Match Report: Johnson's latest collapse may be fatal

[Drew Peacock]

16 minutes ago, deadredfred said:

Perhaps the assumption from within football is that his additional methods (drones, A&E visits, DNA, whatever) are on top of already sound and well grounded basic coaching skill set. At this point, they become the fine margins, the additional 1%’s here and there that LJ seems so keen to eek out. Which when your Guardiola’s and Klopp’s find these little areas for improvement, (and I think LJ does consider himself closer to these two than your Warnocks or Wilders for example), they can make the difference between 1 point and 3. 
 

I do wonder why, if LJ is recognised as such a great up and coming coach, we never see him connected with vacancies, never seem to have approaches for him.

Sure he appears in press articles about his coaching methods and so on, but publishers are usually pretty keen for any articles and the BCFC media department should be able to get these placed. It lifts his and the club's profile but at the end of the day nobody seems to be interested in our up and coming coach. Why?

[Son of Fred]

1 hour ago, Olé said:

what then is the great distraction?

Lee himself.

[glen humphries]

2 minutes ago, Drew Peacock said:

I do wonder why, if LJ is recognised as such a great up and coming coach, we never see him connected with vacancies, never seem to have approaches for him.

Sure he appears in press articles about his coaching methods and so on, but publishers are usually pretty keen for any articles and the BCFC media department should be able to get these placed. It lifts his and the club's profile but at the end of the day nobody seems to be interested in our up and coming coach. Why?

Because he’s achieved nothing, I think it’s obvious lees very good at talking himself up , he’s the David Brent of managers.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, glen humphries said:

We don’t have a problem scoring, we do have a problem defending.

It's not as simple as forwards attack and defenders defend. I wonder if a new manager came in and saw we have got Kalas, Williams, Moore, Baker and Wright to choose from at centre back, with Bentley or Maenpaa in goal, they'd most probably think wow I'm spoilt for choice here. 

We've seen it before. A new manager comes in to a side and sorts out a leaky defence. It's not always as simple as the quality of players.

[glen humphries]

1 minute ago, JonDolman said:

It's not as simple as forwards attack and defenders defend. I wonder if a new manager came in and saw we have got Kalas, Williams, Moore, Baker and Wright to choose from at centre back, with Bentley or Maenpaa in goal, they'd most probably think wow I'm spoilt for choice here. 

We've seen it before. A new manager comes in to a side and sorts out a leaky defence. It's not always as simple as the quality of players.

We need a new manager to sort out our leaky defence then because like you’ve just pointed out with those players why are we letting so many in

[Allwaysred]

4 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

We have some of the better championship defenders, a quality goalie and many midfielders to choose from. So like you say it's LJs instructions /coaching that are the problem.

You have to question it massively and I question some of his players he's brought in as their simply not good enough... our midfield is the big worry for me as AN & Massengo are to light weight and offer very little apart from running most of it aimless and win  nothing airel, Brownhill is no leader and blows cold more than hot and KP has to be the worst bit of buisness we did in the summer to the point LJ himself hasn't included him now in several matches and only deems him fit enough for 20mins run outs says it all. Pressure is on LJ & Co nothing less than 3pts next home game will do.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, glen humphries said:

We need a new manager to sort out our leaky defence then because like you’ve just pointed out with those players why are we letting so many in

I imagine if LJ sorted out our defence then we would probably score a lot less. So that's my point. He doesn't have the right balance.

We either score goals but concede or maybe he could get us to concede less but I bet we stop scoring so many. Like Cardiff and Sheffield Wednesday games. Mainly solid enough defensively, but only score one in one game and zero in the other.

If we had a better forward line then we could maybe be more solid and still score goals as we would have the great forwards with better movement, pace or ability to create their own chances, which we certainly don't have at the moment.

[Prinny]

Some of the speculation on this thread is wild. LJ is now coaching the talent out of the players, and he's lost the dressing room. Feels baseless to me. Every time there's pressure on a manager people start putting newspaper clippings on corkboards and linking them with string. People trying to tie in Luke Williams to the great grand conspiracy SMH.

How about a few simpler reasons. Ones that we can easily identify and see and that have track records.

1) Foreign players often struggle during their first season in English football. They especially struggle over Christmas and new year. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that Massengo, Nagy, Perreira might just be getting used to the rigours of the championship like so many have done before? Perhaps they're all homesick...

On top of, and adding to that.

