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Post story - LJ and Palmer conflict means Nketiah could go elsewhere

Major Isewater

By Major Isewater
in Football Chat

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Tinmans Love Child

Tinmans Love Child

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Badger08 said:

So you are talking all of this as FACT? 

But, we call all pick out sections of this clickbait.. 

 

"disagreements between the pair over Palmer's life outside of football" - Maybe he is drinking loads, or not training hard or eating the right things.... If he was, then wouldn't Lee be right in calling him out? 

"While the 23-year-old former Huddersfield and Blackburn Rovers man has plenty of friends at Bristol City and believes in the Robins' quest to make it to the Premier League"

"relationship between Palmer and Johnson is still salvageable"

But lets all have a pop a LJ again.  Lets all take this as the gospel truth, as everything the papers say is correct.  Tinnon is pissed off too and according to the express I'm going to be snowed in tomorrow.  

It’s funny how LJ seems to be the one blamed for a relationship breakdown with KP, could easily be KP with the issue and this is having a detriment to to the team?

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petehinton

petehinton

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

So you are taking all of this as FACT? 

But, we call all pick out sections of this clickbait.. 

 

"disagreements between the pair over Palmer's life outside of football" - Maybe he is drinking loads, or not training hard or eating the right things.... If he was, then wouldn't Lee be right in calling him out? 

"While the 23-year-old former Huddersfield and Blackburn Rovers man has plenty of friends at Bristol City and believes in the Robins' quest to make it to the Premier League"

"relationship between Palmer and Johnson is still salvageable"

But lets all have a pop a LJ again.  Lets all take this as the gospel truth, as everything the papers say is correct.  Tinnon is pissed off too and according to the express I'm going to be snowed in tomorrow.  

''Maybe he is drinking loads, or not training hard or eating the right things''

a quick glance on KP's social would show he's been privately training with a PT pretty much every day after training & has also gone vegan

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mozo

mozo

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

So you are taking all of this as FACT? 

But, we call all pick out sections of this clickbait.. 

 

"disagreements between the pair over Palmer's life outside of football" - Maybe he is drinking loads, or not training hard or eating the right things.... If he was, then wouldn't Lee be right in calling him out? 

"While the 23-year-old former Huddersfield and Blackburn Rovers man has plenty of friends at Bristol City and believes in the Robins' quest to make it to the Premier League"

"relationship between Palmer and Johnson is still salvageable"

But lets all have a pop a LJ again.  Lets all take this as the gospel truth, as everything the papers say is correct.  Tinnon is pissed off too and according to the express I'm going to be snowed in tomorrow.  

Well are you saying that the Post invented it? Big claim.

And re salvageable... here is the direct quote...

"Bristol Live understands that the relationship between Palmer and Johnson is still salvageable but is fast deteriorating"

How on Earth do you construe that sentence in anything other than a negative?! 

"salvageable but is fast deteriorating"

That is definitely bad!

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mozo

mozo

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Badger08 said:

I'm not really disputing that, what I'm trying to say is, we really don't know the facts of the situation.  Kasey could have called LJ a midget otters pocket as far as we know.  This could be shitstirring from Kaseys side.  Thats the problem, who knows. 

But even if that were true the whole story is basically correct, ie relationship breakdown.the story does not blame Lee Johnson, it just says that's what Palmer feels.

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LondonBristolian

LondonBristolian

Posted
Posted
51 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

This would tend to support @Harry's post yesterday about Ashton's recruitment although I still find it hard to believe that the coach is simply given players with no say in recruitment.

When you get such a situation something has to give, either Ashton or Johnson goes, or Lansdown changes his "vision" and adjusts roles.

Be a convenient cop out for the coach if he could point to the squad and say "I couldn't pick a consistent team or structure but none of them were my choices " wouldn't it.

 

I don’t see the recruitment issue as a massive problem. Like a lot of clubs - especially in Europe - we now seem to have a system where a scouting team identity players, a director buys players to fit a long term strategy and the coach identifies positions he wants to strengthen but someone else then buys those players.

What that theoretically does is protects the club because it means changing manager does not mean a change in recruitment strategy and moves us away from the days when GJ, Coppell, Millen, McInnes and SOD all bought players who were subsequently discarded by subsequent managers and avoids a situation like we had in our relegation season and first season in league one where out of favour players on long term contracts made it prohibitively expensive to bring quality players in.

The club is not unusual amongst modern clubs in using that strategy and LJ is not unusual amongst younger managers in terms of being willing to work within that strategy. And it only seems to become an issue when we are on poor runs of form. 

