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leadman

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we starting to take him for granted?

our best defensive displays this season was due in no small part to the big fella, injured last couple and is usually 4th in peoples preferred  central defenders.

kalas was at fault for 2 of charltons goals saturday and if we are going to a 3 and bakers fit i would like to see him in, for any of the others tbh.

and before anyone starts going on about his fitness and his temperament , dont bother im aware, but 4 defeats on the spin,( in no small part to our once proud defense) we do need to change something thats for sure.....

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1 hour ago, leadman said:

we starting to take him for granted?

our best defensive displays this season was due in no small part to the big fella, injured last couple and is usually 4th in peoples preferred  central defenders.

kalas was at fault for 2 of charltons goals saturday and if we are going to a 3 and bakers fit i would like to see him in, for any of the others tbh.

and before anyone starts going on about his fitness and his temperament , dont bother im aware, but 4 defeats on the spin,( in no small part to our once proud defense) we do need to change something thats for sure.....

For me we have 3 better centre backs for sure in Kalas, Williams and Moore.

Baker poor on ball and makes bad mistakes. Sure kalas has made a couple but at least we know when he's back to his best he is a top defender.

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Once proud defence??????

Defensively hes strong, but he can't stay fit and watching him with the ball at his feet is bloody painful. 

A strong defence is built on understanding, something that they wont get until Johnson starts forming partnerships rather than changing it every bloody game.

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 I’ve said it before, an underrated player it seems by a lot of people on here. I also don’t buy into this ‘ poor on the ball ‘, sure he isn’t Adam Webster, but who is? I think he is ok on the ball, happy to give it 10 yards to a midfielder if on, but also happy to play percentages & clip it down the wing if nothing is on. Also being a left footer, he brings balance. COYR 

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I wish fans and LJ would stop blaming defenders for goals.

Defence starts further up the field.

Miss a tackle, header as a defender, the opposition score...make a foul, you give away a penalty.

Do that further up the field...do people moan so loud when for example Famara misses a header, misses a tackle, commits a foul, doesn't mark or press? No...because it doesn't lead to a goal directly from the error.

Stop the ball getting in the box so easily...stop crosses, press harder etc etc.

So easy to blame defenders, when the errors often all start further up the pitch.

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4 hours ago, JonDolman said:

For me we have 3 better centre backs for sure in Kalas, Williams and Moore.

Baker poor on ball and makes bad mistakes. Sure kalas has made a couple but at least we know when he's back to his best he is a top defender.

I would personally be more than happy to see Bakes come into the middle of a 3 in place of Williams. It's far too easy to just knock a ball over the middle and get through as Kalas and Moore have licence to roam forward a bit. 

Back 3 for me will be Kalas Baker and Moore and a back 2 would be Kalas and Moore. 

Williams has done well, but we don't gain enough from his expirience on the pitch than we loose with his weaknesses, and I think that expirience will be just as valuable on the bench than in the team. 

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4 hours ago, JonDolman said:

For me we have 3 better centre backs for sure in Kalas, Williams and Moore.

Baker poor on ball and makes bad mistakes. Sure kalas has made a couple but at least we know when he's back to his best he is a top defender.

I can’t remember Baker making many ‘bad mistakes’ this season? (May be wrong - if so, I’ll blame the merlot!) He’s a top defender at this level and gets unwarranted stick from a lot of City fans in my opinion 

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Caught out a couple of times by long crosses, but I think he has started to look the player he was when we signed him. Also I like the balance he brings asa genuinely left sided player, in a back 3 I'm more than happy to see him alongside Kalas on the right and Williams or even try Moore centrally.

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

I wish fans and LJ would stop blaming defenders for goals.

Defence starts further up the field.

Miss a tackle, header as a defender, the opposition score...make a foul, you give away a penalty.

Do that further up the field...do people moan so loud when for example Famara misses a header, misses a tackle, commits a foul, doesn't mark or press? No...because it doesn't lead to a goal directly from the error.

Stop the ball getting in the box so easily...stop crosses, press harder etc etc.

So easy to blame defenders, when the errors often all start further up the pitch.

Spot on, last game aside the four centre backs have not actually played awfully at all, the midfield has not blocked anything from coming through. 

