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Lez

Trimming the squad - LJ is lost

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16 minutes ago, arpaul said:

I wonder where we'd be if Cotterill had been afforded Johnson war chest?

Given we couldn't afford it when he was here kind of a moot point

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2 hours ago, Roger Red Hat said:

If I remember correctly, we were very fortunate with injuries that season.

SC admitted afterwards that it was a massive gamble to go with a squad that size and he did wonder at various times during that season whether he'd got it right.

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12 minutes ago, Harry said:

That’s how it works in so far as what’s in the public domain. Lots of half truths are of course always part of a clubs communication strategy to its fans. 
The actual truth is not quite that. 

LJ does have some say, of course he does. But it’s quite minor when compared to other managers who work under different systems. 
Ours is very much the traditional Director of Football role which many in English football don’t ever understand and won’t ever accept. 


LJ says “I’m looking for a left back, one who is quick, able to deliver a quality cross”. 
Ashton and his team scour their network and provide a shortlist. 
LJ of course has a say in whom from that shortlist he’d accept, but if it’s a choice of A, a slightly worse B, or a significantly worse C, of course he wants A. 
Ashton will attempt to sign A, but might end up with B or C. 
There may well be a better player D available out there somewhere, but that option would never have been put to LJ as the recruitment dept didn’t think he was good enough. 

So yes, of course the manager has a say, but he’s not responsible for the shortlist he’s presented with. 
 

Hence my continued messages on here that people need to hold Ashton responsible for the quality of the squad and not LJ. 
 

 

What if LJ doesn’t like A, B, or C?  That’s not me being facetious either.  Is there a point where LJ accepts that the type of player he wants isn’t out there within budget etc.  Does he accept going without, or does he accept sub-standard?

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2 hours ago, Roger Red Hat said:

If I remember correctly, we were very fortunate with injuries that season.

Two ways of looking at that. When the team is playing well, the players are enjoying their football and feeling wanted/confident, it often means players will keep smaller injuries to themselves.

When a team is struggling and players ‘aren't’ enjoying playing, these niggling little injuries all of a sudden become far worse!!. 

Every player in Cotterill’s squad that season would have wanted to play every week, simply because it would have been so enjoyable to play.

Yes, serious injuries would have kept players out, and perhaps we were lucky in that respect, but don’t rule out the fact that players can find excuses when they aren’t enjoying playing. 

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14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

What if LJ doesn’t like A, B, or C?  That’s not me being facetious either.  Is there a point where LJ accepts that the type of player he wants isn’t out there within budget etc.  Does he accept going without, or does he accept sub-standard?

It would certainly be true that LJ could ‘veto’ a signing if he really felt like he ought to. But who’s gonna realistically do that when your recruitment team have scoured their network and given you the best they’ve got already. 
If you need that left back then you may have to settle for player C, even though you know he’s not as good as the one that was sold last week. 

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People suggesting a first team squad of 20 seem to be forgetting how many injuries we have had in the past few seasons.  I would suggest you have to have, as they do for international tournaments, two players per position plus a third keeper as an absolute minimum.  For me, a squad of something like 25 would be right.

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1 hour ago, GasDestroyer said:

Agreed.

The fact that “buy cheap, sell high” is the obvious objective at the club just won’t work in my book.

1. You need leaders in the team (we have none).

2. You need out and out goal scorers (we have none).

3. You need confidence in players to express themselves (we have none).

Infact all the tInkering and throwing the players under the bus has brought about this mess. He has lost his team. Only a matter of time before the bafoon goes. Listen to the 9 minute post match presser on the clubs twitter feed for more more bullshit from him.

All spot on and LJ solution is; give the players time off to recover from their efforts so he can put his efforts into..... buy/loan some more players that he can trash with his waffle and grass length reports.

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3 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

So a manageable 25-27 first team squad.

Not sure if it's right but I've read elsewhere ours is now 37?

One poster in one thread said 37, and now it's a fact?

Have a look at the website:

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/teams/first-team-squad/

29 in that list including Afobe who is out for the season, Gilmartin who was signed to coach really, Bakinson who is on loan and Rodri who is likely to leave this month.

 

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9 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

People suggesting a first team squad of 20 seem to be forgetting how many injuries we have had in the past few seasons.  I would suggest you have to have, as they do for international tournaments, two players per position plus a third keeper as an absolute minimum.  For me, a squad of something like 25 would be right.

That’s what we are saying, the 25 would include Max, Joe M, Antoine etc.

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4 minutes ago, Nibor said:

One poster in one thread said 37, and now it's a fact?

Have a look at the website:

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/teams/first-team-squad/

29 in that list including Afobe who is out for the season, Gilmartin who was signed to coach really, Bakinson who is on loan and Rodri who is likely to leave this month.

