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The hand of RO'D

Johnsons position under scrutiny.

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11 hours ago, RedEyez said:

I would say after 46 games, if we haven’t improved upon last years final league position . 

Happy with 7th then, and 6th the next year failing at the semi playoff stage, then 5th, losing at the Wembley play off final, most of the time playing generally turgid, uninspiring, negative football through 23 home games, with a revolving door of speculative signings who don't fit whatever system is dreamt up on the day ?

Improving league position should only satisfy if accompanied by other improvements in my view, because if SL really wants sustainability, then the risk of diminishing matchday revenue might concern him..

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1 hour ago, Robbored said:

We all knew that SC was about to be sacked at the Senior Reds Xmas lunch when SL was guest speaker.

I think you meant to say that you learned of Cotterill's sacking, rather than that he was about to be sacked, otherwise you're conferring enormous importance in your lunches.

SL certainly will have a long to-do list when he axes a manager, but I'm hopeful telling the manager himself is a bit higher on that list than telling the Senior Reds Xmas Lunch.

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4 minutes ago, Olé said:

I think you meant to say that you learned of Cotterill's sacking, rather than that he was about to be sacked, otherwise you're conferring enormous importance in your lunches.

SL certainly will have a long to-do list when he axes a manager, but I'm hopeful telling the manager himself is a bit higher on that list than telling the Senior Reds Xmas Lunch.

SL said at the lunch that SC had said to him that he’d ‘got everything he could from the existing squad’  SL then said it didn’t believe him..........:cool2:

We glanced at each other across the table and one guy opposite ran his fore finger across his throat.......Less than 3 weeks later SC was gone.

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2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

SL said at the lunch that SC had said to him that he’d ‘got everything he could from the existing squad’  SL then said it didn’t believe him..........:cool2:

We glanced at each other across the table and one guy opposite ran his fore finger across his throat.......Less than 3 weeks later SC was gone.

essay GIF

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2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

SL said at the lunch that SC had said to him that he’d ‘got everything he could from the existing squad’  SL then said it didn’t believe him..........:cool2:

We glanced at each other across the table and one guy opposite ran his fore finger across his throat.......Less than 3 weeks later SC was gone.

If he really said that to a bunch of fans he is a ******* disgrace and deserves no respect whatsoever.

I am no fan of Lee Johnson but if SL was as publicly disloyal towards him I would feel exactly the same.

Suffice to say I am very sceptical about the conversation.

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If I hadn’t already blocked Robbored, I’d nominate him in the things that never happened awards. 

Edited by Fordy62
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@Spoons I had to check that as I thought it was a joke, but yes - according to transfermarket we’ve scored more goals than shots on target?! 

Can’t be right, surely? 

 

B7AA76FE-5C74-430C-9A38-6C4EA6E653B0.png

Edited by RedSA
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3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

We glanced at each other across the table and one guy opposite ran his fore finger across his throat.......Less than 3 weeks later SC was gone.

So unless the guy opposite you doing the execution hand gestures was a member of the Bristol City board, I think what you meant to type was you could have predicted SC would get the sack if results didn't improve but had no knowledge if he would or not, whereas you have accidentally typed you "all knew that SC was about to be sacked". Easily done, but two very different things.

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3 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

If he really said that to a bunch of fans he is a ******* disgrace and deserves no respect whatsoever.

I am no fan of Lee Johnson but if SL was as publicly disloyal towards him I would feel exactly the same.

Suffice to say I am very sceptical about the conversation.

Well.....there were around 100 others there Natch who all heard the same thing.

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14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Jamie McAllister

 

(wouldn’t be my choice, but SL said himself that when he brought him back he saw his as a future City manager)

Quite; be careful what you wish for.

The concensus of opinion on here (not mine) is that LJ has run his course and a new coach should take over.

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4 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

If I hadn’t already blocked Robbored, I’d nominate him in the things that never happened awards. 

I blocked him but couldn't resist a peek and bit i'm afraid.

