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LJ - Pro’s and Cons


AshtonRobin21

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1 hour ago, dave36 said:

Can’t think of any pro things to say about him!

I believe the time has come for a change but this is frankly pathetic.

Would it really kill you to acknowledge steady progression up the division during LJ’s tenure?

18th > 17th > 11th > 8th with a mid-table budget and no parachute payments. The only team in all four divisions to improve its league position for five consecutive seasons.

If LJ left tomorrow, the history books would look kindly on his time in charge as a period of relative stability where he developed us from a newly-promoted relegation-threatened side to top-half play off contenders. He would, I hope, get a warm reception on his return to Ashton Gate.

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Perhaps I’m selfish, I don’t go to as many away games as I would like to and I’m one of many that have to drive 50 miles + in a round trip to home games, but I have been following city since I was 10, when I lived in Bedminster.

I love my club and want to see them do well, but I don’t feel that LJ will ever get us anywhere near the top, everyone talks about “his” players, I don’t believe for a minute they are all his players! And I don’t think he he treats them as such - Semenyo demonstrates this perfectly. Had a fantastic season on loan, played well against some very good teams and was brought back, reportedly on instruction which did not come from LJ. We still see him every week as our club developed player, but he has not been given a real chance by LJ at all and only played either out of position or in roll where he could not hope to do much due to the players opposing him, the last two matches the final throw of the dice has been Rodri! Why? He has given us nothing and won’t be a red in 2 weeks! If Semenyo is one for the future or about to break through why does he not get his chance? Easy it’s about personal feelings and it’s about LJs mentality 

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39 minutes ago, Olé said:

Sadly away form hasn't been reproduced at home and the majority of fans only see home games so a lot of people are left feeling starved of results and football, but it ISN'T the full picture.

 

It's not the full picture I agree. This season I've been away at QPR in the cup, Brum, Brentford, Stoke and Preston. Some slightly fortuitous wins, a stunning goal at QPR and a cracker of a match at Deepdale. We do seem to play better away from home. But if you can't work out how to replicate that at home and deliver entertainment to the folk who fork out thousands up front each season you are in trouble.

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15 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I believe the time has come for a change but this is frankly pathetic.

Would it really kill you to acknowledge steady progression up the division during LJ’s tenure?

18th > 17th > 11th > 8th with a mid-table budget and no parachute payments. The only team in all four divisions to improve its league position for five consecutive seasons.

If LJ left tomorrow, the history books would look kindly on his time in charge as a period of relative stability where he developed us from a newly-promoted relegation-threatened side to top-half play off contenders. He would, I hope, get a warm reception on his return to Ashton Gate.

But look at the position in the league last 2 years we've been in to where we finished dec was 2nd behind wolves finished 11th last year was 5th in march we came 8th no 2 years on the bounce we bottled play offs

Thank him for keeping us up and the league cup run 

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A workman is only as good as the tools he has to work with. Let’s face it, we don’t have a stream of Premier League managers looking to poach (and play) many of our 1st team anymore. Even where a Prem team have come in for one of our players in recent years, all too few of them make a success of it.

It’s all too easy to blame the manager, but we simply don’t have the resources to compete at the top end of the table. A change of manager will not change that position, and I really cannot see any other manager we could reasonably expect to recruit doing much better than LJ without significant additional resources, which simply aren’t there.

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20 minutes ago, Olé said:

Eh? This was last season I'm talking about. Add in Derby, Hull, Stoke, Cardiff, Fulham away this season and he must have one of the best away win records in the country in the past year.

Also, I'm really not sure what point you're making about "the possible views" of 1000-1500 fans away from home versus 18-19,000 at home, but it seems a crass one. Last I checked league points weren't awarded based on number of City fans or personal views. Our away points are worth as much as our home points and so LJ has every right to be judged equally on both.

Apologies @Olé I misread although I do think we have been sliding since around the Wolves game at home in terms of consistent performance, but taking a record across a calendar year is actually crass because its meaningless in terms of where you finish in a given season.

As for my co called crass comments, you said "Not only do I disbelieve there is a strong majority yet for "sacking" him (I take emotional post-match OTIB votes with a pinch of salt), most who travel away know what we're throwing away."