Don’t get me wrong - I do get the argument that our recruitment could be better at times but I don’t think the fact MA and the scouting team finalise targets rather than the manager is a massive internal conflict or a problem that needs to be resolved - just part of a general pattern of British football clubs moving away from the idea of the manager being the all-powerful figure at the club to a structure that allows for more long term planning.

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phantom

phantom

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

I'm not really disputing that, what I'm trying to say is, we really don't know the facts of the situation.  Kasey could have called LJ a midget otters pocket as far as we know.  This could be shitstirring from Kaseys side.  Thats the problem, who knows. 

My concern is that there is more to this, it isn't just Palmer that has fallen out with him there are others too.

As for Palmer, I'm not going to name names on an open forum, but he has also been really struggling on a MH level since the passing of Benik's child

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Sturny

Sturny

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

I'm not really disputing that, what I'm trying to say is, we really don't know the facts of the situation.  Kasey could have called LJ a midget otters pocket as far as we know.  This could be shitstirring from Kaseys side.  Thats the problem, who knows. 

Exactly. This article could be twisted to support both sides and contains a splash of clickbait.

Anyone one coming off very strongly with their opinions on these quotes are coming across a bit silly to me 

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petehinton

petehinton

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

I'm not really disputing that, what I'm trying to say is, we really don't know the facts of the situation.  Kasey could have called LJ a midget otters pocket as far as we know.  This could be shitstirring from Kaseys side.  Thats the problem, who knows. 

one thing's for sure and that is i'm stealing 'midget otters pocket' as a saying from now on!

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Tin Soldier

Tin Soldier

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Harry said:

Lots of overreaction to this story. 
 

Have people actually read it? 
 

It says :

- There is interest in Palmer from other clubs but KP believes in City’s premier league push but wouldn’t be against a move if he’s continually out of favour. 
- The relationship has had its ups and downs but is certainly still “salvageable”. 
- Palmer has spoken to Nketiah and the feedback is still “all positive”. 
 

My conclusion. Palmer is miffed at being out of the team (as any professional should be). LJ has likely told him to improve his performances, which have likely led to some heated conversations, but it’s a manager’s prerogative to tell his players where he wants them to improve. The relationship is not at rock bottom but if Palmer continues to find himself out of favour and LJ doesn’t think he merits a place then he’ll likely become more disaffected. This is just normal day to day football issues. 
Plus if Nketiah doesn’t sign, its nothing to do with KP as he’s given positive feedback. 
 

As for those saying that LJ can’t manage creative players. Are we talking about Tomlin here? I think you’ll find Tomlins issues were all of Tomlins making. Nothing to do with LJ’s man management. Are there any other examples of other ‘big name’ players falling out with LJ? I can’t recall any. 

The point (that many have raised on here many times) is that the players appear to not respect Johnson.

Make of it what you do, but any good manager who performs as a manager,  commands respect from his “team”.
Man management is a great skill. Sir Alex, Sir Bobby and others were past masters of this. The opposite scenario is with Johnson.

One thing you must never do, is throw your team (players) under the bus. Even when they are in the wrong. One lesson Johnson needs to learn fast!

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Sturny

Sturny

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, GasDestroyer said:

The point (that many have raised on here many times) is that the players appear to not respect Johnson.

Make of it what you do, but any good manager who performs as a manager,  commands respect from his “team”.
Man management is a great skill. Sir Alex, Sir Bobby and others were past masters of this. The opposite scenario is with Johnson.

One thing you must never do, is throw your team (players) under the bus. Even when they are in the wrong. One lesson Johnson needs to learn fast!

I can't think of a great deal of lessons he's learnt being at City 

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NickJ

NickJ

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, Harry said:

Lots of overreaction to this story. 
 

Have people actually read it? 
 

It says :

- There is interest in Palmer from other clubs but KP believes in City’s premier league push but wouldn’t be against a move if he’s continually out of favour. 
- The relationship has had its ups and downs but is certainly still “salvageable”. 
- Palmer has spoken to Nketiah and the feedback is still “all positive”. 
 

My conclusion. Palmer is miffed at being out of the team (as any professional should be). LJ has likely told him to improve his performances, which have likely led to some heated conversations, but it’s a manager’s prerogative to tell his players where he wants them to improve. The relationship is not at rock bottom but if Palmer continues to find himself out of favour and LJ doesn’t think he merits a place then he’ll likely become more disaffected. This is just normal day to day football issues. 
Plus if Nketiah doesn’t sign, its nothing to do with KP as he’s given positive feedback. 
 

As for those saying that LJ can’t manage creative players. Are we talking about Tomlin here? I think you’ll find Tomlins issues were all of Tomlins making. Nothing to do with LJ’s man management. Are there any other examples of other ‘big name’ players falling out with LJ? I can’t recall any. 

