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Firstly, I want to say thanks to LJ for establishing us in the Championship. I do however feel the following stats support the need for change.

We have won 10 out of 26 starts this season 

The form table covering the last six games sees us in 22nd position in the table, in the relegation zone

We have a negative goal difference when assessing the season as a whole

We have won just 5 out of the 13 home games this season, hardly a fortress and being honest in never has been under LJ

LJ has never managed a team to promotion.

If you throw in the apparent disarray and fact something is clearly wrong within the club,  it's  clear that it is sadly time for change. Is it just us fans that believe he spouts a load of unbelievable rubbish?

On a personal note, I've been a ST for  a couple of decades and I have to say the football is amongst the most boring I've seen is my thirty or so years in following the City. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, PFree said:

 

If you throw in the apparent disarray and fact something is clearly wrong within the club,  it's  clear that it is sadly time for change. Is it just us fans that believe he spouts a load of unbelievable rubbish?

On a personal note, I've been a ST for  a couple of decades and I have to say the football is amongst the most boring I've seen is my thirty or so years in following the City. 

 

 

What disarray? We're 11th in the Championship.

And what is "clearly wrong" with our club? Getting humped by Brentford?? 

Explain yerself a bit more....

The SO'D era was worse. Even if he was beginning to turn it around....

 

1 hour ago, PFree said:

 

If you throw in the apparent disarray and fact something is clearly wrong within the club,  it's  clear that it is sadly time for change. Is it just us fans that believe he spouts a load of unbelievable rubbish?

On a personal note, I've been a ST for  a couple of decades and I have to say the football is amongst the most boring I've seen is my thirty or so years in following the City. 

 

 

What disarray? We're 11th in the Championship.

And what is "clearly wrong" with our club? Getting humped by Brentford?? 

Explain yerself a bit more....

The SO'D era was worse. Even if he was beginning to turn it around....

 

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5 minutes ago, Notbarrymanc said:

Boring football? Against Fulham we were actual sex. 
 

Home form is definitely a concern, unfortunately it’s fuelled by fickle ***** preferring a moan to actually supporting the team. 

When my nipper was younger I didn't need my neighbours cheering me to make a successful pass to the other end of my back garden.

Our pass success rate has little to do with the fans. 

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The reality is...WBA and Leeds are a cut above everyone in this league.

After that, every team is pretty much the same ability.

It's a mental league.

Brentford sit third, yet they've lost more games than us, and if we had beaten them today, been above them.

14th to 3rd is just two wins difference. 

It's so close, the league table will change weekly dramatically.

You've only got to watch and see results of different games every week to see how unpredictable it is.

Literally, anyone can beat anyone.

Yes another frustrating day...but it is for pretty much every team. Look at Fulham and others...

The game was lost on a sending off and from two individual mistakes.

Fans can say LJ bought these players, but Williams, Kalas and Hunt have been very good in general, so I'm not sure how you can blame him.

For me...if there was ever to be a change of coach, it should be planned, not knee jerk and done end of season.

I still think we'll end up anywhere between mid table to play off position.

And if play off position and mid table is a couple wins difference over a season, would it be fair?

Bottom half and lucky to avoid relegation then I'd definitely reconsider.

Just judging everything with a level head and looking at every team, result and performance in this league.

The one thing I did admire today, was Brentford. How they recruit and play...a lot less budget and they play with flair and so entertaining to watch.

When LJ says they have such quality...you have to stop and ask yourself how they recruit and develop such quality with so little revenue. It's far more than moneyball...and the one thing they do and have done with different managers, is play with a distinct 'Identity'.

Something I personally admire.

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50 minutes ago, spudski said:

The reality is...WBA and Leeds are a cut above everyone in this league.

After that, every team is pretty much the same ability.

It's a mental league.

Brentford sit third, yet they've lost more games than us, and if we had beaten them today, been above them.

14th to 3rd is just two wins difference. 

It's so close, the league table will change weekly dramatically.

You've only got to watch and see results of different games every week to see how unpredictable it is.

Literally, anyone can beat anyone.

Yes another frustrating day...but it is for pretty much every team. Look at Fulham and others...

The game was lost on a sending off and from two individual mistakes.

