Jump to content
IGNORED

Post story - LJ and Palmer conflict means Nketiah could go elsewhere


Major Isewater

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, RedsTilliDie said:

Realistically 1 in 5 games Palmer can make a difference but almost all of the  time when he is playing the match forum is filled with “Palmer bad pass” “Palmer caught in possession” etc . Personally I think he good but not completely necessary to the club to keep a hold on to change our season . Comparing him to Elliason is silly in my opinion as elliason is proving himself valuable game in game out . Whereas Kasey does one gd thing now and then and gets the same credit . Not worth the fuss imo get him out and move on  

Both have hardly ever had five consecutive games - and with the constant team changes how are they going to achieve their potential? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

I did have some time for GM, but I do question the timing and shitstiring of this article.  I mean, come on.  I get that it's his job, but jesus christ. 

" I hate the way on the podcast that he refers to every team by their nickname too. He loves calling us the Robins" 

Because it is the beginning of an important transfer window. KP could leave...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, extonsred said:

Both have hardly ever had five consecutive games - and with the constant team changes how are they going to achieve their potential? 

Exactly.

Constantly in and out of the team, or being played in various different positions helps no player whatsoever, players thrive on consistency something that our 2 most creative players strangely do not get.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Agree , I didn’t phrase it well. The exact reasons you gave. He admitted a couple of years ago he over complicated things. I genuinely believe he thinks he’s a better coach/ tactician than he is. When it goes wrong he can’t come to terms with the fact he’s got it wrong so blames the players in public , but never the experienced ones by name . Look how he used to throw Hörður under the bus. His arrogance is unreal, not having the humility to realise Brentford are a better side and matching them up from the start is just one point. 
I do also think SL  is similar in a way. If he’s forced to sack LJ  then I think we all know what’ll happen. It’ll be Jamie MAC that takes over 

Taylor Moore copped it too.

SL's intervention will be an admission he has gotten it wrong again so he will be likely to ride it out in the hope dissent goes away.

If it doesn't then like you, I fear an attempt to replicate Liverpool's "Boot Room" will mean Jamie Mac gets elevated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

For local journo’s to be putting stories like this out there is clearly some disconnect with the club. He’s not going to get anything from LJ moving forwards......

Maybe. I think he’d be less likely to write a piece like that if the relationship had broken down though; it’s the club he’s up against, not just LJ, so if the relationship has broken down wouldn’t be want to repair it for his own sake?

It’s strange to hear a player’s people opening up that his player doesn’t think much of the manager. Have we had much of that since LJ took over?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, RonWalker said:

Maybe. I think he’d be less likely to write a piece like that if the relationship had broken down though; it’s the club he’s up against, not just LJ, so if the relationship has broken down wouldn’t be want to repair it for his own sake?

 

He was asked on Twitter this morning and said that he felt his article is balanced and that LJ has the right of reply........and also he is not worried if the article puts him in LJ’s bad books as he has to be independent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

An interesting story in the Post ( never thought I’d write this sentence) 

Palmer is unhappy with what’s happening at City and his relationship with LJ is at rock bottom. 
 

With several clubs interested he could be out the door this window.

A big problem is that KP is friends with Nketiah who has asked him what life at City is like .

The implication is that as LJ is cold shouldering KP the report will not be very positive.

If we sell KP it will be ‘ LJ OUT ‘ for me . 
 

The whole KP scenario screams of mismanagement and he is not the only player who has suffered from it .

 

Another very concerning angle is the fact that (1) we are meant to be extremely diligent in our recruitment to ensure the so called ‘club DNA’ is enhanced and (2) KP was on loan so he was a known quantity. If there has been a bust up, so soon after he was signed, it will create major concerns for fans and more importantly for potential targets. 

LJ, like every other manager, is tasked with the crucial task of man management, which I’m sure isn’t easy as players have egos and want to play, nevertheless if he has failed to manage a key new recruit in next to no time questions need to be asked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, RonWalker said:

Maybe. I think he’d be less likely to write a piece like that if the relationship had broken down though; it’s the club he’s up against, not just LJ, so if the relationship has broken down wouldn’t be want to repair it for his own sake?