2) We have a small team, a physically weak team, and are getting beaten up and bullied by more physical teams in colder weather. Let's go the lets's say acclimatised players that surround them. Rowe, Moore, Hunt, Brownhill, O'Dowda, Eliasson. Where's the Marvin Elliott type? Where's the Bradley Orr? Every championship standard player is a compromise. You compromise speed, power, technique, availability, aggression, something, or they wouldn't be at this level for long. We have assembled a team that compromises speed and physicality while being good at technique, discipline and character. So in warmer weather, against teams that pass more, we do better, while we dip right here and right now.

3) Our two strikers are actually not very good in a combination. They do not hold the ball up, they do not run in behind, their finishing is very inconsistent. So if you're not a threat in behind, and you can't hold the ball up long enough to bring others into play... well the rest of the team gets pressed, and rushed and the quality of delivery goes down. Reading on here that we score goals so up front isn't a problem... yikes. Again understand with the quality of players we have that the more we score the more we concede. It really does work like the Attacking to Defensive football manager team tactics slider. In order to score goals, because we miss so many chances we play super open. When we set up the other way, we create next to nothing. But notice we set up that way, and in each game players missed the chances to go ahead.

4) Players coming back to the mean. Taylor Moore. You know, the guy who loses concentration, the guy who gets out muscled. It showed up again. Tommy Rowe. Back up left back. Good squad player. Can cover in a pinch. Now it's showing. Ashley Williams. Why didn't he have a club? Same for Rodri. As much as you can paper over the cracks with some players, they eventually get found out. Think LJ can coach players faster than teams can work them out? I don't think so. We're all hyped about Massengo, but there's a reason he's at Bristol City.

5) Kalas looks like he's been rushed back to me. Do you think he's Tony Dinning?  Or you think he's come back too early? We've seen Bailey Wright... so.. yeah  desperate times with that one.

I think some people are doing an LJ, and over complicating things. Square excuses in round problems.

By the way, a lot of the problems I'm pointing out are caused by how we've assembled the squad, and the transfer decisions we've made. LJ's a part of that. I'm just not going to guess at turmoil behind the scene when I can see problems with the players directly in front of me. So why am  I not calling for LJ's head? Because he's identified the same problems I have. And I believe the problems go away as we move further into the new year. So I think it's better he be given the CHANCE to fix the issues in January before firing him. We should be encouraged by the end of the season, or he should go. But it makes sense to keep him as we're only a few players away from seeing if the DNA he's after works, or it doesn't and we have to tear it all down with a new manager.

TLDR We're small, we're inexperienced, we lack quality in depth. We really miss Adam Webster, we really miss Benik Afobe. That's why we're not that great. Not Tin Hat conspiracy theories about coaching, personalities and under 23 managers.

[Shtanley]

3 mistakes for their three goals. I’ve been calling for Moore but boy did he turn into Joe Bryan for that goal. 
 

Bentley coming out too slow again vs Bonne. Kalas was solid I thought but not good for the goal. 
 

wga
 

[CityCiderEd]

LJ has been here 4 years and apart from the brilliant high press quick passing 4 or 5 months we've seen very little like it since. It would be great if after some of the awful defeats we have suffered that he would just put his hands up and admit that HE was to blame. His soundbites are getting tedious now and calling players out is never a sign of good man management. He has a job where everything is in place to push on,owner's backing,stadium and fantastic training facilities. If we miss out on the play offs again  he keeps his job and the same thing happens next season............groundhog day. Something is seriously wrong at the moment as decent players some of whom are internationals don't suddenly become pub players.

[spudski]

I boils my piss when LJ talks about individual errors with the defence. This match blaming TM for the winner.

How about looking further up the pitch in the build up.

The lethargic pressing, the absolute half heartedness to stop the cross into the box by DaSilva.

How dare he keep blaming individual errors.

Our defence is bombarded with balls into the box. We allow so many goal scoring opportunities.

These opportunities arise from build up play outside the box. Who's busting a nut to press, who's busting a nut to stop the ball into the box or the shot from outside the box?

Why let the ball into the box in the first place and expect defenders to make last ditch clearances or tackles in front of goal?

Eventually they will score, because we have overworked defenders.

Sort it out further up the field and these opportunities won't arise.

[hollydog]

3 hours ago, Dottie said:

Spot on. They’re over coached to the point that when the plan doesn’t work, they’re unable to work out what to do for themselves. How many times have we brought players in because of their natural ability only to coach it out of them? Massengo  is a perfect example, so much talent but not being able to play his natural game which is what we paid money for & you can see the confidence draining out of him & others the same. 

This is what I am observing. They are coached to play in a particular way to the point where there is no spontaneity. How many times do we play the ball sideways even when there is space to run into. The players are mentally shackled and this is why we are so dull to watch. 

We also start every game being more worried about the opposition Thanjavur playing our own game and inevitably never control the midfield. WBA away the worst example - we had surrendered before we kicked off. Sheffield Wednesday wasn’t much different. 

