Bristol City V Barnsley

[The dastardly red]

4 hours ago, City oz said:

I will probably get hammered on here by some but some may support this option. 18th of January city at home to Barnsley on a Saturday at 3.00pm.

The negativity on OTIB and from most City supporters either locally, country wide or over sees are disappointed in how this season is panning out. Most point the blame to lee and some even the players.

the last two months performances for whatever reason are quite honestly below expectations for the supporters and the players. 

Every football follower i talk to in OZ always say to me “which team do you go for” most expect my response to be Liverpool or Man U etc. last year 2019 I proudly said BRISTOL CITY, most turn around and say yes I have heard of them and they say Prem football next season. However since the end of November 2019 I only whisper BRISTOL CITY when asked.

on the 18th of this month if 10,000.00 out of the usual 20,000.00  supporters only attend at an average of 20 quid a ticket (I’m aware there are season ticket holders that have already paid) refuse to attend that is a negative of around 200K. If more decide not to attend on the day and say only 5,000 turn up the loss could be be the turning point on why SL needs to bring in a new manager.

SL is an astute business person and although there is no doubt in his passion for the club but loosing money may wake him up to the continual negativity from the majority of supporters. It may even trigger a public announcement from him on his aspirations going forward.

I always wear my “cider army” tee shirt at home when City are playing for good luck. Probably have to let the dog have it now in his dog bed.

Heaven forbid... even the players?

Calling for a boycott?

You whisper when asked who you support?

You're going to give your cider army tee shirt to the dog so he can have it in his dog bed?

I think you may have a few roos loose in the top paddock.

 

[CliftonCliff]

45 minutes ago, Chappers said:

How many more times, we DO NOT have our most talented squad ever

Nor is the league “bang average”, as the poster to whom you were responding also claimed. Try telling that to the managers of the other 23 clubs in the Championship. It’s brutally tough. 

[bcfc01]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

But the objective was improvement, and both SL and LJ said that didn’t mean 8th to 7th!  The objective was play-offs.

The reality might be we don’t make playoffs.  What SL then needs to decide is whether that was under-performance and what scale of under-performance.  Other factors will determine that too.

Its all very well SL and LJ being positive and saying these things but they should be a bit more circumspect in saying them - there are thousands of people who'll take everything they say literally and expect some sort of explanation on why whatever was said didn't materialise. I think both need to tone down the rhetoric as it just leads to undue expectation from the fans and pressure for the staff. I'd expect the pair of them to have understood that managing expectations is vital in this industry.

[Norn Iron]

The worst game I ever endured was away to Wrexham on a cold, Tuesday night. Our manager was Tony Pulis. We were inept and clueless, and those adjectives were to describe our positives! 

Yes, I have watched the last 4 league matches in full on Sky. Were we as bad as our Tony Pulis team in North Wales? No.

Whisper all you like about being a City fan. I can't and won't especially as I've witnessed far worse from players and of course managers.

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Its all very well SL and LJ being positive and saying these things but they should be a bit more circumspect in saying them - there are thousands of people who'll take everything they say literally and expect some sort of explanation on why whatever was said didn't materialise. I think both need to tone down the rhetoric as it just leads to undue expectation from the fans and pressure for the staff. I'd expect the pair of them to have understood that managing expectations is vital in this industry.

Very, very true.  Not helped when both also go on to say that this is the season (without the big hitters of previous seasons - Villa, Newcastle) is the season to go for it.

Personally I think our squad is good enough for top 6....it was 6 games ago!!  Time to prove it.

[bcfcredandwhite]

I’ve been a supporter since 1970s and I’ve seen some highs but far more lows in my 40+ years as a fan. 

A few poor performances and bad results and we seem to go into meltdown - I get the disappointment about recent performances/results but come on; we are 1 set of results away from the playoffs. If we were fighting relegation then maybe, but we are, despite recent results, still battling at the top end of the division - which we are in for the 4th consecutive season. It’s a long time since that’s happened. 

Don’t misunderstand me; Lee must be held to account for recent form, but SACKED? Really? Pointing to Bournemouth as an example of where we should be; they gambled big time and won the jackpot - well done to them, but they would have been destroyed by  FFP if they hadn’t escaped into the Prem.

