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AshtonRobin21

“Identity”

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What LJ and MA say is not matched by action to back the words. It is a continuation of the bull shit that they have sold to Sl for 4 years pretending to  know what they are doing. They do not, they have not created a footballing identity across the club, a playing approach, a recruitment strategy. The team has low possession levels and pass completion, and is a long ball side. These are basics that should not be missing after 4 years at the helm, these are the core elements to build and transform the club. 

It is the King's clothes, and SL has been duped. That he has not woken up to this yet is the real shocking news. Playing long ball, low possession , disjointed football is the least shocking aspect of a LJ team. A team he has said he has last say in transfers with and has gone through 60 players. SL time to come out of the BS induced coma. 

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2 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Your use of shock in your earlier post indicates dismay at Bristol City performance. Here you are providing excuses for it. I did not find it shocking, or surprising because the team has no identity and there is no big plan guiding Lee Johnsons football. 

The clubs random recruitment policy? Lee Johnson claims to have final say. It is claimed the recruitment is meticulous. What you identify is millions wasted in resource. 

Your previous post. It was only a few months ago that LJ said we played a behind closed door friendly with the sole intention of completing over 600 passes = What was the point of that friendly?  The team do not play that way. Its again wasted time. But a bigger point here is about the teams wider preparation. How do you prepare for this much change? How many training sessions are being wasted preparing for morphing styles that Mr Johnson will not stick with?

The academy do not play like the XI. The U23's ditto. And they cannot. The identity running through the club Mr Johnson mentions does not exist. More waste.

There is a transient nature to teams that are admired on this forum. Currently its Brentford and Sheffield Utd. Neither team go through as much change as BCFC do. Brentford. Both have clear direction. Brentford have very clear recruitment. Mr Wilder is known for his methodical and intensive approach to periodized training. Both have identity - The title of the thread.

In regards to Bristol City and identity .. Still bullshit. 

 

 

 

 

What wasn’t reported was that 450 minute halves!!! 😜

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6 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Your use of shock in your earlier post indicates dismay at Bristol City performance. Here you are providing excuses for it. I did not find it shocking, or surprising because the team has no identity and there is no big plan guiding Lee Johnsons football. 

The clubs random recruitment policy? Lee Johnson claims to have final say. It is claimed the recruitment is meticulous. What you identify is millions wasted in resource. 

Your previous post. It was only a few months ago that LJ said we played a behind closed door friendly with the sole intention of completing over 600 passes = What was the point of that friendly?  The team do not play that way. Its again wasted time. But a bigger point here is about the teams wider preparation. How do you prepare for this much change? How many training sessions are being wasted preparing for morphing styles that Mr Johnson will not stick with?

The academy do not play like the XI. The U23's ditto. And they cannot. The identity running through the club Mr Johnson mentions does not exist. More waste.

There is a transient nature to teams that are admired on this forum. Currently its Brentford and Sheffield Utd. Neither team go through as much change as BCFC do. Brentford. Both have clear direction. Brentford have very clear recruitment. Mr Wilder is known for his methodical and intensive approach to periodized training. Both have identity - The title of the thread.

In regards to Bristol City and identity .. Still bullshit. 

 

 

 

 

This is a very precise comment and one that many at the club recognise as true. The level of BS is astonishing . They all want SL to wake up and realise that there is an opportunity to be far far better. To create a true identit throughout the club. The mates club needs changing rapidly. 

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6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Have you seen the churn of the playing staff in recent years? Not sure we can...it's bloody expensive for one though offloading will save costs too and secondly a team cannot IMO gel if you keep making wholesale changes.

I think LJ needs to change the shape- the 4-1-4-1 mentioned elsewhere was a good starting point I think, but only should be seen as such.

 

6 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Your use of shock in your earlier post indicates dismay at Bristol City performance. Here you are providing excuses for it. I did not find it shocking, or surprising because the team has no identity and there is no big plan guiding Lee Johnsons football. 

The clubs random recruitment policy? Lee Johnson claims to have final say. It is claimed the recruitment is meticulous. What you identify is millions wasted in resource. 