It’s strange to hear a player’s people opening up that his player doesn’t think much of the manager. Have we had much of that since LJ took over?

What would you have done if you’d sourced that info, you being a journo and all that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, RonWalker said:

Maybe. I think he’d be less likely to write a piece like that if the relationship had broken down though; it’s the club he’s up against, not just LJ, so if the relationship has broken down wouldn’t be want to repair it for his own sake?

It’s strange to hear a player’s people opening up that his player doesn’t think much of the manager. Have we had much of that since LJ took over?

There were rumours of certain senior players calling him out during his first season, but just rumours on here as far as I know. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But where is the evidence for McGregors assertion that the relationship with Palmer is going downhill. He has been very careful not to state whether KP has said something to him, or whether any other player has for that matter. In fact, some on here who have spoken to him paint a different picture. Why are people now so willing to believe a reporter who is consistently castigated on here for his lack of ability and originality, simply regurgitating stories on OTIB, unless it suits their purpose as it agrees with their viewpoint, misguided or otherwise. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

If it doesn't then like you, I fear an attempt to replicate Liverpool's "Boot Room" will mean Jamie Mac gets elevated.

Liverpool's 'boot room' worked because they were replacing retiring managers who had been successful with experienced, mature coaches steeped in the way Liverpool played, and wanted to continue playing.

They were also all mature individuals, outstanding football men respected by all the players, and natural leaders.

At City it would be a floundering sacked manager replaced by a novice having left no identifiable style of play to carry on - a recipe for stagnation and unrest, at best.

If SL feels he has built a 'boot room' that can ever deliver anything but mediocrity I'm afraid he's in cloud cuckoo land.

I fear you are right though and if LJ departs the job will fall to Mcallister, no doubt with the likes of Carey and Skuse being installed behind the scenes as further managers in waiting.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, formerly known as ivan said:

Talent yes, performances... No!

Doesn’t matter who your manager is, if you aren’t playing well then you won’t play. I get that could be said for a few players but unfortunately he can’t drop everyone so he chooses the ones that put in the effort.

Complete non-story!

I disagree with you LJ has threw palmer under the bus on more then 1 time this season already hes one of our most talented players yet cant get in the squad, noone has previously said palmer has bad attidude and hasnt shown any since him time here, LJ has been picking teams with players he trusts as he lost the changing room look at charlton and brentford games you dont perform like that if your behind the gaffer luton we wasnt that good just got made look better by poor luton team alot of stories seem to be of him and players argueing plus hes never been able to handle a big fish in small pond type player, 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

What would you have done if you’d sourced that info, you being a journo and all that.

Run it, but absolutely not as strongly as that if I was in the club's bad books. The club might not be a great source of transfer news etc. but even if it isn't, it's always a good yardstick to check rumours against. You don't want to be in their bad books long-term. A lot of it's about playing politics.

5 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

But where is the evidence for McGregors assertion that the relationship with Palmer is going downhill. He has been very careful not to state whether KP has said something to him, or whether any other player has for that matter. In fact, some on here who have spoken to him paint a different picture. Why are people now so willing to believe a reporter who is consistently castigated on here for his lack of ability and originality, simply regurgitating stories on OTIB, unless it suits their purpose as it agrees with their viewpoint, misguided or otherwise. 

99% that's coming from Palmer's agent. If he's going to be on the move, it helps to have it out in public that he feels mistreated by LJ and isn't just sulking or something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Olé said:

Isn't the real issue with GJ/LJ their own egos? I'm not sure KP has any ego to handle - he certainly doesn't come across like that on social media, the opposite, he comes across as quite a positive-thinking, humble, family man who needs to be trusted. If ever there was an area I think LJ struggles its his own ego - and far more than GJ ever did.

It's the one consistent thread in his tenure that has always worried me and I think massively affects his man-management. I've seen it all the time in business: I see LJ as an insecure leader with a giant brooding ego. That's not me being nasty to him, many great leaders have had exactly the same traits and how they deal with it defines their success.

