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hollydog

Brownhill

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1 minute ago, just like watching brazil said:

Every player has had shite 4 games 

Yep. 
 

however if Brownhill is playing we play. I think right now the faster he moves for decent money the better    

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9 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Seems to be a lot of people on here today who "seem to remember being shot down". How are they managing to post?

:laugh:! Yeah shot down means more than one person disagreed. 
 

was the Red Barron a City fan? 

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15 minutes ago, ohhhshauntaylor said:

I remember being shot down for saying how Pack was always taking the flack for him. 
Give me Pack over Nagy Brownhill every day of the week. 

Oh no please not Pack

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16 minutes ago, 50cal said:

Hope so

Me too. 
 

Will be robbing whoever takes him of millions. So, so overrated just because he scores a couple of nice looking long rangers a season. 

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49 minutes ago, winsaw said:

Should be stripped of the captain's armband, not a leader, just goes missing evertime things start to go wrong,

100%.  Laughable he's captain with both Smith and Williams in the squad. 

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54 minutes ago, Red Army 87 said:

Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s going in Jan. Certainly not showing the desire to change things at the moment. 

If thats the case, wish they'd just bloody drop him. Same thing happened with Webster. He aint that great anyway

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1 hour ago, ohhhshauntaylor said:

I remember being shot down for saying how Pack was always taking the flack for him. 
Give me Pack over Nagy Brownhill every day of the week. 

Nice to see you back on your feet

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55 minutes ago, just like watching brazil said:

Every player has had shite 4 games 

Yep, there have been some shockers out there, but ultimately most of them have been below par.

46 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Oh no please not Pack

Pack was a very good defensive midfielder, and protected the 2 CBs very well, and massively underrated in this aspect.  Unfortunately what happened over time was that with the ball the team suffered, but mate no bones about it, Pack in front of Kalas and Williams means we don’t concede the type of goals we concede today.....having said that we probably don’t go 2-1 up either 😂😂😂

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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, there have been some shockers out there, but ultimately most of them have been below par.

Pack was a very good defensive midfielder, and protected the 2 CBs very well, and massively underrated in this aspect.  Unfortunately what happened over time was that with the ball the team suffered, but mate no bones about it, Pack in front of Kalas and Williams means we don’t concede the type of goals we concede today.....having said that we probably don’t go 2-1 up either 😂😂😂

Never really seen that in Pack to be honest.

I thought Pack was poor at protecting our defence. He was so slow at closing down, and once a player got past him with the ball, he was out of the game. Korey far better at this role. I never really thought Pack was a good holder, more better with a Korey doing the dirty work alongside him, or Webster in that WBA game for example.

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12 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Never really seen that in Pack to be honest.

I thought Pack was poor at protecting our defence. He was so slow at closing down, and once a player got past him with the ball, he was out of the game. Korey far better at this role. I never really thought Pack was a good holder, more better with a Korey doing the dirty work alongside him, or Webster in that WBA game for example.

It’s a positional / anticipation thing JD.  Balls didn’t reach opposition strikers because there was no route to them.  He made Kalas and Webster better (they weren’t bad in their own right, but Pack protected them from being exposed).

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32 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, there have been some shockers out there, but ultimately most of them have been below par.

Pack was a very good defensive midfielder, and protected the 2 CBs very well, and massively underrated in this aspect.  Unfortunately what happened over time was that with the ball the team suffered, but mate no bones about it, Pack in front of Kalas and Williams means we don’t concede the type of goals we concede today.....having said that we probably don’t go 2-1 up either 😂😂😂

We do concede those goals.....the first one is a long ball over the top that bently misjudged.....the second one lyle Taylor wins it in the air and kalas basically losess his footing and heads it into the Charlton player path...

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1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

Never really seen that in Pack to be honest.

I thought Pack was poor at protecting our defence. He was so slow at closing down, and once a player got past him with the ball, he was out of the game. Korey far better at this role. I never really thought Pack was a good holder, more better with a Korey doing the dirty work alongside him, or Webster in that WBA game for example.

Korey better than pack in that role? Not in a million years 

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1 minute ago, Rob k said:

Korey better than pack in that role? Not in a million years 

Pack very slow off the mark and doesn't read the danger. Positionally good with that experience he has - as is Smith. But the rest of what he needs to do as a defensive midfielder is poor imo. And he hasn't the legs to cover much ground either. He is so easy to take on, most games picking up a yellow because someone has beaten him and he's had to take them out as he can't tackle them. When blocking a shot he can't get close enough. He's so slow.