Your previous post. It was only a few months ago that LJ said we played a behind closed door friendly with the sole intention of completing over 600 passes = What was the point of that friendly?  The team do not play that way. Its again wasted time. But a bigger point here is about the teams wider preparation. How do you prepare for this much change? How many training sessions are being wasted preparing for morphing styles that Mr Johnson will not stick with?

The academy do not play like the XI. The U23's ditto. And they cannot. The identity running through the club Mr Johnson mentions does not exist. More waste.

There is a transient nature to teams that are admired on this forum. Currently its Brentford and Sheffield Utd. Neither team go through as much change as BCFC do. Brentford. Both have clear direction. Brentford have very clear recruitment. Mr Wilder is known for his methodical and intensive approach to periodized training. Both have identity - The title of the thread.

In regards to Bristol City and identity .. Still bullshit. 

 

 

 

 

I think the biggest problem, is we as fans on this forum, take everything that comes out of the Club as truth.

Football changes every week. We in hindsight will look at everything that happens in a tenure on paper and tear it apart when it suits.

Fans can mention Man City, Liverpool, Sheffield Utd, Brentford etc, etc and complain about us. Now compare with the 80 odd other Clubs in the football league. Are we any different? I beg to differ.

Yes it feels we are less entertaining and boring to watch...and the whole feel good of when we came up has disappeared. The more you stay in a league, the more mundane it becomes.

Look at pretty much every Club and tell me it's different.

SL should do this, LJ should do this...blah blah blah...ok in a perfect world on a forum.

Seriously...and not directed personally... every club is trying for perfection, and out of 90 odd clubs only a handful are satisfied.

Yes I think our recruitment is wayward...but considering the bigger picture I'm not going to get my knickers in a twist 😜🤣😆

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

 

I think the biggest problem, is we as fans on this forum, take everything that comes out of the Club as truth.

 

I do not. I stated several seasons ago Mr Johnson was making things up as he went along. Now I will call it bullshit. 

Edited by Cowshed

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For me the word 'identity' is greater than just simply "we press high as team" or " we're a passing out from the back team".

I think footballing identity and identity as a club are blurred when people talk about identity as a whole. 

This is my opinion, but another word for me is 'character'.

Yes clearly our 'identity' on the pitch is not the finished product, but it goes beyond that, identity goes into the character and ethic of the club.

From that respect, JL, MA and LJ have instilled this at the club. The type of players we are looking for, the type of people we employ to work off the pitch. The plans in place for the future in terms of training facility and Bristol Sport. Allowing time to develop from within, the technology, the recruitment etc etc.

Yes it doesn't always go 100% right, yes it still needs to develop, but the process is there and it is working off the pitch.

The challenge is getting it to work on the pitch, but as @spudski rightly points out, we are one of 100's of teams searching for that too and it is not easily achieved.

Final thought, as i've said so many times over the years, I will again - there is a big difference between the club saying "the aim is the premier league" and "we're going to get in the premier league at any cost".

Edited by Alessandro
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1 minute ago, Alessandro said:

For me the word 'identity' is greater than just simply "we press high as team" or " we're a passing out from the back team".

I think footballing identity and identity as a club are blurred when people talk about identity as a whole. 

This is my opinion, but another word for me is 'character'.

Yes clearly our 'identity' on the pitch is not the finished product, but it goes beyond that, identity goes into the character and ethic of the club.

From that respect, JL, MA and LJ have instilled this at the club. The type of players we are looking for, the type of people we employ to work off the pitch. The plans in place for the future in terms of training facility and Bristol Sport. Allowing time to develop from within, the technology, the recruitment etc etc.

Yes it doesn't always go 100% right, yes it still needs to develop, but the process is there and it is working off the pitch.

The challenge is getting it to work on the pitch, but as @spudski rightly points out, we are one of 100's of teams searching for that too and it is not easily achieved.

Final thought, as i've said so many times over the years, I will again - there is a big difference between the club saying "the aim is the premier league" and "we're going to get in the premier league at any cost".