The fact that our most creative player doesn’t get a start sums it up. 

[Allwaysred]

8 minutes ago, Prinny said:

Some of the speculation on this thread is wild. LJ is now coaching the talent out of the players, and he's lost the dressing room. Feels baseless to me. Every time there's pressure on a manager people start putting newspaper clippings on corkboards and linking them with string. People trying to tie in Luke Williams to the great grand conspiracy SMH.

How about a few simpler reasons. Ones that we can easily identify and see and that have track records.

1) Foreign players often struggle during their first season in English football. They especially struggle over Christmas and new year. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that Massengo, Nagy, Perreira might just be getting used to the rigours of the championship like so many have done before? Perhaps they're all homesick...

On top of, and adding to that.

2) We have a small team, a physically weak team, and are getting beaten up and bullied by more physical teams in colder weather. Let's go the lets's say acclimatised players that surround them. Rowe, Moore, Hunt, Brownhill, O'Dowda, Eliasson. Where's the Marvin Elliott type? Where's the Bradley Orr? Every championship standard player is a compromise. You compromise speed, power, technique, availability, aggression, something, or they wouldn't be at this level for long. We have assembled a team that compromises speed and physicality while being good at technique, discipline and character. So in warmer weather, against teams that pass more, we do better, while we dip right here and right now.

3) Our two strikers are actually not very good in a combination. They do not hold the ball up, they do not run in behind, their finishing is very inconsistent. So if you're not a threat in behind, and you can't hold the ball up long enough to bring others into play... well the rest of the team gets pressed, and rushed and the quality of delivery goes down. Reading on here that we score goals so up front isn't a problem... yikes. Again understand with the quality of players we have that the more we score the more we concede. It really does work like the Attacking to Defensive football manager team tactics slider. In order to score goals, because we miss so many chances we play super open. When we set up the other way, we create next to nothing. But notice we set up that way, and in each game players missed the chances to go ahead.

4) Players coming back to the mean. Taylor Moore. You know, the guy who loses concentration, the guy who gets out muscled. It showed up again. Tommy Rowe. Back up left back. Good squad player. Can cover in a pinch. Now it's showing. Ashley Williams. Why didn't he have a club? Same for Rodri. As much as you can paper over the cracks with some players, they eventually get found out. Think LJ can coach players faster than teams can work them out? I don't think so. We're all hyped about Massengo, but there's a reason he's at Bristol City.

5) Kalas looks like he's been rushed back to me. Do you think he's Tony Dinning?  Or you think he's come back too early? We've seen Bailey Wright... so.. yeah  desperate times with that one.

I think some people are doing an LJ, and over complicating things. Square excuses in round problems.

By the way, a lot of the problems I'm pointing out are caused by how we've assembled the squad, and the transfer decisions we've made. LJ's a part of that. I'm just not going to guess at turmoil behind the scene when I can see problems with the players directly in front of me. So why am  I not calling for LJ's head? Because he's identified the same problems I have. And I believe the problems go away as we move further into the new year. So I think it's better he be given the CHANCE to fix the issues in January before firing him. We should be encouraged by the end of the season, or he should go. But it makes sense to keep him as we're only a few players away from seeing if the DNA he's after works, or it doesn't and we have to tear it all down with a new manager.

TLDR We're small, we're inexperienced, we lack quality in depth. We really miss Adam Webster, we really miss Benik Afobe. That's why we're not that great. Not Tin Hat conspiracy theories about coaching, personalities and under 23 managers.

Why the he'll would you trust LJ with any money in January?? He hasn't been able to identify the 4 key players we've needed in the last 2 summer windows he's had instead he's brought in players who have never featured or who simply don't fit and that lies with LJ. 

[CityCiderEd]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

These opportunities arise from build up play outside the box. Who's busting a nut to press, who's busting a nut to stop the ball into the box or the shot from outside the box?

The answer surprisingly is no one. We just seem to give up space allowing the opposition to knock balls into the box. Whatever his coaching methods he is currently using is leaving us wide open.

[cityloyal473]

28 minutes ago, Drew Peacock said:

I do wonder why, if LJ is recognised as such a great up and coming coach, we never see him connected with vacancies, never seem to have approaches for him.

Sure he appears in press articles about his coaching methods and so on, but publishers are usually pretty keen for any articles and the BCFC media department should be able to get these placed. It lifts his and the club's profile but at the end of the day nobody seems to be interested in our up and coming coach. Why?

Thought exactly the same thing this morning.  For all the plaudits he has had (cup run and attacking football), when has any other club ever been seriously interested in taking him on? And when he leaves, as he will, I bet it's not to a club on the up or in a better position than City. 