Probably stroking himself as I type this !

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22 minutes ago, RedSA said:

@Spoons I had to check that as I thought it was a joke, but yes - according to transfermarket we’ve scored more goals than shots on target?! 

Can’t be right, surely? 

 

B7AA76FE-5C74-430C-9A38-6C4EA6E653B0.png

That's totally wrong, at least for us- has to be!

A better look might be Footcharts.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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2 minutes ago, Olé said:

So unless the guy opposite you doing the execution hand gestures was a member of the Bristol City board, I think what you meant to type was you could have predicted SC would get the sack if results didn't improve but had no knowledge if he would or not, whereas you have accidentally typed you "all knew that SC was about to be sacked". Easily done, but two very different things.

There were other clues that SL hinted at although he didn’t actually say SC was about to be sacked but he didn’t need to - we all drew the same conclusion.

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9 hours ago, Leveller said:

Mostly his teams come straight back down or he gets sacked because they’re looking like it. He doesn’t have a record of continued success. 

As I’ve pointed out on here on countless occasions, NW is not a premier league manager but he’s bloody good at getting teams promoted into the premier league. And as I’ve said countless times, clubs should use his experience to get into the premier league and then thank him for his efforts, pay him his bonus and move on to a premier league-capable gaffer.

I said the same about Cotts when he promoted us from league one, he ain’t a championship manager, we should thank him and replace him. We eventually did, but not with a proven championship manager unfortunately.

All the responses about NW getting relegated from the premier league are irrelevant in the context of the point I’ve continually made ...and averaging one promotion every four seasons over a career spanning three decades is, I’d say, a ‘record of continued success’ ...

Edited by BS4 on Tour...

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10 minutes ago, Robbored said:

SL said at the lunch that SC had said to him that he’d ‘got everything he could from the existing squad’  SL then said it didn’t believe him..........:cool2:

We glanced at each other across the table and one guy opposite ran his fore finger across his throat.......Less than 3 weeks later SC was gone.

And then LJ arrived and obviously shared the same a opinion as SC because he proceeded to get rid of them all anyway! 😄

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2 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

I blocked him but couldn't resist a peek and bit i'm afraid.

You’re not alone Natch - others that have me on ignore can’t resist a peek either.

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14 minutes ago, Robbored said:

SL said at the lunch that SC had said to him that he’d ‘got everything he could from the existing squad’  SL then said it didn’t believe him..........:cool2:

We glanced at each other across the table and one guy opposite ran his fore finger across his throat.......Less than 3 weeks later SC was gone.

The geriatric "Night of the long knives"  Should be turned into a BBC drama?

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3 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I think you can be a decent coach and not make a great manager. 

And IMO that’s what Johnson is. A decent coach/head coach. 

He has had the time and backing to demonstrate that he can turn us into a ‘next level’ team, ie a serious threat to the playoffs. This will be his fourth full season here and the fourth one in which we will not finish in the playoffs - IMO. 

It’s time for fresh ideas. The evidence is there that we are not a serious threat to the top six under his management. 

He’s done a lot of good here and it should be changed while he can still walk out the building with his head held high. It’s going to get toxic again with another couple of defeats, and he doesn’t deserve to be jeered out of the club for the good he’s done, which people are very quick to forget. 

As for your last paragraph, believe it or not, I form my opinions based on what I see not interviews with old players. I couldn’t give a toss if Wilbs didn’t rate him tbh. He’s developed better players than Wilbs and enhanced their value. 

I agree with you on the coaching point. LJ may well have some fresh ideas that work at some level. Just think he’s run out of ideas for our first team set up. 

Ashton Gate will never be ‘toxic’ so he has no worries there. And I don’t think LJ will get jeered out of the club. I may be wrong. He’s just come to the end I think, that’s all. That doesn’t need too much drama.

With regards to you saying you base your opinions on what you see and not from interviews - how did you come to the opinion that all the players you’ve seen discussing LJ think he’s a great coach then? It you didn’t get their opinions from interviews, where did you get them from? 

