Message to SL

[chinapig]

1 minute ago, Red Exile said:

He blames the players for his own failings. Was chatting to an agent of more than one of the current squad back in the summer - he's known for it.

Forgive me if I hesitate to take an agent's view as objective evidence. I wonder under what circumstances a manager is allowed to criticise a player. If a player makes an error that costs a goal does the manager have to approach his agent for permission to say so?

Personally I am a little tired of modern players avoiding responsibility for their perfomances. 

[lenred]

1 minute ago, Red Exile said:

It's believed to be true by key people...which is all that matters. Got it from the horse's mouth.

Well if true then the horse should be bucking him off out of the club!  Sure we’ve all had managers who have that trait, I certainly have, and it makes for a horrible and unhappy work environment where confidence is non existent and very few enjoy their jobs and just want the manger to F off or make you want to leave. Not good either way!  

[chinapig]

5 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

It's believed to be true by key people...which is all that matters. Got it from the horse's mouth.

It may well be but I don't see that it follows that players are above criticism. Individual errors are by definition the fault of the individuals concerned - see the matchday thread for individuals being identified as at fault for goals - so why is a manager not allowed to say so?

[lenred]

1 minute ago, chinapig said:

It may well be but I don't see that it follows that players are above criticism. Individual errors are by definition the fault of the individuals concerned - see the matchday thread for individuals being identified as at fault for goals - so why is a manager not allowed to say so?

The best managers in any role don’t apportion blame publicly. They have your back in public and then bollock you / have words and go through your mistakes as necessary in private.  In my experience anyway. 

[AppyDAZE]

Full of contradictions in his post match... Spent ages telling how unreliable NE is and how on his game he is brilliant but, but, but...

Then goes on to say individual mistakes at the back cost us.

So, what's that to do with Eliasson?

Also, can you tell me Lee, if you think that JB and AW are brilliant all the time as I'm obviously missing something?

Losing patience.

 

 

[RedRock]

5 minutes ago, lenred said:

The best managers in any role don’t apportion blame publicly. They have your back in public and then bollock you / have words and go through your mistakes as necessary in private.  In my experience anyway. 

Equally, you don’t claim the praise when you win. 

Maybe wrong, but didn’t LJ say in his post match Fulham interview something to the effect the players followed the plan and systems..... I assume that was your plan and systems Lee? Well done Lee, but I assume also that the players were trying to follow your plans and systems that have failed abysmally in the last four matches?

 

Can’t quite decide whether this self praise/deflected criticism is arrogance in his own ability or lack of confidence. Whichever it is, not good for team morale methinks.

 

 

 

 

[lenred]

1 minute ago, RedRock said:

Equally, you don’t claim the praise when you win. 

Maybe wrong, but didn’t LJ say in his post match Fulham interview something to the effect the players followed the plan and systems..... I assume that was your plan and systems Lee? Well done Lee, but I assume also that the players were trying to follow your plans and systems that have failed abysmally in the last four matches?

 

Can’t quite decide whether this self praise/deflected criticism is arrogance in his own ability or lack of confidence. Whichever it is, not good for team morale methinks.

 

 

 

 

Yep he’s very quick to lap the praise up of the crowd when we win but runs off down the tunnel when we lose.  Maybe a small thing but has always bugged me more than it should!  Lack of responsibility basically. 

[Red Exile]

17 minutes ago, lenred said:

The best managers in any role don’t apportion blame publicly. They have your back in public and then bollock you / have words and go through your mistakes as necessary in private.  In my experience anyway. 

You've put it better than I probably could. And that's how I've tried to manage. Occasionally you get plaudits and even awards, but more often you applaud as others get them.

It's definitely a problem for City that LJ is seen as inconsistent, emotional and liable to thrash out and blame others. I'm not often ITK - and when I am I rarely share - but he 100% is seen as having these traits.

Oh...and 100% Lee Johnson is nicknamed 'David Brent' in some football circles.

[chinapig]

7 minutes ago, lenred said:

The best managers in any role don’t apportion blame publicly. They have your back in public and then bollock you / have words and go through your mistakes as necessary in private.  In my experience anyway. 

I tend to agree. Football is different to most walks of life though in that it happens in public view so players and managers are judged in public.

Danny Cowley gave his players an extended public slagging off immediately after we beat them 5-2 and was praised for being a straight talker.

Managers are ultimately accountable but it would be nice if players manned up occasionally to take their share of the blame.

However, I have from time to time heard or read managers commenting that they cannot criticise players even in private as they can't take it! The balance seems to have tilted a bit too far.

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, lenred said:

The best managers in any role don’t apportion blame publicly. They have your back in public and then bollock you / have words and go through your mistakes as necessary in private.  In my experience anyway. 

In the main, yes.  Although quite refreshing earlier this season to see Wilder have a go at Henderson for his mistake versus Liverpool.  He (Wilder) got heavily criticised for it, but his response was “I know the player and how he will react, so bugger off” (paraphrased).