[RedRock]

9 minutes ago, Prinny said:

Some of the speculation on this thread is wild. LJ is now coaching the talent out of the players, and he's lost the dressing room. Feels baseless to me. Every time there's pressure on a manager people start putting newspaper clippings on corkboards and linking them with string. People trying to tie in Luke Williams to the great grand conspiracy SMH.

How about a few simpler reasons. Ones that we can easily identify and see and that have track records.

1) Foreign players often struggle during their first season in English football. They especially struggle over Christmas and new year. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that Massengo, Nagy, Perreira might just be getting used to the rigours of the championship like so many have done before? Perhaps they're all homesick...

On top of, and adding to that.

2) We have a small team, a physically weak team, and are getting beaten up and bullied by more physical teams in colder weather. Let's go the lets's say acclimatised players that surround them. Rowe, Moore, Hunt, Brownhill, O'Dowda, Eliasson. Where's the Marvin Elliott type? Where's the Bradley Orr? Every championship standard player is a compromise. You compromise speed, power, technique, availability, aggression, something, or they wouldn't be at this level for long. We have assembled a team that compromises speed and physicality while being good at technique, discipline and character. So in warmer weather, against teams that pass more, we do better, while we dip right here and right now.

3) Our two strikers are actually not very good in a combination. They do not hold the ball up, they do not run in behind, their finishing is very inconsistent. So if you're not a threat in behind, and you can't hold the ball up long enough to bring others into play... well the rest of the team gets pressed, and rushed and the quality of delivery goes down. Reading on here that we score goals so up front isn't a problem... yikes. Again understand with the quality of players we have that the more we score the more we concede. It really does work like the Attacking to Defensive football manager team tactics slider. In order to score goals, because we miss so many chances we play super open. When we set up the other way, we create next to nothing. But notice we set up that way, and in each game players missed the chances to go ahead.

4) Players coming back to the mean. Taylor Moore. You know, the guy who loses concentration, the guy who gets out muscled. It showed up again. Tommy Rowe. Back up left back. Good squad player. Can cover in a pinch. Now it's showing. Ashley Williams. Why didn't he have a club? Same for Rodri. As much as you can paper over the cracks with some players, they eventually get found out. Think LJ can coach players faster than teams can work them out? I don't think so. We're all hyped about Massengo, but there's a reason he's at Bristol City.

5) Kalas looks like he's been rushed back to me. Do you think he's Tony Dinning?  Or you think he's come back too early? We've seen Bailey Wright... so.. yeah  desperate times with that one.

I think some people are doing an LJ, and over complicating things. Square excuses in round problems.

By the way, a lot of the problems I'm pointing out are caused by how we've assembled the squad, and the transfer decisions we've made. LJ's a part of that. I'm just not going to guess at turmoil behind the scene when I can see problems with the players directly in front of me. So why am  I not calling for LJ's head? Because he's identified the same problems I have. And I believe the problems go away as we move further into the new year. So I think it's better he be given the CHANCE to fix the issues in January before firing him. We should be encouraged by the end of the season, or he should go. But it makes sense to keep him as we're only a few players away from seeing if the DNA he's after works, or it doesn't and we have to tear it all down with a new manager.

TLDR We're small, we're inexperienced, we lack quality in depth. We really miss Adam Webster, we really miss Benik Afobe. That's why we're not that great. Not Tin Hat conspiracy theories about coaching, personalities and under 23 managers.

Agree. Except the bit about LJ. He created the problems, is slow in recognising the problems he’s created and even slower fixing them. 

Most of them are recognised by people who have no FA coaching badges, do not spend their time at NHS Hospital A&Es learning about crisis management, have no drones or grass measuring devices and don’t get paid ££££’s per week. 

Leadership, quality not quantity, physicality..... blindingly obviously attributes of a Championship squad... yet it’s taken him 4 years to realise that!!!! Truly alarming. 

 

[Abingdon Red]

6 minutes ago, spudski said:

I boils my piss when LJ talks about individual errors with the defence. This match blaming TM for the winner.

How about looking further up the pitch in the build up.

The lethargic pressing, the absolute half heartedness to stop the cross into the box by DaSilva.

How dare he keep blaming individual errors.

Our defence is bombarded with balls into the box. We allow so many goal scoring opportunities.

These opportunities arise from build up play outside the box. Who's busting a nut to press, who's busting a nut to stop the ball into the box or the shot from outside the box?

Why let the ball into the box in the first place and expect defenders to make last ditch clearances or tackles in front of goal?

Eventually they will score, because we have overworked defenders.