 

Edited by BS4 on Tour...

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8 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

I agree with you on the coaching point. LJ may well have some fresh ideas that work at some level. Just think he’s run out of ideas for our first team set up. 

Ashton Gate will never be ‘toxic’ so he’s no worries there. And I don’t think LJ will get jeered out of the club. I may be wrong. He’s just come to the end I think, that’s all. That doesn’t need too much drama.

With regards to you saying you base your opinions on what you see and not from interviews - how did you come to the opinion that all the players you’ve seen discussing LJ think he’s a great coach then? It you didn’t get their opinions from interviews, where did you get them from? 

Stop trying to pick a fight on semantics, it’s really tedious.

I’m talking about the opinion that he’s a capable coach but reached his maximum capability as a manager for this club. I’ve drawn that opinion all by myself and Wilbs has nothing to do with it. I’ve not even heard the full interview.

Regards the bolded bit - I didn’t say ‘all the players who have discussed LJ think he’s a great coach’.

What I said was that when I’ve seen a player discussing his coaching ability, it’s been positive. And it’s not an opinion, it’s a fact. I’ve never seen or heard a player be critical of his coaching, have you? 

Even Hörður’s relative that posted on here said Mags was complimentary about his coaching, but clearly they didn’t think the same about his ability as a manager. They are not one and the same.

I’ve never seen City train, but I imagine that on the training ground is where you see the best of Johnson. I imagine he’s a quite capable coach in a controlled scenario where he’s in charge of the variables. 

That doesn’t always translate into a real game where the opposition play in a different manner and you have to react on the fly to circumstances beyond your control. 

IMO Johnson has taken this squad as far as he can. He’s had four seasons and significant financial backing to turn us into genuine contenders for the top six and failed to do so. 

It’s time for new ideas. 

Edited by BRISTOL86

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12 hours ago, CityCiderEd said:

To be honest how many people that watch regularly either live or TV have any idea how we will line up or team selection from one game to the next. Our identity that propelled LJ to nationwide recognition was the high tempo/press which was a joy to watch and saw us playing great football. That's now a faded memory and apart from a few odd games the football is negative at home and quite boring but still decent away from home most of the time. How much longer will the fans put up with let's see if he can turn it around because this now happens on a much more regular basis. He still seems unsure of his best 11 and even more unsure of his tactics and he is being found out by more managers/coaches at the Gate this season..He said he wanted 3 windows to get his team but this one I think is his 8th. Year on year progression maybe but it's also year on year of making the same mistakes.

This nails it for me. I've always been more pro than anti Johnson as he has delivered steady progress and the foundations for a push for the Prem look to be there. However, what he now considers as our 'identity'/'DNA'/'insert corporate metaphor' really isn't very clear and for most of this season we haven't looked to have been playing with any particular sort of plan. Initially I thought the fact we were playing badly and winning was a massive positive but obviously things have gone south since then and I think this lack of clear idea of how we want to play has a part in that.

In the immediate term I can't see Johnson getting the boot but if things carry on as they have been and we start dropping in to the bottom half then I don't think SL will be slow in getting rid. A shame from my perspective as a few times it's looked like Johnson is the man to keep pushing us forward but it could well be that he doesn't see out the season.

If LJ does go though, I can't see any obvious replacements. I know a few people on here like Warnock and Hughton but I can't say I'm convinced either are the answer. Someone from abroad maybe?

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33 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

.

Cotts is a great lower league manager, but he's only been consistent at a higher level with Burnley - and their season finishes are below those achieved by Johnson. His second tier time at Pompey and Forest was poor.

 

Have to disagree.

Portsmouth and Forest was basket case clubs when he joined them. Portsmouth were constantly on the point of liquidation and his performance there had him regularly linked with other clubs. Forest were a mess at the time and it was very much a firefighting exercise.