LJ isn’t above criticism, that’s not what I’m saying, but to change the manager now imho would be the wrong thing to do  

 

[CliftonCliff]

17 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Its all very well SL and LJ being positive and saying these things but they should be a bit more circumspect in saying them - there are thousands of people who'll take everything they say literally and expect some sort of explanation on why whatever was said didn't materialise. I think both need to tone down the rhetoric as it just leads to undue expectation from the fans and pressure for the staff. I'd expect the pair of them to have understood that managing expectations is vital in this industry.

Not saying you don’t have a valid point, but nevertheless that’s a bit harsh. What should we expect them to say? All they are really saying is that the club is ambitious, which it is - look at the off-field progress, such as the stadium, training facilities and so on, as well as on-field results. And to be fair, their comments have often been tempered with reminders of the owner’s insistence on financial sustainability, and all that it implies. Viewed in that light, I’d have said the club’s stance in relation to expectations has been reasonably balanced. It’s in the rants of a small section of the OTIB membership that you find a lack of balance, not least the bloke who started this thread with the idea that the present situation justifies a mass boycott. Priceless.

[spudski]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

But the objective was improvement, and both SL and LJ said that didn’t mean 8th to 7th!  The objective was play-offs.

The reality might be we don’t make playoffs.  What SL then needs to decide is whether that was under-performance and what scale of under-performance.  Other factors will determine that too.

True mate....on paper. But take into consideration to the injuries we've had again this season to arguably our best three players, Kalas, DaSilva, Afobe...Then experience in midfield of Smith. Also Nagy. That's going to take it's toll.

We have been putting in performances that reflect that. Use of a rotating constant injury filled squad, that's often overplayed in certain positions and has lacked experience in certain areas.

I think what's happening now is a reflection of that.

Tired over used inexperienced players, being replaced by players that have had long term injuries and getting back up to speed. 

And a very poor frontline.

Everything adds up imo.

[Major Isewater]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

The majority of fans don't want LJ gone. The ones who do, generally don't attend games. And they are generally the most vocal on forums and social media.

Anyone who attends regularly and follows the intricacies of what's happening at our club, and others in the division, are able to see it for what it is.

We are a mid table team...anything more is a bonus. We've over achieved past couple seasons imo.

This overachievement has set expectations way too high imo.

The point being that we were sold  very forcefully the idea that we were going to go for it after nearish misses in the last couple of seasons.

We , the supporters, didn’t insist on getting promotion or a top six place but the club stated that that was the objective.

It is normal that having touched greatness that now questions are being asked as to why , once again, we appear to be falling away alarmingly.

Who’s responsible ?

It’s not the supporters.

 

[J D]

Bolton boycott when their owner nearly makes them bust

Hull boycott when their owner stops caring about the club 

Blackpool boycott when their owner sends them from the Premier League to League 1 

We boycott when we're 3 points off the play-offs?

It's a no from me mate.

[bcfc01]

2 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said:

Not saying you don’t have a valid point, but nevertheless that’s a bit harsh. What should we expect them to say? All they are really saying is that the club is ambitious, which it is - look at the off-field progress, such as the stadium, training facilities and so on, as well as on-field results. And to be fair, their comments have often been tempered with reminders of the owner’s insistence on financial sustainability, and all that it implies. Viewed in that light, I’d have said the club’s stance in relation to expectations has been reasonably balanced.

Maybe, and its a fair point. 

But it doesn't change the fact that what is said will be taken literally by thousands of people - they won't bother about sustainability or the other 23 teams trying to achieve the same objectives, or dips in form, etc. They'll demand to know why whatever was said didn't happen, it just creates a false sense of entitlement in thousands of people who take their words literally.

I just think they could have worded their optimism and ambition better.

 

[spudski]

2 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

The point being that we were sold  very forcefully the idea that we were going to go for it after nearish misses in the last couple of seasons.

We , the supporters, didn’t insist on getting promotion or a top six place but the club stated that that was the objective.

It is normal that having touched greatness that now questions are being asked as to why , once again, we appear to be falling away alarmingly.