Mr Johnson has stated very clearly that identity refers to the teams football. Mr Johnson for instance has spoken about academy teams pressing high and made a comparison to the XI in reference to a playing identity he wants to see throughout the club. 

Clearly in Mr Ashton speak Mr Johnson wants a synergy in playing style throughout the club as do a few other clubs. A synergy to an unidentified playing style. That is a nonsense.

Clearly in Mr Ashton speak Mr Johnson wants a synergy in the clubs recruitment to an unidentified playing style. Nonsense again.

Where is this process? Bristol City v Wigan played a game that does not require all the 21st century vision you paint. Bristol City's football was hardly modern. There is no attempt to be cosmic. Four years of process to go to a team that plays like that? Nonsense again. 

The thread isn't about "we're going to get in the premier league at any cost".  It is about in others words - an ever changing kaleidoscope team who very few people would struggle to predict from game to game ... I liked that one

 

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1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

Mr Johnson has stated very clearly that identity refers to the teams football. Mr Johnson for instance has spoken about academy teams pressing high and made a comparison to the XI in reference to a playing identity he wants to see throughout the club. 

Clearly in Mr Ashton speak Mr Johnson wants a synergy in playing style throughout the club as do a few other clubs. A synergy to an unidentified playing style. That is a nonsense.

Clearly in Mr Ashton speak Mr Johnson wants a synergy in the clubs recruitment to an unidentified playing style. Nonsense again.

Where is this process? Bristol City v Wigan played a game that does not require all the 21st century vision you paint. Bristol City's football was hardly modern. There is no attempt to be cosmic. Four years of process to go to a team that plays like that? Nonsense again. 

The thread isn't about "we're going to get in the premier league at any cost".  It is about in others words - an ever changing kaleidoscope team who very few people would struggle to predict from game to game ... I liked that one

 

I think you need to actually read and react to my post rather than just continuing to just simply put your opinion across.

I’ve agreed the ‘identity’ on the pitch is not there. 

But there is arguably an identity, a character being put in place off and slowly on the pitch. Attributes, attitudes, qualities. Recruitment is improving all the time, yet will always be hit and miss.

The progress off the pitch and in league position under Mr Johnson’s tenure backs that up.

The Wigan game in particular was a team that was arguably weaker than one we put out last season. The selling nature of the club will have to be balanced out with progress on the pitch.

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4 hours ago, Alessandro said:

I think you need to actually read and react to my post rather than just continuing to just simply put your opinion across.

I’ve agreed the ‘identity’ on the pitch is not there. 

But there is arguably an identity, a character being put in place off and slowly on the pitch. Attributes, attitudes, qualities. Recruitment is improving all the time, yet will always be hit and miss.

The progress off the pitch and in league position under Mr Johnson’s tenure backs that up.

The Wigan game in particular was a team that was arguably weaker than one we put out last season. The selling nature of the club will have to be balanced out with progress on the pitch.

What is the identity on and off the pitch then ? Thats a genuine question because I can't see anything other than random signings and ever changing game plans.

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2 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

What is the identity on and off the pitch then ? Thats a genuine question because I can't see anything other than random signings and ever changing game plans.

Read my previous posts.

I'm not just talking about playing identity, which clearly has shifted around as is not clear to many fans. 

I am saying it goes beyond just that, it's about character. 

I disagree the signings are "random". Have they all worked? No. Have they all fitted the playing style? Not necessarily. But they pretty much all have certain attributes in common. Profit and loss on the squad over recent years suggests something is working.

As for the "ever changing game plans" - I can only imagine a manager has to be flexible in his approach when his best players are sold every season and you're managing injuries etc throughout. I've said it before and I'll say it again, some people tout text book stuff about footballing identity like it's an exact science. Reality proves it clearly is not, or else everyone would be doing it, right? What's Preston's playing identity? What's Swansea's?

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City don’t have an ‘identity’ - not yet anyway.

When LJ was asked at Senior Reds to describe what our identity is he couldn’t give an answer.........plenty of bluff and hot air in his reply tho...............:cool2:

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4 hours ago, Alessandro said:

Read my previous posts.