For reasons only you will know mate, by selectively reproducing extracts, and even inventing words that were not said, you have put a very different spin on the article than is the reality.

Take for example:

The relationship has had its ups and downs but is certainly still “salvageable”. 

It actually says: Bristol Live understands that the relationship between Palmer and Johnson is still salvageable but is fast deteriorating and that an exit is now a real possibility,

and before that:

Bristol Live understands that the relationship between Palmer and Lee Johnson has continued to nosedive and the former Chelsea player is not opposed to leaving Ashton Gate if the head coach continues to give him the cold shoulder treatment and does not believe in him.

As for whether or not Johnson can manage creative players, I have my doubts as to his man management per se. The Aaron Wilbrahim podcast was very insightful, in which he says Tomlin is not a bad lad, just a bit of a joker but he never did anything really bad and always trained well. I didn't hear anything at all in that interview to suggest that Tomlin had created any issues. 

Wilbrahim - who clearly had loads of respect for Cotterill but not so much for Johnson - also referred to disputes with Johnson over trivial issues, interesting when you refer back to another quote from the EP article:

Bristol Live understands that Palmer feels singled out and that Johnson has been unjustified and has reacted out of proportion to several match performances of late, with several disagreements between the pair over Palmer's life outside of football too. Often concerning trivial matters.

Yet again a player who was a crowd favourite, an entertainer, and seen as the talisman in a potential promotion push , feels marginalised and unfairly singled out for criticism. At some point you have to ask questions of the manager.

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mozo

mozo

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

Big claim that you're saying its true. It works both ways. 

Let's think about this logically.  Gregor has already been wrong about the Tinnion story, so that's one internal story he has wrong.  So where has this story come from? Do you think Kasey has phoned GM's mobile and been like "Hi Gregor, I've got a story for you about the gaffer".  So this story is either 4th or 5th hand!!  My point is, lets not take this as fact. 

I'm happy to be proved wrong, but let's be honest, our fans always take these things to fit their own agenda. 

I'm taking it you're someone who wants Johnson sacked? 

No, I've always said that Johnson should get to the end of the season, and I've never suggested Johnson has lost the dressing room. My current feeling though is that the form is unacceptable and needs to take a serious turn for the better. If we're on course to finish 11th in say late March, I'd be ready for a change, just to see if someone else can get the best out of what I perceive to be a talented squad.

Re the story, I'm not accepting the account as factual, but I'm saying that it spells bad news no matter how you think the story reached print. 

The best case scenario here is it was duff info from an unreliable source and that KP, LJ and the agent are all having a good laugh about it. Anything other than this is bad news.

Hasn't been denied by any of the three yet.

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, GasDestroyer said:

The point (that many have raised on here many times) is that the players appear to not respect Johnson.

Make of it what you do, but any good manager who performs as a manager,  commands respect from his “team”.
Man management is a great skill. Sir Alex, Sir Bobby and others were past masters of this. The opposite scenario is with Johnson.

One thing you must never do, is throw your team (players) under the bus. Even when they are in the wrong. One lesson Johnson needs to learn fast!

Struggling to see what lessons he does learn.

My criticisms are more tactical than man management as I don't know anything much behind the scenes, but that's another area in which lessons to learn are long overdue...granted my preferences may differ to others, but whatever a favoured setup/formation suited for this League, players from higher levels...he seems not to get the best out of many tactically, or produce such a setup- lack of learning again.

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George Rs

George Rs

Posted
Posted

Realistically 1 in 5 games Palmer can make a difference but almost all of the  time when he is playing the match forum is filled with “Palmer bad pass” “Palmer caught in possession” etc . Personally I think he good but not completely necessary to the club to keep a hold on to change our season . Comparing him to Elliason is silly in my opinion as elliason is proving himself valuable game in game out . Whereas Kasey does one gd thing now and then and gets the same credit . Not worth the fuss imo get him out and move on  

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LondonBristolian

LondonBristolian

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Sturny said:

Exactly. This article could be twisted to support both sides and contains a splash of clickbait.

Anyone one coming off very strongly with their opinions on these quotes are coming across a bit silly to me 

Indeed. The thing that strikes me in all this is that most of the alleged facts from either perspective could be true with no real wrongdoing or major issue on either side.

It may well be that KP feels unfairly singled out, a bit disillusioned at the club, like he isn’t being given credit for the amount of work he is putting in and is also struggling a great deal after a close friend lost a child who was a very similar age to his own child.

And it may well be that LJ feels KP is distracted by non-football matters, doesn’t follow tactical instructions and does not currently deserve to be in the squad on merit.