I don't know how you can possibly claim to represent the majority of away fans, but even if you did, the vast majority of City fans watch the team at home, and it has been dire for ages. A businessman like Mr Lansdown would have to give more weight to those who add to the club's coffers, and if even 10% of home fans stopped coming it would hurt the club a damn sight more than a smaller away following even if we picked up more points on the road.

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Pros: he is devoted to the club. I have no doubt that defeats hit him as hard as any supporter. I genuinely believe that he eats, sleeps and breathes city. 
 

cons: he’s plateaued. Believes his own hype. Slow to change. Overconfident in his own abilities but surprisingly, under confident of his teams abilities. Tactically suspect. 

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5 minutes ago, DSTAF said:

Pros: he is devoted to the club. I have no doubt that defeats hit him as hard as any supporter. I genuinely believe that he eats, sleeps and breathes city. 
 

cons: he’s plateaued. Believes his own hype. Slow to change. Overconfident in his own abilities but surprisingly, under confident of his teams abilities. Tactically suspect. 

Agree with the cons, I think he is committed to the club more than the average hired gun, but would leave in a heartbeat if a better/bigger club came in for him and I wouldn't blame him for showing ambition.

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5 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

Agree with the cons, I think he is committed to the club more than the average hired gun, but would leave in a heartbeat if a better/bigger club came in for him and I wouldn't blame him for showing ambition.

Makes you wonder why no one took a punt on him when his stock was high. 

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33 minutes ago, HitchinRed said:

A workman is only as good as the tools he has to work with. Let’s face it, we don’t have a stream of Premier League managers looking to poach (and play) many of our 1st team anymore. Even where a Prem team have come in for one of our players in recent years, all too few of them make a success of it.

It’s all too easy to blame the manager, but we simply don’t have the resources to compete at the top end of the table. A change of manager will not change that position, and I really cannot see any other manager we could reasonably expect to recruit doing much better than LJ without significant additional resources, which simply aren’t there.

I don't know...

I'm on the fence- I see both sides of the resources argument but OTOH another manager could I believe get us playing in a more consistent and cohesive style- hell LJ should be able to.

I'm not against switching formations but not like this...this is too much, that's problem one.

Secondly, a shape that fits the players and recruit players who fit the shape. I don't actually believe the lack of physical or imposing midfielders is a big problem as such- Brentford didn't seem to be massive, especially in CM but the way LJ sets us up just doesn't play to our strengths, or get the best out of our players- or many of them.

I'd like to see a shape that gets the best out of, to name a few...Bentley, Moore, Kalas, DaSilva, Nagy, Massengo, Brownhill, Palmer of course, Eliasson and Weimann. RB, unsure who is the best to pick- Hunt gives more of an outlet but Pereira can be quite steady and has room for growth. Both have their pros and cons basically!

Especially if they are from a higher level or a bit more established- some exceptions of course but he's lacking something to get the best out of Internationals, guys from Chelsea* who have some prior experience or whatever...quite a lot from higher levels seem to get worse under him!

*- Tammy is a very notable and obvious exception but this was his breakout season here, I'm talking about those with a mix of some experience and the Chelsea coaching e.g.

I just don't think he knows how to get the best out of players from a higher and with the caveat of some experience, level than he has played at...prove me wrong LJ!!

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17 minutes ago, DSTAF said:

Pros: he is devoted to the club. I have no doubt that defeats hit him as hard as any supporter. I genuinely believe that he eats, sleeps and breathes city. 
 

cons: he’s plateaued. Believes his own hype. Slow to change. Overconfident in his own abilities but surprisingly, under confident of his teams abilities. Tactically suspect. 

I’m glad you mentioned “under confident of his teams abilities” this perfectly sums up his mindset on both the team as a whole and individuals.

He often comes out with remarks (about our attacking players in particular) stating their weaknesses as a reason for them not playing. Can you imagine playing under a manager highlighting your flaws?

I thought yesterday’s comments on the Eliasson sub was him saying that Eliasson has no defensive awareness. Yet the other day (May have been Luton) Eliasson won the most tackles in the entire match. Again his comments about Kasey “not being able to go back to Chelsea and ask to be recalled” was bizare. There’s a trend of him throwing players under the bus recently.

