Natchfever Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 12 minutes ago, BTRFTG said: As somebody who over the years was tasked with the responsibility of managing a number of others there's one thing you learn very quickly. You delegate and encourage others to stand up and make their own decisions, to revel in any success they deliver but always on the proviso that when things go wrong it's YOU and YOU ALONE who shoulders the blame. Your charges will know the truth, as will others, but it'll also gain you their trust and future commitment. Nothing wrong with a blame culture, but never do it in public rather quietly explain how such failings might be avoided and listen to why others think they've failed rather than simply pointing out to their obvious failings (as if they wouldn't know already.) Review WeeLee's recent post-match press conferences and draw your own conclusions. C;learly no UEFA coaching badges for that then..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, numbeast said: I hear this phrase everytime we hit a bad run or the managers tenure is, or as some would like, coming to an end. Now this isn't about Lee Johnson or any other manager in particular. If the squad are unhappy with their coach/manager that's fair enough. It becomes wrong when the let it affect their work. In the real world there are plenty of poor manager regardless of the industry we all have to put up with. Imagine you disliked your manager in work and the quality of your work went into free fall. Who would be getting the disciplinary? These players are Bristol City employees not Lee Johnsons, not Steve Lansdowns they are, for the want of a better word, the property of the club. If there is a growing discord between the manager and his squad then those with a grievance should go to either the chairman or the owner and tell them what the problem is. You can question the managements ability to motivate but surely running out to the cheers and applause of 17 or 18,000 home fans should be motivation enough. These guys are living the dream of millions of 18 to 30 year old men, doing something they love and getting far more money than they would in almost any other walk of life. When I thought about starting this topic I tried to see it from many angles and came to a worrying conclusion. The squad may have lost respect for the manager but by putting in substandard performances they are showing disrespect to the club who pay their wages but more importantly they're showing no respect to the likes of you and I, the fans who give up time and money to watch them not just at BS3 but all over the country. So my message to the squad would be, if your unhappy take the problem up with the manager. If you get no joy take it to Steve Lansdown. Finally if there's no improvement hand in a transfer request en mass and do it very publically I'm sure your agents to arrange the publicity. Don't make the fans suffer. Can you honestly compare your reality to that of a professional football player? Performance in a team sport is a complex subject that generally does not parallel wider society. In sport it is illogical to expect individuals to still perform at their best when they cease to respect and trust people who control large parts of their professional life. It would take a special individual not to be affected and we are not wired like that in general. The above is not a reflection of Lee Johnson just on your parallel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 30 minutes ago, BTRFTG said: As somebody who over the years was tasked with the responsibility of managing a number of others there's one thing you learn very quickly. You delegate and encourage others to stand up and make their own decisions, to revel in any success they deliver but always on the proviso that when things go wrong it's YOU and YOU ALONE who shoulders the blame. Your charges will know the truth, as will others, but it'll also gain you their trust and future commitment. Nothing wrong with a blame culture, but never do it in public rather quietly explain how such failings might be avoided and listen to why others think they've failed rather than simply pointing out to their obvious failings (as if they wouldn't know already.) Review WeeLee's recent post-match press conferences and draw your own conclusions. I’ve also managed at a very senior level for many years, and if my staff had believed it was ME and ME ALONE who would take the blame, it would be a huge recipe for complacency and carelessness. I have always delegated but on the basis that if things go wrong we’re all in it together, and while I see almost all mistakes as recoverable, people have to take responsibility for their own individual errors. What I would take responsibility for is poor organisation, poor planning and a lack of morale and team spirit, but people in every walk of life have got to step up and take responsibility for their own performances, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said: I’ve also managed at a very senior level for many years, and if my staff had believed it was ME and ME ALONE who would take the blame, it would be a huge recipe for complacency and carelessness. I have always delegated but on the basis that if things go wrong we’re all in it together, and while I see almost all mistakes as recoverable, people have to take responsibility for their own individual errors. What I would take responsibility for is poor organisation, poor planning and a lack of morale and team spirit, but people in every walk of life have got to step up and take responsibility for their own performances. If you read what I wrote I said what happens in private, publicly it must always be a different story. That does not lead to staff believing anything other than the truth or complacency, rather reinforces the objectives one desires. You manage, the buck stops with you and you get to those management positions through job applications and interviews by refering to 'I', never 'We'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, BTRFTG said: If you read what I wrote I said what happens in private, publicly it must always be a different story. That does not lead to staff believing anything other than the truth or complacency, rather reinforces the objectives one desires. You manage, the buck stops with you and you get to those management positions through job applications and interviews by refering to 'I', never 'We'. I didn’t read what you wrote, I just don’t necessarily agree with it. No problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 Noticed the comment bad run a few times which of course is true. However its a run of inept performances not just poor results that make people think there are issues in the dressing room and at the club! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted January 3, 2020 Admin Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 2 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said: Lost the Dressing Room (phrase) One of those lazy throwaway comments that accompanies a bad run and doesn’t nevesssily have any basis in fact. See also: Yes man, bust-up, thrown under the bus It could mean anything, from losing the players interest and attention, but being able to turn it round and recover, right through to being a hated figure, who the group conspire to get rid of. So whilst it is a bit of a glib phrase, it covers a multitude of scenarios and occasionally when a team is on a bad run, probably has some merit. I think it matters not whether you are a footballer, or working in another role, you are going to perform better if you don’t think your Manager is a dick, be that for a few hours and you make up, or it’s a deep seated, won’t change attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 I think the other thing related to this is this idea that "player x has been overheard whining about his boss to his friends so there are obviously massive problems". I've honestly never worked in a workplace where people don't whinge about their boss from time to time. My current manager is the best manager I've ever had and I've frequently told him, and other people, that. Yet I've also had at least two massive shouting matches with him, called him an arrogant **** to his face and told friends in the pub he's an absolute arsehole. Falling out with your boss from time to time doesn't necessarily mean there is a crisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Cowshed said: Can you honestly compare your reality to that of a professional football player? Performance in a team sport is a complex subject that generally does not parallel wider society. In sport it is illogical to expect individuals to still perform at their best when they cease to respect and trust people who control large parts of their professional life. It would take a special individual not to be affected and we are not wired like that in general. The above is not a reflection of Lee Johnson just on your parallel. Any areas you would compare ? I would have thought a soldier would simply have to perform at their best, and at a much lesser level, people who are paid on results even if their didn't respect or even trust those in control. Both examples working in "teams" of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 3 hours ago, steveybadger said: Not sure who said it (may have been a cricketer) but team spirit was once described as something like a temporary illusion created by winning. Think it was Colin Dredge, mate. Pretty sure it was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 Players will always be disappointed - and sometimes annoyed - not to make the 11 or 18. That, I'd imagine, is at the heart of any Kasey Palmer beef with Johnson. But it's nothing that players won't see at any club, or indeed managers have to deal with on an ongoing basis everywhere in their career. If the idea is that somehow every player is playing badly (and i thought they were all sub-par on Wednesday, with the possible exception of Fammy and Watkins) because one or more are feeling aggrieved at being left out, that - to borrow a phrase from Capt Mainwaring - is straying into the realms of fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Septic Peg Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 Jeez people. Just tag me like. I don't bite unless you ask nicely. Yes I've said it and yes, I said it today. There have been rumours of a row with COD and now KP. We all know what happened with Tomlin. We also know that LJ isn't the coolest of cucumbers (see NYD) when he got his knickers in a knot. Pressure is a hard thing to deal with and we all lose our shit now and again. But I also believe there is no smoke without fire. These rumours have been flying around and I believe there has to be an element of truth. How many of us has cussed our boss under our breath? The incoherence, the familiar faces, the odd decisions. I think a fair few lads are fed up and that is showing both on the training pitch (so not getting picked) and the lacklustre performance in a match. I'll be happy to eat humble pie if I'm wrong but there is more to this than KP moving to Swansea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, Septic Peg said: Jeez people. Just tag me like. I don't bite unless you ask nicely. Yes I've said it and yes, I said it today. There have been rumours of a row with COD and now KP. We all know what happened with Tomlin. We also know that LJ isn't the coolest of cucumbers (see NYD) when he got his knickers in a knot. Pressure is a hard thing to deal with and we all lose our shit now and again. But I also believe there is no smoke without fire. These rumours have been flying around and I believe there has to be an element of truth. How many of us has cussed our boss under our breath? The incoherence, the familiar faces, the odd decisions. I think a fair few lads are fed up and that is showing both on the training pitch (so not getting picked) and the lacklustre performance in a match. I'll be happy to eat humble pie if I'm wrong but there is more to this than KP moving to Swansea. He manages the familiar faces, yet is also prone to some quite big shifts in the team selection game to game- quite a feat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrongagain Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said: Players will always be disappointed - and sometimes annoyed - not to make the 11 or 18. That, I'd imagine, is at the heart of any Kasey Palmer beef with Johnson. But it's nothing that players won't see at any club, or indeed managers have to deal with on an ongoing basis everywhere in their career. If the idea is that somehow every player is playing badly (and i thought they were all sub-par on Wednesday, with the possible exception of Fammy and Watkins) because one or more are feeling aggrieved at being left out, that - to borrow a phrase from Capt Mainwaring - is straying into the realms of fantasy. Just been reading GMG and he claims LJ told the squad of 18 they had to travel on Christmas Day, KP was not in the squad but was also told to travel - big deal to a young player with a young family, I would have been pretty miffed too, faced with that kind of Petty minded instruction - once again, if true, it reflects on LJs poor man management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glen humphries Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 minute ago, dave36 said: Just been reading GMG and he claims LJ told the squad of 18 they had to travel on Christmas Day, PK was not in the squad but was also told to travel - big deal to a young player with a young family, I would have been pretty miffed too, faced with that kind of Petty minded instruction - once again, if true, it reflects on LJs poor man management. If that’s true it says a lot about Johnson, petty at best , total manual manipulator at worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 5 hours ago, Homer Simpson said: I believe the phrase was first used just after the turn of the century, when Ian Holloway