LJ - Pro’s and Cons

[AshtonRobin21]

With the forum seemingly split on whether LJ should be sacked or given until the end of the season, I thought it would be a good opportunity for people to highlight which areas they feel LJ does well and areas of concern.

My personal opinion is to look for another option to take this club forward.

The last few seasons have shown progression but I feel we have now reached a sticking point. There is no doubt that LJ has done well to establish us as a top half championship club, but we now need a manager capable of making that final push.

Listed below are my own opinions on LJ’s strengths and areas of concern.

PROS:

- Development of younger players has been a plus over recent seasons. Club developed players have gone on to do well in the first team and have brought in incredible funds for the club. 

- Away form is strong. I strangely feel more confident about away games than I do for our home matches. 

- Individuals performing well. The stand out over the past few seasons has been that we seem to have an individual performing above the levels of the rest of the team. (Bit of a crossover here as a negative within a positive). That individual does tend to be sold on each season. Kodjia, Bobby, Webby, and this season Eliasson (pray for a contract extension). The concern from this is that we tend to have an individual on form whilst others are struggling. There is an imbalance.

CONS:

- Arrogance, I think any city fan can read between the lines and see that LJ has an arrogant personality. If recent rumours are to be believed he has fallen out with Kasey and COD (hopefully leads to COD leaving). The tendency to slate his players for individual mistakes instead of taking responsibility himself. The players can’t be full of confidence if one mistake is going to lead to LJ blaming them after the match. 

- Team selection. This is my main concern. The lack of familarity. The constant changing of formation and playing personnel. Changing the starting line up from one week to the next to minimise the threat of the opponent instead of enforcing our own threats to them.

- The gift of the gab. Talks a good game. I’m sure a football neutral would think he sounds incredibly intelligent but as a city fan you quickly realise that he is talking complete rubbish to deflect any blame. “Most box entries” what a load of rubbish, we hit long balls and long throws into the box yesterday with no threat towards the Brentford Keeper. And yes granted we had 10 men but this is a regular occurrence at home matches. We rely so heavily on Eliassons crosses that everything else going into the box from other players seems inaffevtive.  

- Creative players seem to be scapegoats. Eliasson and Palmer are our two most creative players at the club. Yet Kasey is removed from the match day squad and Eliasson is in and out of the team. Surely we can all agree that the team should be built around these players. Do we think the likes of West Brom won’t play Perreira because they are acing the likes of Millwall? Would Leeds drop Hernandez because they think that Cardiff May be too physical? No instead they implement their own strengths and take control of the game.

my question would be why are the key attacking threats being pulled in and out of the starting 11 yet a struggling defence seem to have their starting sports cemented?

- Tactical knowledge, Yesterday is going to be a big factor in this one. The Eliasson sub is going to divide opinion. Personally, I would have sacrificed Weimann. There is no doubt that Moore needed to be brought on, but we were 2-0 down when the sub was made, at that point we had nothing to lose. Leave Fam up top to hold the ball up and look to utilise Eliasson and Watkins pace on a counter attack. Instead we went to an ultra defensive set up and went on to concede twice more anyway. 

- Home Form is a shambles. I don’t enjoy going to watch home matches at the moment. Millwall,  Blackburn, Brentford have all made us look awful at home this year. We seem to set up for home matches as though we are going to look for a counter attack instead of controlling the game. We have no striker playing off the last man, Kasey has been blamed when the truth is he has no options in front of him. I would like us to set up for one game at home in a 4-2-3-1 with a front line of Eliasson - Palmer- Pato with Weimann up top or better yet bring in a striker willing to make runs off the last man. I am a fan of Weimann and that is by no means a dig at him, he works his socks off for the team, I just would like to see an out and out striker up top who can maximise Kasey’s potential.

[Redwhitepurple]

Its definitely not split even polls on here clearly indicate strong feelings of sacking him.

Bristol city regardless of managers have always produced talent in youth through academy. Its no new thing.

 

Johnson out... Half way point of season. Experienced manager. Boom. Promotion. Coyr

[J D]

10 minutes ago, Redwhitepurple said:

 

 

Johnson out... Half way point of season. Experienced manager. Boom. Promotion. Coyr

It's not as easy as that though. 19 managers out of 33 appointed in 17-18 and 18-19 have already been sacked. That's not because all football clubs are run by idiots, it's because it isn't easy to appoint a good manager.

[Wrongagain]

Can’t think of any pro things to say about him!

[Natchfever]

3 minutes ago, dave36 said:

Can’t think of any pro things to say about him!

