Maybe, just maybe

[headhunter]

...... the SL love affair with the Johnsons' has reached a tipping point.

Around about the 16th minute of Sunday's game at Hillsborough the TV camera focused for what seemed like an age on Steve's face and all of us watching felt he didn't have the face of a particularly happy bunny.

He hadn't then witnessed the 74 minutes of utter dross that followed on top of had taken place at the previous two home games.

What was he thinking? 

He's created a stadium worthy of the Prem and given his manager the freedom to sign 40+ [?] players across 7 [yes, 7!] transfer windows to assemble a side that has no identity and no shape. He has to listen to Johnson utter such phrases as "we lack leaders.... we need big hearts" etc etc and at the time must be thinking ffs you signed them and you want more!

Yes, we have had steady progression but he must look with envy at Bournemouth, Sheffield United & Burnley and think why them, not us. At Brentford & Preston - sustainable models by way of comparison but more clever in the market and tactically more resilient.

I don't buy the "have to sell our best players" as an excuse - the squad IS stronger now by some distance compared with 3 years ago. Our coach just does not know how to get the best out of them - key signings Nagy & Massengo on the bench on Sunday, experienced players Baker & Watkins no in the matchday 18.

What does success look like between 26/12 & 4 January? For me it goes like this DWDW. If it goes LDLD I think the natives will be restless and the pressure might tell.

 

 

[BarnzFM]

Perhaps someone farted next to him?

[headhunter]

18 minutes ago, BarnzFM said:

Perhaps someone farted next to him?

Are you suggesting Mrs. Lansdown had the previous night's curry for breakfast [her sleeve was visible left edge of screen!!!]?

[richwwtk]

34 minutes ago, headhunter said:

At Brentford & Preston - sustainable models by way of comparison but more clever in the market and tactically more resilient.

In what way? Similar sustainable models agreed, but their results and league positions are, by and large, similar to ours as well. We're doing no worse than either of them.

[Tinmans Love Child]

5 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

In what way? Similar sustainable models agreed, but their results and league positions are, by and large, similar to ours as well. We're doing no worse than either of them.

Agreed not seen Brentford or Preston getting promoted to the Prem in the last however many years same as us, they generally finish around the same places we do, 

[slartibartfast]

42 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

Agreed not seen Brentford or Preston getting promoted to the Prem in the last however many years same as us, they generally finish around the same places we do, 

Difference being, we get twice the crowds they do (Brentford ,anyway )

[marksy]

I would have been a bit more concerned if he was sat there with a smile like a Cheshire cat.  

[cidercity1987]

39 minutes ago, slartibartfast said:

Difference being, we get twice the crowds they do (Brentford ,anyway )

Exactly, why on earth are we measuring ourselves against these clubs?? Preston also get half our home attendances.

How many clubs in the top 2 divisions would get 20k in the Championship? Clubs that mark doesn't include are Palace, Burnley, Bournemouth, Watford. It's about time we measured ourselves against this batch of still smaller but more successful clubs, not tiny teams like Brentford and Preston.

[daored]

2 hours ago, headhunter said:

...... the SL love affair with the Johnsons' has reached a tipping point.

Around about the 16th minute of Sunday's game at Hillsborough the TV camera focused for what seemed like an age on Steve's face and all of us watching felt he didn't have the face of a particularly happy bunny.

He hadn't then witnessed the 74 minutes of utter dross that followed on top of had taken place at the previous two home games.

What was he thinking? 

He's created a stadium worthy of the Prem and given his manager the freedom to sign 40+ [?] players across 7 [yes, 7!] transfer windows to assemble a side that has no identity and no shape. He has to listen to Johnson utter such phrases as "we lack leaders.... we need big hearts" etc etc and at the time must be thinking ffs you signed them and you want more!

Yes, we have had steady progression but he must look with envy at Bournemouth, Sheffield United & Burnley and think why them, not us. At Brentford & Preston - sustainable models by way of comparison but more clever in the market and tactically more resilient.

I don't buy the "have to sell our best players" as an excuse - the squad IS stronger now by some distance compared with 3 years ago. Our coach just does not know how to get the best out of them - key signings Nagy & Massengo on the bench on Sunday, experienced players Baker & Watkins no in the matchday 18.

What does success look like between 26/12 & 4 January? For me it goes like this DWDW. If it goes LDLD I think the natives will be restless and the pressure might tell.

