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10 minutes ago, Agard Days Night said:

Where is he? Shallow end of the swimming pool haha because he is small :laugh:

If Lee was in a municipal pool the shallow end would be 0.9m to 1m deep, falling away at a 5-6% gradient to a maximum depth of 2m. So Lee would be out of his depth 2/3rds to 3/4s towards the deep end.

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2 hours ago, stephenkibby. said:

He thought that without the **** ups in the first 15 mins we matched them had more penalty box entries and without that mad first 15 we would have won the game.

Yes, we won that remaining 75 minutes 0:2, and without any rainbow flicks either

Edited by Moments of Pleasure
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2 hours ago, Taz said:

Agree to some extent, but let's be fair, Brentford didn't hit top gear at all, and if they really pushed on, I think we could have been looking at 6 or 7.

The ref changed the game, and had a feeling that would be the case from the first minute or so.

Watkins was booked at the same time as Williams, why we never tried to wind him up I don't know.

My thoughts entirely ! The only chance we had was them being reduced to 10 men as well ! 

With hindsight if Williams and Watkins had seen red instead of yellow for their wrestling match then it might have been a better afternoon.

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5 minutes ago, Hare Island said:

If Lee was in a municipal pool the shallow end would be 0.9m to 1m deep, falling away at a 5-6% gradient to a maximum depth of 2m. So Lee would be out of his depth 2/3rds to 3/4s towards the deep end.

You think he'd have managed to negotiate the footbath?

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21 minutes ago, RedorDead BCFC said:

Strangest point he said was “we did have more box entries than them” 

Someone should have told him they had more goal entries 🤣 strange bloke he has said this numerous times. Another one was forest at home when we had no shots on target but he was happy we had more box entries second half. 

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9 hours ago, phantom said:

Tick tock

Sadly not, I would bet on him being the HC next August, unless we get into a relegation fight - not impossible.

If it were my decision he would be gone this morning, utterly clueless and completely out of his depth.

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The worst , most depressing thing about yesterday was that it just confirmed what I'd expected to see when I set out for AG.

Brentford play fluid attacking football. They have talented individuals who have been organised into a team that is very entertaining to watch. At the same time as selling several players into prem teams.

We are trying to emulate them but in reality are light years behind. We have recruited a lightweight midfield of grafters and have no game plan that can accommodate the two talented players we do have (NE and KP).

LJ doesn't have the ability to deliver on the vision which frankly is a team like Brentford. I'm not convinced that the recruitment team has the ability to spot the right talent or mix of players either.

We are undoubtedly nothing more than a mid-table side. To get beyond that we need a massive step up and a leader who can give the players some clarity and consistency in the game plan.

I don't think we will be able to achieve that with the current team of coaches.

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12 hours ago, RedorDead BCFC said:

Strangest point he said was “we did have more box entries than them” 

He had a sort of point. For the middle third of the game, we were actually playing much better as a 10 than we had as an 11. The cohesion was better.

But - as ever - with Fam as a solo striker, and Weimann out wide - we offered little goal threat.

What killed the game for us was the decision to take off Watkins and Weimann and play without any width. We just conceded the wings and allowed them to come forward at will. If the game had gone on for another 30 minutes, it could've been 0-8.

The decision to throw on Rodri - who is about to depart us and has shown nothing while he has been here - was almost as bizarre as the decision to play Smith as a centre half.

Johnson was right in that you could take a few positives in that Diedhou and Marley Watkins played quite well.

But to focus on the small crumbs of comfort in the interview rather than the fact we lost a game in the first 13 minutes and were clearly second best, came across as far too complacent.

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13 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

He had a sort of point. For the middle third of the game, we were actually playing much better as a 10 than we had as an 11. The cohesion was better.

But - as ever - with Fam as a solo striker, and Weimann out wide - we offered little goal threat.

What killed the game for us was the decision to take off Watkins and Weimann and play without any width. We just conceded the wings and allowed them to come forward at will. If the game had gone on for another 30 minutes, it could've been 0-8.

The decision to throw on Rodri - who is about to depart us and has shown nothing while he has been here - was almost as bizarre as the decision to play Smith as a centre half.

Johnson was right in that you could take a few positives in that Diedhou and Marley Watkins played quite well.

But to focus on the small crumbs of comfort in the interview rather than the fact we lost a game in the first 13 minutes and were clearly second best, came across as far too complacent.

When he took of Watkins, I said to my wife that it would not surprise me if he took of Diedhiou next and replace him with a player that has no future left with us. Maybe he wanted a last look at Rodri or not, I don’t know. But to replace him with Weinman made less sense to me, at least with Weinman on the pitch we had a runner who could at least give the defence some breathing space. 
The “box entries” comment just annoyed me. All he had to say was for 70 minutes we held off a good attacking team. Which would of meant similar and not left him open to ridicule. I just want him to speak in normal terms, there is no need for daft phrases. 

