Superjack Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said: Deleted as it was personal I just totally disagree with what he says And you are both entitled to disagree. Happy New Year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuber Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 Simple answer for the board, is they've invested in the squad. Do we need to invest in a better coach, or a better manager? Sporting Director perhaps to liaise with MA? But seriously, do we limit ourselves to an English coach? We may be able to attract a slightly better foreign coach who has less knowledge of our historical standing and truly look with clear view of what he could do with the facilities at disposal. Hasn't done badly as a approach for other clubs, i.e. Barnsley, Norwich, Huddersfield, Leeds, West Brom (granted Belic had experience of English football before WBA, but had he managed in the championship?), even Brentford under Thomas Frank as we oursleves saw today. There are coaches out there; Tim Walter, Heiko Herrlich, Roger Schmidt, Fabio Grosso, among others. We could follow that model. It'd be a risk - do we gamble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 7 minutes ago, Redtucks said: Not always! You've left out: From 22nd on 7th March 2017 to end 17th and From 14th on 15th December to end 8th I think three seasons running was pretty compelling! If we lose to Wigan we could find ourselves 5 points behind 6th. #worried Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashton_fan Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 It would be madness to put his position in doubt at this moment with possibly Nketiah (and/or others) about to sign, are we ready to write this season off yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Island Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 40 minutes ago, Northern Red said: Stop embarrassing yourself, there's a good lad. Interesting contribution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 11 minutes ago, Red Exile said: Is it really a “done deal” that his replacement is in the dugout? Wow if true. 14 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said: Yeah, but I ******* hope you don't mean in OUR dugout. I’m imparting my opinion - done deal probably sounds like I have some intel, which I don’t - but given how this model is run under SL, and the speaking to of continuity and of managers being replaceable but the not influencing the sum of the whole... if I was a bookie you wouldn’t get better odds than evens on Jamie McAllister next manager. We aren’t going out for a short term - like Warnock, and we aren’t going to get a stellar candidate because we just aren’t that attractive yet. We don’t have the budget - under FFP - because LJ has had most of the coins, and that’s why any Hughton sitting at interview and asking the right question says ‘no, not with the expectation and the budget you can offer’. In my opinion it’s Jamie or maybe this time Ashton gets his mate Appleton in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Island Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 Just wonder if Howe was available whether the Lansdowns would be tempted to make a big statement as they have in the rugby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppyDAZE Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Hare Island said: Just wonder if Howe was available whether the Lansdowns would be tempted to make a big statement as they have in the rugby. I wouldn't say no to EH, but then again i wouldn't say no to Jennifer Lawrence and neither option is really going to happen very soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redtucks Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 7 minutes ago, mozo said: I think three seasons running was pretty compelling! If we lose to Wigan we could find ourselves 5 points behind 6th. #worried It's not three seasons running though. This season is only half way through. You've been very selective with what you quoted. In 2018/19 it was from 14th in December to 8th at the end. And if we win at Wigan.......what then??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 15 minutes ago, Fuber said: is they've invested in the squad. 'invested' sounds like gambling talk to me and as they say, when the fun stops, stop..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 10 minutes ago, Hare Island said: Just wonder if Howe was available whether the Lansdowns would be tempted to make a big statement as they have in the rugby. If you see how close we are to FFP limit, no manager is putting their neck on the line knowing that they have to sell to buy. And certainly not on the basis that they have to be the one to get us up in one or two seasons or they will start getting questioned. Eddie Howe is like Rovers wondering if Chris Wilder would have joined them recently. Even Hughton wouldn’t put his neck on the line on us. Pearson and Pardew could have been interesting ones, because they have have opinions on their own qualities and probably the self belief. But I stand by, we have invested so much in giving LJ the tools that there are few who will want this job knowing he had all the opportunities and they now need to swiftly correct his squad counterbalance without funds unless they sell our better players. My worry is that the backing LJ has had, and the minimal return on investment, it’s a serious and significant strategic oversight by the board yet again. I feel we are potentially getting towards the position we were in with Coppell. Money and wages were committed and we couldn’t stop the rot. LJ has delivered mediocre gains on pounds spent, and I hate to think where we go if this is a plateau. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 7 minutes ago, 29AR said: I’m imparting my opinion - done deal probably sounds like I have some intel, which I don’t - but given how this model is run under SL, and the speaking to of continuity and of managers being replaceable but the not influencing the sum of the whole... if I was a bookie you wouldn’t get better odds than evens on Jamie McAllister next manager. We aren’t going out for a short term - like Warnock, and we aren’t going to get a stellar candidate because we just aren’t that attractive yet. We don’t have the budget - under FFP - because LJ has had most of the coins, and that’s why any Hughton sitting at interview and asking the right question says ‘no, not with the expectation and the budget you can offer’. In my opinion it’s Jamie or maybe this time Ashton gets his mate Appleton in. To be honest you have to ask yourself the question, would either be worse at this point. Appleton certainly has more experience than Johnson did when he was appointed. And although I wouldn't want MacAllister either, I have come to the conclusion that anyone's tactics would be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 I would be surprised if Johnson's position was under imminent threat. I mean, it wouldn't be astounding if he went, but it would surprise me given the faith Lansdown has in Lee, his preference for a long-termist approach, and the fact that Lee has banked the excuses of the last-minute NKetiah gazumping in August and Afobe's devastating injury as to why we present so little goal threat. I would not be surprised if the thought of maybe ousting him has been discussed - however informally - by the directors, but as others have said, I think Lansdown will stick with his man, at least until he tries to steady the ship with new signings. If Lee goes it'll be more likely to happen near or at the end of the season, if we seem to have gone backwards. If Lee achieves any slight advance on last term's placing, I think he'll remain in the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 minute ago, 29AR said: If you see how close we are to FFP limit, no manager is putting there neck on the line knowing they have to sell to buy. Not on the basis that they have to be the one to get us up in one or two seasons or they will start getting questioned. Eddie Howe is like Rovers wondering if Chris Wilder would have joined them recently. Even Hughton wouldn’t put his neck on the line on us. Pearson and Pardew could have been interesting ones, because they have have opinions on their own qualities and probably the self belief. But I stand by, we have invested so much in giving LJ the tools that there are few who will want this job knowing he had all the opportunities and they now need to swiftly correct his squad counterbalance without funds unless they sell our better players. My worry is that the backing LJ has had, and the minimal return on investment, it’s a serious and significant strategic oversight by the board yet again. I feel we are potentially getting towards the position we were in with Coppell. Money and wages were committed and we couldn’t stop the rot. LJ has delivered mediocre gains on pounds spent, and I hate to think where we go if this is a plateau. If we pay a manager good wages, like more than they are on at a current club or around about what they expect themselves to be on for the level of manager they are, then they will want the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 5 minutes ago, 29AR said: I’m imparting my opinion - done deal probably sounds like I have some intel, which I don’t - but given how this model is run under SL, and the speaking to of continuity and of managers being replaceable but the not influencing the sum of the whole... if I was a bookie you wouldn’t get better odds than evens on Jamie McAllister next manager. We aren’t going out for a short term - like Warnock, and we aren’t going to get a stellar candidate because we just aren’t that attractive yet. We don’t have the budget - under FFP - because LJ has had most of the coins, and that’s why any Hughton sitting at interview and asking the right question says ‘no, not with the expectation and the budget you can offer’. In my opinion it’s Jamie or maybe this time Ashton gets his mate Appleton in. If true, then that would be one hell of a call. Continuity at the expense of experience. It wouldn’t surprise me but is it really a route to success? Liverpool in the past maybe but that’s about it. The alternative is what SL did for the rugby club. He went and got the coach who had won something with an extremely unfancied team in another competition and sold him the vision. If we want success, which for SL really means getting to the Premier League and being established at that level (that’s the only way to see a return on his investment) then the latter seems by far the better option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 2 hours ago, downendcity said: Do we need to keep an eye on the Lansdown Stand roof for any announcements? We may see a helicopter approaching with “NW” on the side - that would be cause for excitement ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Superjack said: To be honest you have to ask yourself the question, would either be worse at this point. Appleton certainly has more experience than Johnson did when he was appointed. And although I wouldn't want MacAllister either, I have come to the conclusion that anyone's tactics would be better. I’m not impressed by Johnson in that he should have delivered more with the backing he has had. But that said, he is delivering improvement in position. My bigger concern is he’s leaving (budget wise) the cupboards bare. We really have backed him. It’s why I don’t see a bigger name coming here. For all the off-field improvements next boss knows his remit is promotion and it’s basically ‘this squad or whatever you can bring in but you have to sell’. It’s I am afraid to say typical SL leadership. Shit or bust. He still learning from mistakes. You don’t spend up to FFP limits; you have to offer something to a manager coming in. It’s just like we’ve gone out and signed David James, Nicky Hunt and Damien Stewart again. Belts get tight; we end up with McInnes or SOD and no money; then we need a cotteril to come in and save us when we can spend wisely once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon bristol Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 minute ago, JonDolman said: If we pay a manager good wages, like more than they are on at a current club or around about what they expect themselves to be on for the level of manager they are, then they will want the job. Yes agreed, and they will see the amount of time lj has been given, and the contract extensions and fancy some of that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 If we ever replace LJ I'm thinking Jody Morris? A gamble for sure. But the Chelsea link with their young players. But more importantly proven at developing youth aa he was their under 23s manager that won everything every season it seemed. Knows the club too of course! Whoever we get has to be willing to promote and develop youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, JonDolman said: If we pay a manager good wages, like more than they are on at a current club or around about what they expect themselves to be on for the level of manager they are, then they will want the job. I disagree. We are a job where for the next bloke the pressure is high and they will live or die by the sword. Promotion is an expectation from our next manager and