Sort it out further up the field and these opportunities won't arise.

Agreed, I thought it was a bit odd to be blaming Taylor Moore for that goal when he's been forced to chase back because Fammy (I think) lost possession very easily in Charlton's half.

[cityloyal473]

13 minutes ago, Prinny said:

Some of the speculation on this thread is wild. LJ is now coaching the talent out of the players, and he's lost the dressing room. Feels baseless to me. Every time there's pressure on a manager people start putting newspaper clippings on corkboards and linking them with string. People trying to tie in Luke Williams to the great grand conspiracy SMH.

How about a few simpler reasons. Ones that we can easily identify and see and that have track records.

1) Foreign players often struggle during their first season in English football. They especially struggle over Christmas and new year. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that Massengo, Nagy, Perreira might just be getting used to the rigours of the championship like so many have done before? Perhaps they're all homesick...

On top of, and adding to that.

2) We have a small team, a physically weak team, and are getting beaten up and bullied by more physical teams in colder weather. Let's go the lets's say acclimatised players that surround them. Rowe, Moore, Hunt, Brownhill, O'Dowda, Eliasson. Where's the Marvin Elliott type? Where's the Bradley Orr? Every championship standard player is a compromise. You compromise speed, power, technique, availability, aggression, something, or they wouldn't be at this level for long. We have assembled a team that compromises speed and physicality while being good at technique, discipline and character. So in warmer weather, against teams that pass more, we do better, while we dip right here and right now.

3) Our two strikers are actually not very good in a combination. They do not hold the ball up, they do not run in behind, their finishing is very inconsistent. So if you're not a threat in behind, and you can't hold the ball up long enough to bring others into play... well the rest of the team gets pressed, and rushed and the quality of delivery goes down. Reading on here that we score goals so up front isn't a problem... yikes. Again understand with the quality of players we have that the more we score the more we concede. It really does work like the Attacking to Defensive football manager team tactics slider. In order to score goals, because we miss so many chances we play super open. When we set up the other way, we create next to nothing. But notice we set up that way, and in each game players missed the chances to go ahead.

4) Players coming back to the mean. Taylor Moore. You know, the guy who loses concentration, the guy who gets out muscled. It showed up again. Tommy Rowe. Back up left back. Good squad player. Can cover in a pinch. Now it's showing. Ashley Williams. Why didn't he have a club? Same for Rodri. As much as you can paper over the cracks with some players, they eventually get found out. Think LJ can coach players faster than teams can work them out? I don't think so. We're all hyped about Massengo, but there's a reason he's at Bristol City.

5) Kalas looks like he's been rushed back to me. Do you think he's Tony Dinning?  Or you think he's come back too early? We've seen Bailey Wright... so.. yeah  desperate times with that one.

I think some people are doing an LJ, and over complicating things. Square excuses in round problems.

By the way, a lot of the problems I'm pointing out are caused by how we've assembled the squad, and the transfer decisions we've made. LJ's a part of that. I'm just not going to guess at turmoil behind the scene when I can see problems with the players directly in front of me. So why am  I not calling for LJ's head? Because he's identified the same problems I have. And I believe the problems go away as we move further into the new year. So I think it's better he be given the CHANCE to fix the issues in January before firing him. We should be encouraged by the end of the season, or he should go. But it makes sense to keep him as we're only a few players away from seeing if the DNA he's after works, or it doesn't and we have to tear it all down with a new manager.

TLDR We're small, we're inexperienced, we lack quality in depth. We really miss Adam Webster, we really miss Benik Afobe. That's why we're not that great. Not Tin Hat conspiracy theories about coaching, personalities and under 23 managers.

This is LJs team.  He built it, he trains it.  No excuses.  The problem areas have been identifiable to anyone with eyes for two seasons - what has LJ done about it?  Bought gash or where he has bought well, took all the creativity out of them.  His team - he lives or dies by it. 

[Nogbad the Bad]

8 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said:

Thought exactly the same thing this morning.  For all the plaudits he has had (cup run and attacking football), when has any other club ever been seriously interested in taking him on? And when he leaves, as he will, I bet it's not to a club on the up or in a better position than City. 

He'll probably be at retirement age so not a problem for him.

[Chappers]

Not sure why anyone is surprised, if you look at it honestly, in the summer we replaced a Webster with Moore, Pack with two players who had not played much the last 3 years and had no Championship experience, and Afobe is a big loss. We seem to have a choice between the 3 centre backs or Nic, and with a less physical midfield it’s either a dodgy defence or no creativity. 
A team in transition is the positive way to look at it.