Fans can say LJ bought these players, but Williams, Kalas and Hunt have been very good in general, so I'm not sure how you can blame him.

For me...if there was ever to be a change of coach, it should be planned, not knee jerk and done end of season.

I still think we'll end up anywhere between mid table to play off position.

And if play off position and mid table is a couple wins difference over a season, would it be fair?

Bottom half and lucky to avoid relegation then I'd definitely reconsider.

Just judging everything with a level head and looking at every team, result and performance in this league.

The one thing I did admire today, was Brentford. How they recruit and play...a lot less budget and they play with flair and so entertaining to watch.

When LJ says they have such quality...you have to stop and ask yourself how they recruit and develop such quality with so little revenue. It's far more than moneyball...and the one thing they do and have done with different managers, is play with a distinct 'Identity'.

Something I personally admire.

Pretty much agree with most you have said, although I seen on another thread that Brentford have spent 25 million this year, similar to us with no doubt a similar wage bill

It seems the easy answer to blame the manager for everything and also believe changing the manager will be some miracle cure. I have to laugh at some of the posters on here, not long ago raving about our players and new signings, yet a few bad results mainly due to individual errors and its all LJ's fault they are not playing well, or he has to take responsibility because he signed them. The selection and formation is wrong although it was ok when we were winning games, yet the same posters knocking with hindsight cannot even agree on a consensus of our best team. I do not agree with all LJ does, and sometimes he gets it very wrong, as do most of the managers out there, but they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

I am not an LJ fan, but think we have moved forward despite selling our best players each year and been very unlucky with injuries, so think he should be afforded this transfer window and removed if not in or around the playoffs come the end of the season

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5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'd be surprised if Brentford and us have a similar wage bill.

Would be interesting to see where they recruit from too. Which clubs, which Leagues. 

Looking at their squad on the back of the programme it’s mostly Europe, and particularly Denmark, as well as France (Maupay, Benramha). Their owner also owns Midjtylland in Denmark, plus is an advocate of Moneyball.

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16 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'd be surprised if Brentford and us have a similar wage bill.

Would be interesting to see where they recruit from too. Which clubs, which Leagues. 

Details of where they signed players from;

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/brentford-fc/kader/verein/1148/saison_id/2019/plus/1

Over 28m spent on players this season;

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-brentford/transfers/verein/1148/saison_id/2019

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14 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'd be surprised if Brentford and us have a similar wage bill.

Would be interesting to see where they recruit from too. Which clubs, which Leagues. 

What they won’t have is a squad the size of ours - so what wages they pay will go further and raise the quality level. 

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3 hours ago, Notbarrymanc said:

Boring football? Against Fulham we were actual sex. 
 

Home form is definitely a concern, unfortunately it’s fuelled by fickle ***** preferring a moan to actually supporting the team. 

That's the worst bit, we can actually play sexy football so why don't we do it more...?

I'm guessing that it is down to the manager's football by numbers instructions

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3 hours ago, CotswoldRed said:

When my nipper was younger I didn't need my neighbours cheering me to make a successful pass to the other end of my back garden.

Our pass success rate has little to do with the fans. 

It absolutely does if there’s a nervy atmosphere and audible groans when passes go astray. It adds pressure to an already diminished confidence level put under a press by opposition players.

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6 hours ago, MarcusX said:

It absolutely does if there’s a nervy atmosphere and audible groans when passes go astray. It adds pressure to an already diminished confidence level put under a press by opposition players.

There's barely a whimper of discontent at Ashton Gate. It's virtually silent. 

The players get no grief in footballing terms. 

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People rave about that win at Fulham and rightly so, but some of the claims are questionable. 

We had some strong passages of play and 2nd goal in particular was lovely. The higher line also helped.

For all of this though, we did only have about 1/3 possession. Less shots too and had to absorb some pressure- fully understandable up there but things like this can possibly be overlooked.

We were nice and cohesive however and it was a great plus deserved win, but not necessarily a dominant one. 

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1 hour ago, Badger08 said:

This.  Aston Villa were 13th in March last year.  Just let that sit for a while. 

one thing we are not is Aston Villa they are a big club and massive fanbase ,we have built the foundations but i feel things are starting to crumble and the gates will fall for the 1st time next season i really think we have the players but the performances all season have been below par except for a couple of games

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1 hour ago, Badger08 said:

This.  Aston Villa were 13th in March last year.  Just let that sit for a while. 