I'm not just talking about playing identity, which clearly has shifted around as is not clear to many fans. 

I am saying it goes beyond just that, it's about character. 

I disagree the signings are "random". Have they all worked? No. Have they all fitted the playing style? Not necessarily. But they pretty much all have certain attributes in common. Profit and loss on the squad over recent years suggests something is working.

As for the "ever changing game plans" - I can only imagine a manager has to be flexible in his approach when his best players are sold every season and you're managing injuries etc throughout. I've said it before and I'll say it again, some people tout text book stuff about footballing identity like it's an exact science. Reality proves it clearly is not, or else everyone would be doing it, right? What's Preston's playing identity? What's Swansea's?

You did not have any previous posts in this thread to read. What I replied to was your one post and its reframing of the topic. This thread is very clearly about the identity of the football and fuelled by Mr Johnson own remarks. 

I do not disagree that character is part of identity, but character is multi facetted. Character can be driven by the teams identity. Decision making can be improved by knowledge. Confidence is driven by knowledge and clarity. These are reasons clubs use models of play (identity). 

 As for the "ever changing game plans" - I can only imagine a manager has to be flexible in his approach … And if a team alters its football significantly it had no identity to start with. A style changes. An identity does not fundamentally. Bristol City have used 5/6/7 formations this season that is flexibility gone .. Well it is ultra flexible with championship players … Even Carlo Ancellotti does not get that flexible with great players.

when his best players are sold every season and you're managing injuries etc … Seriously so what! That is not to sound glib or rude its a reason to have an identity throughout the club and use resources in a targeted manner. The academy, the U23's, the training, the recruitment all support the identity in an effort to create a squad of players with the key skills to fit the footballs needs. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, some people tout text book stuff about footballing identity like it's an exact science .. Err no. Obviously it cannot be exact. Nothing in football can be exact as humans are not and neither are circumstances and environments, but there are consistencies and norms that can be expected. 

Reality proves it clearly is not, or else everyone would be doing it, right?   Everybody does not do the same as highlighted by Mr Johnson who would probably have been sacked elsewhere. Some clubs do not have academies. Some clubs do not have BCFC's resource, some have more, and a lot more. Circumstances and environments differ - The owners of clubs have differing expectations of now and the future.

This thread is about Lee Johnson and Bristol City's football. 

What's Preston's playing identity? What's Swansea's?  Preston … I don't particularly warm to Alex Neils football. Overwhelmingly 4-2-3-1 … Swansea were a great example of identity. The club incorporated a clear pattern of play throughout its teams from its academy upwards. The club employed people to oversee that this identity and supporting philosophies were adhered to throughout its football with coaches and a Manager to implement it. Swansea's football building from the back (splitting CB's before it became trendy), their use of possession as a means to quell games, the insistence of playing to feet, triangles and diamonds changed little through seasons and multiple promotions. The identity was abandoned with the Americans taking over Swansea and ******* things up … However again this thread is about the here and Lee Johnson.

 

Edited by Cowshed

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8 hours ago, Alessandro said:

I think you need to actually read and react to my post rather than just continuing to just simply put your opinion across.

I’ve agreed the ‘identity’ on the pitch is not there. 

But there is arguably an identity, a character being put in place off and slowly on the pitch. Attributes, attitudes, qualities. Recruitment is improving all the time, yet will always be hit and miss.

The progress off the pitch and in league position under Mr Johnson’s tenure backs that up.

The Wigan game in particular was a team that was arguably weaker than one we put out last season. The selling nature of the club will have to be balanced out with progress on the pitch.

I managed to answer a different post … Never the less. 

Identity should always be there. It is what governs the football. Its the footballs principles. 