was in charge of the gas. But it was a particularly stormy time at the mem and the dressing room was eventually located hanging from telephone wires above Filton Avenue. The phrase has been around as long as I can remember. I don't think he has, yet. But publicly slating individuals is one of the quickest ways to instigate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrongagain Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, glen humphries said: If that’s true it says a lot about Johnson, petty at best , total manual manipulator at worst. For those that missed it: Why is Palmer so upset? How has Lee Johnson 'mis-treated' Kasey? Here is one example: we understand that every player who was not in the 18-man squad for the game against Charlton Athletic on Boxing Day was told that they did not need to travel on Christmas Day. However, Palmer was then made to travel despite not being in the 18. This was seen as specifically aimed at Palmer. Of course, Lee Johnson may have his reasons for this, but it does not sound good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 6 minutes ago, glen humphries said: If that’s true it says a lot about Johnson, petty at best , total manual manipulator at worst. 8 minutes ago, dave36 said: Just been reading GMG and he claims LJ told the squad of 18 they had to travel on Christmas Day, KP was not in the squad but was also told to travel - big deal to a young player with a young family, I would have been pretty miffed too, faced with that kind of Petty minded instruction - once again, if true, it reflects on LJs poor man management. Don't believe that. The players almost always travel to a hotel on Christmas afternoon and always will have a couple or three reserves in addition to 18 man squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 15 minutes ago, dave36 said: Just been reading GMG and he claims LJ told the squad of 18 they had to travel on Christmas Day, KP was not in the squad but was also told to travel - big deal to a young player with a young family, I would have been pretty miffed too, faced with that kind of Petty minded instruction - once again, if true, it reflects on LJs poor man management. Hmm, can't argue with that. And TBF can't quite see why Johnson would've done that. I guess the idea was to have a #19 with you, in case one of the 18 developed something last minute. At Christmas though, you'd think he could be flexible over that. It being entirely possible to get to London on Boxing Day morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Army 75 Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 The legend has spoken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said: The legend has spoken Well, he's hardly gonna say! "Don't panic Mr. Johnson, Don't Panic" "We're all doomed!" Is he? Dressing room lost, dunno but I perhaps think there are unhappy individuals- not necessarily bad apples but unhappy individuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Army 75 Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Well, he;'s hardly gonna say! "Don't panic, Don't Panic" "We're all doomed" Is he? Dressing room lost, dunno but I perhaps think there are unhappy individuals- not necessarily bad apples but unhappy individuals. Just a bit of fun . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 Just now, Red Army 75 said: Just a bit of fun . Ha yeah, true- so was my post a bit tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickle Rick Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 Dressing room unhappiness will always exist. As will falling out. Squads are pretty big these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveller Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 5 hours ago, Super said: The bottom line is that he doesn't know his best team or formation or how to use and get the best out of some talented players. Of course when he sticks to a formation or lineup he’s accused of having No Plan B .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 32 minutes ago, dave36 said: For those that missed it: Why is Palmer so upset? How has Lee Johnson 'mis-treated' Kasey? Here is one example: we understand that every player who was not in the 18-man squad for the game against Charlton Athletic on Boxing Day was told that they did not need to travel on Christmas Day. However, Palmer was then made to travel despite not being in the 18. This was seen as specifically aimed at Palmer. Of course, Lee Johnson may have his reasons for this, but it does not sound good. If this is true that doesn’t look great. It’s not just Kasey Palmer who would be seething at that.......the rest of the squad would be looking at that and thinking “that’s crap” even if they don’t say it. Yes, players are paid a good wedge and are in effect the “property of the club” but they are also human beings with natural reactions. A bloke has been taken away from his family on Christmas Day and he potentially thinks it’s out of spite. That will never end well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 8 minutes ago, Numero Uno said: If this is true that doesn’t look great. It’s not just Kasey Palmer who would be seething at that.......the rest of the squad would be looking at that and thinking “that’s crap” even if they don’t say it. Yes, players are paid a good wedge and are in effect the “property of the club” but they are also human beings with natural reactions. A bloke has been taken away from his family on Christmas Day and he potentially thinks it’s out of spite. That will never end well. He probably refused to go out on loan to Torquay.. Palmer and the squad members will know whether his selection as backup was logical or spitefulfar better than anyone on otib. If the latter, I would expect anyone in the squad who has developed a good relationship with him to feel aggrieved on his behalf. If there was a reason then he should STFU it comes with being a very well paid footballer and he would know that before he had a family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEyez Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 Just gonna leave this here....(regardless of Tins’ poor grammar) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 17 minutes ago, Natchfever said: He probably refused to go out on loan to Torquay.. Palmer and the squad members will know whether his selection as backup was logical or spitefulfar better than anyone on otib. If the latter, I would expect anyone in the squad who has developed a good relationship with him to feel aggrieved on his behalf. If there was a reason then he should STFU it comes with being a very well paid footballer and he would know that before he had a family. Agree totally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou2BS7 Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 14 minutes ago, RedEyez said: Just gonna leave this here....(regardless of Tins’ poor grammar) What else is he going to say? Hahah. Confirm the rumours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.