[chinapig]

58 minutes ago, deadredfred said:

Perhaps the assumption from within football is that his additional methods (drones, A&E visits, DNA, whatever) are on top of already sound and well grounded basic coaching skill set. At this point, they become the fine margins, the additional 1%’s here and there that LJ seems so keen to eek out. Which when your Guardiola’s and Klopp’s find these little areas for improvement, (and I think LJ does consider himself closer to these two than your Warnocks or Wilders for example), they can make the difference between 1 point and 3. 
 

I have no football coaching experience whatsoever, but I have managed people. My role as manager was to ensure that at any given moment, everyone working within my team knew exactly what they were doing, had the tools to do it, and were clear on how their role contributed to the end goal. Basics really. What I would assume common sense, and the kind of approach I expect a Warnock side (agsin, for example) to have. No it’s not pretty when applied to football, but players well drilled in basics.

Similarly, I’ve had managers who had the fanciest self made spreadsheets to create reports on progress and productivity but had no skills whatsoever in man management or team leading, so confusion reigned and bluntly, people just weren’t clear on what’s required. 
 

someone made a great point re the players listening to LJ everyday. I can’t cope with his interviews, can’t imagine what it’s like day in, day out. 

Wilder should not be paired with Warnock as they are very different coaches.

With his gruff northern exterior and occasional "the game's gone" style moaning he can seem a bit old school but he is innovative - though I understand that Alan Knill deserves a bigger share of the credit than he gets. Hence he was voted LMA coach of the year by his peers.

What he has done over a period of time is decide on a style of play, recruit players to suit it and relentlessly drill them with repetitive training.

This is very different from our approach, which is to keep signing, developing and selling to improve the financial health of the club. In its own terms it is a success but the playing side is secondary as the constant churn is not conducive to a sustained playing strategy.

[Bristol Rob]

Honestly think he has made a relatively simple game far too complicated.

You can look back on this (his tactics post the Man U win) and think, 'wow, not only had he done his homework, but he had a plan' - or you can think, 'wow - I wonder how many scenarios they rehearsed, give it was a cup game and who knew what sort of side Utd would play'.

Over coaching has been mentioned, and it wouldn't surprise me if there is a degree of that, but equally overly complicated roles for players who probably have more than enough faith in their own abilities to not need 30 different options depending on if the opposition physios are wearing moulded studs or not.

 

[hollydog]

33 minutes ago, Prinny said:

Some of the speculation on this thread is wild. LJ is now coaching the talent out of the players, and he's lost the dressing room. Feels baseless to me. Every time there's pressure on a manager people start putting newspaper clippings on corkboards and linking them with string. People trying to tie in Luke Williams to the great grand conspiracy SMH.

How about a few simpler reasons. Ones that we can easily identify and see and that have track records.

1) Foreign players often struggle during their first season in English football. They especially struggle over Christmas and new year. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that Massengo, Nagy, Perreira might just be getting used to the rigours of the championship like so many have done before? Perhaps they're all homesick...

On top of, and adding to that.

2) We have a small team, a physically weak team, and are getting beaten up and bullied by more physical teams in colder weather. Let's go the lets's say acclimatised players that surround them. Rowe, Moore, Hunt, Brownhill, O'Dowda, Eliasson. Where's the Marvin Elliott type? Where's the Bradley Orr? Every championship standard player is a compromise. You compromise speed, power, technique, availability, aggression, something, or they wouldn't be at this level for long. We have assembled a team that compromises speed and physicality while being good at technique, discipline and character. So in warmer weather, against teams that pass more, we do better, while we dip right here and right now.

3) Our two strikers are actually not very good in a combination. They do not hold the ball up, they do not run in behind, their finishing is very inconsistent. So if you're not a threat in behind, and you can't hold the ball up long enough to bring others into play... well the rest of the team gets pressed, and rushed and the quality of delivery goes down. Reading on here that we score goals so up front isn't a problem... yikes. Again understand with the quality of players we have that the more we score the more we concede. It really does work like the Attacking to Defensive football manager team tactics slider. In order to score goals, because we miss so many chances we play super open. When we set up the other way, we create next to nothing. But notice we set up that way, and in each game players missed the chances to go ahead.

4) Players coming back to the mean. Taylor Moore. You know, the guy who loses concentration, the guy who gets out muscled. It showed up again. Tommy Rowe. Back up left back. Good squad player. Can cover in a pinch. Now it's showing. Ashley Williams. Why didn't he have a club? Same for Rodri. As much as you can paper over the cracks with some players, they eventually get found out. Think LJ can coach players faster than teams can work them out? I don't think so. We're all hyped about Massengo, but there's a reason he's at Bristol City.