 

29 pros. pictured on the official site, 14 more out on loan.

 

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16 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

14 more out on loan

That 14 bolstered by the fact we don't really have a 23's squad, its not like the total squad number would be lower if they were with us

Edited by hodge

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18 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

29 pros. pictured on the official site, 14 more out on loan.

Your post to which I responded said first team squad.  Those 14 players - bar Taylor who has basically left and Patterson who is back - would not be in the first team squad if they weren't on loan, and using that as evidence of a large squad is very misleading.

The truth is we have a couple more players in the first team squad than we'd probably like to have.

 

 

 

Edited by Nibor

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1 hour ago, Harry said:

That’s how it works in so far as what’s in the public domain. Lots of half truths are of course always part of a clubs communication strategy to its fans. 
The actual truth is not quite that. 

LJ does have some say, of course he does. But it’s quite minor when compared to other managers who work under different systems. 
Ours is very much the traditional Director of Football role which many in English football don’t ever understand and won’t ever accept. 


LJ says “I’m looking for a left back, one who is quick, able to deliver a quality cross”. 
Ashton and his team scour their network and provide a shortlist. 
LJ of course has a say in whom from that shortlist he’d accept, but if it’s a choice of A, a slightly worse B, or a significantly worse C, of course he wants A. 
Ashton will attempt to sign A, but might end up with B or C. 
There may well be a better player D available out there somewhere, but that option would never have been put to LJ as the recruitment dept didn’t think he was good enough. 

So yes, of course the manager has a say, but he’s not responsible for the shortlist he’s presented with. 
 

Hence my continued messages on here that people need to hold Ashton responsible for the quality of the squad and not LJ. 
 

 

Maybe I'm not understanding, but it still sounds like it's down to Lee ultimately, so why do you say hold Ashton responsible?

You say Lee's not responsible for the shortlist but if he chooses what he wants, characteristics, position, can suggest players himself, and makes the ultimate decision... Then it sounds like he is to me. If he keeps saying a 5ft 5 midfielder who can't pass more than 10 yards that's not Ashton's fault ;)

If your argument is there may be a better 'D' out there we mistakenly passed on, well that goes for everyone. Managers have scouts who present shortlists and names too don't they so they don't have to do the whole lot themselves?

How do you know this out of interest?

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1 minute ago, hodge said:

That 14 bolstered by the fact we don't really have a 23's squad, its not like the number would be lower if they were with us

It's a huge squad of pros. hence LJ is now in a position where has to get shot of several excess players on loan sharpish - Szomodics, Adelakun, Bakinson, Semenyo.

The point is it - whatever the exact number - the squad should never build up to this unwieldy size, and it seems contrary to SL's previously stated preference.

Even the best man manager would struggle to keep a contented training ground/dressing room under these circumstances.

 

15 minutes ago, Nibor said:

Your post to which I responded said first team squad.  Those 14 players - bar Taylor who has basically left and Patterson who is back - would not be in the first team squad if they weren't on loan, and using that as evidence of a large squad is very misleading.

The truth is we have a couple more players in the first team squad than we'd probably like to have.

The total has moved up to 43 - agree it's debatable as to where to draw the line at 'first team squad' but they're all being paid a professional wage, that's for sure

I wasn't stating a squad number, I said I'd read on here it was 37 with a question mark, in fact it could be said to be more, or less, depending on how you categorise players, but it's still huge number of players either way.

You may think we have 'a couple' surplus, I see it as more than that, and LJ must do too if the list of names he gave out he wants to find loan moves for is anything to go by.

Then, of course, we have more new signings to look forward to and integrate on and off the pitch, and apparently 1 or 2 more loans returning.

 It's an almighty, unwieldy, disorganised mess imo.

 

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1 hour ago, Harry said:

That’s how it works in so far as what’s in the public domain. Lots of half truths are of course always part of a clubs communication strategy to its fans. 
The actual truth is not quite that. 

LJ does have some say, of course he does. But it’s quite minor when compared to other managers who work under different systems. 
Ours is very much the traditional Director of Football role which many in English football don’t ever understand and won’t ever accept. 


LJ says “I’m looking for a left back, one who is quick, able to deliver a quality cross”. 
Ashton and his team scour their network and provide a shortlist. 
LJ of course has a say in whom from that shortlist he’d accept, but if it’s a choice of A, a slightly worse B, or a significantly worse C, of course he wants A. 
Ashton will attempt to sign A, but might end up with B or C. 
There may well be a better player D available out there somewhere, but that option would never have been put to LJ as the recruitment dept didn’t think he was good enough. 


So yes, of course the manager has a say, but he’s not responsible for the shortlist he’s presented with. 
 