 

 

I don’t think Johnson is under any extreme pressure by the club currently. However, if we were to finish a distance behind the play off places I do think questions would be asked. 
 

I think this may be Johnson’s last season at the club. Whether he walks or is pushed I just have a feeling one way or another we have a new manager in place for next season 

[Bazooka Joe]

Maybe he's thinking "Should I take the red pill?"

[RedM]

The camera did show him. But it must have been a break in play or something uninteresting for them to focus on him for that long, so what was he supposed to look like?

The commentators took that time to say about how SL believes in the long term and how our club, despite him being one of the richest owners, has to be sustainable. 

LJ is in his long term plans, nothing has changed.

[Lrrr]

31 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Exactly, why on earth are we measuring ourselves against these clubs?? Preston also get half our home attendances.

How many clubs in the top 2 divisions would get 20k in the Championship? Clubs that mark doesn't include are Palace, Burnley, Bournemouth, Watford. It's about time we measured ourselves against this batch of still smaller but more successful clubs, not tiny teams like Brentford and Preston.

And yet some big clubs are horrendously managed financially and on pitch/transfers, just because they get smaller crowds they both have good plans and structure. 

[richwwtk]

29 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Exactly, why on earth are we measuring ourselves against these clubs?? Preston also get half our home attendances.

How many clubs in the top 2 divisions would get 20k in the Championship? Clubs that mark doesn't include are Palace, Burnley, Bournemouth, Watford. It's about time we measured ourselves against this batch of still smaller but more successful clubs, not tiny teams like Brentford and Preston.

Crowd size doesn't really matter that much from a budget point of view. We make approx £6-7 million a season out of ticket sales, these days that's nowhere near the majority of our budget.

All of the teams you mention would comfortably get 15K in the Championship (capacity permitting) making the difference in income from ticket sales irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

You are also in danger of sounding like a fewer when calling other Championship sides 'tiny' in comparison to us. Preston in particular have a history we can only dream of.

And yes, we should be trying to emulate clubs such as Palace, Burnley and Watford and that is exactly where we are moving towards, season on season.

[Malvern Red]

2 hours ago, richwwtk said:

In what way? Similar sustainable models agreed, but their results and league positions are, by and large, similar to ours as well. We're doing no worse than either of them.

Brentford play far better football and Preston are streetwise enough to be better than us playing even worse football 

[Son of Fred]

2 minutes ago, Malvern Red said:

Brentford play far better football and Preston are streetwise enough to be better than us playing even worse football 

Because they're better coached.

[red panda]

Based on last season's average attendances across all English leagues, we should be 10th in the Championship.  We're over-performing 

[richwwtk]

6 minutes ago, Malvern Red said:

Brentford play far better football and Preston are streetwise enough to be better than us playing even worse football 

 

4 minutes ago, Robert the bruce said:

Because they're better coached.

 

But have very similar league placings and success over the past few seasons.

[grifty]

8 minutes ago, Robert the bruce said:

Because they're better coached.

Better coached and have a whole 2 points more than us, yet there is outrage on here that Johnson should go and SL is doing whatever he wants and the players arnt good enough and don’t care and we should have bought x,y and z and wasted money on a,b and c.

[cidercity1987]

29 minutes ago, hodge said:

And yet some big clubs are horrendously managed financially and on pitch/transfers, just because they get smaller crowds they both have good plans and structure. 

We have good plans, structures and now the crowds to back it up. What's going wrong that we are 4 places behind a club whose attendance 2 weeks ago v Fulham was lower than we have had for at least 20 years?

[cidercity1987]

23 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

Crowd size doesn't really matter that much from a budget point of view. We make approx £6-7 million a season out of ticket sales, these days that's nowhere near the majority of our budget.

All of the teams you mention would comfortably get 15K in the Championship (capacity permitting) making the difference in income from ticket sales irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

You are also in danger of sounding like a fewer when calling other Championship sides 'tiny' in comparison to us. Preston in particular have a history we can only dream of.

And yes, we should be trying to emulate clubs such as Palace, Burnley and Watford and that is exactly where we are moving towards, season on season.

Most clubs in the top 50 or 60 of attendances have history we can only dream of. Our history is absolutely diabolical but the crowds are flocking to AG in comparison to the likes of Preston who yes have the history but have a tiny fanbase despite that history.

[Northern Red]

2 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

We have good plans, structures and now the crowds to back it up. What's going wrong that we are 6 places behind a club whose attendance 2 weeks ago v Fulham was lower than we have had for at least 20 years?

