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The phrase "Lost The Dressingroom"


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I hear this phrase everytime we hit a bad run or the managers tenure is, or as some would like, coming to an end. Now this isn't about Lee Johnson or any other manager in particular.

If the squad are unhappy with their coach/manager that's fair enough. It becomes wrong when the let it affect their work. In the real world there are plenty of poor manager regardless of the industry we all have to put up with. Imagine you disliked your manager in work and the quality of your work went into free fall. Who would be getting the disciplinary? 

These players are Bristol City employees not Lee Johnsons, not Steve Lansdowns they are, for the want of a better word, the property of the club. If there is a growing discord between the manager and his squad then those with a grievance should go to either the chairman or the owner and tell them what the problem is.

You can question the managements ability to motivate but surely running out to the cheers and applause of 17 or 18,000 home fans should be motivation enough. These guys are living the dream of millions of 18 to 30 year old men, doing something they love and getting far more money than they would in almost any other walk of life.

When I thought about starting this topic I tried to see it from many angles and came to a worrying conclusion. The squad may have lost respect for the manager but by putting in substandard performances they are showing disrespect to the club who pay their wages but more importantly they're showing no respect to the likes of you and I, the fans who give up time and money to watch them not just at BS3 but all over the country.

So my message to the squad would be, if your unhappy take the problem up with the manager. If you get no joy take it to Steve Lansdown. Finally if there's no improvement hand in a transfer request en mass and do it very publically I'm sure your agents to arrange the publicity. Don't make the fans suffer.

 

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My view on this for what it's worth isn't necessarily that they are not motivated, more frustrated with the way they are being asked to play and constant changes of personnel, systems  and let's not forget the public flogging of some players either if they make a mistake, whereas the management don't seem to take responsibility for anything....

There is a pattern developing with LJ and his behaviour that is simply de ja vu of how is Father ended here.

Either way something is not right down there and it can't be all down to players can it? I mean he's signed 50 of them ffs!

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7 minutes ago, numbeast said:

I hear this phrase everytime we hit a bad run or the managers tenure is, or as some would like, coming to an end. Now this isn't about Lee Johnson or any other manager in particular.

If the squad are unhappy with their coach/manager that's fair enough. It becomes wrong when the let it affect their work. In the real world there are plenty of poor manager regardless of the industry we all have to put up with. Imagine you disliked your manager in work and the quality of your work went into free fall. Who would be getting the disciplinary? 

These players are Bristol City employees not Lee Johnsons, not Steve Lansdowns they are, for the want of a better word, the property of the club. If there is a growing discord between the manager and his squad then those with a grievance should go to either the chairman or the owner and tell them what the problem is.

You can question the managements ability to motivate but surely running out to the cheers and applause of 17 or 18,000 home fans should be motivation enough. These guys are living the dream of millions of 18 to 30 year old men, doing something they love and getting far more money than they would in almost any other walk of life.

When I thought about starting this topic I tried to see it from many angles and came to a worrying conclusion. The squad may have lost respect for the manager but by putting in substandard performances they are showing disrespect to the club who pay their wages but more importantly they're showing no respect to the likes of you and I, the fans who give up time and money to watch them not just at BS3 but all over the country.

So my message to the squad would be, if your unhappy take the problem up with the manager. If you get no joy take it to Steve Lansdown. Finally if there's no improvement hand in a transfer request en mass and do it very publically I'm sure your agents to arrange the publicity. Don't make the fans suffer.

 

Problem is that unlike any other industry the players are not only employees but also saleable assets and that throws another spanner in the works.

 

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The players are being over coached.

Imagine coming from Chelsea where you have been coached by some of the best in the industry to then have a jumped up 37 year old, backed up by a couple of very average footballers, telling you've done it all wrong these years. 

Edited by The hand of RO'D
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The phrase is only trotted out when your team is losing.

Players and staff not getting on is commonplace.  Most of the time they just get on with it.  Players out of the team more likely to be upset than those in it.

I think it’s an easy phrase to throw out there when your team is losing.

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I believe the phrase was first used just after the turn of the century, when Ian Holloway was in charge of the gas. But it was a particularly stormy time at the mem and the dressing room was eventually located hanging from telephone wires above Filton Avenue.