Hence my continued messages on here that people need to hold Ashton responsible for the quality of the squad and not LJ. 
 

OK, so in your opinion the list isn't good enough quality in the first place due to more suitable/better players being overlooked?

So the scouts and analysts are not up to the job, and MA also at fault because between them they reject players, before LJ gets his choice, who should have been on the list. 

Surely every player on the list must be thought to be either a good Championship standard, or, if a younger player, the potential to become such, and LJ must agree that if they end up at AG.

Easy to criticise MA, but surely he more than earns his corn on transfer fees he negotiates on sales. Is it his fault if he can only get player C?

Are you saying MA and associates (including scouts) compile a sub standard list (therefore the scouting system is not up to scratch) or do you see there being some other problem in the set up?

Is it feasible that MA has ever gone ahead and signed a player that LJ had said he had reservations about? Hard to believe SL would allow that and sign it off.

Sorry Harry, but you seem to want to lay responsibility at everyone's door but LJ's even though he can veto any signing he wants to.

Edited by Nogbad the Bad
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1 hour ago, Harry said:

It would certainly be true that LJ could ‘veto’ a signing if he really felt like he ought to. But who’s gonna realistically do that when your recruitment team have scoured their network and given you the best they’ve got already. 
If you need that left back then you may have to settle for player C, even though you know he’s not as good as the one that was sold last week. 

Who is the recruitment team? Genuine question. I believe we are shit off the pitch and the owner needs to address this. 

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7 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Maybe I'm not understanding, but it still sounds like it's down to Lee ultimately, so why do you say hold Ashton responsible?

You say Lee's not responsible for the shortlist but if he chooses what he wants, characteristics, position, can suggest players himself, and makes the ultimate decision... Then it sounds like he is to me. If he keeps saying a 5ft 5 midfielder who can't pass more than 10 yards that's not Ashton's fault ;)

If your argument is there may be a better 'D' out there we mistakenly passed on, well that goes for everyone. Managers have scouts who present shortlists and names too don't they so they don't have to do the whole lot themselves?

How do you know this out of interest?

If you ask me for a new car, one that can do 0-60 in 8 seconds, I may present you with an Audi, a Nissan and a Citroen. You might say, yeah the Audi is the best option there. 
I’ll see if I can get you the Audi, but you might not be able to afford the running costs so I’ll let you know that the Nissan is your best available. 
So you get the Nissan and have to make do. 
Your mate then bought a Merc and tells you he paid half as much for it. 
 

Who’s responsible for you driving a Nissan whilst your mate drives a Merc? Is it you, or is it me? 

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12 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

OK, so in your opinion the list isn't good enough quality in the first place due to more suitable/better players being overlooked?

So the scouts and analysts are not up to the job, and MA also at fault because between them they reject players, before LJ gets his choice, who should have been on the list. 

Surely every player on the list must be thought to be either a good Championship standard, or, if a younger player, the potential to become such, and LJ must agree that if they end up at AG.

Easy to criticise MA, but surely he more than earns his corn on transfer fees he negotiates on sales. Is it his fault if he can only get player C?

Are you saying MA and associates (including scouts) compile a sub standard list (therefore the scouting system is not up to scratch) or do you see there being some other problem in the set up?

Is it feasible that MA has ever gone ahead and signed a player that LJ had said he had reservations about? Hard to believe SL would allow that and sign it off.

Sorry Harry, but you seem to want to lay the blame at everyone's door but LJ's even though he can veto any signing he wants to.

See my post #67, and then consider that I only offered you those cars from a select list of dealerships. 

Edited by Harry
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20 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

It's a huge squad of pros. hence LJ is now in a position where has to get shot of several excess players on loan sharpish - Szomodics, Adelakun, Bakinson, Semenyo.

The point is it - whatever the exact number - the squad should never build up to this unwieldy size, and it seems contrary to SL's previously stated preference.

Even the best man manager would struggle to keep a contented training ground/dressing room under these circumstances.

 

The total has moved up to 43 - agree it's debatable as to where to draw the line at 'first team squad' but they're all being paid a professional wage, that's for sure

I wasn't stating a squad number, I said I'd read on here it was 37 with a question mark, in fact it could be said to be more, or less, depending on how you categorise players, but it's still huge number of players either way.

You may think we have 'a couple' surplus, I see it as more than that, and LJ must do too if the list of names he gave out he wants to find loan moves for is anything to go by.

Then, of course, we have more new signings to look forward to and integrate on and off the pitch, and apparently 1 or 2 more loans returning.

 It's an almighty, unwieldy, disorganised mess imo.

 

And.....Even when we had all those injuries, we never put out a weak subs bench did we?  Never had to call up Bakinson or Adelakun. Let alone a Soady or Pearson.