Not brilliant at Forest, but certainly not 'poor' under the circumstances. He avoided relegation by 10 points, and that, along with steadying the club, was his main task when appointed.

In fact to describe either managerial spells as 'poor' is simply wrong imo.

What he showed was he could withstand enormous pressure and keep his clubs stable with little or no money to spend.

At Burnley he had to sell his best players every season without having the luxury of spending all the money on replacements yet became the longest serving manager in the Championship

What he could have done at City, if backed immediately after promotion, is something I imagine all City fans will forever wonder about.

 

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4 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Have to disagree.

Portsmouth and Forest was basket case clubs when he joined them. Portsmouth were constantly on the point of liquidation and his performance there had him regularly linked with other clubs. Forest were a mess at the time and it was very much a firefighting exercise.

Not brilliant at Forest, but certainly not 'poor' under the circumstances. He avoided relegation by 10 points, and that, along with steadying the club, was his main task when appointed.

In fact to describe either managerial spells as 'poor' is simply wrong imo.

What he showed was he could withstand enormous pressure and keep his clubs stable with little or no money to spend.

At Burnley he had to sell his best players every season without having the luxury of spending all the money on replacements yet became the longest serving manager in the Championship

What he could have done at City, if backed immediately after promotion, is something I imagine all City fans will forever wonder about.

 

Why has nobody snapped Cotts up? He's been available for some time.

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45 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Cotts is a great lower league manager, but he's only been consistent at a higher level with Burnley - and their season finishes are below those achieved by Johnson. His second tier time at Pompey and Forest was poor.

Umm.... your entitled to your opinion but sometimes blinkered views get in the way of the facts..... left Portsmouth & Forest in better positions then when he started. 

Portsmouth = 2 Administrations and 3 sets of owners. 

Forest = Took over from McClaren when bottom and finished mid-table, sacked when new owners came in with nothing to do with results. 

City.... well we all know what happened there.... Bottom at Christmas To Mid Table to Champions in 18 Months..... 

As I said... don't let facts get in the way of agendas as it spoils the tone of the forum. 

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Though I see why we were cautious too financially for one more year, had Cotts fully bought into that he would have benefited from the increased backing that LJ has had, as I assume we at least might have been lower midtable.

Bit surprising just how poor we were that season under SC though.,..had much higher hopes for that squad!

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3 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Stop trying to pick a fight on semantics, it’s really tedious.

I’m talking about the opinion that he’s a capable coach but reached his maximum capability as a manager for this club. I’ve drawn that opinion all by myself and Wilbs has nothing to do with it. I’ve not even heard the full interview.

Regards the bolded bit - I didn’t say ‘all the players who have discussed LJ think he’s a great coach’.

What I said was that when I’ve seen a player discussing his coaching ability, it’s been positive. And it’s not an opinion, it’s a fact. I’ve never seen or heard a player be critical of his coaching, have you? 

Even Hörður’s relative that posted on here said Mags was complimentary about his coaching, but clearly they didn’t think the same about his ability as a manager. They are not one and the same.

I’ve never seen City train, but I imagine that on the training ground is where you see the best of Johnson. I imagine he’s a quite capable coach in a controlled scenario where he’s in charge of the variables. 

That doesn’t always translate into a real game where the opposition play in a different manner and you have to react on the fly to circumstances beyond your control. 

IMO Johnson has taken this squad as far as he can. He’s had four seasons and significant financial backing to turn us into genuine contenders for the top six and failed to do so. 

It’s time for new ideas. 

I’m not picking a fight - i’m asking you how you formed an opinion about players’ thoughts if (as you say) you don’t form opinions from seeing/listening to interviews.

And you’ve basically confirmed above you formed that opinion from interviews....”When I’ve seen a player discussing his (LJ’s) coaching ability, it’s been positive...” - we’ll, I’m assuming you mean interviews when you wrote that line. 

You can see why I’m confused. 

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9 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Why has nobody snapped Cotts up? He's been available for some time.

Not interested.