Edited by RedorDead BCFC
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1 hour ago, robin_unreliant said:

The worst , most depressing thing about yesterday was that it just confirmed what I'd expected to see when I set out for AG.

Brentford play fluid attacking football. They have talented individuals who have been organised into a team that is very entertaining to watch. At the same time as selling several players into prem teams.

We are trying to emulate them but in reality are light years behind. We have recruited a lightweight midfield of grafters and have no game plan that can accommodate the two talented players we do have (NE and KP).

LJ doesn't have the ability to deliver on the vision which frankly is a team like Brentford. I'm not convinced that the recruitment team has the ability to spot the right talent or mix of players either.

We are undoubtedly nothing more than a mid-table side. To get beyond that we need a massive step up and a leader who can give the players some clarity and consistency in the game plan.

I don't think we will be able to achieve that with the current team of coaches.

I think a bigger problem is LJ being unable to create a good side out of a range of players- such as Brentford.

Nagy-Massengo-Brownhill as a 3.

Weimann and Eliasson as 2 of the front 3.

For a start.

Higher line- Kalas and Moore as a pair I'd like to see get a run now for a few games, see what can be created.

Common thread- LJ doesn't (IMO) know how to gt the best out of quite a few players he has- or has had.

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Out of interest does anyone know who/how Brentford do their scouting and recruitment? They seem to have been doing it rather well for quite a while with continuity through at least one change of manager.

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1 hour ago, RedorDead BCFC said:

When he took of Watkins, I said to my wife that it would not surprise me if he took of Diedhiou next and replace him with a player that has no future left with us. Maybe he wanted a last look at Rodri or not, I don’t know. But to replace him with Weinman made less sense to me, at least with Weinman on the pitch we had a runner who could at least give the defence some breathing space. 
The “box entries” comment just annoyed me. All he had to say was for 70 minutes we held off a good attacking team. Which would of meant similar and not left him open to ridicule. I just want him to speak in normal terms, there is no need for daft phrases. 

His use of industry buzz words is beginning to grate tbh and doesn't do himself any favours. Ashton used to get the same criticism but he's actually toned it down these days. I wish LJ would just say it as it is in plain language.

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think a bigger problem is LJ being unable to create a good side out of a range of players- such as Brentford.

Nagy-Massengo-Brownhill as a 3.

Weimann and Eliasson as 2 of the front 3.

For a start.

Higher line- Kalas and Moore as a pair I'd like to see get a run now for a few games, see what can be created.

Common thread- LJ doesn't (IMO) know how to gt the best out of quite a few players he has- or has had.

I've been banging on about this for some time.

He needs to get his best players on the pitch and settle on a pattern of play and let the opposition worry about us - not vice versa.

We have Massengo, Nagy, and Palmer (number 10) all struggling for regular game time - three very talented players. Fit them in the team for Christs sake and do not "over coach" them, all three are intelligent footballers and should be trusted on the pitch.

If we get Nketiah, he's going to need those players. Pointless otherwise (literally probably).

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Nomad said:

Out of interest does anyone know who/how Brentford do their scouting and recruitment? They seem to have been doing it rather well for quite a while with continuity through at least one change of manager.

I wouldn’t know what their scouting system is like. But they are a small London team renowned for passing football. A lot of foreign players only know of London and possibly see it as a stepping stone to better things. 
Even though they beat us convincingly they were good to watch with some of their passing. Their first goal was well placed pass from their goalie right where Ollie Watkins wanted it. 
 

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24 minutes ago, Nomad said:

Out of interest does anyone know who/how Brentford do their scouting and recruitment? They seem to have been doing it rather well for quite a while with continuity through at least one change of manager.

I think the owner is involved in betting and uses the people who compile odds to build up a comprehensive stats database of players.  It seems to work for them.

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7 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I think the owner is involved in betting and uses the people who compile odds to build up a comprehensive stats database of players.  It seems to work for them.

Yes it is a sort of "footballised" moneyball system using a lot of statistical analysis.

Seems to work, but you still need a good coach to gel it all together.

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2 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

The worst , most depressing thing about yesterday was that it just confirmed what I'd expected to see when I set out for AG.

Brentford play fluid attacking football. They have talented individuals who have been organised into a team that is very entertaining to watch. At the same time as selling several players into prem teams.

We are trying to emulate them but in reality are light years behind. We have recruited a lightweight midfield of grafters and have no game plan that can accommodate the two talented players we do have (NE and KP).

LJ doesn't have the ability to deliver on the vision which frankly is a team like Brentford. I'm not convinced that the recruitment team has the ability to spot the right talent or mix of players either.