 

[EmissionImpossible]

Mods- please merge all threads on the front page into one

[Red Exile]

Good summary @AshtonRobin21. The forum is indeed divided...whether you believe he will come good in the end or should leave now is more a matter of faith than anything else. Whatever the balance sheet, I lack faith in him and have for years, despite moments of brief conversion. 

11 minutes ago, J D said:

It's not as easy as that though. 19 managers out of 33 appointed in 17-18 and 18-19 have already been sacked. That's not because all football clubs are run by idiots, it's because it is difficult to find a good manager. 

Fair point but it's particularly difficult to find a good manager if hearts rule heads and the search lacks process...I'd ask whether any options other than LJ were considered when he was handed the job...

[spudski]

Taking aside his coaching skills, his biggest Pro is being really into this Club.

He feels every defeat and poor performance as much as we do.

Some may mock....but the relationship between his family and the Lansdowns is tight, and developed over many years.

Liked and respected, both socially and professionally.

It's obvious, that SL wants to run the Club his way.

Trying to do it as a reflection of qualities he seeks highly. Hence the DNA banded about so much.

Run in a respectful way, with 'family values'.

It may cost us in points, but tbh, I'd rather support a Club that had players with such values.

I couldn't think of anything worse than supporting a player that I wouldn't want to socialise with. A Billy big bollox giving it large gangsta style...no thank you.

For all it's frustrations I'd rather have a team of players I can respect, than say the likes of a Pogba type. Just no.

So for any coach to come here and agree to the way SL wants it run, has its playing restraints.

The manager or coach to succeed has to fully commit and believe in the philosophy before any ball has been kicked.

The list of replacement Coaches is less, as not all will agree to work within such constraints.

 

[AshtonRobin21]

1 minute ago, Lucan said:

No they dont.  I was with some pals on the other day who have never seen City play and they all thought he sounded arrogant and that he thinks he is a Champions League manager with the way he talks.  He is the David Brent of managers

Then i’m glad this is the case. Would love to see some of the quotes over the years. The “Europe in 5 years” one is the stand out for me. 

The point I was trying to make is that we all know he talks utter rubbish. Seems he believes he can talk himself out of trouble. The other day he was asked again about the bad run of form he has had in each of the last few seasons and he jokingly replied “guess that’s the Johnson curse”. I would much rather he come out and say that it’s not been good enough and needs addressing. 

Completely agree with the David Brent comparison.

[Super]

5 minutes ago, Lucan said:

No they dont.  I was with some pals on the other day who have never seen City play and they all thought he sounded arrogant and that he thinks he is a Champions League manager with the way he talks.  He is the David Brent of managers

Fits into small spaces?

[Lrrr]

A pro would be willing to work within the project so to say. How many top managers applying would ask SL to abandon the project and have their way?

[Wrongagain]

1 minute ago, hodge said:

A pro would be willing to work within the project so to say. How many top managers applying would ask SL to abandon the project and have their way?

There has to be a plan B!

plan A has taken over 3 years and millions £ to disintegrate, I don’t believe for one minute that there’s not an alternative plan ready! Much as it may hurt!

[phantom]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

He feels every defeat and poor performance as much as we do.

It's obvious, that SL wants to run the Club his way.

So he should, apart  from individual mistakes ultimately he is responsible for everything on the pitch. I would be very worried if a manager didn't feel angst with results etc. It could be argued that every post match report lately he has publicly thrown a player under the bus, it'd be nicer if he started to publicly take personal responsibility for the rubbish on offer. 

Your second comment above is potentially also the biggest reason we've not kicked on 

[Red Exile]

15 minutes ago, spudski said:

Taking aside his coaching skills, his biggest Pro is being really into this Club.

He feels every defeat and poor performance as much as we do.

Some may mock....but the relationship between his family and the Lansdowns is tight, and developed over many years.

Liked and respected, both socially and professionally.

It's obvious, that SL wants to run the Club his way.

Trying to do it as a reflection of qualities he seeks highly. Hence the DNA banded about so much.

Run in a respectful way, with 'family values'.

It may cost us in points, but tbh, I'd rather support a Club that had players with such values.

I couldn't think of anything worse than supporting a player that I wouldn't want to socialise with. A Billy big bollox giving it large gangsta style...no thank you.

For all it's frustrations I'd rather have a team of players I can respect, than say the likes of a Pogba type. Just no.

So for any coach to come here and agree to the way SL wants it run, has its playing restraints.

The manager or coach to succeed has to fully commit and believe in the philosophy before any ball has been kicked.

The list of replacement Coaches is less, as not all will agree to work within such constraints.

 

I don't doubt that you are correct. But - sadly in my opinion - what you are summarising there are all the strengths, and also the inherent weaknesses, of a family business. 