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Kalas outfought by Bonne for the 2nd Charlton goal? Moore beaten to the cross for the 3rd goal?

I don’t think the central defenders are solely to blame (Bentley has had 2 shockers against Charlton being beaten to a long ball when rushing out - home & away) and that are midfield remains a major problem, but they are not completely blameless either.

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59 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

I can’t remember Baker making many ‘bad mistakes’ this season? (May be wrong - if so, I’ll blame the merlot!) He’s a top defender at this level and gets unwarranted stick from a lot of City fans in my opinion 

Nor me, been pretty solid this season.  Defensively he’s been back to near his best imho.  Looked like his head is back on the game.

To say Moore is a better CB than Baker is a leap of faith.  Better on the ball, Yep.  Not a better defender, by some stretch imho.  He’s done well when he comes in and is getting better.

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16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Nor me, been pretty solid this season.  Defensively he’s been back to near his best imho.  Looked like his head is back on the game.

To say Moore is a better CB than Baker is a leap of faith.  Better on the ball, Yep.  Not a better defender, by some stretch imho.  He’s done well when he comes in and is getting better.

Agree. I’d rather have a defender who can defend but looks a little awkward on the ball, a defender who looks good on the ball but is prone to mistakes.

i also don’t the the obsession in passing it out from the back for the sake of it, starting from the goal keeper. We’re no good at it. And the amount of goals we concede from fannying around with it at the back playing hospital passes speaks for itself 

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24 minutes ago, city1983 said:

Agree. I’d rather have a defender who can defend but looks a little awkward on the ball, a defender who looks good on the ball but is prone to mistakes.

i also don’t the the obsession in passing it out from the back for the sake of it, starting from the goal keeper. We’re no good at it. And the amount of goals we concede from fannying around with it at the back playing hospital passes speaks for itself 

Agree, at times better to go long, and try to win the 50:50 on the halfway line....at least you’re 40 yards further up the pitch.  Bit Neanderthal, but got to know when to play and when not to.

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Partnerships, Partnerships, Partnerships.

None up front, midfield or defence. Don’t think our Club understand the concept or importance of forging partnerships. 

Should start at Academy level. Working in groups of 2-3-4 players. It’s what LJ would call the ‘fine margins’, if intuitively you know what your partner is going to do, where he’ll be, which run he’s making you can make the pass a second or so quicker.

At the moment, we have Academy products of similar ages playing in Oldham and Torquay. They’ll be on about the same wavelength with each other as Fammy and Weimann are. 

 

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21 minutes ago, hodge said:

Yes, people at Ashton Gate will moan about anything ?‍♂️

People are right to moan about an ineffective forward! Long ball can’t control it, sharp passing move and ball gone before any reaction, terrible ball retention, just the occasional cross that falls kindly to foot or head and finds it way into goal. if we can’t get an effective strike rate from a forward we are better off setting up an attacking midfield and not starting a centre forward!

Of course it would be even better if the midfield was set up in a way that their attacking strengths compliment each other! 

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1 hour ago, Dr Balls said:

Kalas outfought by Bonne for the 2nd Charlton goal? Moore beaten to the cross for the 3rd goal?

I don’t think the central defenders are solely to blame (Bentley has had 2 shockers against Charlton being beaten to a long ball when rushing out - home & away) and that are midfield remains a major problem, but they are not completely blameless either.

And both poorly positioned for the first.

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Would like to see us go back to moore on the right, baker on the left and kalas on the right.

Baker on the left gives more balance.

Moore can bring the ball out. 

Kalas can go back to what he does best.

Might seem harsh on Williams as he has been playing well. But perhaps whilst bringing out the best in him, his involvement hinders the others. 

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23 minutes ago, cider-manc said:

Would like to see us go back to moore on the right, baker on the left and kalas on the right.

Baker on the left gives more balance.

Moore can bring the ball out. 

Kalas can go back to what he does best.

Might seem harsh on Williams as he has been playing well. But perhaps whilst bringing out the best in him, his involvement hinders the others. 

I really like a back 3, but at this point in time, Eliasson is crucial, and we must go back 4 to allow him to play.