All I know is he was great for City, and may well have been greater still if the club had given him the backing he had surely earned after that fantastic promotion season..

Right man, right club, right time.

It happens but rarely but when it does you damn well count your blessings and make the most of it.

Edited by Nogbad the Bad
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13 hours ago, DSTAF said:

People defending LJ are obviously entirled to their opinion. But I would ask them all: when is the right time to replace LJ?

I have suggested a review towards the end of the season.

 I don’t think SL will pull the plug on LJ before that for several reasons ;

1) Plans are already in place for the January window and to change personnel at this late stage could result in a disasterous outcome.

2) He didn’t get rid of LJ during our last terrible run and may feel that he was right then and will be right now .

3) The financial implications of an overhaul of coaching staff are huge , both in severing contracts with those leaving and bringing in new coaches who will want decent contracts , not even counting on compensation if we approach someone already employed elsewhere.

4) We are not going down and there is still a good chance that we’ll find form with one or two player changes.

5) LJ has been instrumental in improving the value of players that we have sold for big money which has helped balance the books.

This list is not exhaustive.

Personally I feel LJ seems close to burnout and I am not sure that he can continue at the level he has without taking a step back .

The guy works his socks off for the club and is highly motivated to get success here , I think he will know if he can’t continue.

 

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11 minutes ago, TETBURY MASSIVE said:

Umm.... your entitled to your opinion but sometimes blinkered views get in the way of the facts..... left Portsmouth & Forest in better positions then when he started. 

Portsmouth = 2 Administrations and 3 sets of owners. 

Forest = Took over from McClaren when bottom and finished mid-table, sacked when new owners came in with nothing to do with results. 

City.... well we all know what happened there.... Bottom at Christmas To Mid Table to Champions in 18 Months..... 

As I said... don't let facts get in the way of agendas as it spoils the tone of the forum. 

What I wouldn’t give to rewind the time. 

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42 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Not interested.

All I know is he was great for City, and may well have been greater still if the club had given him the backing he had surely earned after that fantastic promotion season..

Right man, right club, right time.

It happens but rarely but when it does you damn well count your blessings and make the most of it.

Could you factor in financial reality as the club was growing and FFP vs the backing- notably but not exclusively for Gayle- that you are presumably referring to?

Our turnover- our entire turnover- in 2015/16 was £14,175,396. Our expenditure on wages (that isn't just football granted but surely more than 100% is) was £17,432,898.

Gayle? No. Maguire or Gray- possibly but we were competing with Parachute clubs or we lost out to them on those 2.

Granted we could have sold them big down the line, but at that time, elements of what Cotts wanted seemed to be just not that feasible!

Maybe I'm overstating it but Gayle certainly wouldn't have been.

EFL FFP regs and Bristol City Holdings- worth a look?

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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6 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Have to disagree.

Portsmouth and Forest was basket case clubs when he joined them. Portsmouth were constantly on the point of liquidation and his performance there had him regularly linked with other clubs. Forest were a mess at the time and it was very much a firefighting exercise.

Not brilliant at Forest, but certainly not 'poor' under the circumstances. He avoided relegation by 10 points, and that, along with steadying the club, was his main task when appointed.

In fact to describe either managerial spells as 'poor' is simply wrong imo.

What he showed was he could withstand enormous pressure and keep his clubs stable with little or no money to spend.

At Burnley he had to sell his best players every season without having the luxury of spending all the money on replacements yet became the longest serving manager in the Championship

What he could have done at City, if backed immediately after promotion, is something I imagine all City fans will forever wonder about.

 

 

1 minute ago, TETBURY MASSIVE said:

Umm.... your entitled to your opinion but sometimes blinkered views get in the way of the facts..... left Portsmouth & Forest in better positions then when he started. 

Portsmouth = 2 Administrations and 3 sets of owners. 

Forest = Took over from McClaren when bottom and finished mid-table, sacked when new owners came in with nothing to do with results. 