7 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Equally, you don’t claim the praise when you win. 

Maybe wrong, but didn’t LJ say in his post match Fulham interview something to the effect the players followed the plan and systems..... I assume that was your plan and systems Lee? Well done Lee, but I assume also that the players were trying to follow your plans and systems that have failed abysmally in the last four matches?

 

Can’t quite decide whether this self praise/deflected criticism is arrogance in his own ability or lack of confidence. Whichever it is, not good for team morale methinks.

 

 

 

 

Yes, amazing how many times it’s something they’ve worked on specifically in training that week!!!

[Northern Red]

On the one hand he's too nice, on the other he's a mean bully who chucks his players under the bus.

Which is it? Because it can't be both.

[lenred]

9 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

You've put it better than I probably could. And that's how I've tried to manage. Occasionally you get plaudits and even awards, but more often you applaud as others get them.

It's definitely a problem for City that LJ is seen as inconsistent, emotional and liable to thrash out and blame others. I'm not often ITK - and when I am I rarely share - but he 100% is seen as having these traits.

Oh...and 100% Lee Johnson is nicknamed 'David Brent' in some football circles.

It’s this which is key. As @China Pig and @Davefevs have rightly said above there should be times when it’s appropriate on very rare occasions but with LJ it always comes across as petty and petulant as opposed to a calculated comment. 

[AshtonRobin21]

LJ’s interviews are always the same. He talks about “our identity”, But I haven’t the slightest clue as to what our identity is. Or he goes on to single out individuals for errors. 

I saw the other day he mentioned that we haven’t had a proper striker since Kodjia or Tammy. How many transfer windows has he had to put this right?

LJ rarely takes responsibility for his own mistakes and instead passes the blame.

There are a number of factors that are hard to understand from a fans point of view:

- Our most creative player is regularly placed on the bench. Limited to minimal time on the pitch but yet is (mostly) effective each time he is playing.

- Reluctance to drop our bigger names when they are not performing well. Brownhill seems to do no wrong in LJ’s eyes but it’s clear to see he is out of form. Whether he is aware of January interest is up for debate.

- COD obsession, what LJ see’s is beyond me. A player who has 1 good game in every 10. Beats a player and then does a full circle with the ball and ends up with the player to beat again. Finishing is poor and assists are low.

- Home form is woeful. Any side looking to make a promotion push should have a solid foundation with their home form. Yet we look like we set up to play for a draw.

- Teams with smaller budgets overtaking us. Teams like Preston work within a tiny budget but look to be miles ahead of us. LJ and co are given a hefty budget each year, albeit from key player sells but spend it wildly (some good additions but also lots of player who are squad additions). We need more spending on players such a Dasilva, Kalas and Bentley who will be key components of our side.

-Would love to see us go for real quality over quantity each window. LJ often comes out and says that we only want a couple of deals. But come the end of the window we often have 7/8 new faces. Palmer/Szmodics is a prime example of this, why both? Adelakun, Szmodics, Bakinson, Watkins, Rodri all sparingly make our match day squad. 

The wages spent there and the fees could have got us one player of real quality in this league to make the difference. 

Is working for LJ a big enough attraction for the top players in this league? I would argue NO! 

- I get the impression that LJ struggles to manage experienced players who have played to a high standard. The Wilbs interview highlighted an arrogance LJ possesses. Tomlin didn’t work out (can understand that one), seems the likes of Ayling, Freeman, Bryan and Reid all felt that they could achieve more elsewhere. Where it seems that LJ often seems to go down the route of talented youngsters from youth teams of the bigger clubs who are more likely to listen to his every word instead of challenging decisions. Or targets players from lower leagues who haven’t experienced this standard of football before. Only my opinion, anyone else agree?

 

For us to make real progression in this league we need to be looking elsewhere. I’ve seen a few mention Chris Hughton’s name on here, and struggle to think of any reasons not to peruse this. I would be highly confident that if he was to take a job in this division his side would finish higher than us next season. 

 

[redsquirrel]

48 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

On the one hand he's too nice, on the other he's a mean bully who chucks his players under the bus.

Which is it? Because it can't be both.

or two faced??

[RedLionLad]

51 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

On the one hand he's too nice, on the other he's a mean bully who chucks his players under the bus.

Which is it? Because it can't be both.

The same thing with fans who were singing "Johnson says bounce around the ground" just a few weeks ago......who now want him sacked.

[Red Exile]

11 minutes ago, RedLionLad said:

The same thing with fans who were singing "Johnson says bounce around the ground" just a few weeks ago......who now want him sacked.

agreed...I've passed on that under the current Johnson leadership...although I was an enthusiastic 'bouncer' a decade ago. I've also passed on 'when we get promotion...' cos we won't...under LJ...

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 hours ago, RedDave said:

Blimey - have you got a selection of ‘melt down’ images?! This is the third different one I’ve seen you post today - ‘Google’ - ‘Melt down’ - ‘images’ - ‘visit site’ - ‘save image’ ....  very dedicated, good work!