5) Kalas looks like he's been rushed back to me. Do you think he's Tony Dinning?  Or you think he's come back too early? We've seen Bailey Wright... so.. yeah  desperate times with that one.

I think some people are doing an LJ, and over complicating things. Square excuses in round problems.

By the way, a lot of the problems I'm pointing out are caused by how we've assembled the squad, and the transfer decisions we've made. LJ's a part of that. I'm just not going to guess at turmoil behind the scene when I can see problems with the players directly in front of me. So why am  I not calling for LJ's head? Because he's identified the same problems I have. And I believe the problems go away as we move further into the new year. So I think it's better he be given the CHANCE to fix the issues in January before firing him. We should be encouraged by the end of the season, or he should go. But it makes sense to keep him as we're only a few players away from seeing if the DNA he's after works, or it doesn't and we have to tear it all down with a new manager.

TLDR We're small, we're inexperienced, we lack quality in depth. We really miss Adam Webster, we really miss Benik Afobe. That's why we're not that great. Not Tin Hat conspiracy theories about coaching, personalities and under 23 managers.

Some good points here. I think some on here think our players are better than they actually are. 

[Cowshed]

24 minutes ago, spudski said:

I boils my piss when LJ talks about individual errors with the defence. This match blaming TM for the winner.

How about looking further up the pitch in the build up.

The lethargic pressing, the absolute half heartedness to stop the cross into the box by DaSilva.

How dare he keep blaming individual errors.

Our defence is bombarded with balls into the box. We allow so many goal scoring opportunities.

These opportunities arise from build up play outside the box. Who's busting a nut to press, who's busting a nut to stop the ball into the box or the shot from outside the box?

Why let the ball into the box in the first place and expect defenders to make last ditch clearances or tackles in front of goal?

Eventually they will score, because we have overworked defenders.

Sort it out further up the field and these opportunities won't arise.

Do you expect the team to be busier? 

The lack of discipline and work there is a consequence of the recruitment and lack of focus. An expected consequence .. Skill sets of players do not meet  busy easily collectively. Passengers are a theme out of possession.

Pressing, screening, shape etc it's lack is down solely to the Manager. The team is a reflection of Mr Johnson's ideals.. 

 

 

 

 

[LondonBristolian]

54 minutes ago, Drew Peacock said:

I do wonder why, if LJ is recognised as such a great up and coming coach, we never see him connected with vacancies, never seem to have approaches for him.

Sure he appears in press articles about his coaching methods and so on, but publishers are usually pretty keen for any articles and the BCFC media department should be able to get these placed. It lifts his and the club's profile but at the end of the day nobody seems to be interested in our up and coming coach. Why?

Whilst I'm starting to feel a change of manager may be needed, I'm not sure this is a fair thing to measure LJ on. A lot of the reason may well be the fact that he's been very clear that he wants to be here for the long term and get us promoted. I think he is sincere in that. I am sure, when vacancies arise (and even before vacancies arise), clubs put feelers out and get an idea of who is likely to come before formally approaching a club or making their interest public and the reason why LJ is never connected with vacancies may well be because other clubs never get any signal back that he wants to talk to them. 

[Olé]

48 minutes ago, italian dave said:

This isn't about LJ 'out' - for several reasons I'm not an advocate of any particular view on that:

a) because it's not a decision that I (or anyone else on here) either has to make, will make or really knows the facts well enough to make

b) because fundamentally I don't believe that changing managers is usually a solution: I've seen too many periods where we've changed managers every year and gone backwards, whilst the most successful spell I've ever seen was when we backed a manager for a long time through thick and (much) thin.

c) nothing annoys me more than the knee jerk reactions - which yesterday were staring even at half time on here - and the 'sack the manager' calls that epitomise the populist world we now seem to live in. Those three words are as negative, as meaning less and as solution-free as 'take back control' or 'get Brexit done'!

I'm exactly the same, I stop short of those five pithy LJ OUT letters because it's not typically my reaction and it's such an easy and cheap response to a problem for which the solutions are complex and varied. But I'm glad you picked up on the same tone I got leaving the game - I figured titling this thread as potentially fatal for Johnson would be construed as extreme (hence adding the disclaimer) but I really felt, as it sounds Iike you did, that the mood at the end was now turning sharply.

Not the permanent sniping of those who have always disliked the guy, but the resigned, frustrated "here we go again" of the right-minded patient majority who schlep all over the country and I sense no longer have the stomach for another optimism-filled City squad to capitulate and be written off as requiring replacements. Because make no mistake that's exactly where we are today, a month or two after many of us - and LJ himself - said it was the strongest group he'd yet assembled.