City.... well we all know what happened there.... Bottom at Christmas To Mid Table to Champions in 18 Months..... 

As I said... don't let facts get in the way of agendas as it spoils the tone of the forum. 

 

I have no agenda, but I know both sets of supporters (Forest and Portsmouth) were delighted to see him leave. Forest had 3 managers in the next season and finished 11 places higher; Portsmouth admittedly jumped from the frying pan to the fire with Appleton, but MA had to release 10 first team players. You have to wonder would Cotterill have done any better had he stayed. 

The City stat you quote @TETBURY MASSIVE just proves what I wrote. He is a truly great lower league manager. Never tasted higher success however.

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2 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

 Liam Kelly went the other way 

Who'd have thought it? :) 

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30 minutes ago, maxjak said:

The geriatric "Night of the long knives"  Should be turned into a BBC drama?

Take over where “Last of the Summer Wine” left off 😆

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11 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

I’m not picking a fight - i’m asking you how you formed an opinion about players’ thoughts if (as you say) you don’t form opinions from seeing/listening to interviews.

And you’ve basically confirmed above you formed that opinion from interviews....”When I’ve seen a player discussing his (LJ’s) coaching ability, it’s been positive...” - we’ll, I’m assuming you mean interviews when you wrote that line. 

You can see why I’m confused. 

You’re confused because you’re taking my stance on two entirely different matters and conflating them. 

For the avoidance of any doubt 

I believe the time is right to change the man at the helm because Johnson has taken us as far as he can. That’s an opinion, of mine, based on what I see on the pitch at Ashton Gate. For further clarity, that opinion was formed of my own free will and without the involvement of Aaron Wilbraham.

None of that changes the fact that when I’ve seen or heard people discussing his coaching it’s been complimentary. Once again, I’ll ask you, have you seen or heard anything to the contrary? 

I have absolutely no idea why you’re determined to make this so complicated and resurrect the same discussion we had weeks ago. But I hope I’ve managed to clear up some of your confusion, and we can stop derailing a decent thread - because you are intent on debating semantics - when you’ve completely got the wrong end of the stick in the first place. 

Edited by BRISTOL86

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56 minutes ago, Olé said:

I think you meant to say that you learned of Cotterill's sacking, rather than that he was about to be sacked, otherwise you're conferring enormous importance in your lunches.

SL certainly will have a long to-do list when he axes a manager, but I'm hopeful telling the manager himself is a bit higher on that list than telling the Senior Reds Xmas Lunch.

Perhaps SL doesn't listen to the board, but does listen to senior reds?

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14 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I'd be surprised if there were serious conversations taking place in regard to LJs position, as of now. Very surprised. 

I think his position remains secure for the time being. 

Agree completely! I'll publicly remove my underwear on the centre circle at half-time and consume it if he's gone before the end of the season. The only caveat is if we keep plunging and plunge into the relegation zone. If that happens I can see a seasoned head being bought in prior to the end of the season with the carrot of a large bonus for keeping us up or a permanent position. I think we'll get another odd wins and draws to stop that occurring but we'll finish a lot lower than last year. LJ's comments, tactical decisions and squaring up to the opposition management on a regular basis are big concerns.

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5 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

 

I have no agenda, but I know both sets of supporters (Forest and Portsmouth) were delighted to see him leave. Forest had 3 managers in the next season and finished 11 places higher; Portsmouth admittedly jumped from the frying pan to the fire with Appleton, but MA had to release 10 first team players. You have to wonder would Cotterill have done any better had he stayed. 

The City stat you quote @TETBURY MASSIVE just proves what I wrote. He is a truly great lower league manager. Never tasted higher success however.

A few anecdotal accounts from fans on forums who may well have had their own agenda ( e.g. simply didn't like Cotterill) are not good enough.

The facts speak for themselves, and they are highly in Cotterill's favour at both clubs.

They shout loudly that you are wrong when you describe his managerial stints at those clubs as 'poor', and having been pulled up on that wildly inaccurate comment with facts to the contrary you really should accept that.