[And Its Smith]

3 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Blimey - have you got a selection of ‘melt down’ images?! This is the third different one I’ve seen you post today - ‘Google’ - ‘Melt down’ - ‘images’ - ‘visit site’ - ‘save image’ ....  very dedicated, good work!

Yes that is how I did it. Might do a toys out of pram one soon

[BS4 on Tour...]

4 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Yes that is how I did it. Might do a toys out of pram one soon

Fair play! It is still just a game - doesn’t matter that much. But to those who think it really matters more than other stuff, I’m totally with them with the view that LJ just ain’t gonna take us any further, but he does seem to be unsackable and in the meantime, mid table in the championship isn’t the worst place to reside ...

[Robin Wood]

3 hours ago, Bicester Red said:

What an excuse

A mild day today

Yet he said certain players are not used to the cold weather ???????!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is what keeps him in the job

GREAT talker

But clueless 

Did he honestly say about the cold weather because if he did he should shot what an absolute tosser 

[And Its Smith]

7 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Fair play! It is still just a game - doesn’t matter that much. But to those who think it really matters more than other stuff, I’m totally with them with the view that LJ just ain’t gonna take us any further, but he does seem to be unsackable and in the meantime, mid table in the championship isn’t the worst place to reside ...

Gonna be bumps in the road. Overall LJ has earned himself more respect and time than he is getting from a lot of fans in my opinion 

[nickolas]

8 minutes ago, Robin Wood said:

Did he honestly say about the cold weather because if he did he should shot what an absolute tosser 

Oh yes he did. Mind you, one of them was Nagy. A hungarian, who suffer colder weather than us no doubt. 
Atleast LJ didnt throw in his usual cringey giggle in his interview. They’ll be due soon though once he realises uncle Steve is looking over his shoulder. 

[Robin Wood]

1 minute ago, nickolas said:

Oh yes he did. Mind you, one of them was Nagy. A hungarian, who suffer colder weather than us no doubt. 
Atleast LJ didnt throw in his usual cringey giggle in his interview. They’ll be due soon though once he realises uncle Steve is looking over his shoulder. 

Jesus what an inspiration Lee must be firing the troops up for battle against injury ravaged Charlton with there strike force worth 400k against our 15 million pound defence what a tosser

[nickolas]

1 minute ago, Robin Wood said:

Jesus what an inspiration Lee must be firing the troops up for battle against injury ravaged Charlton with there strike force worth 400k against our 15 million pound defence what a tosser

Im not sure we are there yet but when do we roll out the ‘theyre clearly not playing for him’ lines?

I’m going for Sunday at H/T when we are behind!!

[Superjack]

4 hours ago, ProfitInMyPocket said:

Even if we went on another record breaking run of losses and he finally had to get rid of his little mate, we all know full well he would give the job to Macca and Holden.

Dont trust SL to get a manager in as he wouldn't want someone who wouldn't toe the Bristol Sport line.

Sadly true.

[Superjack]

8 minutes ago, nickolas said:

Im not sure we are there yet but when do we roll out the ‘theyre clearly not playing for him’ lines?

I’m going for Sunday at H/T when we are behind!!

They're clearly not playing for him.

 

Just thought I'd speed things up...

[Dredd]

Personally I don’t think it’s time to pull the trigger on LJ yet, but there is a concern listening to interviews, podcasts and the like that there is a real boys club with LJ MA and JL. Not a bad thing at all when things are going well but when it comes to making the big decisions will that buy LJ more time than maybe he should have?

[Bristol Oil Services]

49 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

and in the meantime, mid table in the championship isn’t the worst place to reside ...

Agreed, although:

1. Midtable is always preferable when you move up in to it, rather than drop down in to it.

2. The occasional rollicking good home performance along the way, with thrills, spills, goals, shots and action can lighten a midtable campaign (I reckon we have had one this season).

3. Talk of much loftier ambitions leaves one feeling slightly disappointed with a midtable position (and another slide after early promise).

4. The paucity or quality of this season's Championship suggests a midtable place for us will be a missed opportunity (of winning a play off place, and a shot at promotion), given where we are at currently as a club, finishing 8th last season, our resources etc

[Superjack]

SL doesn't give a **** what you think.

He puts the money in. So it's his club.

Apparently.

[ScottishRed]

3 hours ago, chinapig said:

Forgive me if I hesitate to take an agent's view as objective evidence. I wonder under what circumstances a manager is allowed to criticise a player. If a player makes an error that costs a goal does the manager have to approach his agent for permission to say so?

Personally I am a little tired of modern players avoiding responsibility for their perfomances. 

I agree with your last line.However, I do not believe Lee is a leader of men, I suspect he is a good coach, but not a manger.

Ultimately, I don’t believe DH and JM are either, we need a strong football man to take us forward but the owner and son ‘infrastructure ‘ don’t want that -  that is our problem -  which is NOT going to change.