Who’s responsible ?

It’s not the supporters.

 

So we make top 6 then lose in the play offs... A Scenario that is odds on more likely to happen.

You can guarantee many will still say we failed miserably.

Top 6 means nothing. I wish fans wouldn't keep hanging their hat in it.

It's a complete lottery.

Cmon Major... you're better than that.

We can go back to last season, to when we had a dip. The forum was just as vitriolic then. Then we ended up doing ok.

It really is so frustrating...

[Chappers]

27 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

But the objective was improvement, and both SL and LJ said that didn’t mean 8th to 7th!  The objective was play-offs.

The reality might be we don’t make playoffs.  What SL then needs to decide is whether that was under-performance and what scale of under-performance.  Other factors will determine that too.

Or maybe it was a case of selling our star defender, buying for the future and an injury limiting options up front. Sometimes you just have to accept that things haven’t gone to plan, and look ahead. Ultimately, even with a squad with few options up front and a lightweight midfield, we are still close to play offs, so you could argue that our coaches have performed well. 
It’s been dull at home, but our strength is at centre back, so play to that. Away it’s fine frustrating the opposition and sneaking a win.

[exAtyeoMax]

11 minutes ago, spudski said:

So we make top 6 then lose in the play offs... A Scenario that is odds on more likely to happen.

You can guarantee many will still say we failed miserably.

Top 6 means nothing. I wish fans wouldn't keep hanging their hat in it.

It's a complete lottery.

Cmon Major... you're better than that.

We can go back to last season, to when we had a dip. The forum was just as vitriolic then. Then we ended up doing ok.

It really is so frustrating...

There's a massive difference between top six, and seventh…

Top six you get an extra chance (a lottery yes, but a extra chance). Seventh - no extra chance.

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, Chappers said:

Or maybe it was a case of selling our star defender, buying for the future and an injury limiting options up front. Sometimes you just have to accept that things haven’t gone to plan, and look ahead. Ultimately, even with a squad with few options up front and a lightweight midfield, we are still close to play offs, so you could argue that our coaches have performed well. 
It’s been dull at home, but our strength is at centre back, so play to that. Away it’s fine frustrating the opposition and sneaking a win.

Yes, absolutely.  SL might think that is a good season in retrospect if he sees Webster and Afobe as defining.  I’m fine with that.  League position is a guiding line, not the be-all and end-all (although pretty important).

The key is to turn around this slump quickly, keep in the mix.

What we need is ownership, not excuses, whether that stays internal or not I don’t care.

Just listened to the 9 minute audio from yesterday.  Apart from a bit of bullshit bingo, I thought it was standard fayre.  What we do need is evidence v Wigan that 3 day’s rest and then preparation has had an affect.  Otherwise it’s just another “let’s do something different and good it works, eventually something will” plan.

Saturday has to be the start.

[Major Isewater]

29 minutes ago, spudski said:

So we make top 6 then lose in the play offs... A Scenario that is odds on more likely to happen.

You can guarantee many will still say we failed miserably.

Top 6 means nothing. I wish fans wouldn't keep hanging their hat in it.

It's a complete lottery.

Cmon Major... you're better than that.

We can go back to last season, to when we had a dip. The forum was just as vitriolic then. Then we ended up doing ok.

It really is so frustrating...

Frustrating is the word .

Frustrating that the hopes of pushing on seem to have evaporated. We can all say that we are just two points off the play offs but until recently we were in with a shout of top two , then top three , then top six .

Legitimate questions are being asked after  record spending and I hope those same questions are being asked at the club.

Losing in the play offs would be an advance on last season and I believe that most supporters would accept that and look forward to going one step further in the following season in the same way Brighton did .

It , however, is not just down to results but the style of play that is bring criticised . After all the signings we still don’t look to have a solid coherent team that know what they’re doing or where they’re supposed to be.

Maybe we are over performing in the Championship but we certainly weren’t at home against a mid table League 1 side yesterday.

 I ask once again, who’s responsible ?

[The Fat Controller]

53 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

The point being that we were sold  very forcefully the idea that we were going to go for it after nearish misses in the last couple of seasons.

