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Seneca the Younger

Can you get promoted when you are guaranteed to have a patch of relegation form every season?

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No, never gunna go up under Johnson, f****** clueless when it comes to these losing runs. Worst defence we’ve had for years as well as near enough no attacking threat at all without Eliasson, something needs to change if we are to even challenge for play offs 

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Nope, not a chance, promotion will never happen under LJ unless the losing streaks change to winning streaks, last season i thought the non losing streak meant that he had learned by his mistakes but then the inevitable happened!

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On 26/12/2019 at 17:02, Finley_Smith10 said:

No, never gunna go up under Johnson, f****** clueless when it comes to these losing runs. Worst defence we’ve had for years as well as near enough no attacking threat at all without Eliasson, something needs to change if we are to even challenge for play offs 

I don't understand how our defence is so bad, we have great defenders. What is he doing with them?

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28 minutes ago, Seneca the Younger said:

I don't understand how our defence is so bad, we have great defenders. What is he doing with them?

Familiarity

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It’s just possible to go up with a patch of relation form by scraping into 6th place. Once a team has reached the playoffs anything is possible. With LJ the big problems would come the following season as he is currently  out thought by Championship managers. In the Premier League the managers are, in the main, of a higher standard so he would be even more out of his depth 

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38 minutes ago, Seneca the Younger said:

I don't understand how our defence is so bad, we have great defenders. What is he doing with them?

Its whats in front of them.........

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46 minutes ago, Seneca the Younger said:

I don't understand how our defence is so bad, we have great defenders. What is he doing with them?

Lack of pace centrally, full backs can be vulnerable and a weak midfield. Hardly surprising when we sold Webster and Pack, and DaSilva has been injured. Plus Moore, Dasilva, Perreira, Massengo, Nagy all inexperienced in English football. 

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On 26/12/2019 at 16:59, Seneca the Younger said:

Answers on a postcard

Seem to recall a few years back that Palace were near the bottom at Xmas and came through and got promoted 

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3 minutes ago, The Bard said:

We hammered Huddersfield on St Patricks day 3 years ago and they got up

And weren’t they promoted despite having a negative goal difference, as improbable as that seems?

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15 hours ago, Eastside Moonwalker said:

not in our league, too tight.

Works both ways. Yes, when just a few points separate maybe ten teams, a couple of defeats can see you drop a long way in a short time, but conversely a run of decent form can result in teams coming from nowhere, as per the post above about Palace. The negativity here is, as always, premature and disproportionate. 

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The fact that we can only muster a couple of examples suggests it rarely happens. Certainly for the top two, you need to be consistent, as Leeds discovered to their detriment last season. 

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With the players we have at the moment we are definitely a top 10 team, and without these streaks a top 6 team.

What I can't understand is how we can be so good, Huddersfield, then even better Fulham, then this dross the last 4 games.

Whatever we did, and the tactics applied for Fulham why change it?

I've read before that LJ looks at each game and then try's to pick the team dependent on what formation he thinks they will play? Have they got tall players? Have they got quick players? etc etc.

I think the problem with LJ is he's over thinks things too much.

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15 hours ago, pongo88 said:

It’s just possible to go up with a patch of relation form by scraping into 6th place. Once a team has reached the playoffs anything is possible. With LJ the big problems would come the following season as he is currently  out thought by Championship managers. In the Premier League the managers are, in the main, of a higher standard so he would be even more out of his depth 

I am not sure that he is out thought as much as he over thinks it himself. He always seems more concerned about how the opposition are going to play, so sets up to match that rather than putting out our best team. But then as he doesn’t know our best team, it’s easy to see why he ties himself in knots. If only he knew what our “identity” was....other than always trying to counteract the opposition.

And for evidence that not playing your own game doesn’t work, look at Leicester v Liverpool. Leicester set up to counteract  rather than play their own game and it clearly didn’t work. They may well have lost if they had played their own game but it was made harder because players were being expected to play something different and not natural for them. 

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Looking back over the tables, promoted teams usually suffer fewer than ten defeats in a season. Last time Newcastle were promoted to the Prem they suffered ten defeats, but had 29 victories. In that 07/08 season, WBA were champions with eleven defeats. third placed Hull had thirteen whilst fourth placed City had twelve.

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16 hours ago, Seneca the Younger said:

I don't understand how our defence is so bad, we have great defenders. What is he doing with them?

Had he been able to pick a reasonably settled back 4 of Dasilva, Moore, Kalas and Hunt through the season with Nagy sitting in front, then I'm pretty certain. Our defensive record would be quite different.

