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Maesknoll Red

Spurs Investigation

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13 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Wrongly accused of being a racist

I don't think the phrase 'wrongly accused' is correctly used in this instance.

A lack of evidence to prove something to be true doesn't mean it is proven false.

If there was evidence to prove Rudiger had maliciously invented the story, he would probably be charged, but there isn't.

Innocent until proven guilty. I.e. Spurs/Fans are innocent in the eyes of the law as no proof of guilt, but no proof that it was an invented claim either, hence Rudiger is also innocent of that.

Edited by Coxy27
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1 hour ago, Natchfever said:

So the police has spent presumably a lot of time and resource investigating something that was ultimately found to be false ?

We don't have the "not proven" principle in England so will the accuser be asked to explain himself ? Rudiger can't claim that its a language issue because that chant is universal.

Highly doubtful, and this "incident" may either encourage cynical claims as an act of gamesmanship, or far worse make players who do fall victim of such abuse to keep quiet about it.The initial media outrage made it clear that Spurs supporters were found guilty before being proven innocent.

On balance, I think Rudiger made it up which is shameful.

 

The incident hasn't actually been found to be false - it hasn't been found to be true, which is a different thing.

Genuine question though. You obviously feel that the lack of evidence that racial abuse occurred means that, in all probability, no racial abuse occurred. That's a perfectly reasonable assertation and I'd be willing to agree that, on balance, Rudiger probably was mistaken and probably no racial abuse occurred.

But, just as there appear to be no evidence that racial abuse occurred, there is also no evidence to suggest Rudiger made it up. Tottenham and the police have been very clear they do not think he made it up and actively stated he did the right thing in reporting it. I can understand why you might think the player was mistaken but why are you accusing the player of deliberately lying, when you surely cannot have any evidence to base that on?

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26 minutes ago, wood_red said:

I disagree, if someone has been shouting the monkey chant then surely with the amount of cameras around it would be spotted (you don't need lip readers surely as it would be obvious). If Rudiger did hear it from the pitch I find it hard to accept nobody else heard it, and as for nobody reporting it I also cannot accept that, unless Spurs has a huge element of racists and they were all sat in the same area which is very very doubtful. People get offended by the smallest things and report them nowadays, to think that probably a couple of hundred people have heard that and not a single one reported it, I just cannot believe it for one minute. If just one single person reported it and they just couldn't find the culprit it would be reported.

Either Rudiger has made it up after getting some stick, or he has misheard the "cheat, cheat, cheat" chant.

Gut feeling tells me this is more likely, but certainly can't rule out being made up...lack of comeback on him makes me feel that it's unlikely he outright made it up though.

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13 hours ago, 054123 said:

That’s fair enough.

What do you think Gary Neville will say? 

Why would he say anything at all? He made his comments after a number of incidents of racial abuse at football matches. Since the Rudiger incident, there have been several more incidents - fans ejected and arrested at Brighton v Chelsea, same at Peterborough v Doncaster, a Burnley fan arrested for abusing Son, I think a non-league game called off due to racism (but I can't find a new story to back that up), a report saying racist incidents at football have doubled in the last four years.

Even if the Rudiger incident was not found to be racism, it certainly does not invalidate any of the points Neville made about what is clearly an increasing problem of racism in football so why would he need to take back a single word?

Not often - or ever - I say this but I think the Daily Mail have hit the nail on the head here:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7851947/So-Antonio-Rudiger-did-Reality-victims-ending-dock.html

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22 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

No one spoke up in a crowd of that size with cameras all over the place too ?

Why are the chances that it did happen by the way ?

I am sure that Rudiger has suffered abuse in his life and career, but perhaps, just perhaps he wasn't in this case, and his claims were false ?

He appears to have been the only one who may have misheard the chant.

So you think, a premier league football who has played hundreds of games, is gonna suddenly stop playing football and pretend to get angry about something that didn’t happen? Come on now.

He’s heard something. It’s got him angry, but they haven’t been able to locate the person in a big crowd. It happens 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Riaz said:

So you think, a premier league football who has played hundreds of games, is gonna suddenly stop playing football and pretend to get angry about something that didn’t happen? Come on now.

He’s heard something. It’s got him angry, but they haven’t been able to locate the person in a big crowd. It happens 

 

 

Footballers lie and cheat all the time.

Some saying "unproven" others saying "false".

Agree to disagree on this one I think, but can probably agree that it certainly does happen, and when it does the perpetrator needs dealing with, whether thats in a football stadium or the street, and that the approach should be consistent wherever and whoever does it.

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Rudiger clearly felt he suffered racial abuse while playing in Italy.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/may/31/roma-antonio-rudiger-racism-serie-a-italy-football

It may be was looking a bit too hard to find similar here to continue and highlight a justified grievance, and simply didn't take into account that opposition fans can give you stick and it doesn't have to be anything to do with race at all.

 

 

Edited by Nogbad the Bad

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37 minutes ago, Riaz said:

So you think, a premier league football who has played hundreds of games, is gonna suddenly stop playing football and pretend to get angry about something that didn’t happen? Come on now.

He’s heard something. It’s got him angry, but they haven’t been able to locate the person in a big crowd. It happens 

 

 

And he couldn't have misheard what was said/shouted and got it wrong? Why has no other player heard it? Why not many, many fans reporting it?

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5 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Rudiger clearly felt he suffered racial abuse while playing in Italy.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/may/31/roma-antonio-rudiger-racism-serie-a-italy-football

It may be has was looking a bit too hard to find similar here to continue and highlight a justified grievance, and simply didn't take into account that opposition fans can give you stick and it doesn't have to be anything to do with race at all.

 

 

So you're telling me in the 60 odd games that Rudiger has played for Chelsea he's never had any abuse from opposition fans? That's the only the way the above makes any sense.

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3 minutes ago, Redinthehead said:

So you're telling me in the 60 odd games that Rudiger has played for Chelsea he's never had any abuse from opposition fans? That's the only the way the above makes any sense.

It may be on this occasion he completely misinterpreted the nature of the noise from the crowd, and, due to past occurrences abroad, jumped to entirely the wrong conclusion.

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1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

It may be on this occasion he completely misinterpreted the nature of the noise from the crowd, and, due to past occurrences abroad, jumped to entirely the wrong conclusion.

That makes sense.

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6 hours ago, Riaz said:

So you think, a premier league football who has played hundreds of games, is gonna suddenly stop playing football and pretend to get angry about something that didn’t happen? Come on now.

He’s heard something. It’s got him angry, but they haven’t been able to locate the person in a big crowd. It happens 

 

 

No but there’s is an equal chance he Miss heard something, remember no other player or person on the pitch heard anything,

Chance are he’s miss heard it and the case is now rightly closed,

as for what nev said, it’s correct something needs to be done in this country we’ve had games stopped due to racist chanting or such, we are quick to point the blame and be outraged at other countries but we also need to get our house in order 

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