0BC62951-0A21-4FCD-9971-B0597C486B8F.thumb.jpeg.5d6be606730ae6d93b166f3587ccb652.jpeg

6 minutes ago, Harry said:

See my post #67, and then consider that I only offered you those cars from a select list of dealerships. 

Don’t you stop using that Autotrader?  In this case, go and tell SL that MA isn’t using all the dealers available?

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4 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

The absolute opposite of Cotterill storming to the title with 11 clear starters and 7 clear subs no-one in the stands

Makes such a difference and clear tactics.

When I play football manager it’s 4-4-2 with the same starting 11 and 7 subs

 

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14 minutes ago, Harry said:

If you ask me for a new car, one that can do 0-60 in 8 seconds, I may present you with an Audi, a Nissan and a Citroen. You might say, yeah the Audi is the best option there. 
I’ll see if I can get you the Audi, but you might not be able to afford the running costs so I’ll let you know that the Nissan is your best available. 
So you get the Nissan and have to make do. 
Your mate then bought a Merc and tells you he paid half as much for it. 
 

Who’s responsible for you driving a Nissan whilst your mate drives a Merc? Is it you, or is it me? 

Ok, I understand better your point but struggle to agree LJ is not integral to the process. Is there any top club in the country where the set up of the scouting network falls to the head coach ? If LJ can reject a player, and one assumes he is given all the data (LJ himself says he spent 75 % of his time in the summer working on transfers ) I am struggling though to agree that LJ is not part of the system on recruitment. You are suggesting that LJ just has to make do with whoever he is given to choose from, well that is true of any scouting network at any club, those are the tools a. club use.  On top of that, your concept of player A and B is also weak, as MA said they now hit 90% of their top targets in each transfer window. Of course we can say the scouting and analysis needs improvement, and that is what the club have been trying to do. But how can the recruitment team work when the head coach changes tactics 5 times in a half season, and has not developed any semblance of playing identity. If you have no idea of what you want, then you are going to get a mixed bag on recruitment. It should be an integrated process, matching the footballing identity/strategy with recruitment. 

I at first thought you were suggesting LJ had no say in recruitment, that was a scandal. But that it seems is not the case. If LJ is not raising concerns when a player is about to be signed , over his head, then it asks more questions about him rather than MA. It is more the scouting network is not providing the quality of players from their analysis and research. Every club needs to improve recruitment, it is the key cornerstone of any club. But to suggest it is all MA fault is really not correct. It is the collective of LJ and MA that is inadequate and underperforming. These last days some on here suggested that Palmer was a MA signing. That is quite sensational, when LJ said he wanted, in May, to sign all 3 ex Chelsea players, had Palmer on loan, so knew what he was asking for and getting.

LJ is as equally culpable with MA for recruitment, it cannot be a selective choice based the finger pointing,  they are in it together, and equally inadequate for the progress of the club. 

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41 minutes ago, Harry said:

If you ask me for a new car, one that can do 0-60 in 8 seconds, I may present you with an Audi, a Nissan and a Citroen. You might say, yeah the Audi is the best option there. 
I’ll see if I can get you the Audi, but you might not be able to afford the running costs so I’ll let you know that the Nissan is your best available. 
So you get the Nissan and have to make do. 
Your mate then bought a Merc and tells you he paid half as much for it. 
 

Who’s responsible for you driving a Nissan whilst your mate drives a Merc? Is it you, or is it me? 

Decent analogy... But a better driver could still probably outrun my mate in his Merc... Provided the car he was given ticked all the boxes he'd asked for even if it was a Nissan.

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LJ is nowhere near as culpable as MA when it comes to recruitment. Do you seriously think LJ had any prior knowledge whatsoever and thus any input into the signings of Engvall, Magnússon, Pisano, Pereira, Nagy, HNM, Eliasson, Famara etc etc. Of course not. 
In agreeing to abide by the process he is of course part of the problem, but the buck stops at MA. 
In regard to your comment that MA said we hit 90% of our top targets, my response to that is either a) he’s clearly not aiming high enough with his targets or b) it’s spin. 
I’d plump for b). 

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51 minutes ago, Harry said:

If you ask me for a new car, one that can do 0-60 in 8 seconds, I may present you with an Audi, a Nissan and a Citroen. You might say, yeah the Audi is the best option there. 
I’ll see if I can get you the Audi, but you might not be able to afford the running costs so I’ll let you know that the Nissan is your best available. 
So you get the Nissan and have to make do. 
Your mate then bought a Merc and tells you he paid half as much for it. 
 

Who’s responsible for you driving a Nissan whilst your mate drives a Merc? Is it you, or is it me? 

It might only be an A-class

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2 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

People suggesting a first team squad of 20 seem to be forgetting how many injuries we have had in the past few seasons.  I would suggest you have to have, as they do for international tournaments, two players per position plus a third keeper as an absolute minimum.  For me, a squad of something like 25 would be right.