But they were brave enough to have just made the change. 
 

I love how you’ve tried to use this as a stick with LJ argument but it’s completely the opposite! ???

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13 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Lazy excuse. Not to mention the fact that it’s bull shit. 

A compelling argument.

 

We are better away from home, a portion of that sits with the fans. Away fans are very good and can carry the team at times. Home fans are toxic. You only had to look at the reaction of the players yesterday when the Eliasson sub got booed. They were shitting themselves. 

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3 hours ago, CotswoldRed said:

There's barely a whimper of discontent at Ashton Gate. It's virtually silent. 

The players get no grief in footballing terms. 

Can’t agree with you here. Ashton Gate is very quiet i admit but the grumbles of discontent start very quickly with a few miss placed passes. Not sure how much it actually affects the players mind you but it definatly happens.

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6 minutes ago, Notbarrymanc said:

A compelling argument.

 

We are better away from home, a portion of that sits with the fans. Away fans are very good and can carry the team at times. Home fans are toxic. You only had to look at the reaction of the players yesterday when the Eliasson sub got booed. They were shitting themselves. 

I don't think they were, I think they realised that they were going to be on the end of a drubbing, which was obvious before the red card. There were a huge amount of individual mistakes yesterday and that is because LJ selected the wrong team and the wrong formation.

Yesterday should have been 3-5-2. With Pedro and Rowe the wing - backs.

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2 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

I don't think they were, I think they realised that they were going to be on the end of a drubbing, which was obvious before the red card. There were a huge amount of individual mistakes yesterday and that is because LJ selected the wrong team and the wrong formation.

Yesterday should have been 3-5-2. With Pedro and Rowe the wing - backs.

A big number of people were saying 3-5-2 at home is a no no. That we should be more positive at home and not worry so much about the opposition. 

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2 minutes ago, GTFABM said:

A big number of people were saying 3-5-2 at home is a no no. That we should be more positive at home and not worry so much about the opposition. 

3-5-2 can be very offensive, the reason I would have went that way would be to try and stop Brentford playing their triangles in the middle of the pitch.

I would have had Nagy and HNM in there as starters using their energy and movement.

Brownhill - Mr Undropable - was again utterly ineffective. And whilst I am at it he is no leader and needs the armband taken off him pronto.

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2 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

3-5-2 can be very offensive, the reason I would have went that way would be to try and stop Brentford playing their triangles in the middle of the pitch.

I would have had Nagy and HNM in there as starters using their energy and movement.

Brownhill - Mr Undropable - was again utterly ineffective. And whilst I am at it he is no leader and needs the armband taken off him pronto.

Agree largely, though not necessarily on Brownhill in general. Possibly not captaincy material though.

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1 minute ago, ScottishRed said:

3-5-2 can be very offensive, the reason I would have went that way would be to try and stop Brentford playing their triangles in the middle of the pitch.

I would have had Nagy and HNM in there as starters using their energy and movement.

Brownhill - Mr Undropable - was again utterly ineffective. And whilst I am at it he is no leader and needs the armband taken off him pronto.

I agree that every formation (within reasons) can be an effective outlet. I can’t talk because wasn’t there and only seen very basic highlights (which were not good to watch from a City point of view). No easy way to play ourselves back into any sort of form but i think i would of taken a back to basics approach. Doesn’t get more basic than 4-4-2.

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5 minutes ago, GTFABM said:

I agree that every formation (within reasons) can be an effective outlet. I can’t talk because wasn’t there and only seen very basic highlights (which were not good to watch from a City point of view). No easy way to play ourselves back into any sort of form but i think i would of taken a back to basics approach. Doesn’t get more basic than 4-4-2.

We were 4-4-2, of sorts.

Watkins, Eliasson- wingers, Weimann and Diedhiou- strikers. Maybe not full on 4-4-2 but that kind of shape is often nice and easy to play through for a side like Brentford. Counterattacking 4-4-2 though, different possibly.

it could maybe have been argued at 4-4-1-1, or 4-2-3-1 with Weimann but it's quite a bit closer to 4-4-2 IMO.

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