No one outside the family will ever be fully trusted, or backed. The gene pool is limited. Which is a problem should the family members prove not to be up to the job!

I don't think that is the way to run a competitively successful professional football club competing in a global market for talent...but it might be fine if competitive success isn't the priority.

[Lrrr]

5 minutes ago, dave36 said:

There has to be a plan B!

plan A has taken over 3 years and millions £ to disintegrate, I don’t believe for one minute that there’s not an alternative plan ready! Much as it may hurt!

Many ways to operate within our project method however can easily see many top managers wanting it their way, can also see many kicking up a fuss with losing the amount of key 1st team players that LJ has had, but the fact he sticks to it is a definite positive 

[downendcity]

4 minutes ago, dave36 said:

There has to be a plan B!

plan A has taken over 3 years and millions £ to disintegrate, I don’t believe for one minute that there’s not an alternative plan ready! Much as it may hurt!

If you are talking about the club's sustainability plan then I don't know what alternative there is , given the financial realities of life in the championship and staying within ffp.

SL has done what he can, and is able, in terms of redeveloping the stadium so that brings in more allowable income and also improving the academy facilities, that hopefully will improve the academy output and is of course propping up our losses to the maximum that ffp allows. All of that means , unless we are going to get shot of all of our most costly players, in terms of wages, the only way we can stay within ffp is to sell players and bring on academy players and/or bring in young players for lower fees and wages but with potential, both as potential first team players and/or strong resale value if they want to leave or we need to sell them in future.

If you are talking about the on pitch plans of the head coach, then one of the problems at the moment seems to be that most are struggling to work out exactly what is plan A, let alone if there is a plan B! 

 

[Natchfever]

9 minutes ago, hodge said:

Many ways to operate within our project method however can easily see many top managers wanting it their way, can also see many kicking up a fuss with losing the amount of key 1st team players that LJ has had, but the fact he sticks to it is a definite positive 

He sticks to it because he is given millions to replace players sold.

[ScottishRed]

I take all the points about its SL's way or the highway but I am sure there are coaches and managers out there who could be doing much better with the resources that we do have.

We have lost 5 games out of 6 with the one that we did win against an awful side.

These are interesting times, how much does SL really want promotion, the way things are looking it is again not going to be this year.

We all know that the football has been pretty dire this season and yesterday we were utterly outclassed.

I think the year on year progression is about to come to a grinding halt.

[Numero Uno]

41 minutes ago, spudski said:

Taking aside his coaching skills, his biggest Pro is being really into this Club.

He feels every defeat and poor performance as much as we do.

Some may mock....but the relationship between his family and the Lansdowns is tight, and developed over many years.

Liked and respected, both socially and professionally.

It's obvious, that SL wants to run the Club his way.

Trying to do it as a reflection of qualities he seeks highly. Hence the DNA banded about so much.

Run in a respectful way, with 'family values'.

It may cost us in points, but tbh, I'd rather support a Club that had players with such values.

I couldn't think of anything worse than supporting a player that I wouldn't want to socialise with. A Billy big bollox giving it large gangsta style...no thank you.

For all it's frustrations I'd rather have a team of players I can respect, than say the likes of a Pogba type. Just no.

So for any coach to come here and agree to the way SL wants it run, has its playing restraints.

The manager or coach to succeed has to fully commit and believe in the philosophy before any ball has been kicked.

The list of replacement Coaches is less, as not all will agree to work within such constraints.

 

And yet we have had players go to prison under the stewardship of this “regime”, a Goalkeeper arrested for pissing in the street and others create headlines in the National Press at Cheltenham Races for egging on others to piss in pint glasses. Tomlin was also found guilty of affray, carried out whilst at the club, and a very recent ex player of ours is up for trial soon for an offence (GBH with intent) that will almost certainly carry a prison sentence IF found guilty......he may be entirely innocent of course.

We also have a Manager who seems to spend 60 of the 90 minutes on a Saturday being right in the fourth official’s grille rather than coaching and gets sent off for wanting to fight the opposition gaffer after a 4-0 home battering, not for the first time either.

A lot of prospective Head Coaches /Managers would look at those family values and ask the interviewer “are you talking out of your arse mate?, Family Club? You sound like the Gas....”

Not being overly critical tbh, these things happen, but I think you have a slightly over romantic notion of the sort of club we are!!

[Natchfever]

2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

And yet we have had players go to prison under the stewardship of this “regime”, a Goalkeeper arrested for pissing in the street and others create headlines in the National Press at Cheltenham Races for egging on others to piss in pint glasses. A very recent ex player of ours is up for trial soon for an offence (GBH with intent) that will almost certainly carry a prison sentence IF found guilty......he may be entirely innocent of course.