 

windy john candy GIF

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19 minutes ago, numbeast said:

I hear this phrase everytime we hit a bad run or the managers tenure is, or as some would like, coming to an end. Now this isn't about Lee Johnson or any other manager in particular.

If the squad are unhappy with their coach/manager that's fair enough. It becomes wrong when the let it affect their work. In the real world there are plenty of poor manager regardless of the industry we all have to put up with. Imagine you disliked your manager in work and the quality of your work went into free fall. Who would be getting the disciplinary? 

These players are Bristol City employees not Lee Johnsons, not Steve Lansdowns they are, for the want of a better word, the property of the club. If there is a growing discord between the manager and his squad then those with a grievance should go to either the chairman or the owner and tell them what the problem is.

You can question the managements ability to motivate but surely running out to the cheers and applause of 17 or 18,000 home fans should be motivation enough. These guys are living the dream of millions of 18 to 30 year old men, doing something they love and getting far more money than they would in almost any other walk of life.

When I thought about starting this topic I tried to see it from many angles and came to a worrying conclusion. The squad may have lost respect for the manager but by putting in substandard performances they are showing disrespect to the club who pay their wages but more importantly they're showing no respect to the likes of you and I, the fans who give up time and money to watch them not just at BS3 but all over the country.

So my message to the squad would be, if your unhappy take the problem up with the manager. If you get no joy take it to Steve Lansdown. Finally if there's no improvement hand in a transfer request en mass and do it very publically I'm sure your agents to arrange the publicity. Don't make the fans suffer.

 

Conversely, this money can also perhaps kill the hunger, or sate it at least.

Even a certain Tammy I see is agitating for significantly higher wages...he had a top class DNA at City so interested to see if this has an impact, down the track.

This isn't so much about losing the dressing room, or even a City thing as such.

Likely way out, probably am but one possibility might be:

  • Nice wage
  • Nice lifestyle
  • Nice city- with surrounding countryside on doorstep, or vice versa.
  • Fairly nice club at which to work.

Like I say, far from City specific...but where is the hunger, especially over Christmas, to really bust a gut?

I listed around Christmas quite a few clubs moderate, big and major where this could be the case.

http://outsideoftheboot.com/2017/10/16/interview-ex-premier-league-players-on-the-problem-with-young-footballers/

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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11 minutes ago, numbeast said:

I hear this phrase everytime we hit a bad run or the managers tenure is, or as some would like, coming to an end. Now this isn't about Lee Johnson or any other manager in particular.

If the squad are unhappy with their coach/manager that's fair enough. It becomes wrong when the let it affect their work. In the real world there are plenty of poor manager regardless of the industry we all have to put up with. Imagine you disliked your manager in work and the quality of your work went into free fall. Who would be getting the disciplinary? 

These players are Bristol City employees not Lee Johnsons, not Steve Lansdowns they are, for the want of a better word, the property of the club. If there is a growing discord between the manager and his squad then those with a grievance should go to either the chairman or the owner and tell them what the problem is.

You can question the managements ability to motivate but surely running out to the cheers and applause of 17 or 18,000 home fans should be motivation enough. These guys are living the dream of millions of 18 to 30 year old men, doing something they love and getting far more money than they would in almost any other walk of life.

When I thought about starting this topic I tried to see it from many angles and came to a worrying conclusion. The squad may have lost respect for the manager but by putting in substandard performances they are showing disrespect to the club who pay their wages but more importantly they're showing no respect to the likes of you and I, the fans who give up time and money to watch them not just at BS3 but all over the country.

So my message to the squad would be, if your unhappy take the problem up with the manager. If you get no joy take it to Steve Lansdown. Finally if there's no improvement hand in a transfer request en mass and do it very publically I'm sure your agents to arrange the publicity. Don't make the fans suffer.

 

Another dynamic might be that some of the dressing room isn't getting onto the pitch and are close with some who are, to the extent that underperformances might be linked rightly or wrongly to a mate not being selected. Additionally players might be selected but played in a manneror role which they aren't comfortable with.

If you are having a shitter, the 17-18000m home fans reactions may not be applause !