Does anyone wonder why we have had so many long term injuries in the last four years. It might just be bad luck but it seems that every season we get 2, 3 or 4 with six month injuries. I can never remember this happening so much in the past with any manager or group of players. 

They cannot be faked injuries to miss a game or two. So why are we getting so many serious injuries? Any thoughts?

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22 minutes ago, Harry said:

LJ is nowhere near as culpable as MA when it comes to recruitment. Do you seriously think LJ had any prior knowledge whatsoever and thus any input into the signings of Engvall, Magnússon, Pisano, Pereira, Nagy, HNM, Eliasson, Famara etc etc. Of course not. 
In agreeing to abide by the process he is of course part of the problem, but the buck stops at MA. 
In regard to your comment that MA said we hit 90% of our top targets, my response to that is either a) he’s clearly not aiming high enough with his targets or b) it’s spin. 
I’d plump for b). 

I am confused. So you are now saying these players were actually signed with zero input from LJ ? They just arrived ? I am sorry but yes I did seriously think he had prior knowledge, and it is a shock to hear that he did not. Wow, they just arrived at the training ground. Now that is an article the EP should investigate and write about. This is a major point , that MA signs players with LJ not having any prior knowledge, just he and SL agree the financial numbers  and the players arrive and LJ has to try and fit them in. 

I would still change the pair of them 

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1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

The total has moved up to 43 - agree it's debatable as to where to draw the line at 'first team squad' but they're all being paid a professional wage, that's for sure

I wasn't stating a squad number, I said I'd read on here it was 37 with a question mark, in fact it could be said to be more, or less, depending on how you categorise players, but it's still huge number of players either way.

You may think we have 'a couple' surplus, I see it as more than that, and LJ must do too if the list of names he gave out he wants to find loan moves for is anything to go by.

Then, of course, we have more new signings to look forward to and integrate on and off the pitch, and apparently 1 or 2 more loans returning.

 It's an almighty, unwieldy, disorganised mess imo.

 

Absolute nonsense.  Most of your "14" are paid a junior wage not a first team pro wage.

Your post said:

Quote

So a manageable 25-27 first team squad.

Not sure if it's right but I've read elsewhere ours is now 37?

It isn't 37 is it?  We've now proved that.

The reality is we have a first team squad of 27 give or take a couple, having been quite unlucky with injuries in the first half of the season leading us to add Rodri and Williams.

You are massively overstating the squad size purely because you think it supports a view you've already decided to hold.

 

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22 minutes ago, Psychopomp said:

I am confused. So you are now saying these players were actually signed with zero input from LJ ? They just arrived ? I am sorry but yes I did seriously think he had prior knowledge, and it is a shock to hear that he did not. Wow, they just arrived at the training ground. Now that is an article the EP should investigate and write about. This is a major point , that MA signs players with LJ not having any prior knowledge, just he and SL agree the financial numbers  and the players arrive and LJ has to try and fit them in. 

I would still change the pair of them 

When I say “prior knowledge” I don’t refer to ‘as they walk through the door’. I mean he’d have had zero input / knowledge into these players prior to them being targeted. Thus - they are not LJ’s desired targets. 

Edited by Harry

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9 minutes ago, Harry said:

When I say “prior knowledge” I don’t refer to ‘as they walk through the door’. I mean he’d have had zero input / knowledge into these players prior to them being targeted. Thus - they are not LJ’s desired targets. 

Why isn’t he adding his own players into the pot?  And if he is, why aren’t any coming out the end of the funnel?  I’m getting more and more confused by this.

Take Pisano, or was it Djúric.  Didn’t LJ go to Italy several times to watch whichever one it was?

Its almost as if LJ has a major blindspot for non-English based players.

Edited by Davefevs

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1 hour ago, Harry said:

LJ is nowhere near as culpable as MA when it comes to recruitment. Do you seriously think LJ had any prior knowledge whatsoever and thus any input into the signings of Engvall, Magnússon, Pisano, Pereira, Nagy, HNM, Eliasson, Famara etc etc. Of course not. 
In agreeing to abide by the process he is of course part of the problem, but the buck stops at MA. 
In regard to your comment that MA said we hit 90% of our top targets, my response to that is either a) he’s clearly not aiming high enough with his targets or b) it’s spin. 
I’d plump for b). 

Are you suggesting they aren't good enough- are you suggesting that foreign players or more likely, p[layers from Foreign teams as Weimann, Maenpaa domestic based yet foreign, (as that's all you have listed here) are signed over his head?

You have to fish in wider ponds than just UK...a variety. Do Brentford, Fulham, Leeds have problems integrating foreign players? Does LJ have too narrow a focus- or MA too broad a focus? 