Sadly I don't think LJ deals with it very well. I get the impression he takes things very personally if the team don't execute and is immediately consumed by how he can distance himself from the blame and punish those he believes have let him down. This is why he scapegoats/dumps players rather than standing square behind them as one team.

Which is the reason he endlessly uses phrases that either don't make grammatical sense, or he doesn't understand himself. 

He thinks he is more than he is. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

Haha...if I'd had a recorder on me it was a better scoop than the one GMG has had today I can assure you! 

I bet, although you remain resolute in not giving away any juicy details! Respect.

But based on the information you've provided - this conversation occurred after GJ was sacked, on a train travelling back from London - I will attempt some amateur sleuthing/wild speculation:

GJ was sacked on 18 March 2010 - we'll assume the conversation occurred between that date and the end of that season.

Let's also assume the train was travelling to Bristol after an away game.

The only away game in that period that would have required a train journey via London was Peterborough. The squad that day was:

Gerken, Carey,  Ribeiro, Fontaine, Orr, Campbell-Ryce, Elliott, Hartley, Skuse, Haynes, Maynard. Subs - Henderson, Sawyer, Johnson, Sno, Clarkson, Sproule, Maierhofer

Some assumptions in there which could be wide of the mark, but I can imagine one or two of the above behaving as you've described.

Hot or cold?

A propos of nothing at all, Tommy Rowe was playing for Peterborough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, NickJ said:

For reasons only you will know mate, by selectively reproducing extracts, and even inventing words that were not said, you have put a very different spin on the article than is the reality.

Take for example:

The relationship has had its ups and downs but is certainly still “salvageable”. 

It actually says: Bristol Live understands that the relationship between Palmer and Johnson is still salvageable but is fast deteriorating and that an exit is now a real possibility,

and before that:

Bristol Live understands that the relationship between Palmer and Lee Johnson has continued to nosedive and the former Chelsea player is not opposed to leaving Ashton Gate if the head coach continues to give him the cold shoulder treatment and does not believe in him.

As for whether or not Johnson can manage creative players, I have my doubts as to his man management per se. The Aaron Wilbrahim podcast was very insightful, in which he says Tomlin is not a bad lad, just a bit of a joker but he never did anything really bad and always trained well. I didn't hear anything at all in that interview to suggest that Tomlin had created any issues. 

Wilbrahim - who clearly had loads of respect for Cotterill but not so much for Johnson - also referred to disputes with Johnson over trivial issues, interesting when you refer back to another quote from the EP article:

Bristol Live understands that Palmer feels singled out and that Johnson has been unjustified and has reacted out of proportion to several match performances of late, with several disagreements between the pair over Palmer's life outside of football too. Often concerning trivial matters.

Yet again a player who was a crowd favourite, an entertainer, and seen as the talisman in a potential promotion push , feels marginalised and unfairly singled out for criticism. At some point you have to ask questions of the manager.

Hi Nick. 
Yep, most of the previous 4 pages of posts focussed on the negatives - rather sensationally. 
So I agree that I have extracted only the elements I wanted to focus on. 
Ultimately, the article says that KP gave EN positive feedback - so quite why the urge for most people to jump to “KP told EN not to come here” I don’t know.

As for Wilbs - the story he gave was very much that he had a lot of admiration for Cotterill after he’d brought him in off the heap. Of course when a new manager comes in he’ll have different ideas on such an ageing striker. Wilbs himself even went on to say that whilst he and LJ didn’t see eye to eye he still understood where he was coming from. There’s nothing in Wilbs story to say that LJ can’t handle certain players. Tomlin is a dick. Always had been a dick and always will be a dick. I put zero blame on LJ for Tomlin being a dick. 
 

Please don’t feel that I am defending LJ here. I have some questions over his ability to take us forward just as much as many others, but I think we ought to keep the debate fair and rational. KP is upset because he’s not playing regularly and his manager has called him out on it to improve. This happens all the time in football. It doesn’t mean the manager is unable to handle big players, it means that big players are unable to accept responsibility for their own actions. 
Plenty of examples of even high profile managers who struggle with player power. It’s not just LJ. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Liverpool's 'boot room' worked because they were replacing retiring managers who had been successful with experienced, mature coaches steeped in the way Liverpool played, and wanted to continue playing.