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4 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

I can’t remember Baker making many ‘bad mistakes’ this season? (May be wrong - if so, I’ll blame the merlot!) He’s a top defender at this level and gets unwarranted stick from a lot of City fans in my opinion 

He's been partly to blame for quite a number of goals imo. I think it was the last game he started against Millwall he bizarrely ran out the way for Wallace to score. Then didn't do enough with Cooper header from free kick. Needs to get closer to players heading the ball. Defenders can't win every header, but they can barge a player heading a ball to put them off and make their header go off target.

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2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

He's been partly to blame for quite a number of goals imo. I think it was the last game he started against Millwall he bizarrely ran out the way for Wallace to score. Then didn't do enough with Cooper header from free kick. Needs to get closer to players heading the ball. Defenders can't win every header, but they can barge a player heading a ball to put them off and make their header go off target.

Millwall defeat was down to a very poor midfield performance

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2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

He's been partly to blame for quite a number of goals imo. I think it was the last game he started against Millwall he bizarrely ran out the way for Wallace to score. Then didn't do enough with Cooper header from free kick. Needs to get closer to players heading the ball. Defenders can't win every header, but they can barge a player heading a ball to put them off and make their header go off target.

Virtually every goal is someone’s fault.  G1 v Millwall, avoids contact to save giving away a pen.  Was no more at fault than Bentley for that one.  G2 v Millwall, can’t really see who’s marking who, but combo of quality ball and movement, but if you feel it’s  Baker’s fault then fine.

Preston (a) was a foul on him.

What about Some of his brilliant defending this season.  Easy to count mistakes.  He’s played well this season, most people commenting that he’s back to near his best.

Just think you need a bit more balance.

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10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Virtually every goal is someone’s fault.  G1 v Millwall, avoids contact to save giving away a pen.  Was no more at fault than Bentley for that one.  G2 v Millwall, can’t really see who’s marking who, but combo of quality ball and movement, but if you feel it’s  Baker’s fault then fine.

Preston (a) was a foul on him.

What about Some of his brilliant defending this season.  Easy to count mistakes.  He’s played well this season, most people commenting that he’s back to near his best.

Just think you need a bit more balance.

Agree. Most goals are more than one players fault. But there are numerous faults from Baker. He has been better this season than last season and christmas to May before that. But as he isn't a ball playing centre back, i'd want him to be better defensively than he is.

Bruce didn't think he was good enough for a promotion side at this level. And I think that's the same now for us if we want to push on.

Financially he is apparently one of our higher earners. And he is arguably 4th choice centre back.

Obviously that last point is what we are debating, but for me Williams has been very good, Kalas is our best defender when we look at how good he was last season, and Taylor Moore really looks class to me - improving all the time unlike the others.

Funny how Bailey Wright is not rated by many fans, but i'd describe him as a solid defender at this level, kind of like people usually describe Baker.

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20 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Agree. Most goals are more than one players fault. But there are numerous faults from Baker. He has been better this season than last season and christmas to May before that. But as he isn't a ball playing centre back, i'd want him to be better defensively than he is.

that’s fine, but does that mean Moore can be worse defensively, because he better on the ball?  That’s fine if that’s how you’re weighting it.  

Bruce didn't think he was good enough for a promotion side at this level. And I think that's the same now for us if we want to push on.

Did Bruce say that, or did he have other players in preference?  Just signed Chester and Elphick (and Jedinak who he later played at CB).  Baker played 80+ games in the Premier!!

Financially he is apparently one of our higher earners. And he is arguably 4th choice centre back.

He certainly was, suspect this summer’s activity has pushed him back a bit, but he’s on a good wedge I suspect.  4th choice is subjective.

Obviously that last point is what we are debating, but for me Williams has been very good, Kalas is our best defender when we look at how good he was last season, and Taylor Moore really looks class to me - improving all the time unlike the others.

Class?  Or doing well against expectations of a youngster making his way at this level?  Don’t get me wrong, he’s doing well, but he’s not looking “class”.  I do fully accept that if you are selecting a defence and want a ball player, you’ll pick Moore.  I’m comfy with that, I just argue that he’s not as a good a defender.

Funny how Bailey Wright is not rated by many fans, but i'd describe him as a solid defender at this level, kind of like people usually describe Baker.

Wright is underrated.  Came in and was solid as a rock v Forest (0-0).  Poor v West Brom, as were most, but his name becomes scapegoat.

 

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