Personally that's why I used the word 'fatal' and called this out as pivotal for Johnson. It feels to me like he is running out of road precisely because we have been down all these roads before and we're heading down them again. Johnson needs to sign players in January is as cheap an answer to the manager not knowing his best side and cycling through players producing confused and identity-less football, as LJ OUT is a cheap answer for a fan. I don't buy either of them, but here we are.

I believe I try to talk up the team in my reports when we play well, I get far more criticism for overrating players. I also have found opportunities like at Derby, Preston and Fulham to write reports that salute Johnson's methods and his team's displays. So I'm far from knee jerk. It is "just" 4 defeats, but the difference this season is the football has often been very poor, if anything results are simply catching up with performances, and I don't think LJ has any answers that we haven't all heard before.

[LondonBristolian]

6 minutes ago, Olé said:

I'm exactly the same, I stop short of those five pithy LJ OUT letters because it's not typically my reaction and it's such an easy and cheap response to a problem for which the solutions are complex and varied. But I'm glad you picked up on the same tone I got leaving the game - I figured titling this thread as potentially fatal for Johnson would be construed as extreme (hence adding the disclaimer) but I really felt, as it sounds Iike you did, that the mood at the end was now turning sharply.

Not the permanent sniping of those who have always disliked the guy, but the resigned, frustrated "here we go again" of the right-minded patient majority who schlep all over the country and I sense no longer have the stomach for another optimism-filled City squad to capitulate and be written off as requiring replacements. Because make no mistake that's exactly where we are today, a month or two after many of us - and LJ himself - said it was the strongest group he'd yet assembled.

Personally that's why I used the word 'fatal' and called this out as pivotal for Johnson. It feels to me like he is running out of road precisely because we have been down all these roads before and we're heading down them again. Johnson needs to sign players in January is as cheap an answer to the manager not knowing his best side and cycling through players producing confused and identity-less football, as LJ OUT is a cheap answer for a fan. I don't buy either of them, but here we are.

I believe I try to talk up the team in my reports when we play well, I get far more criticism for overrating players. I also have found opportunities like at Derby, Preston and Fulham to write reports that salute Johnson's methods and his team's displays. So I'm far from knee jerk. It is "just" 4 defeats, but the difference this season is the football has often been very poor, if anything results are simply catching up with performances, and I don't think LJ has any answers that we haven't all heard before.

I can hear the sound of a nail being hit very firmly on the head. 

[Major Isewater]

5 hours ago, glen humphries said:

The midfield and defence is the problem Jon 

The attack’s not too great either at the moment. 

[maxjak]

3 hours ago, Jerseybean said:

As always sensible and informed input Ole. I would add a couple of additional observations. 

1. I recall it being said that LJ needed x training sessions with new players in order to implant his coaching expertise. While I don’t remember what x was it was a lot! This suggests great detail and complexity.

2. As a fan I am now totally bored and fed up with LJ’s comments and language, particularly his post match contributions. Makes me think what the players, who hear him day in day out, must think.

I don’t see LJ departing this season, however, I am massively bothered by the situation and by our performances (not only recently) and wonder if it might be that he’s lost or is losing the changing room. If that happens it would/should accelerate decision making re his future.

 

I also get the impression that the players are also becoming bored with LJ's constant meanderings, as well as us?  Confidence is probably the largest element of any teams performance, after taking skill and ability as a given.  It is the managers job to instil this confidence in his players by giving them a pattern of play and tactics that they are all comfortable and familiar with.  LJ just talks a good game, but rarely produces one.  After so many windows and so many games in charge, we have no identity and no set tactical pattern.  Nagy and Massengo are going backwards performance wise and our best player is unable to fit into our formation apparently?.    As we continue to lose to teams like Charlton and Luton, confidence will continue to drain, all our players are now back from injury, so thats no longer an excuse...............so LJ needs to stop talking and start earning his wages, as I believe Steve L is becoming as frustrated and fed up as we are?  (He didn''t spend all his money on a beautiful stadium, for it to become the backdrop for dire entertainment?)

[Major Isewater]

23 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Wilder should not be paired with Warnock as they are very different coaches.

With his gruff northern exterior and occasional "the game's gone" style moaning he can seem a bit old school but he is innovative - though I understand that Alan Knill deserves a bigger share of the credit than he gets. Hence he was voted LMA coach of the year by his peers.

What he has done over a period of time is decide on a style of play, recruit players to suit it and relentlessly drill them with repetitive training.

This is very different from our approach, which is to keep signing, developing and selling to improve the financial health of the club. In its own terms it is a success but the playing side is secondary as the constant churn is not conducive to a sustained playing strategy.

There’s only one Knill .