....

It is normal that having touched greatness that now questions are being asked as to why , once again, we appear to be falling away alarmingly.

Touching on a your point about "going for it" and also the "poor frontline" Spudski mentioned - I do wonder how different the last 6 weeks or so would have been if we'd had Afobe available. I know our hopes should not be pinned on one player, but there were points in the games he played that we looked so fluid and dynamic. There is a knock on effect for those around him - Palmer, Weimann, Nagy all looked better with him in the side. 

Perhaps if we "go for it" in January and get the right sort of forward to replace him then the jigsaw pieces will fall into the correct places again. I have no idea who that signing should be. 

As an aside, I am a fan of Diedhiou and I still think he has not been played for any run of games alongside the right forward partner. If he'd played alongside Djuric or Taylor for a run of games I think we would have seen more out of him. His goal return has been decent under the circumstances. Maybe even Diedhiou & Afobe would have worked well too. 

[Norn Iron]

10 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I ask once again, who’s responsible ?

Major, take Golf as an example. The more you earn in prize money determines your ranking. Consequently, the higher your BCFC salary the more responsible you are on and off the pitch! If a player is on £5k a week (which is £2k more than I get per annum as a full time carer to my wife) this figure should be the benchmark of accountability. 

I appreciate that football salaries are an anomaly currently compared to our glorious days in the seventies but I would start with the players and staff who are on more than £5k per week. 

[Major Isewater]

7 minutes ago, Chris_Brown said:

Touching on a your point about "going for it" and also the "poor frontline" Spudski mentioned - I do wonder how different the last 6 weeks or so would have been if we'd had Afobe available. I know our hopes should not be pinned on one player, but there were points in the games he played that we looked so fluid and dynamic. There is a knock on effect for those around him - Palmer, Weimann, Nagy all looked better with him in the side. 

Perhaps if we "go for it" in January and get the right sort of forward to replace him then the jigsaw pieces will fall into the correct places again. I have no idea who that signing should be. 

As an aside, I am a fan of Diedhiou and I still think he has not been played for any run of games alongside the right forward partner. If he'd played alongside Djuric or Taylor for a run of games I think we would have seen more out of him. His goal return has been decent under the circumstances. Maybe even Diedhiou & Afobe would have worked well too. 

We have been unlucky with injuries it’s true but bizarrely we were doing more than Ok until those players started coming back .

It was thought, not unreasonably, that when our ‘ first choice ‘ players were available that we would kick on .

 

[mozo]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

True mate....on paper. But take into consideration to the injuries we've had again this season to arguably our best three players, Kalas, DaSilva, Afobe...Then experience in midfield of Smith. Also Nagy. That's going to take it's toll.

We have been putting in performances that reflect that. Use of a rotating constant injury filled squad, that's often overplayed in certain positions and has lacked experience in certain areas.

I think what's happening now is a reflection of that.

Tired over used inexperienced players, being replaced by players that have had long term injuries and getting back up to speed. 

And a very poor frontline.

Everything adds up imo.

I think you make some really good points there, but I do still have some issues with the extenuating circumstances...

It's hard to sympathise with injuries when our performances have gotten worse with a fully fit squad.

We saw Blackburn lose their talisman, then beat us.

An injury ravaged Charlton beat us.

We've seen Massengo, Nagy, Palmer and O'Dowda regress before our eyes.

We've seen young players publicly blamed.

And the Afobe situation bothers me. He wasn't a world beater, just the type of top end Championship striker we needed two years ago.

I think the transition season argument is actually the strongest in support of LJ as it happens. And that requires patience.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

26 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

We have been unlucky with injuries it’s true but bizarrely we were doing more than Ok until those players started coming back .

It was thought, not unreasonably, that when our ‘ first choice ‘ players were available that we would kick on .

 

Speaking for myself only, I assumed it was a bit of a holding pattern until said players (Afobe aside as we can't hold until then). Rowe filling in at LWB and LB, Williams in a back 3, a bit conservative with tactics to reflect. 

I assumed that LJ would move towards a more fluid style and shape as players returned and we would in due course- not instantly of course, but soon enough move towards this.