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2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Are you suggesting they aren't good enough- are you suggesting that foreign players or more likely, p[layers from Foreign teams as Weimann, Maenpaa domestic based yet foreign, (as that's all you have listed here) are signed over his head?

You have to fish in wider ponds than just UK...a variety. Do Brentford, Fulham, Leeds have problems integrating foreign players? Does LJ have too narrow a focus- or MA too broad a focus? 

Haha, posted very similar things.

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Haha, posted very similar things.

We did!

In genera, find some of Harry's points curious pretty debatable.

24 year old- in Nagy's case, cannot be improved and at his ceiling. Unsure on that...jury's out for me. Just one example.

Kalas not a top 6 defender, or not listed as one? Two promotions and two play off campaigns on his previous 2 clubs says quite the opposite I'd have thought?

Weimann PL, only 28- in theory peak years, will be but at that age not yet coming down the other side- mixed Championship record but doing very nicely for us.

Eliasson...10 assists? Not top 6 pushing standard- should be some room for growth too given his age, Brownhill already equalled his top goal return in a season, same age, yet there are players with significant room for growth too granted...like Moore, DaSilva, Palmer to name a few!

it's not so much that he didn't state them as such, more the only one that he stated was Bentley- I wonder about that.

I do wonder about LJ with a) Foreign b) Players from a certain level and c) Some mix of the 2.

Not just foreign though- O'Neil started off rather well here didn't he...and regressed.

A reasonable number of LJ signings seem to have done.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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13 hours ago, Matty_Taylor_is_god said:

Do you really think in this day you could win the championship title with a small squad like that?

Pep seems to do ok with these numbers in the Premier League. (and before I get shouted down he prefers to use a core of 18 players).

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13 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

Fortune favours the brave. You make your own luck. Pick your phrase.

Except that fortune doesn’t favour the brave or else LJ would be a Premier League manager with a domestic trophy or two to show for it .

LJ started out his career as coach here with mind blowing attacking formations and substitutions full of derring do however these mostly backfired as we didn’t have the quality to execute the plan . It was Roy of the Rovers stuff without the happy ending.

We started to look a bit decent when we went to one up top but the fans complained of boring football.

So that’s where we are , as the French say , with your arse between two stools.

 

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15 hours ago, downendcity said:

While there are underlying issues at the moment, I do think that many fans fail to give any leeway ( pardon the pun) for the massive impact injuries have had this season. It's not just the number of injuries, but the impact on the way I think LJ was panning for us to play -  mobile front man, Palmer in behind and Nagy sitting in front of the back 4, in which Kalas and Moore were starting to look a good partnership.

 

But our worst period has been with the least injuries. 

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8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Are you suggesting they aren't good enough- are you suggesting that foreign players or more likely, p[layers from Foreign teams as Weimann, Maenpaa domestic based yet foreign, (as that's all you have listed here) are signed over his head?

You have to fish in wider ponds than just UK...a variety. Do Brentford, Fulham, Leeds have problems integrating foreign players? Does LJ have too narrow a focus- or MA too broad a focus? 

I’m not at all suggesting that we shouldn’t fish in foreign waters. But yes, I’m definitely suggesting that many of our foreign imports are not good enough. 
You mention Brentford. Tell me how they get a Benrahma, a player who arrives with touch, skill, technique etc and we get a Diedhiou, who arrived for 3 times as much and needs to be coached how to control a ball, how to make correct forward runs etc. 
 

Nothing wrong with foreign imports.

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15 hours ago, Davefevs said:

If so, at some point as head-coach you have gave to say “it’s me or him”, or you keep those players you don’t want out of the picture to prove the point.  Childish? Yep, but it’s gotta come to a head at some point.  If LJ is being undermined by MA, grow some and “out him”.  Self preservation.

I believe Kalas is playing through injury.

Johnson specifically said he had final say on all transfers so either that wasn’t true or it’s gone out the window. 
 

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9 hours ago, Nibor said:

Absolute nonsense.  Most of your "14" are paid a junior wage not a first team pro wage.

Your post said:

It isn't 37 is it?  We've now proved that.

The reality is we have a first team squad of 27 give or take a couple, having been quite unlucky with injuries in the first half of the season leading us to add Rodri and Williams.

You are massively overstating the squad size purely because you think it supports a view you've already decided to hold.

 

However you calculate squad numbers when we sign random players like Adelakun and Szmodics on long contracts, never play them, apparently thinking, never mind, we can just go out get more players in, we're heading for trouble imo. both in terms of manageable numbers and overall squad wages.

We are told much planning goes on behind the scenes pinpointing new signings but the result all too often appears to be new signings stagnating and festering unhappily, leading to a bloated and discontented squad.