They were also all mature individuals, outstanding football men respected by all the players, and natural leaders.

At City it would be a floundering sacked manager replaced by a novice having left no identifiable style of play to carry on - a recipe for stagnation and unrest, at best.

If SL feels he has built a 'boot room' that can ever deliver anything but mediocrity I'm afraid he's in cloud cuckoo land.

I fear you are right though and if LJ departs the job will fall to Mcallister, no doubt with the likes of Carey and Skuse being installed behind the scenes as further managers in waiting.

 

Came to a juddering halt with Souness though!

Dunno if he was the last of, but 'boot room' possibly not ideal for us at this time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

As for Wilbs - the story he gave was very much that he had a lot of admiration for Cotterill after he’d brought him in off the heap. Of course when a new manager comes in he’ll have different ideas on such an ageing striker. Wilbs himself even went on to say that whilst he and LJ didn’t see eye to eye he still understood where he was coming from. There’s nothing in Wilbs story to say that LJ can’t handle certain players. Tomlin is a dick. Always had been a dick and always will be a dick. I put zero blame on LJ for Tomlin being a dick. 

Think you're right on Wilbraham. He was very complementary of Cotterill, but compared to Parkinson and Keith Hill, LJ's review was fairly positive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Came to a juddering halt with Souness though!

Dunno if he was the last of, but 'boot room' possibly not ideal for us at this time.

I think the owner sees something that works structurally elsewhere and then tries it out here, but with the wrong people.

If he wants to go head coach then he needs better people above and around that coach, or a better head coach. The current personnel are not fit for purpose in my opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

Which is the reason he endlessly uses phrases that either don't make grammatical sense, or he doesn't understand himself. 

He thinks he is more than he is. 

There is absolutely no doubt about that - he thinks he is too clever by half.

That clearly comes across in the all too frequent 'smugness'. This is going to take some explaining however, we buy a player, who was on loan, for £3m+ then punt him out a few months later......

It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall when that gets explained to SL.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, scrumpy88 said:

Hasn’t even given Palmer a good run in the team since he signed him. Why sign him in the first place if he’s not going to give him a chance. Palmer and Eliasson are the only 2 players in the squad that can make things happen, yet are the 2 who struggle to get game time. Whilst others who underperform week after week and just walk in.

Yet more piss poor man management from 

Nothing to see here its all a load of codswallop according to jamie mac

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

Hi Nick. 
Yep, most of the previous 4 pages of posts focussed on the negatives - rather sensationally. 
So I agree that I have extracted only the elements I wanted to focus on. 
Ultimately, the article says that KP gave EN positive feedback - so quite why the urge for most people to jump to “KP told EN not to come here” I don’t know.

As for Wilbs - the story he gave was very much that he had a lot of admiration for Cotterill after he’d brought him in off the heap. Of course when a new manager comes in he’ll have different ideas on such an ageing striker. Wilbs himself even went on to say that whilst he and LJ didn’t see eye to eye he still understood where he was coming from. There’s nothing in Wilbs story to say that LJ can’t handle certain players. Tomlin is a dick. Always had been a dick and always will be a dick. I put zero blame on LJ for Tomlin being a dick. 
 

Please don’t feel that I am defending LJ here. I have some questions over his ability to take us forward just as much as many others, but I think we ought to keep the debate fair and rational. KP is upset because he’s not playing regularly and his manager has called him out on it to improve. This happens all the time in football. It doesn’t mean the manager is unable to handle big players, it means that big players are unable to accept responsibility for their own actions. 
Plenty of examples of even high profile managers who struggle with player power. It’s not just LJ. 

Happy New Year mate.

Interestingly, the article doesn't say that KP gave EN positive feedback. It says

Alas, the timing is not good but the references are still all positive. However will Kasey Palmer now be in BS3 should Nketiah arrive?

Not being pedantic, I think that is significant, I think the author of the article wanted to conclude positively but couldn't honestly say that KP had given positive references about Johnson, hence just the vague "the references are still all positive"

which could just mean positive about the club if not the manager.