We also have a Manager who seems to spend 60 of the 90 minutes on a Saturday being right in the fourth official’s grille rather than coaching and gets sent off for wanting to fight the opposition gaffer after a 4-0 home battering, not for the first time either.

A lot of prospective Head Coaches /Managers would look at those family values and ask the interviewer “are you talking out of your arse mate?, Family Club? You sound like the Gas....”

Not being overly critical tbh, these things happen, but I think you have a slightly over romantic notion of the sort of club we are!!

Yeah and "family values" appears to be chucking players at whatever club dad is managing at the time.

[spudski]

7 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

And yet we have had players go to prison under the stewardship of this “regime”, a Goalkeeper arrested for pissing in the street and others create headlines in the National Press at Cheltenham Races for egging on others to piss in pint glasses. A very recent ex player of ours is up for trial soon for an offence (GBH with intent) that will almost certainly carry a prison sentence IF found guilty......he may be entirely innocent of course.

We also have a Manager who seems to spend 60 of the 90 minutes on a Saturday being right in the fourth official’s grille rather than coaching and gets sent off for wanting to fight the opposition gaffer after a 4-0 home battering, not for the first time either.

A lot of prospective Head Coaches /Managers would look at those family values and ask the interviewer “are you talking out of your arse mate?, Family Club? You sound like the Gas....”

Not being overly critical tbh, these things happen, but I think you have a slightly over romantic notion of the sort of club we are!!

And everyone of them has been moved on.

I know from even back in the SOD days, when Scouting, if a players 'DNA' didn't fit our wants, regardless of how good he was,the wasn't bought. Mistakes have been made along the way, but I know for a fact, Scouts enquire constantly about a players home and social life and how he interacts in the changing room.

It's as important to this Club as playing ability.

[Chappers]

At the moment he looks like a man under pressure, and to me, it looked like fear of crowd reaction not swapping Nic for Moore as soon as Williams was sent off.

The big plus is continuity, we know what we are getting, a decent manager with a tendency to over-think and try to be too clever. For me, the big problem right now is over-expectation, the squad is not that great, and there is the constant conundrum, 3 CB's, makes us solid and unspectacular, or Nic, which opens the game up, but exposes us at the back, mainly due to the lightweight midfield.

[spudski]

34 minutes ago, phantom said:

So he should, apart  from individual mistakes ultimately he is responsible for everything on the pitch. I would be very worried if a manager didn't feel angst with results etc. It could be argued that every post match report lately he has publicly thrown a player under the bus, it'd be nicer if he started to publicly take personal responsibility for the rubbish on offer. 

Your second comment above is potentially also the biggest reason we've not kicked on 

Think I'll judge at the end of the season. Some could look pretty foolish on here if we kick on. Some could look spot on. I get the concern...but we are still in the mix, and will give some leeway given the long term injuries to Kalas, DaSilva, Afobe and Smith...as well as the likes of Baker and Nagy.

Don't get me wrong...I think we've recruited erratically, but considering everything, we are still in the mix so to speak.

[Numero Uno]

3 minutes ago, spudski said:

And everyone of them has been moved on.

I know from even back in the SOD days, when Scouting, if a players 'DNA' didn't fit our wants, regardless of how good he was,the wasn't bought. Mistakes have been made along the way, but I know for a fact, Scouts enquire constantly about a players home and social life and how he interacts in the changing room.

It's as important to this Club as playing ability.

They were moved on when it suited us, not sacked for gross misconduct!! BCFC are no different to any other football club.

As for Tomlin’s home and social life, that was all played out in Leicester wasn’t it

[Olé]

51 minutes ago, AshtonRobin21 said:

- Away form is strong. I strangely feel more confident about away games than I do for our home matches. 

47 minutes ago, Redwhitepurple said:

Its definitely not split even polls on here clearly indicate strong feelings of sacking him.

Never mind the fact it's been absolutely ages since the last LJ thread and we're absolutely starved of this sort of content, these two points tell a story which hasn't been spoken enough of.

The correlation between opinion on LJ's future and attendance, or non-attendance, at away matches. I would love to see how the view on "sacking" LJ differs from those who only go to AG.

Not only do I disbelieve there is a strong majority yet for "sacking" him (I take emotional post-match OTIB votes with a pinch of salt), most who travel away know what we're throwing away.

I nearly mentioned it in the "Respect LJ" thread, but people who ridicule LJ's record as "just Man Utd" do a massive disservice for what he was accomplishing away from home last season.