Never mind, we can eventually send them out on loan, and the transfer window is upon us again. Time to sign a few more!

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Harry said:

I’m not at all suggesting that we shouldn’t fish in foreign waters. But yes, I’m definitely suggesting that many of our foreign imports are not good enough. 
You mention Brentford. Tell me how they get a Benrahma, a player who arrives with touch, skill, technique etc and we get a Diedhiou, who arrived for 3 times as much and needs to be coached how to control a ball, how to make correct forward runs etc. 
 

Nothing wrong with foreign imports.

Absolutely bang on the money - how many of our foreign imports have actually been a success?

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I go back to my earlier point, if LJ isn’t happy with what he’s getting, he’s got to call out Ashton and his team.  Shit or bust time.

At the end of the day, it’s a results business, the results determine whether LJ stays in a job.  If recruitment is as bad as is made out then LJ needs to go over MA’s head, go to SL and say he wants recruitment to change.  For me MA is a v.good Football Administrator, and we need him to do what he does in that field, running the Football Operations.  But he isn’t a “football man”, in terms of skilled player spotter.  If Lee has a blind spot in non-UK players and the recruitment team cannot correctly evaluate the level of a overseas player to see whether they fit the Champ (Prem future) then you either have to bring in that skill set or narrow your recruitment field.

Wasn’t that Mervyn Day’s role?  What happened there.

Whatever is happening on recruitment, Nagy for example has proved in some games he is more than good enough, yet, just lately he’s been way off the mark.

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1 hour ago, CotswoldRed said:

But our worst period has been with the least injuries. 

In another post I commented that this is the baffling bit - that we seem to have dropped off a cliff just when most of our injured players are available.

Having said that, in a post yesterday someone commented that he thinks Kalas is playing through injury, It does seem that nether he nor Nagy seem the same since their injuries, so perhaps neither is fully fit  and certainly neither might be fully match fit. Also, defensively injuries have meant we've not been able to play any sort of settled back line, even switching from a back 4 to a back 3 dependant on availability, and even including Bailey Wright!

Dasilva, Kalas and Moore might be available again, but they've not played together and have also come back into a team struggling for form and confidence, 

LJ's selections can be baffling in themselves at times, although injuries have forced his hand, and Afobe's absence has had the biggest impact on the way we've not been able to play. I think a combination of LJ looking for the selection and formation that works best,  allied to the cumulative effect of so many injuries, has caught up with us over the last month or so, as even before the injured players' returns we were struggling for performance. 

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2 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

Pep seems to do ok with these numbers in the Premier League. (and before I get shouted down he prefers to use a core of 18 players).

...and his season has been pretty well b******d by injury to 1 defender (Laporte) despite having top class players as cover and in just about every other position and world class players in several positions. 

We've had our entire back line out ( Dasilva, Kalas, Moore & Hunt) for pretty well the majority of the season until recently.

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23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I go back to my earlier point, if LJ isn’t happy with what he’s getting, he’s got to call out Ashton and his team.  Shit or bust time.

At the end of the day, it’s a results business, the results determine whether LJ stays in a job.  If recruitment is as bad as is made out then LJ needs to go over MA’s head, go to SL and say he wants recruitment to change.  For me MA is a v.good Football Administrator, and we need him to do what he does in that field, running the Football Operations.  But he isn’t a “football man”, in terms of skilled player spotter.  If Lee has a blind spot in non-UK players and the recruitment team cannot correctly evaluate the level of a overseas player to see whether they fit the Champ (Prem future) then you either have to bring in that skill set or narrow your recruitment field.

Wasn’t that Mervyn Day’s role?  What happened there.

Whatever is happening on recruitment, Nagy for example has proved in some games he is more than good enough, yet, just lately he’s been way off the mark.

Hypothetical I know but, if LJ got sacked. 
Would MA seek out a manager that would challenge him recruitment wise , or another “up and coming “ manager that wouldn’t rock the boat 

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16 hours ago, Matty_Taylor_is_god said:

Do you really think in this day you could win the championship title with a small squad like that?

I don’t think wolves had a big squad when they won the league. 

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33 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I go back to my earlier point, if LJ isn’t happy with what he’s getting, he’s got to call out Ashton and his team.  Shit or bust time.

At the end of the day, it’s a results business, the results determine whether LJ stays in a job.  If recruitment is as bad as is made out then LJ needs to go over MA’s head, go to SL and say he wants recruitment to change.  For me MA is a v.good Football Administrator, and we need him to do what he does in that field, running the Football Operations.  But he isn’t a “football man”, in terms of skilled player spotter.  If Lee has a blind spot in non-UK players and the recruitment team cannot correctly evaluate the level of a overseas player to see whether they fit the Champ (Prem future) then you either have to bring in that skill set or narrow your recruitment field.