Wilbraham - who incidentally wasn't necessarily taken in by Cotterill off the heap as he was also speaking with Coventry and Birmingham at the time - described Tomlin as a clown and a joker, with some affection. Wilbs told the story of Tomlin over indulging in the cake shop and asking his team mates to send pictures back to the manager, who had criticised Tomlin over his body fat mass. Some might find that the behaviour of a dick, I find it amusing, life and football shouldn't be treated seriously all the time. Never met the guy, but on that description, think I'd like him. 

And lets face it Johnson had Tomlin on loan before buying him so he should have known all about him, after all doesn't Johnson pride himself on identifying players having the right DNA?

The fact remains with Johnson that he has reportedly struggled with man management and relationships with many players. This isn't about player power, its a consistent trend of reports of players being unhappy with their treatment by the manager. I cant think of any other manager where that has been the case.

I just honestly don't think he has the persona or authority to be taken seriously as a manager, never have.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, NickJ said:

Happy New Year mate.

Interestingly, the article doesn't say that KP gave EN positive feedback. It says

Alas, the timing is not good but the references are still all positive. However will Kasey Palmer now be in BS3 should Nketiah arrive?

Not being pedantic, I think that is significant, I think the author of the article wanted to conclude positively but couldn't honestly say that KP had given positive references about Johnson, hence just the vague "the references are still all positive"

which could just mean positive about the club if not the manager.

Wilbraham - who incidentally wasn't necessarily taken in by Cotterill off the heap as he was also speaking with Coventry and Birmingham at the time - described Tomlin as a clown and a joker, with some affection. Wilbs told the story of Tomlin over indulging in the cake shop and asking his team mates to send pictures back to the manager, who had criticised Tomlin over his body fat mass. Some might find that the behaviour of a dick, I find it amusing, life and football shouldn't be treated seriously all the time. Never met the guy, but on that description, think I'd like him. 

And lets face it Johnson had Tomlin on loan before buying him so he should have known all about him, after all doesn't Johnson pride himself on identifying players having the right DNA?

The fact remains with Johnson that he has reportedly struggled with man management and relationships with many players. This isn't about player power, its a consistent trend of reports of players being unhappy with their treatment by the manager. I cant think of any other manager where that has been the case.

I just honestly don't think he has the persona or authority to be taken seriously as a manager, never have.

Happy New Year to you too mate - hope you and the family are all well. 
 

As you quoted, the article says “the references are still all positive”. 
The only thing I read into that is that anything KP has said to EN has been positive. Not sure how that can be construed any other way? 
 

As for Tomlin - indeed, I’m sure we’d all get on with him and find him a roaring character. But is that behaviour ok in the workplace? As a professional athlete, if you show up overweight and your boss asks you to trim yourself up and you subsequently get fatter and send pics of you eating cake, that’s rather unprofessional and you can fully expect to be in the managers bad books. Wilbs acknowledged that in the interview. He knew LT was being intentionally obtuse. End of the day, supremely talented player, but there’s a reason he always gets dropped and moved on. He’s enjoying a purple patch under Harris now, it won’t last long. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, NickJ said:

Wilbraham - who incidentally wasn't necessarily taken in by Cotterill off the heap as he was also speaking with Coventry and Birmingham at the time - described Tomlin as a clown and a joker, with some affection. Wilbs told the story of Tomlin over indulging in the cake shop and asking his team mates to send pictures back to the manager, who had criticised Tomlin over his body fat mass. Some might find that the behaviour of a dick, I find it amusing, life and football shouldn't be treated seriously all the time. Never met the guy, but on that description, think I'd like him. 

If you were paying me very handsomely, certainly more than my colleagues, to be in my best physical condition and I sent you pictures of myself eating cake and essentially sticking two fingers up to you, would you think it's time not to take life too seriously and that it's top bants?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

Absolutely this.  I manage a team and I'd find it funny if outside of work my mates did it, but, if one of my team that I managed send me something like that when I'd asked them not to, that is pure disrespect.  So I see how Wilbs found it funny, but I can also see how LJ would get pissed. 

Massively disagree.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...