they’ll be told it’s largely with this squad. Bird in the hand and all that; there will be better opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 hour ago, bredwood said: Christ! I hope you’re joking. That would be like a return to the Pulis reign. I bet you probably wouldn’t mind if Tiny came back. Why do you hope he’s joking? Employing the guy who holds the record for the most promotions ever in our game seems sensible ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Simon bristol said: Yes agreed, and they will see the amount of time lj has been given, and the contract extensions and fancy some of that too. Lee Johnson has had allowances and patience no one else would get, and everyone can see the romanticism in SL eyes has blinkered that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 Just now, 29AR said: I disagree. We are a job where for the next bloke the pressure is high and they will live or die by the sword. Promotion is an expectation from our next manager and they’ll be told it’s largely with this squad. Bird in the hand and all that; there will be better opportunities. Pretty much all manager jobs are massive challenges that could easily end up in failure. If anything this is a job where as long as the manager believes in the clubs philosophy, then they will get plenty of time to build. It's a dream job. No crazy owner. Sensibly run club. Good squad of players too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 7 minutes ago, 29AR said: I’m not impressed by Johnson in that he should have delivered more with the backing he has had. But that said, he is delivering improvement in position. My bigger concern is he’s leaving (budget wise) the cupboards bare. We really have backed him. It’s why I don’t see a bigger name coming here. For all the off-field improvements next boss knows his remit is promotion and it’s basically ‘this squad or whatever you can bring in but you have to sell’. It’s I am afraid to say typical SL leadership. Shit or bust. He still learning from mistakes. You don’t spend up to FFP limits; you have to offer something to a manager coming in. It’s just like we’ve gone out and signed David James, Nicky Hunt and Damien Stewart again. Belts get tight; we end up with McInnes or SOD and no money; then we need a cotteril to come in and save us when we can spend wisely once again. Well at the risk of sounding like a broken record... if the purse strings hadn't been pulled on Cotterill... And believe me, they were. I was told that Cotterill was a nightmare to work with on a daily basis. I had it on good authority at the time of our promotion that the powers that be already wanted him gone. If only he had been given Johnson's war chest that summer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, 29AR said: I disagree. We are a job where for the next bloke the pressure is high and they will live or die by the sword. Promotion is an expectation from our next manager and they’ll be told it’s largely with this squad. Bird in the hand and all that; there will be better opportunities. Some managers thrive on high expectations. In fact that’s what the best ones have to deal with all of the time. The issue is how much backing they will get financially. Unfortunately we can’t sell our ground to our owner to avoid FFP because he already owns it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Superjack said: Well at the risk of sounding like a broken record... if the purse strings hadn't been pulled on Cotterill... And believe me, they were. Cotterill was a nightmare to work with on a daily basis. I had it on good authority at the time of our promotion that the powers that be already wanted him gone. If only he had been given Johnson's war chest that summer... Imagine the nightmare Cotts would have been if he'd been required to regularly sell his best players in order to balance the books, bring on youth team players and buy in youngsters with potential to improve and sell on for a profit as club finances allowed or dictated and still manage to improve league position season by season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 2 hours ago, Superjack said: Yes. Where people can post their opinions about football. Usually shortly followed by some **** or other just posting "who cares?..." .....and usually that person posts ‘who cares?’ about ex players, ex managers and Scottish football then starts threads on those very subjects, a mixed up old soul he seems to be ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 6 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Why do you hope he’s joking? Employing the guy who holds the record for the most promotions ever in our game seems sensible ... In a 33-year career, it's fair to point out that he's also relegated a few and left some others worse than when he joined them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEyez Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 hour ago, DSTAF said: People defending LJ are obviously entirled to their opinion. But I would ask them all: when is the right time to replace LJ? I would say after 46 games, if we haven’t improved upon last years final league position . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 10 minutes ago, JonDolman said: Pretty much all manager jobs are massive challenges that could easily end up in failure. If anything this is a job where as long as the manager believes in the clubs philosophy, then they will get plenty of time to build. It's a dream job. No crazy owner. Sensibly run club. Good squad of players too. Again I don’t agree. This is not a nice job for the next incumbent. The expectation here is sky high - getting out of the most competitive league - when we have one striker and no money to spend. Lee Johnson got plenty of time, for romantic reasons, but we also sacked a guy who delivered the league one trophy a few months later having not really given him any money. We didn’t give SOD any money and he went (I’m not complaining on that front though). People know why LJ has been given a war chest and time. And it’s to do with relationships. Few others could expect the same. Like I said we’ve improved but our return on investment is mediocre. We are up to FFP limits, playing crap with an imbalanced squad and desperate for strikers - the most expensive position. If I was a manager building a good reputation, I wouldn’t want this job. In a pre-FFP world, definitely. Not now, not now LJ has left us with one, one-dimensional centre forward, few goals from midfield and little budget with promotion expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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