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Kasey Palmer


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3 hours ago, petehinton said:

LJ saying that starting Eliasson or Palmer is like giving the opposition a 2 goal head start is absolute ******* madness. Can’t believe he said it. What a confidence boost to them. And also what a load of crap.  

Please tell me he didn’t say that?

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3 hours ago, petehinton said:

LJ saying that starting Eliasson or Palmer is like giving the opposition a 2 goal head start is absolute ******* madness. Can’t believe he said it. What a confidence boost to them. And also what a load of crap.  

Having Johnson as manager is like giving teams a two goal headstart

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I have gone on record as saying that Palmer is one of those players that the club should be building the team around . 
 

If we are tight for budget and we are stuck with Paterson coming back then there might be some logic in loaning out KP. 
 

He can hopefully get game time and either come back to City with confidence or , sadly more than likely, put himself in the shop window for a summer transfer.

:sad26:

I am really disappointed that the coaching staff have not got the most out of this lad .

 

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5 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

I have gone on record as saying that Palmer is one of those players that the club should be building the team around . 
 

If we are tight for budget and we are stuck with Paterson coming back then there might be some logic in loaning out KP. 
 

He can hopefully get game time and either come back to City with confidence or , sadly more than likely, put himself in the shop window for a summer transfer.

:sad26:

I am really disappointed that the coaching staff have not got the most out of this lad .

 

Agree to a point but let’s not forget that the lad himself also carries a degree of responsibility for getting the most out of himself. He’s probably on £15-20k a week so the least he can do is run around a bit and look keen and interested.

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2 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

The other consideration in this is that Swansea are skint, can they afford a significant loan fee plus Kasey’s wages? Probably not.

All that aside I will be hugely disappointed if he went, we need to get a forward or two that is on his wavelength, not loan him out.

Swansea can't afford anyone else while they are paying their star player 80 grand a week 

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Swansea were after Kasey Palmer in the summer and thought it was a done deal. The fact that LJ can’t seem to work out how to play him into the team is in part the player’s fault but also that of the coaches. He is the kind of player who can make things happen but you would have to build a team around him to make that happen. Unfortunately that isn’t going to happen as it appears that LJ doesn’t have the confidence in him to do that.

Hoeever there is a bigger issue here with LJ and flair players. He doesn’t really know how to handle them, but then neither did his dad, who bought Trundle but didn’t really know what to do with him. These players sometimes need a bit more patience and attention from coaches but if handled correctly can reward them many times over. They are not just a luxury, they are a luxury that you need to be able to make work for you.

LJ prefers industrious players, who work hard, but have little or no end product I.e. similar to himself as a player. However work rate only gets any team so far and the best teams ally that to skill. He finally seems to have seen the light with Eliasson but I think Kasey is in for a frustrating season.

Edited by Dr Balls
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Why are people suprised about Palmer possibly leaving, there is a good player there but he will always be a luxury player for us. When Palmer has a bad game which in my optics more often than not we do not have players that are good enough to pick up the pieces. With better players around him he would flourish but we currently do not have those players. It’s a shame but we have seen it with past players I.e Tomlin jet sno etc. Not good enough for the prem and to much of a risk for us. In my opinion.

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11 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Agree to a point but let’s not forget that the lad himself also carries a degree of responsibility for getting the most out of himself. He’s probably on £15-20k a week so the least he can do is run around a bit and look keen and interested.

I would say he has often looked a bit ‘ lost ‘ because he’s not been sure where to play .

One of the reasons why I believe players in his position need regular starts to be effective.

It’s like throwing in a conductor of an orchestra when he doesn’t know the music to be played or the musicians. 
 

I can’t say that I see a ‘ lazy ‘ player with KP. 
 

 

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Palmer has done nothing to suggest City should be building a team around him.  He is a luxury player who isn't even that much of a luxury

If City had signed him from Northampton and not Chelsea's C team then nobody would bat an eyelid

There seems to be an expectation that every young player we sign from a PL team is going to turn out to be great.

Edited by Lucan
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6 minutes ago, Lucan said:

Palmer has done nothing to suggest City should be building a team around him.

This isn't really true though.  He has the 2nd highest assists per minute ratio in the team behind Eliasson.

I agree he hasn't been good enough lately but it's not fair to suggest that he's done nothing this season (or last, when he was constantly changing games as an impact sub).

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Palmer is one of the most forward thinking players we’ve had ... his first thought is always to move the the ball forward.. so when he looks up and Fammy and Weimann are on their heels deep with backs to goals not attempting to make a run behind, he then has no option ... and gets caught .. it’s no surprise his best spell this season was when Afobe was playing who was an intelligent striker making these runs in behind for Palmer ... 

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He seems to fall into that JET/Tomlin/Noble/Trundle category of a highly talented player who can show flashes of brilliance.. but the the trade off is a requirement to build the entire team around him. I don't think we're quite good enough at this level to manage that. Madness to let him leave though, he can play a big part before the end of the season.

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10 hours ago, Dr Balls said:

Swansea were after Kasey Palmer in the summer and thought it was a done deal. The fact that LJ can’t seem to work out how to play him into the team is in part the player’s fault but also that of the coaches. He is the kind of player who can make things happen but you would have to build a team around him to make that happen. Unfortunately that isn’t going to happen as it appears that LJ doesn’t have the confidence in him to do that.

Hoeever there is a bigger issue here with LJ and flair players. He doesn’t really know how to handle them, but then neither did his dad, who bought Trundle but didn’t really know what to do with him. These players sometimes need a bit more patience and attention from coaches but if handled correctly can reward them many times over. They are not just a luxury, they are a luxury that you need to be able to make work for you.