His mindset on the starting 11 tends to be to reduce the oppositions strengths. In reality we should be focusing on ourselves and putting on a show with the talent we have in this squad. Make the opposition worry about us.

Take Kasey, Eliasson and Massengo as key examples, True talent and ability. Yet Kasey has been cast out of the match day squad which is madness, Eliasson plays when it suits LJ and Massengo was playing well before being pushed out to the bench each week.

If we lose this talent we will hear LJ state “i’m gutted to see them go”.

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4 minutes ago, Spoons said:

I think the forum is generally split on whether LJ should stay or go. However at the ground I feel ( where I sit at least) there's not the desire to sack him? 

Thoughts?

I think that many fear the reaction of they say they want him out. Where I sit in south stand there is no desire for him to go either, that can easily change in the next couple of league matches.

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3 hours ago, AshtonRobin21 said:

- Team selection. This is my main concern. The lack of familarity. The constant changing of formation and playing personnel. Changing the starting line up from one week to the next to minimise the threat of the opponent instead of enforcing our own threats to them.

- Creative players seem to be scapegoats. Eliasson and Palmer are our two most creative players at the club. Yet Kasey is removed from the match day squad and Eliasson is in and out of the team. Surely we can all agree that the team should be built around these players. Do we think the likes of West Brom won’t play Perreira because they are acing the likes of Millwall? Would Leeds drop Hernandez because they think that Cardiff May be too physical? No instead they implement their own strengths and take control of the game.

These imo are LJ’s huge downfalls, far too much chopping and changing which is down to him focusing far too much on the opposition. Pick our strongest side and stick with it.

Although if it were down to me I’d let LJ have the Jan window where hopefully he can bring in some quality and stick with him until the summer, if we fail to make the PO’s then I think it’s time for a change. I think he deserves until the summer due to the fact of our terrible start to the season with injuries forcing him to play people out of position, forced to bring in an extra defender, then the Afobe injury topped it off. Yet after all that and all the doom and gloom on here we still sit only 2 points off the play offs.

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1 hour ago, HitchinRed said:

A workman is only as good as the tools he has to work with. Let’s face it, we don’t have a stream of Premier League managers looking to poach (and play) many of our 1st team anymore. Even where a Prem team have come in for one of our players in recent years, all too few of them make a success of it.

It’s all too easy to blame the manager, but we simply don’t have the resources to compete at the top end of the table. A change of manager will not change that position, and I really cannot see any other manager we could reasonably expect to recruit doing much better than LJ without significant additional resources, which simply aren’t there.

Hmmmmm......let us not forget that LJ has so far signed 50 players ...

Unbelievable....and still demands more...

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15 minutes ago, BCFC11 said:

These imo are LJ’s huge downfalls, far too much chopping and changing which is down to him focusing far too much on the opposition. Pick our strongest side and stick with it.

Although if it were down to me I’d let LJ have the Jan window where hopefully he can bring in some quality and stick with him until the summer, if we fail to make the PO’s then I think it’s time for a change. I think he deserves until the summer due to the fact of our terrible start to the season with injuries forcing him to play people out of position, forced to bring in an extra defender, then the Afobe injury topped it off. Yet after all that and all the doom and gloom on here we still sit only 2 points off the play offs.

Like yesterday you mean?

The unchanged side vs Brentford was surely a vote of confidence in the side that he picked against Luton...went well!

On a wider point, I certainly agree on the switching and chopping and changing...but unchanged side vs Brentford, a very, very different challenge to that of Luton- yeah, disregard the opposition somewhat!

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13 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Like yesterday you mean?

The unchanged side vs Brentford was surely a vote of confidence in the side that he picked against Luton...went well!

On a wider point, I certainly agree on the switching and chopping and changing...but unchanged side vs Brentford, a very, very different challenge to that of Luton- yeah, disregard the opposition somewhat!

It wasn’t unchanged was it?