We are undoubtedly nothing more than a mid-table side. To get beyond that we need a massive step up and a leader who can give the players some clarity and consistency in the game plan.

I don't think we will be able to achieve that with the current team of coaches.

I think we have a scatter gun approach to player recruitment with the only criteria being that they need to be young and have the ability to increase in value in the future.  We do not identify players based on a need within the team or fit into a particular style of football.

From the outside it looks as though because we failed to get promoted playing one way then at the end of the season Johnson rips up that plan and tries something different. As a result we have a large squad of players that look like they've been assembled by 3 or 4 different managers. You wouldn't say that it is a team that has been developed over 4 years by one manager with a clear idea and vision of how he's going to kick us on.

I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt in this regard and suggest that he doesn't have much say in the players we bring in. Maybe he says we need a striker and the recruitment team give him the option of 2 or 3 that they have been tracking and fit into our business model. And it cant be easy having to sell your best players every season, though that is no different to anyone at this level and brentford are certainly the benchmark of what can be achieved with less resources that ourselves.  

There is a manager in there somewhere, we have witnessed more points and a higher league position each year under his tenure, we have seen some great football at times under him, and he certainly has thick skin with all the criticism and vitriol that is aimed his way. But the quality of the football is currently awful and getting worse all the time, he doesn't help him self, and he really needs to take a step back, tone down the technical jargon and concentrate on the basics before trying to outwit the opposition manager, which sadly he seems to be going the opposite way and his decisions seem more baffling all the time. 

 

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23 minutes ago, city1983 said:

I think we have a scatter gun approach to player recruitment with the only criteria being that they need to be young and have the ability to increase in value in the future.  We do not identify players based on a need within the team or fit into a particular style of football.

From the outside it looks as though because we failed to get promoted playing one way then at the end of the season Johnson rips up that plan and tries something different. As a result we have a large squad of players that look like they've been assembled by 3 or 4 different managers. You wouldn't say that it is a team that has been developed over 4 years by one manager with a clear idea and vision of how he's going to kick us on.

I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt in this regard and suggest that he doesn't have much say in the players we bring in. Maybe he says we need a striker and the recruitment team give him the option of 2 or 3 that they have been tracking and fit into our business model. And it cant be easy having to sell your best players every season, though that is no different to anyone at this level and brentford are certainly the benchmark of what can be achieved with less resources that ourselves.  

There is a manager in there somewhere, we have witnessed more points and a higher league position each year under his tenure, we have seen some great football at times under him, and he certainly has thick skin with all the criticism and vitriol that is aimed his way. But the quality of the football is currently awful and getting worse all the time, he doesn't help him self, and he really needs to take a step back, tone down the technical jargon and concentrate on the basics before trying to outwit the opposition manager, which sadly he seems to be going the opposite way and his decisions seem more baffling all the time. 

 

Good post. It’s the standard and style of football that most disappoints.  
 

As for the final bit, I doubt he could cut the jargon even if he wanted to... it’s out of control.

What he could do is stop insulting the “customers” with “lots of positives” etc - makes him sound arrogant or deluded (he may well be both). It’s a 4-0 home defeat.... A 4-0 HOME DEFEAT. When has that ever been acceptable? Just be brave enough to apologise, accept some responsibility and move on. He’d earn far more respect, if he did that. 

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15 hours ago, Hare Island said:

If Lee was in a municipal pool the shallow end would be 0.9m to 1m deep, falling away at a 5-6% gradient to a maximum depth of 2m. So Lee would be out of his depth 2/3rds to 3/4s towards the deep end.

I admire your pedantry 

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8 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

Good post. It’s the standard and style of football that most disappoints.  
 

As for the final bit, I doubt he could cut the jargon even if he wanted to... it’s out of control.

What he could do is stop insulting the “customers” with “lots of positives” etc - makes him sound arrogant or deluded (he may well be both). It’s a 4-0 home defeat.... A 4-0 HOME DEFEAT. When has that ever been acceptable? Just be brave enough to apologise, accept some responsibility and move on. He’s earn far more respect, if he did that. 

"Pride goeth before the fall" unfortunately, I feel.

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16 hours ago, Chappers said:

First rule of management is damage limitation, and the non substitution made no sense. Unless we could contain Brentford a bit, there was little chance that Nic would deliver, and even if the plan of scoring had worked, there was still a very long time to hold out. I could see no other option than sacrificing Nic, as we needed graft and defence, and at 1-0, always a chance of an equaliser.

Before the game I did wonder if we might have been better going with 3CB’s, as Kalas and Williams are not the quickest. Frustrate, then if all looking good, bring on Nic during the second half. 

That's different to the first rule of Fight Club.   

Which I can't actually discuss ....  

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