LJ prefers industrious players, who work hard, but have little or no end product I.e. similar to himself as a player. However work rate only gets any team so far and the best teams ally that to skill. He finally seems to have seen the light with Eliasson but I think Kasey is in for a frustrating season.

It's worth going back to interviews with KP when he signed for us.

He is quoted as saying he feels most comfortable here, it feels homely, has made good friends and that his family also like it and feel settled here.

He is also quoted as saying he came because he thought LJ could develop his all round game. He says he knows he can do more defensively and that he has struggled with fitness...hence all the extra training in the summer and now.

LJ wanted a flair player, to make that pass...but knows, as does KP that he needs to improve his overall game to be considered.

The system we play has nothing to do with KPs performances...most of his bad performances are down to individual error... mostly giving the ball away, and concentration. Not LJs fault.

It doesn't help when your main striker doesn't move for you...unlike Afobe. 

Unfortunately...you just can't carry flair players with no all round game ability anymore.

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5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

He seems to fall into that JET/Tomlin/Noble/Trundle category of a highly talented player who can show flashes of brilliance.. but the the trade off is a requirement to build the entire team around him. I don't think we're quite good enough at this level to manage that. Madness to let him leave though, he can play a big part before the end of the season.

I would find it a worrying statement of intent if he was allowed to leave. My thoughts were that we would be looking to bring in a striker or two that would have a style that suited his strengths rather than let him go.

It seems madness given that we forked out between £3.5 - 4m only 4 months ago!

Are we going to be changing style again and going to hoofball - is this the strategy for the rest of the season - I sincerely hope not.

I am someone who wants to get to the PL as soon as possible ( I totally get why others feel differently) but PL football would be very exciting and give SL sustainability instantly, if managed properly.

I was very pleased that we won yesterday but lets be honest, the team we fielded won't beat too many in this league, we need to be more creative and have more guile, I was surprised that Kasey was not at least on the bench which might indicate that the Swansea rumour has some legs.  

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5 minutes ago, spudski said:

It's worth going back to interviews with KP when he signed for us.

He is quoted as saying he feels most comfortable here, it feels homely, has made good friends and that his family also like it and feel settled here.

He is also quoted as saying he came because he thought LJ could develop his all round game. He says he knows he can do more defensively and that he has struggled with fitness...hence all the extra training in the summer and now.

LJ wanted a flair player, to make that pass...but knows, as does KP that he needs to improve his overall game to be considered.

The system we play has nothing to do with KPs performances...most of his bad performances are down to individual error... mostly giving the ball away, and concentration. Not LJs fault.

It doesn't help when your main striker doesn't move for you...unlike Afobe

Unfortunately...you just can't carry flair players with no all round game ability anymore.

And there lies the root cause of the issue. I agree that Kasey needs to improve in other areas and as you rightly point out he excepts this however he finds himself going deeper and deeper to get the ball, looks up, sees no movement, then gets caught in possession.

I simply do not understand why we may be moving on a player that we signed for a significant amount only 4 months ago - its not has we did not know what we were getting!

Famara, whilst having some good moments yesterday, does not move when he should most of the time and significantly, actually has little pace, so would be unlikely to get on the end of too many through balls.

 

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6 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

And there lies the root cause of the issue. I agree that Kasey needs to improve in other areas and as you rightly point out he excepts this however he finds himself going deeper and deeper to get the ball, looks up, sees no movement, then gets caught in possession.

I simply do not understand why we may be moving on a player that we signed for a significant amount only 4 months ago - its not has we did not know what we were getting!

Famara, whilst having some good moments yesterday, does not move when he should most of the time and significantly, actually has little pace, so would be unlikely to get on the end of too many through balls.

 

I really don't think he's moving on.

Swansea may have enquired to his availability...and that is all. 

My gut is he'll stay, work hard at fitness etc.

We'll bring in a couple strikers... one's with correct movement.

He'll be used...but not right now.

That's my gut instinct.

There will be games where KP is needed...and others where Eliasson is needed.

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52 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

He seems to fall into that JET/Tomlin/Noble/Trundle category of a highly talented player who can show flashes of brilliance.. but the the trade off is a requirement to build the entire team around him. I don't think we're quite good enough at this level to manage that. Madness to let him leave though, he can play a big part before the end of the season.

I don't think he's even earned the right to be put in the same category as those players yet

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46 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

LJ said yesterday that he can't see Palmer going anywhere and that he'll soon be getting games here..

 

 

LJ knows that we can't get the best out of KP with our current front line with neither making runs behind the defence. 

From what I know it all depends on our 2 striker targets in January. We saw the way KP played with Afobe and we are looking at a striker in the same ilk, if we land our main target then KP will play. 

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

It's worth going back to interviews with KP when he signed for us.

He is quoted as saying he feels most comfortable here, it feels homely, has made good friends and that his family also like it and feel settled here.

He is also quoted as saying he came because he thought LJ could develop his all round game. He says he knows he can do more defensively and that he has struggled with fitness...hence all the extra training in the summer and now.

LJ wanted a flair player, to make that pass...but knows, as does KP that he needs to improve his overall game to be considered.

The system we play has nothing to do with KPs performances...most of his bad performances are down to individual error... mostly giving the ball away, and concentration. Not LJs fault.

It doesn't help when your main striker doesn't move for you...unlike Afobe. 

Unfortunately...you just can't carry flair players with no all round game ability anymore.

I know there has been a lot of focus on missing Afobe’s runs, but I think Nagy plays quick, progressive forward passes, and he was out injured too.  He looked good earlier this season.  His form (even though I’m a big fan) has dropped off.

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