, different sort of pressure. 

My point isn't so much whether the players, or indeed manager, are under pressure...they are...it's rather that, in my opinion, a team manager is judged by the performance they get out of their team. I've made it perfectly clear that I don't think Lee Johnson is up to the job of getting City promoted so I don't imagine this observation will come as a surprise, but if a manager steps out after an off-day and blames the players for not performing he's effectively criticising himself.

Maybe, though I don't see how that leads to the conclusion that players have no responsibility for their performance. The manager may ultimately be accountable but that that doesn't remove all responsibility from the players.

[Red Exile]

Just now, chinapig said:

Maybe, though I don't see how that leads to the conclusion that players have no responsibility for their performance. The manager may ultimately be accountable but that that doesn't remove all responsibility from the players.

No - fair point. It doesn't.

Anyway, Christmas and the family beckons me from my computer. I'll try to forget about City until we all rally around the TV on Boxing Day! 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

He did say individual performances have been bad.

But as I've posted on another thread...twenty something's don't react positively to a rocket up the ass.

I feel for managers these days, who have to encourage, give positive words, be careful not to offend or hurt feelings, after certain individual performances...when all you want to do is kick them into next week.

I'd get them in a boot camp with a trooper screaming in their face over Xmas.

Everything offensively is powder puff.

 

That'd quite possibly make me less cooperative over time, but modern players I guess- who knows?

[spudski]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That'd quite possibly make me less cooperative over time, but modern players I guess- who knows?

It's becoming a problem when LJ keeps mentioning individual performances in games are poor.

We as fans can also see it.

Certain players go hiding... don't want to take responsibility. It's not down to age or experience imo...it's down to character. Individual character.

Look at young Taylor Moore...he never goes hiding. Been through a tough route, but the guy oozes character, steps up, takes responsibility.

I look at the likes of Odowda and recently Josh...both individually weak mentally, physically and introvert. They both go hiding when the pressure is on.

It's easy not to receive a pass...position yourself behind a defender or close the angle. Watch them both...they do it regularly when they don't want the ball.

Hence why the ball gets recycled again.

It's clever...but doesn't help your team mates.

 

[Chappers]

1 hour ago, AppyDAZE said:

Bristol City boss Lee Johnson told BBC Radio Bristol:

"It's not a penalty, it's as simple as that, and that's disappointing because it's a third party if you like who's influenced the result.

"We weren't great in terms of our quality but we defended pretty resolutely and that's the frustrating thing.

"After two losses you come to Hillsborough, get a 0-0, a clean sheet, and really build off the positives of that.

"Now we go into the Charlton game and it's three losses on the spin but this one wasn't down to us."

 

 

All down to one man, apparently.

 

Was at the game. Odd comment as the double substitution was bizarre, the wrong players to bring on if you are looking to frustrate and get a 0-0, or maybe steal a win on the break. Opening the game up when we were a tad off form was perhaps a questionable gamble.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Substitutions definitely didn't help- shape likewise, all just seemed disjointed.

[Son of Fred]

35 minutes ago, spudski said:

Look at young Taylor Moore...he never goes hiding

Blokes a trooper...should be starting every match if fit.

Great outlook,bright,,positive - Gona go far - probably not with us!!

[Natchfever]

2 hours ago, scrumpy88 said:

Yet again another abysmal performance and LJ still comes out with the same stuff afterwards.

I’m not saying he should throw players under the bus but maybe come out and say performances have been unacceptable. 

Some players seems to have it too easy gets picked week after week even when they are offering nothing at all. 

The players need a rocket up the ass and come out fighting every game. 

Why do players always get the blame? 

Definitely responsible but so is the man who identifies recruits selects and sets them up. 

[The Bard]

50 minutes ago, spudski said:

It's becoming a problem when LJ keeps mentioning individual performances in games are poor.

We as fans can also see it.

Certain players go hiding... don't want to take responsibility. It's not down to age or experience imo...it's down to character. Individual character.

Look at young Taylor Moore...he never goes hiding. Been through a tough route, but the guy oozes character, steps up, takes responsibility.

I look at the likes of Odowda and recently Josh...both individually weak mentally, physically and introvert. They both go hiding when the pressure is on.

It's easy not to receive a pass...position yourself behind a defender or close the angle. Watch them both...they do it regularly when they don't want the ball.

Hence why the ball gets recycled again.

It's clever...but doesn't help your team mates.

 

Excellent point.  It begs the question why do they get picked over others...

[spudski]

2 minutes ago, The Bard said:

Excellent point.  It begs the question why do they get picked over others...

Because on their day they are very good.

Josh over seasons has arguably been our most consistent player. Hence Premier interest.

He'll probably thrive with better players around him...

 

[The Bard]

If you look at our strongest, most consistent players then we have to play Moore, Williams and Kalas every game.  We also need to play Eliasson, Smith and Nagy. Clearly.  So, the manager needs to find a way of incorporating them all.  I'd be very interested to see Smith and Nagy in CM.  Can they work together?  Suggest Moore stays at RB now.  He was wittering on about needing a 6 foot full back.  

Did anyone watching that game think Brownhill was the team's leader?

Thought not. It's time for either Williams or Smith to take the armband.

[The Bard]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

Because on their day they are very good.

Josh over seasons has arguably been our most consistent player. Hence Premier interest.

He'll probably thrive with better players around him...

 

Most of the team are very good on their day.

Brownhill is a level or 2 above O'Dowda who is 70% poor 30 % decent.  JB never gets left out which I think isn't good.  He could do with the proverbial boot every now and again which everyone does.  If you think you're untouchable it can have a negative effect on how you do in any job..

[CotswoldRed]

5 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Too nice? Maybe but not sure that is the problem. Think Klopp is nice but he is an extremely talented man motivator and so comfortable in his own skin. LJ strikes me as insecure and think that holds him back. Also think he is too clever(in his own mind) always talking about an extra percent but can’t get the basic 95% right. 

This post needs framing and placing within LJs office. 

Spot on.