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36 minutes ago, maxjak said:

I'd be grateful if someone could point me in the direction of this Wilbraham interview that is being referred to?  Please.

Think it's this. From about 1.45 hr

 

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43 minutes ago, maxjak said:

The geriatric "Night of the long knives"  Should be turned into a BBC drama?

Agreed East Enders and coronation street is more entertaining on these threads. I think every one is saying sack him and why do they not just say it.

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8 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

A few anecdotal accounts from fans on forums who may well have had their own agenda ( e.g. simply didn't like Cotterill) are not good enough.

The facts speak for themselves, and they are highly in Cotterill's favour at both clubs.

They shout loudly that you are wrong when you describe his managerial stints at those clubs as 'poor', and having been pulled up on that wildly inaccurate comment with facts to the contrary you really should accept that.

If finishing 19th is good then Johnson must be great! As I said, next season they had the same owners, the same chaos, but finished 8th

Cotts has simply never succeeded above third tier level - but it's always someone else's fault, apparently.

Oh and I'm not going by "a few anecdotal reports" about his time there. I know some fans both from down here and from my time working in Nottingham. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Rich_s said:

Agree completely! I'll publicly remove my underwear on the centre circle at half-time and consume it if he's gone before the end of the season. The only caveat is if we keep plunging and plunge into the relegation zone. If that happens I can see a seasoned head being bought in prior to the end of the season with the carrot of a large bonus for keeping us up or a permanent position. I think we'll get another odd wins and draws to stop that occurring but we'll finish a lot lower than last year. LJ's comments, tactical decisions and squaring up to the opposition management on a regular basis are big concerns.

Looking at summer signings I think LJ had determined the way he wanted to play this season.

Signing Dasilva and Kalas permanently kept in place half of last seasons solid defence. Nagy, Palmer and initially Nketiah were the basis of a more positive attacking style, with Afobe coming in when the Nketiah deal feel through.

Unfortunately, these  plans went out of the window with injuries to Dasilv, Afobe, Kalas  and Nagy, all compounded by further injuries to Hunt and Moore.With hindsight, I get the feeling that LJ has become increasingly frustrated by having to make do and mend  with team selection through much of the season, never having what would have been first choices available. 

Unfortunately when he has got injured players back, for whatever reason it has not gone well - it's gone badly in fact -  and perhaps his sideline antics, along with the return of his public criticism of players,  are a sign of that frustration boiling over. In any line of work, seeing your boss losing his rag is not good for employees confidence.

I think LJ has enough in the bank to keep his job for now, but how he conducts himself could change that - he only has to look back to his Dad's demise to see how things can change very quickly. 

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20 minutes ago, Rich_s said:

I'll publicly remove my underwear on the centre circle at half-time and consume it if he's gone before the end of the season.

Please SL don't fire LJ.........

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31 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Could you factor in financial reality as the club was growing and FFP vs the backing- notably but not exclusively for Gayle- that you are presumably referring to?

Our turnover- our entire turnover- in 2015/16 was £14,175,396. Our expenditure on wages (that isn't just football granted but surely more than 100% is) was £17,432,898.

Gayle? No. Maguire or Gray- possibly but we were competing with Parachute clubs or we lost out to them on those 2.

Granted we could have sold them big down the line, but at that time, elements of what Cotts wanted seemed to be just not that feasible!

Maybe I'm overstating it but Gayle certainly wouldn't have been.

That's the crux of it isn't it - he could identify very good players but ultimately the finances weren't workable. Ties into the rumours about the deals being scuppered behind his back too. 

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2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

That's the crux of it isn't it - he could identify very good players but ultimately the finances weren't workable. Ties into the rumours about the deals being scuppered behind his back too. 

Genuinely think that had he waited a year, maybe 2 but certainly a year he would have been able to build on our promotion squad quite well. Not saying we necessarily have a poor squad now, but LJ cannot get the best out of it IMO.