Yeah, disasterous. We should probably write the season off and sack everybody.

Absolute states on here like.

[grifty]

2 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

We have good plans, structures and now the crowds to back it up. What's going wrong that we are 6 places behind a club whose attendance 2 weeks ago v Fulham was lower than we have had for at least 20 years?

So is that why the players couldn’t string two passes together v Sheff wed? Cos of Brentford’s attendances 2 weeks ago?

[cidercity1987]

2 minutes ago, grifty said:

So is that why the players couldn’t string two passes together v Sheff wed? Cos of Brentford’s attendances 2 weeks ago?

Why can't we string two passes together but Brentford can? What's the reason for that and what's the solution?

[grifty]

2 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Why can't we string two passes together but Brentford can? What's the reason for that and what's the solution?

According to you it’s because of their attendance?

Id say it’s because of a few issues including the players themselves and the way the tactics are interpreted. Maybe Johnson needs to go back to basics for formations and player roles.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, richwwtk said:

In what way? Similar sustainable models agreed, but their results and league positions are, by and large, similar to ours as well. We're doing no worse than either of them.

Look at budgets though:

City (18/19)

Turnover: £30m

Wages: £30m

Preston (17/18) - but won’t have changed much

Turnover: £12m (36% of ours)

Wages: £14m (less than half of ours)

Brentford (17/18) - but won’t have changed much

Turnover: £13m

Wages: £17m

In my opinion, fantastic we are growing our revenue streams, but there are some massive costs I've not included above too, our amortisation is twice those two, our other operating expenses huge in comparison.  Those two our “punching” much better than us.

[Mr Popodopolous]

30 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Why can't we string two passes together but Brentford can? What's the reason for that and what's the solution?

They play a genuine yet fluid 4-3-3.

Not saying it's the sole reason but certainly fesls fairly conducive.

Their ethos is also quite consistent. Has been for a fair while too. All feeds in, all helps to build a good picture.

[cidered abroad]

I think the OP is a bit in advance of how SL is seeing things at the moment.

I'm sure that he could be thinking that we should be doing better given the spending on players over the last three/four years. Whether he is considering changing the HC, is debatable. A mid table finish could be a factor.

However, a major consideration may be poor season ticket renewals in late March/April. The miserable home form, coupled with a complete lack of entertainment, could lead to a big drop in sales.

I also wonder how LJ will be able to keep such a large squad happy and all pulling in the same direction if we go on another of his never ending "Bust" runs.

We are higher than we've been for a decade, a very good squad, super stadium and facilities, yet I feel completely disillusioned watching City. I cannot be the only one.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Off the pitch, in a number of respects we're in a better place than we've either ever been, or been in a very long time.

[lenred]

4 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

I think the OP is a bit in advance of how SL is seeing things at the moment.

I'm sure that he could be thinking that we should be doing better given the spending on players over the last three/four years. Whether he is considering changing the HC, is debatable. A mid table finish could be a factor.

However, a major consideration may be poor season ticket renewals in late March/April. The miserable home form, coupled with a complete lack of entertainment, could lead to a big drop in sales.

I also wonder how LJ will be able to keep such a large squad happy and all pulling in the same direction if we go on another of his never ending "Bust" runs.

We are higher than we've been for a decade, a very good squad, super stadium and facilities, yet I feel completely disillusioned watching City. I cannot be the only one.

You definitely aren’t. Everyone I go with feels the same - even the died in the wool ‘won’t have a word said against the club ever’ one!  For me it’s much worse football atm than under O ‘Driscoll. Maybe I drunk more back then to numb the pain (!) but the football we are playing now is just turgid, unattractive, predictable and mightily dull. Give me exciting and attacking football as a base level when and where possible and then move up from there. I would much rather that and we were mid table as opposed to ‘keeping in touch’ with the top 6 playing the carp we are atm and haven been for a good while. It needs to change. Not calling for LJ to go at all as it stands but hope to hell some changes in January kickstarts us as a spectacle.  

[DSTAF]

1 hour ago, daored said:

I don’t think Johnson is under any extreme pressure by the club currently. However, if we were to finish a distance behind the play off places I do think questions would be asked. 
 

I think this may be Johnson’s last season at the club. Whether he walks or is pushed I just have a feeling one way or another we have a new manager in place for next season 

Agreed. Play offs minimum or LJ won’t be in charge next season. Whether he’s pushed or walks is a different matter.