Wasn’t that Mervyn Day’s role?  What happened there.

Whatever is happening on recruitment, Nagy for example has proved in some games he is more than good enough, yet, just lately he’s been way off the mark.

I totally agree - man up and call Ashton out because as it stands your losing the fans as LJ is being blamed for our lack of quality. I know what i would be doing. 
 

ive never understood either why SL has not come out and clearly clarified this point as it’s important.

If LJ is only here to improve players value them he’s done a good job so far. 
There will come a time in any industry that if your best workers keep leaving you will eventually be unable to replace them

 

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17 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Hypothetical I know but, if LJ got sacked. 
Would MA seek out a manager that would challenge him recruitment wise , or another “up and coming “ manager that wouldn’t rock the boat 

He would replace him with MA - Michael Appleton.....he’s who MA wanted at the time LJ was appointed!

7 minutes ago, Rob k said:

I totally agree - man up and call Ashton out because as it stands your losing the fans as LJ is being blamed for our lack of quality. I know what i would be doing. 
 

ive never understood either why SL has not come out and clearly clarified this point as it’s important.

If LJ is only here to improve players value them he’s done a good job so far. 
There will come a time in any industry that if your best workers keep leaving you will eventually be unable to replace them

 

Which is what happened to Southampton before Adkins got them back, and funnily enough they are following a similar trend again.

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59 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I go back to my earlier point, if LJ isn’t happy with what he’s getting, he’s got to call out Ashton and his team.  Shit or bust time.

At the end of the day, it’s a results business, the results determine whether LJ stays in a job.  If recruitment is as bad as is made out then LJ needs to go over MA’s head, go to SL and say he wants recruitment to change.  For me MA is a v.good Football Administrator, and we need him to do what he does in that field, running the Football Operations.  But he isn’t a “football man”, in terms of skilled player spotter.  If Lee has a blind spot in non-UK players and the recruitment team cannot correctly evaluate the level of a overseas player to see whether they fit the Champ (Prem future) then you either have to bring in that skill set or narrow your recruitment field.

Wasn’t that Mervyn Day’s role?  What happened there.

Whatever is happening on recruitment, Nagy for example has proved in some games he is more than good enough, yet, just lately he’s been way off the mark.

LJ has called out the system on a few occasions. 
I recall sometime prior to the 18 season he said something along the lines of “we need to get better with the foreign experiment”. 
I can’t find the article but it was along those lines. 
 

I have found an article from May 18 where he calls it out. 
He says “there are difficulties with the system. Every player we’ve brought in hasn’t really been proven in the championship. And that comes down to a number of things that we don’t need to talk about now but everybody now knows”. 
 

So he has definitely remarked on the system before and how he felt it was going wrong.

But he’s a professional enough person not to come out and shout discontent everywhere.  

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4 minutes ago, Harry said:

LJ has called out the system on a few occasions. 
I recall sometime prior to the 18 season he said something along the lines of “we need to get better with the foreign experiment”. 
I can’t find the article but it was along those lines. 
 

I have found an article from May 18 where he calls it out. 
He says “there are difficulties with the system. Every player we’ve brought in hasn’t really been proven in the championship. And that comes down to a number of things that we don’t need to talk about now but everybody now knows”. 
 

So he has definitely remarked on the system before and how he felt it was going wrong.

But he’s a professional enough person not to come out and shout discontent everywhere.  

**** that when it’s going to cost me a highly paid job i love 

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5 minutes ago, Harry said:

LJ has called out the system on a few occasions. 
I recall sometime prior to the 18 season he said something along the lines of “we need to get better with the foreign experiment”. 
I can’t find the article but it was along those lines. 
 

I have found an article from May 18 where he calls it out. 
He says “there are difficulties with the system. Every player we’ve brought in hasn’t really been proven in the championship. And that comes down to a number of things that we don’t need to talk about now but everybody now knows”. 
 

So he has definitely remarked on the system before and how he felt it was going wrong.

Good, but that’s when we changed tack, went and got Hunt, Webster and Weimann in particular and to a lesser extent Watkins and Maenpaa.

That continued this summer with Bentley, Kalas, Dasilva, Rowe, Afobe, Williams and Palmer.  Szmodics a sensible outlier to that.  Why did we then go Nagy, Pereira, Massengo?  Personally I think all are capable at this level.  Rodri was a sensible outlier too due to Afobe injury.  I don’t believe many Champ managers would be moaning about recruitment this summer.  You see from this why I struggle to lay fault purely at recruitment / MA.

But he’s a professional enough person not to come out and shout discontent everywhere.

I don’t want him shouting discontent everywhere, just SL’s ear is enough!

 

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