Greater control in games, a bit more dominance...the current setup despite the good returning injured players in no way lends itself to this.

[Mr Popodopolous]

It's all hindsight of course but I believe a better way for the club might have been to say, worded quite differently obviously but underlying message... 

'Okay, the Championship isn't as not as strong as it was, and maybe a bit transitional. We've been building albeit within FFP and sustainability, and this should be a TWO year window for promotion. 

Strong top 6 challenge or actual finish this year but build as well towards 2020-21...where promotion IS the aim. 

Because much that we've spent we've also had a lot of churn and change. Age profile of a lot of the signings means that two years rather than one acceptable, with some tweaks in year two'. 

That's a sensible underlying message IMO. I've said before that I have a feeling it'd be a two year window. The club possibly haven't communicated this in the best way?

[Sleepy1968]

31 minutes ago, Norn Iron said:

Major, take Golf as an example. The more you earn in prize money determines your ranking. Consequently, the higher your BCFC salary the more responsible you are on and off the pitch! If a player is on £5k a week (which is £2k more than I get per annum as a full time carer to my wife) this figure should be the benchmark of accountability. 

I appreciate that football salaries are an anomaly currently compared to our glorious days in the seventies but I would start with the players and staff who are on more than £5k per week. 

I think you're thinking along similar lines to what I've read in 'Football Hackers' which was mentioned on here a couple of months back.

It's not quite the same, but what the author says is that studies have shown that there is a close positive correlation with player salaries (NOT transfer fees) and league finishing position. Say we pay the 10th highest wages in the league (I don't know whether we do) then we should expect to finish around 10th (+/- one or two places). Finishing in the top 6 (+4) (or getting relegated (--11)) would then be an anomoly. It's a way of saying that the market works, and you get what you pay for (ignoring the transfer fee). Or in your terms the higher the salary the higher the accountibilty taken by players.

That kind of goes against the idea that the coaches have very much of an impact on what happens.

[Norn Iron]

3 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

That kind of goes against the idea that the coaches have very much of an impact

Thanks Sleepy for posting that idea. 

I would disagree though with your above last point. My spin on it would be that if your team ended +4 then it would be down to the background team and coaches for over-delivering.

It's the same as armies on war from past history. You might have the best trained soldiers with the best hardware but unless you have the right management, you could lose the battle to a smaller army with poorer weaponry. 

Sir Terry Cooper achieved promotion with little money and a good game plan so if we used your formula, the team would have been +20 (thank you also to Sir Alan Walsh)! 

Maybe the formula is correct if you say the += great management.

[marksy]

6 hours ago, Charlie BCFC said:

Don’t care, I’m going because the team need our support

I'm going because I've got a season ticket and I've got nothing better to do. We need a home victory for sure!

[Med/MadHatter]

6 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Whisper? Bollocks to a few random Australians.

I have always been proud to say I support Bristol City, even in the 4th division

If City really are your team wear your City shirt in Australia with pride and tell any random PL lovers plainly Bristol City is your team however we're doing.

 

 

 

.

You can swap Australians to Canadians for me, but the rest is the same for me, i have even got a few Canucks following City too!

[City oz]

9 hours ago, The dastardly red said:

Heaven forbid... even the players?

Calling for a boycott?

You whisper when asked who you support?

You're going to give your cider army tee shirt to the dog so he can have it in his dog bed?

I think you may have a few roos loose in the top paddock.

 

Probably it was because I fell a sleep in the sun after drinking 8 beers. Woke up with sun stroke 

[MattWSM]

13 hours ago, Chappers said:

I’ll be at Wigan, home to Barnsley, Reading maybe, QPR. Take the rough with the smooth, the bad times make you appreciate the good times even more.

exactly, never  boring with City. They just need to enjoy the ride, we climb we fall we climb we fall we twist we turn. every club is like this to some degree

 

in 40 years I have been following city it has been interesting, like you said take the rough with the smooth but enjoy. 

clubs should be judged season by season not week by week, sometimes it needs a change mid season if rapidly falling but we don't need that. let's judge and reflect in May.