The injuries have led to umpteen changes, Williams coming in, Rowe filling in at full back, back 3sand 4s - none of which helps build a strong coherent unit. 

Players coming back from longish term injuries are coming back toa team struggling for form and confidence - hardly the best way to recover match fitness and sharpness. 

 

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On 27/12/2019 at 18:23, Chappers said:

Lack of pace centrally, full backs can be vulnerable and a weak midfield. Hardly surprising when we sold Webster and Pack, and DaSilva has been injured. Plus Moore, Dasilva, Perreira, Massengo, Nagy all inexperienced in English football. 

Was with you until the bit in bold.

Dasilva had a full season, at this level with us, last season.

Moore had game time in his first season with us, albeit not much, but then went out on loan, in England, for most of, if not all of last season. Yes it was at Southend, but it's English football. Also it's hardly like he has just been thrown in at the last minute and looks like a rabbit in the headlights....

The rest, yeah I'll give you that, but it's hardly as if their previous clubs have played Downs level football!!

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It completely depends on how long the run is, and the reasons

top teams often go through really rough patches, but they always have an element of certainty and control. An unflappable way about them that means confidence is not shot to pieces

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On 27/12/2019 at 17:34, Seneca the Younger said:

I don't understand how our defence is so bad, we have great defenders. What is he doing with them?

The same could be said for the whole team

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Yes you can, and there have been several examples in recent times such as Fulham. Many occasions where teams have stuttered or started off badly, likewise many examples of teams that have made blistering starts only to fall apart (Leeds an example). Football is full of absurdities and freakish runs, occurrences and events, and those that haven't noticed such have been watching a different game. 

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19 minutes ago, Taz said:

Was with you until the bit in bold.

Dasilva had a full season, at this level with us, last season.

Moore had game time in his first season with us, albeit not much, but then went out on loan, in England, for most of, if not all of last season. Yes it was at Southend, but it's English football. Also it's hardly like he has just been thrown in at the last minute and looks like a rabbit in the headlights....

The rest, yeah I'll give you that, but it's hardly as if their previous clubs have played Downs level football!!

Dasilva also had a season and a bit and Charlton on loan before us....got player of the season.  They loved him.

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10 minutes ago, dave36 said:

The same could be said for the whole team

My personal view is we are over rating some of our players. My view is that our squad is about the 10th best in the league, so we are about on form

The strikers especially are just not consistent enough

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23 minutes ago, Taz said:

Was with you until the bit in bold.

Dasilva had a full season, at this level with us, last season.

Moore had game time in his first season with us, albeit not much, but then went out on loan, in England, for most of, if not all of last season. Yes it was at Southend, but it's English football. Also it's hardly like he has just been thrown in at the last minute and looks like a rabbit in the headlights....

The rest, yeah I'll give you that, but it's hardly as if their previous clubs have played Downs level football!!

Perhaps with Moore should have put inexperienced at Championship level, and JD has only played 78 games in total. Regardless of previous clubs, HNM is very young and inexperienced, and Nagy has not featured that much for the past 3 years.

I just think we are transitioning, and a year or two off being a very good side. If you look at it, the only new (ie excluding last seasons loanees) outfield player who has made a big impact has been Williams. Nagy looks good, but an injury and a few games where he’s been out-muscled means we have not seen the best of him consistently. I really like Rowe, he’s done a decent enough job out of position, but is limited.

In goal, Bentley has been outstanding and papered over the cracks during our good run.

One other thought is that, if we play just 2 centre backs, and drop Fam for a new nippy striker, we will be very vulnerable at set pieces.

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15 hours ago, Sniper said:

With the players we have at the moment we are definitely a top 10 team, and without these streaks a top 6 team.

What I can't understand is how we can be so good, Huddersfield, then even better Fulham, then this dross the last 4 games.

Whatever we did, and the tactics applied for Fulham why change it?

I've read before that LJ looks at each game and then try's to pick the team dependent on what formation he thinks they will play? Have they got tall players? Have they got quick players? etc etc.

I think the problem with LJ is he's over thinks things too much.

And that mentality is holding us back.

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16 hours ago, mozo said:

The fact that we can only muster a couple of examples suggests it rarely happens. Certainly for the top two, you need to be consistent, as Leeds discovered to their detriment last season. 

Leeds were actually pretty consistent for a good chunk of the season. Sheffield United though then hit great form from Boxing Day onwards...only lost twice on the 2nd half of season and dragged themselves into the title race.

Yet a year ago the only teams considered as realistic top 2 contenders were Norwich, Leeds and WBA. Their form did take a bit of a downturn but only really blew up in the final few games, despite good performance levels.

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