It's no exaggeration to say in my lifetime it's the best season I've ever seen in the second tier away from home. 11 wins 38 points, wins all in the same year at some very tough places to go.

• Sheff Utd, Swansea, Middlesbrough, Nottingham Forest, Birmingham, Blackburn, Brentford, Millwall, Stoke, QPR, Ipswich. And Bristol City leaving every one of their grounds with 3pts.

That's not something any old manager can achieve because only two managers did narrowly better last season away from home and they both got automatic promotion to the Premiership.

I've never known a City manager do it at this level. For some context as League One champions with Cotterill we only got 8 more points on the road. I loved the away experience last season.

Sadly away form hasn't been reproduced at home and the majority of fans only see home games so a lot of people are left feeling starved of results and football, but it ISN'T the full picture.

 

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, spudski said:

Think I'll judge at the end of the season. Some could look pretty foolish on here if we kick on. Some could look spot on. I get the concern...but we are still in the mix, and will give some leeway given the long term injuries to Kalas, DaSilva, Afobe and Smith...as well as the likes of Baker and Nagy.

Don't get me wrong...I think we've recruited erratically, but considering everything, we are still in the mix so to speak.

I agree, unless a Manager is out there who is too good to turn down then we evaluate LJ’s performance in May. Performances can go back up as well as down as you say!!

Overall, though, the club needs a better and more joined up recruitment plan.

[Natchfever]

1 minute ago, Chappers said:

At the moment he looks like a man under pressure, and to me, it looked like fear of crowd reaction not swapping Nic for Moore as soon as Williams was sent off.

The big plus is continuity, we know what we are getting, a decent manager with a tendency to over-think and try to be too clever. For me, the big problem right now is over-expectation, the squad is not that great, and there is the constant conundrum, 3 CB's, makes us solid and unspectacular, or Nic, which opens the game up, but exposes us at the back, mainly due to the lightweight midfield.

Our decent (albeit over clever) coach, assembled this squad Chappers, including a lightweight midfield, which is why I don't think he's decent at all.

Fans expectatiions are formed to a great extent, by the noises coming out of the club, and people are starting to sniff a hint of bovine poo returning..

[spudski]

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

I agree, unless a Manager is out there who is too good to turn down then we evaluate LJ’s performance in May. Performances can go back up as well as down as you say!!

Overall, though, the club needs a better and more joined up recruitment plan.

Totally agree.

[Natchfever]

4 minutes ago, Olé said:

Never mind the fact it's been absolutely ages since the last LJ thread and we're absolutely starved of this sort of content, these two points tell a story which hasn't been spoken enough of.

The correlation between opinion on LJ's future and attendance, or non-attendance, at away matches. I would love to see how the view on "sacking" LJ differs from those who only go to AG.

Not only do I disbelieve there is a strong majority yet for "sacking" him (I take emotional post-match OTIB votes with a pinch of salt), most who travel away know what we're throwing away.

I nearly mentioned it in the "Respect LJ" thread, but people who ridicule LJ's record as "just Man Utd" do a massive disservice for what he was accomplishing away from home last season.

It's no exaggeration to say in my lifetime it's the best season I've ever seen in the second tier away from home. 11 wins 38 points, wins all in the same year at some very tough places to go.

• Sheff Utd, Swansea, Middlesbrough, Nottingham Forest, Birmingham, Blackburn, Brentford, Millwall, Stoke, QPR, Ipswich. And Bristol City leaving every one of their grounds with 3pts.

That's not something any old manager can achieve because only two managers did narrowly better last season away from home and they both got automatic promotion to the Premiership.

I've never known a City manager do it at this level. For some context as League One champions with Cotterill we only got 8 more points on the road. I loved the away experience last season.

Sadly away form hasn't been reproduced at home and the majority of fans only see home games so a lot of people are left feeling starved of results and football, but it ISN'T the full picture.

 

A couple of seasons ago though, and went tits up right about now as I recall, never to return.

How long does he dine out on that, and for how long do you suggest the possible views of 1,000 - 1,500 travelling fans over ride those of possibly 18-19,000 at home ?

[Olé]

13 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

A couple of seasons ago though, and went tits up right about now as I recall, never to return.

Eh? This was last season I'm talking about. Add in Derby, Hull, Stoke, Cardiff, Fulham away this season and he must have one of the best away win records in the country in the past year.

Also, I'm really not sure what point you're making about "the possible views" of 1000-1500 fans away from home versus 18-19,000 at home, but it seems a crass one. Last I checked league points weren't awarded based on number of City fans or personal views. Our away points are worth as much as our home points and so LJ has every right to be judged equally on both.