Both of those sentences could easily be equally true without either side being at fault. The worry for me is that stories like this are being leaked to the media when they should be managed and resolved internally but I don’t see any need for anyone to take LJ or KP’s side because, even if all this is true, there doesn’t necessarily need to be a “side” to take. If it is true, I hope it gets resolved but I see nothing in the story that makes me want to judge or blame anyone - just a bit of a tough workplace dynamic at the moment, which does sometimes happen.

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mozo

mozo

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

I think we can agree on this.  

I do get it, I'm not blinkered, but I know what some people with an agenda will use this for (not aimed at you).  

Yeah I don't think we actually disagree here

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Natchfever

Natchfever

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

So you are taking all of this as FACT? 

But, we call all pick out sections of this clickbait.. 

 

"disagreements between the pair over Palmer's life outside of football" - Maybe he is drinking loads, or not training hard or eating the right things.... If he was, then wouldn't Lee be right in calling him out? 

"While the 23-year-old former Huddersfield and Blackburn Rovers man has plenty of friends at Bristol City and believes in the Robins' quest to make it to the Premier League"

"relationship between Palmer and Johnson is still salvageable"

But lets all have a pop a LJ again.  Lets all take this as the gospel truth, as everything the papers say is correct.  Tinnon is pissed off too and according to the express I'm going to be snowed in tomorrow.  

Would you concede that the usually timid McGregor might be just slightly closer to sources than yourself ?

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

Big claim that you're saying its true. It works both ways. 

Let's think about this logically.  Gregor has already been wrong about the Tinnion story, so that's one internal story he has wrong.  So where has this story come from? Do you think Kasey has phoned GM's mobile and been like "Hi Gregor, I've got a story for you about the gaffer".  So this story is either 4th or 5th hand!!  My point is, lets not take this as fact. 

I'm happy to be proved wrong, but let's be honest, our fans always take these things to fit their own agenda. 

I'm taking it you're someone who wants Johnson sacked? 

He was wrong, but if it was indeed Louis Carey who fed him the story, you’d probably trust him wouldn’t you?  So, I suspect the person who’s intimated this story to Gregor isn’t a random guy on the street but someone who Gregor will’ve checked source.  It could be KP’s agent, angling for a move.  The source will be credible.  Whether the source is being mischievous is another matter.

4 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

I'm not saying everything is roses, but the Tinnion thing was a load of rubbish. Thats come from the man himself and I think @Davefevs has confirmed that too. 
If Kasey is struggling from MH issues, then you really can't blame him for whatever, but I have no idea.  All I'm trying to get at really, is lets not believe everything that is written in the Post.  

These sorts of stories really aren't helpful are they, especially at the moment.  

They aren’t helpful, depending on which side of the fence you sit on.

I’m on the fence re LJ.  There are things I like about him, things I don’t.  As I said earlier, when a team is winning everything is rosy, when it’s not you see cracks.  Hardly surprising we are hearing stories during a bad run.  They probably go on all the time, but the microscope is on at the mo’, so we are hearing “stuff”.

Whatever the case we are in for a bumpy January.

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mozo

mozo

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He was wrong, but if it was indeed Louis Carey who fed him the story, you’d probably trust him wouldn’t you?  So, I suspect the person who’s intimated this story to Gregor isn’t a random guy on the street but someone who Gregor will’ve checked source.  It could be KP’s agent, angling for a move.  The source will be credible.  Whether the source is being mischievous is another matter.

They aren’t helpful, depending on which side of the fence you sit on.

I’m on the fence re LJ.  There are things I like about him, things I don’t.  As I said earlier, when a team is winning everything is rosy, when it’s not you see cracks.  Hardly surprising we are hearing stories during a bad run.  They probably go on all the time, but the microscope is on at the mo’, so we are hearing “stuff”.

Whatever the case we are in for a bumpy January.

Just at a time when we need cohesion, focus and unity to get the season back on track. We need to turn up against Wigan.

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exAtyeoMax

exAtyeoMax

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He was wrong, but if it was indeed Louis Carey who fed him the story, you’d probably trust him wouldn’t you?  So, I suspect the person who’s intimated this story to Gregor isn’t a random guy on the street but someone who Gregor will’ve checked source.  It could be KP’s agent, angling for a move.  The source will be credible.  Whether the source is being mischievous is another matter.

They aren’t helpful, depending on which side of the fence you sit on.

I’m on the fence re LJ.  There are things I like about him, things I don’t.  As I said earlier, when a team is winning everything is rosy, when it’s not you see cracks.  Hardly surprising we are hearing stories during a bad run.  They probably go on all the time, but the microscope is on at the mo’, so we are hearing “stuff”.

Whatever the case we are in for a bumpy January.

But did a falling out create the bad run? Not saying it did, but things weren’t too bad up until Fulham away, then it was suddenly bad against Millwall. So many scenarios to consider 

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