I think your final paragraph might be a little old school nowadays, and the line of control would presumably go from Johnson to Ashton to Lansdown Junior, although possibly via an agent from day one.

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1 minute ago, The hand of RO'D said:

The players are being over coached.

Imagine coming from Chelsea where you have been coached by some of the best in the industry to then have a jumped up 37 year old, backed up by a couple of very average footballers, telling you've done it all wrong these years. 

You apparently seem to know an awful lot of info. How would you even know such things as above? 

 

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The phrase is only trotted out when your team is losing.

Players and staff not getting on is commonplace.  Most of the time they just get on with it.  Players out of the team more likely to be upset than those in it.

I think it’s an easy phrase to throw out there when your team is losing.

This. 

Truth is no one on here has the slightest clue if he has ‘lost’ the dressing room, just adding to massive over reaction on wanting LJ out.

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4 minutes ago, The hand of RO'D said:

The players are being over coached.

Imagine coming from Chelsea where you have been coached by some of the best in the industry to then have a jumped up 37 year old, backed up by a couple of very average footballers, telling you've done it all wrong these years. 

How do you know they are being overcoached? There are clear examples in recent times where players have been improved? 

Referring to LJ as jumped up just sounds like an insult rather than objective criticism.

And when did somebody’s playing career dictate how good a coach they are? The examples where average player makes a great coach aren’t hide to find.

With respect.

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5 minutes ago, BCFC11 said:

You apparently seem to know an awful lot of info. How would you even know such things as above? 

 

This. 

Truth is no one on here has the slightest clue if he has ‘lost’ the dressing room, just adding to massive over reaction on wanting LJ out.

Not sure who said it (may have been a cricketer) but team spirit was once described as something like a temporary illusion created by winning.

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16 minutes ago, The hand of RO'D said:

The players are being over coached.

Imagine coming from Chelsea where you have been coached by some of the best in the industry to then have a jumped up 37 year old, backed up by a couple of very average footballers, telling you've done it all wrong these years. 

I'd also add to merely ex Chelsea players a few others for consideration if we're going down this road.

  1. Williams- though he generally seems a pro, the Brentford tackle notwithstanding
  2. Massengo, 18 I think- but from a top class academy in Monaco.
  3. Nagy- Hungary International, played in Serie A.

In fairness, it can be mixed, he certainly was getting a return from Afobe.

Prior though, to name a few more:

  1. POSSIBLY Pisano- Though he did okay. Nonetheless, experienced and has played in Serie A. Injuries didn't help.
  2. POSSIBLY to an extent Magnússon- Threw him under the bus in an interview IIRC. From Juventus youth, or involved at that level, some notable International performances- not saying he was brilliant but unsure he was managed the best? Was younger tho.
  3. O'Neil- Number of promotions won, very experienced. Injuries of course.
  4. Hegeler- In the right system, a very decent player. Experienced, played in Bundesliga and fleeting CL appearances. Injuries of course.

One thing I have noticed about these more experienced or higher level players- and this includes Kalas, Palmer- DaSilva and his injuries mean it's too early to say, is that in a fair few cases, they seem to have got worse while they are here over time under LJ etc.

Of course playing career doesn't dictate coaching ability but I just have nagging doubts in certain areas...

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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Sometimes teams go on bad runs simply due to lack of confidence.

In terms of losing the dressing room I’ll never forget our 4-0 home defeat to Leicester that got McInnes fired. Gerken who was treated shabbily by McInnes given his performances compared to the hapless David James literally said “have that” as he chucked about three goals into the net!! McInnes could not stop staring at him but never got a glance back😂

I’m not seeing players going through the motions or not giving a stuff just yet so on that basis would argue there is no evidence to suggest that the dressing has been lost by LJ.

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21 minutes ago, numbeast said:

If the squad are unhappy with their coach/manager that's fair enough

No it isn't. The fundamental principle of man management is to maximise the potential of those under your charge. You don't have to be liked but you must be respected and if employees are unhappy with you that shows you've failed in explaining your objectives, failed to demonstrate you've afforded fair and equal consideration to all and  fundamentally failed to communicate proportionately such you keep all, including those who may be disgruntled, onside.

Naughty steps and exclusions do not figure.