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On ‎28‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 15:15, billywedlock said:

Many have  been asking for years to have an explanation of the LJ identity. It does not exist, is not an in depth club philosophy and is not matched by our transfer policy. The club has certainly improved scouting systems and analysis, but if you are buying players without a plan it is essentially random. We have changed tactics in game, game to game and season to season. Players in the squad are not assembled to make a team to a pre determined strategy and as such are square pegs and round holes all ove

I do not read on here any real dissent or frustration at maybe a lack of a promotion push, it is the total absence  of identity and progress season on season to perfecting that identity that is the issue. When you hear from the coaches about refinding our identity I really cannot comprehend what they are talking about. Defensive, turgid boring football ?. The level of bullshit, smoke and mirrors is extraordinary . The use of buzz words and techno speak to make it seem like we know what we are doing is extraordinary. Box insertions indeed. 

We have a decent, unbalanced squad, without any semblance of strategy. We are simply wasting time, when we should be building something concrete. LJ is wanting in far too many areas, inexperience certainly, lack of ability in key aspects of his job evident. The amount of money spent for a non parachute club , to then have zero identity has to be open to scrutiny. 

I do not understand why SL can appoint Pat Lam as the approach for the rugby team and have LJ on the other side. It is nonsense. The club has in place a lot of basics for the next step of development , new training ground is  close too. It now needs someone who knows what top level football involves and the current set up is far from what is needed. We have no one at the club off the field that has a clue about the Prem or what is needed. 

Another season of the bluffers , how SL cannot see what it is for what it is  still baffles. We can, with all the resources we have available be a far better club and a far better team to watch on Saturday afternoons. 

Brentford is a wonderful example, as is Sheffield United. 

The threads several weeks old and I reread parts. Your post is caustic but bang on. It Is not about a promotion push its that total lack of identity. Two weeks later theres no sensible posts to explain what LJs identity is. Two weeks on and he has played several formations won lost drawn but been outplayed by lower division mid table Shrewsbury!

At Wigan Citys football has gone the way of what we'd expect of the Gas. That has to be under scrutiny. You are right 100% Bristol City should be a far beter team to watch than this. The club should be embarrassed by it.

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On ‎12‎/‎01‎/‎2020 at 08:51, spudski said:

Couldn't believe the stats I read this morning. Passes made... Charlton 611, City 265.

Pass accuracy. Charlton 524, city 163.

That is truly shocking.

It was only a few months ago that LJ said we played a behind closed door friendly with the sole intention of completing over 600 passes.

Some fans were wanting Warnock a while back...well that's the type of stats you'd get with him.

Sit deep, soak up pressure, win ball and ping and hope football.

You've been coating off a lot about the club. City got out footballed by Shrewsbury. so why would playing like Warnock or the Gas be shocking??

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17 hours ago, Alessandro said:

I disagree the signings are "random". Have they all worked? No. Have they all fitted the playing style? Not necessarily.

 

that is random.

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On 28/12/2019 at 12:16, RUSSEL85 said:

As I’ve said in a previous post, this “identity” is a myth, we don’t have one.

Maybe our identity is polymorphic ?

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I think our “identity “ is like an identikit picture that looks nothing like the actual perpetrator.

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I'd like to know what system we played today. Where were the players positioned.

Was Fam up top with Weimann?

Was Eliasson lacking any real freedom wide in a 442?

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Going to take my Citys football has gone the way of what we'd expect of the Gas back. With a game against the European champions on offer City couldn't beat a team the Gas did. It was not a surprise either.

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On 14/01/2020 at 11:25, Three Lions said:

You've been coating off a lot about the club. City got out footballed by Shrewsbury. so why would playing like Warnock or the Gas be shocking??

More intensity in midfield could be welcomed. Warnocks teams counter press. Bristol City generally (now) do not and in comparison are quite passive. Harrying the opposition and the odd tackle gets the crowd going.

Bristol City look languid frequently. Energy in and out of possession is an obvious part of identity - We will work hard as a non negotiable through out the team. 

 

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44 minutes ago, Roe said:

This is our identity:

a527869fdb2335396d1f032361bb68eb.png

Not exactly a cosmic brand of football, is it?

Wind the clock back to 2017. To move the football after all the investment in time, training hours and finance to there I would answer again it is a failure.

Non-aggressive … A description for weak commonly. Weak Bristol City. An insult.

 

Edited by Cowshed

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