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I’m currently in the remain camp, I’ve harped on about consistency for years & im not going to change my mind on that at this moment in time. In saying that, I still question some of his decisions, be it formation, players selected, substitutions or comments he sometimes makes. But I think as fans, you always have to be mindful that there are things going on behind the scenes that most fans are not privy to. Whether it be in professional life or family life, this can then become a consideration when picking a team. Anyway

Pros- 

Year on year progression with final league  position 

Players see us as a good club to progress their career with ( he is a big part of that )

He has a real affinity with the club ( it would have to be a really good opportunity for him to leave)

He has room to develop & grow ( which he undoubtedly will )

Whether you like it or not, he is innovative 

He buys into the club project, which means the club is singing from the same hymn sheet, leading to more consistency 

 

Cons

He is Lee Johnson & for some, the knives were going to be out at the first opportunity 

He is very confident in his own ability, it can come across arrogant ( aren’t all the top managers? )

I think he can over think about the opposition, rather than think about our strengths 

His interviews could be construed as ill advised at times ( mentioning playing Palmer & Elliasson together is like being 2-0 down to start with). But what we don’t know is the players characters he is mentioning, would they respond to this positively or negatively?

 

So my thoughts at this moment in time are most definitely to see how the season pans out. No one can deny that we have had massive problems with injuries to key players, none more so than losing Afobe, I believe we would be right in the mix had he stayed fit ( I know everyone gets injuries, but that many? To key players? ). Those players coming back have had a game or 2 to get back into it ( is it a coincidence the bad form is at the same time? ). We are 2 points outside the Play Offs & a positive January window could really put the wind in our sails. COYR 

 

 

 

 

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We should be building a team around our most creative, skilful players (Palmer, Eliasson) - not binning them for robotic, workhorses. The Saints believed 100% in Le Tiss - they didn’t care that he couldn’t defend or tackle - what he could do was win games single-handedly, so they made him captain and played him in every game  - LJ seems intimidated by this type of player and he’s going to drive our skilful guys away ...

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Like yesterday you mean?

The unchanged side vs Brentford was surely a vote of confidence in the side that he picked against Luton...went well!

On a wider point, I certainly agree on the switching and chopping and changing...but unchanged side vs Brentford, a very, very different challenge to that of Luton- yeah, disregard the opposition somewhat!

One change yes, 0-1 down then down to 10 after 13mins, put paid to that.

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5 minutes ago, BCFC11 said:

One change yes, 0-1 down then down to 10 after 13mins, put paid to that.

Sorry, I somehow I missed Smith for Nagy but it wasn't like what he is often accused of which is tinkering half the team, a drastic change of shape etc etc for the opposition- it was broadly the same.

It did, but I think fair chance we lose anyway from 1-0 down, Brentford are a better side than us and easy to outnumber us in midfield with those two setups, but the red card and 1 down killed it for sure!

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17 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

We should be building a team around our most creative, skilful players (Palmer, Eliasson) - not binning them for robotic, workhorses. The Saints believed 100% in Le Tiss - they didn’t care that he couldn’t defend or tackle - what he could do was win games single-handedly, so they made him captain and played him in every game  - LJ seems intimidated by this type of player and he’s going to drive our skilful guys away ...

I can’t agree with this. What did Southampton achieve by building their team around Le Tissier? 
 

Successful teams are built on a strong spine, not around a skilful fans fave. 
 

Successful teams have a strong keeper, dominant centre back, solid centre mid and bell-cow striker. They’re built from solidity at the back, and doing the dirty work - lots of off the ball energy. 
 

You don’t build a successful team around Palmer or Eliasson. You build a team that can potentially integrate these players to be your creative sparks, but you certainly don’t build it around them. 
 

Look at Liverpool. They had their creative attacking sparks for a couple of years. But only when they added a good GK, CB & CM (Alison, Van Dyke, Fabinho) did they start to achieve success. 

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23 minutes ago, Harry said:

I can’t agree with this. What did Southampton achieve by building their team around Le Tissier? 
 

Successful teams are built on a strong spine, not around a skilful fans fave. 
 

Successful teams have a strong keeper, dominant centre back, solid centre mid and bell-cow striker. They’re built from solidity at the back, and doing the dirty work - lots of off the ball energy. 
 

You don’t build a successful team around Palmer or Eliasson. You build a team that can potentially integrate these players to be your creative sparks, but you certainly don’t build it around them. 
 

Look at Liverpool. They had their creative attacking sparks for a couple of years. But only when they added a good GK, CB & CM (Alison, Van Dyke, Fabinho) did they start to achieve success. 

I would argue that they only started to achieve success when a top class coach was bought in . 

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