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6 minutes ago, steveybadger said:

How do you know they are being overcoached? There are clear examples in recent times where players have been improved? 

Referring to LJ as jumped up just sounds like an insult rather than objective criticism.

And when did somebody’s playing career dictate how good a coach they are? The examples where average player makes a great coach aren’t hide to find.

With respect.

Jumped up was probably a bad phrase to use. 

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4 minutes ago, steveybadger said:

Not sure who said it (may have been a cricketer) but team spirit was once described as something like a temporary illusion created by winning.

Agreed tbh. Every squad is rammed full of players sat on the bench or outside of the squad altogether who all think exactly the same thing.......”I should be out there”. When teams are winning they have to suck it up........lose 5 out of 6 and the dynamic shifts a bit!!!

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8 minutes ago, steveybadger said:

Not sure who said it (may have been a cricketer) but team spirit was once described as something like a temporary illusion created by winning.

Sounds like something Kevin Pietersen would have said 

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6 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I never want to hear the phrase “box entries” after a 4-0 battering ever again😂

Agreed. The only positive to come out of that game was that we were positively stuffed. Grow some bollycocks and be honest. Surely "box entries" is a term used by Rooney and his Granny shag.

Edited by BigTone
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10 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

No it isn't. The fundamental principle of man management is to maximise the potential of those under your charge. You don't have to be liked but you must be respected and if employees are unhappy with you that shows you've failed in explaining your objectives, failed to demonstrate you've afforded fair and equal consideration to all and  fundamentally failed to communicate proportionately such you keep all, including those who may be disgruntled, onside.

Naughty steps and exclusions do not figure.

Absolutely - and that's all the more so when your 'product' is the performance of the people you manage - the show they put on. Once the match starts there's limited opportunity as a manager to influence performance, you're in the hands of the folk you've been prepping all week. Do that badly and it's a fiasco, and that's down to you. What you're aiming for is a group that understands exactly what's expected of them and has the confidence to react to challenges...a group that can show off everything you've been working on together, and can put on a show. That doesn't happen with disgruntled, resentful, folk.

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33 minutes ago, BCFC11 said:

You apparently seem to know an awful lot of info. How would you even know such things as above? 

 

This. 

Truth is no one on here has the slightest clue if he has ‘lost’ the dressing room, just adding to massive over reaction on wanting LJ out.

Bang on. I've not seen any evidence. Not one player as far as I'm aware has complained about LJ or the backroom staff. I'm certainly hoping such comments are not based on one comment from McGregor, a reporter consistently castigated on here, that the relationship with KP, one player, is on the down slope. 

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11 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Agreed. The only positive to come out of that game was that we were positively stuffed. Grow some bollycocks and be honest. Surely "box entries" is a term used by Rooney and his Granny shag.

Not the only positive, getting Fam fired up in the right way! None of us have ever seen him play like that before - I think that was down to Korey, demonstrating who should be wearing the armband

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As somebody who over the years was tasked with the responsibility of managing a number of others there's one thing you learn very quickly. You delegate and encourage others to stand up and make their own decisions, to revel in any success they deliver but always on the proviso that when things go wrong it's YOU and YOU ALONE who shoulders the blame. Your charges will know the truth, as will others, but it'll also gain you their trust and future commitment. Nothing wrong with a blame culture, but never do it in public rather quietly explain how such failings might be avoided and listen to why others think they've failed rather than simply pointing out to their obvious failings (as if they wouldn't know already.)

Review WeeLee's recent post-match press conferences and draw your own conclusions.

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4 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

As somebody who over the years was tasked with the responsibility of managing a number of others there's one thing you learn very quickly. You delegate and encourage others to stand up and make their own decisions, to revel in any success they deliver but always on the proviso that when things go wrong it's YOU and YOU ALONE who shoulders the blame. Your charges will know the truth, as will others, but it'll also gain you their trust and future commitment. Nothing wrong with a blame culture, but never do it in public rather quietly explain how such failings might be avoided and listen to why others think they've failed rather than simply pointing out to their obvious failings (as if they wouldn't know already.)

Review WeeLee's recent post-match press conferences and draw your own conclusions.

Spot on that

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