That would have taken a level of patience hitherto unseen by Cotts though- probably the club were trying to get the deals down to fit our financial plan/FFP which would make sense when it comes to the deals being scuppered claims.

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3 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

If finishing 19th is good then Johnson must be great! As I said, next season they had the same owners, the same chaos, but finished 8th

Cotts has simply never succeeded above third tier level - but it's always someone else's fault, apparently.

Oh and I'm not going by "a few anecdotal reports" about his time there. I know some fans both from down here and from my time working in Nottingham. 

 

It's still the opinion of a few fans, meaningless in the wider context.

'Always someone else's fault apparently'  ... Mmm - sounds like you don't like Cotterill and this is tarnishing your view.

He was a success at Burnley - I doubt he'd have become the longest serving Championship manager otherwise.

Anyway, I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone with such a fixed view, and unwilling to alter it one iota even when presented with undeniable facts to the contrary.

Just to reiterate you were completely wrong in describing his tenures at Pompey and Forest as 'poor'.

 l''ll leave the exchange on that note.

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3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Genuinely think that had he waited a year, maybe 2 but certainly a year he would have been able to build on our promotion squad quite well. Not saying we necessarily have a poor squad now, but LJ cannot get the best out of it IMO.

That would have taken a level of patience hitherto unseen by Cotts though- probably the club were trying to get the deals down to fit our financial plan/FFP which would make sense when it comes to the deals being scuppered claims.

I think Cotterill, a bit like Gary Johnson, is a short term manager. He's not necessarily that bothered about sustainability and the long term - but the current season and maybe the one after. 

This has an impact on how he recruits and probably why there was clearly a disconnect between him and the board on how to recruit in that summer. 

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5 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

It's still the opinion of a few fans, meaningless in the wider context.

'Always someone else's fault apparently'  ... Mmm - sounds like you don't like Cotterill and this is tarnishing your view.

He was a success at Burnley - I doubt he'd have become the longest serving Championship manager otherwise.

Anyway, I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone with such a fixed view, and unwilling to alter it one iota even when presented with undeniable facts to the contrary.

Just to reiterate you were completely wrong in describing his tenures at Pompey and Forest as 'poor'.

 l''ll leave the exchange on that note.

The thing is Noggers that we have a fan base divided over LJ's tenure here, with some regarding the year on year progress as good, while others pull it apart based on a variety of factors           

( including his height in some cases!).

That being the case, it is hardly surprising that those same fans will have differing opinions on Cotts success, or otherwise, as a manager.

Ask City fans to name our best 11 currently and you would probably end up with as many permutations as LJ has managed so far this season, so to expect unanimity on anything is a big ask.

 

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5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think Cotterill, a bit like Gary Johnson, is a short term manager. He's not necessarily that bothered about sustainability and the long term - but the current season and maybe the one after. 

This has an impact on how he recruits and probably why there was clearly a disconnect between him and the board on how to recruit in that summer. 

....and that would have put him in direct conflict with SL when addressing the owners long term plans for moving towards sustainability.

In any line of work, it doesn't matter how good a manager you are, if you're not prepared to accept and work within your boss's plans and instructions there is only one way it will end.

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1 hour ago, TETBURY MASSIVE said:

Umm.... your entitled to your opinion but sometimes blinkered views get in the way of the facts..... left Portsmouth & Forest in better positions then when he started. 

Portsmouth = 2 Administrations and 3 sets of owners. 

Forest = Took over from McClaren when bottom and finished mid-table, sacked when new owners came in with nothing to do with results. 

City.... well we all know what happened there.... Bottom at Christmas To Mid Table to Champions in 18 Months..... 

As I said... don't let facts get in the way of agendas as it spoils the tone of the forum. 

Didn’t the chairman that brought him in die suddenly?

54 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

What I wouldn’t give to rewind the time. 

43A6DAE8-818B-40F9-BDED-74D9B73E3680.jpeg.199525509860d4b79f686dbfc0a50153.jpeg

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