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7 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Pack very slow off the mark and doesn't read the danger. Positionally good with that experience he has - as is Smith. But the rest of what he needs to do as a defensive midfielder is poor imo. And he hasn't the legs to cover much ground either. He is so easy to take on, most games picking up a yellow because someone has beaten him and he's had to take them out as he can't tackle them. When blocking a shot he can't get close enough. He's so slow.

Fair enough Jon, we will have to agree to disagree on this one. 

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8 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Pack very slow off the mark and doesn't read the danger. Positionally good with that experience he has - as is Smith. But the rest of what he needs to do as a defensive midfielder is poor imo. And he hasn't the legs to cover much ground either. He is so easy to take on, most games picking up a yellow because someone has beaten him and he's had to take them out as he can't tackle them. When blocking a shot he can't get close enough. He's so slow.

I’ll debate this with you all night 😉

I go back to Millwall (h), think it was early 17/18 season, where I first saw Pack’s value as a sitting midfielder.  Was a dull 0-0, but Pack’s positioning in front of Wright and Baker, against Morison and Gregory meant we looked as solid as I’d seen under LJ at that time (no Flint, still having his head turned!).  LJ then takes off Pack for O’Neil (who I rated) just after the hour.  Suddenly they wreak havoc and only 2/3 Fielding saves help us avoid defeat.  The gap between our midfield and back 4 allows balls to be dropped into Morison, and with Gregory and sub Tom Eliot running off him it looked a v.different game.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Pack was at his best last season, and £4m is a lot for a player when you want to change the way you play.

Smith is not a “sit in front of the back 4 player”, he’s a wasp, here, there everywhere.  They are two very different midfielders.

Go back and look at Man City games....4141 (or even 4150!!!), Pack the central DM, never moving, always trying to make them go wide, Smith buzzing around with support from Pato, etc.

Re Pack’s yellows, yes, some silly ones, but some were taking them for the team, on the counter.

He wasn’t perfect, but he was a bloody good DM. Eh @Harry?

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

It’s a positional / anticipation thing JD.  Balls didn’t reach opposition strikers because there was no route to them.  He made Kalas and Webster better (they weren’t bad in their own right, but Pack protected them from being exposed).

I rarely disagree with you, but our Midfield with Pack in was just as prone to letting the opposition run through them like a hot knife through butter, Bolton away last year when Ameobi sauntered through the entire midfield without even breaking sweat to win the game. 

However that said I am willing now to accept that maybe that was nothing to do with Pack and more to do with the coaching. As all of our other midfielders do it as well. 

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12 minutes ago, Spud55 said:

I rarely disagree with you, but our Midfield with Pack in was just as prone to letting the opposition run through them like a hot knife through butter, Bolton away last year when Ameobi sauntered through the entire midfield without even breaking sweat to win the game. 

However that said I am willing now to accept that maybe that was nothing to do with Pack and more to do with the coaching. As all of our other midfielders do it as well. 

Yes, definitely not perfect.  Although the Ameobi example was from a breakaway (our corner), and Bryan didn’t take the opportunity to take him down and take the yellow.

I was thinking more those teams that try to get it into the front pair quickly.  Pack was a great shield.

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8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Yes, definitely not perfect.  Although the Ameobi example was from a breakaway (our corner), and Bryan didn’t take the opportunity to take him down and take the yellow.

I was thinking more those teams that try to get it into the front pair quickly.  Pack was a great shield.

That's fair, we massively miss Packs dominance in the air as well to be honest as he was a big bugger. 

I still believe that we have the players to improve our midfield from when we had Pack in the side as I feel both Nagy and Massengo are upgrades on him in most areas. But they need like the defence a run of games with the same personnel and the same system to build an understanding as at the moment you can't expect any continuity of performance when everything is changing week in and week out. 

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5 hours ago, Spud55 said:

That's fair, we massively miss Packs dominance in the air as well to be honest as he was a big bugger. 

I still believe that we have the players to improve our midfield from when we had Pack in the side as I feel both Nagy and Massengo are upgrades on him in most areas. But they need like the defence a run of games with the same personnel and the same system to build an understanding as at the moment you can't expect any continuity of performance when everything is changing week in and week out. 

In a nutshell

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