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extonsred
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2 minutes ago, Chappers said:

We spent a lot of money, but on existing players and ones who were unlikely to be an immediate improvement, with the exception of Bentley.

Felt sorry for Massengo yesterday, gets knocked around a lot, and treated the ball like a hand grenade, never looked happy in possession. He looks way off being Championship ready, and for a club like us, it’s a lot of money tied up in a long term prospect.

Yep, it's a shame about Massengo. I'd like to think that if we were more proficient with our passing we'd buy him more space and time so he'd have the freedom he needs. As it stands, he's receiving the ball under pressure too often and he's not mature enough to handle that. 

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1 minute ago, CotswoldRed said:

Yep, it's a shame about Massengo. I'd like to think that if we were more proficient with our passing we'd buy him more space and time so he'd have the freedom he needs. As it stands, he's receiving the ball under pressure too often and he's not mature enough to handle that. 

He was forced to play more games than was planned due to injuries. He need to develop and will, need a bit of perspective on here. 

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2 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

Yep, it's a shame about Massengo. I'd like to think that if we were more proficient with our passing we'd buy him more space and time so he'd have the freedom he needs. As it stands, he's receiving the ball under pressure too often and he's not mature enough to handle that. 

Massengo is a very young player and this is the first time he'll have played in a team out of form, he'll come through it better for the experience and is going to be a top player. One or two are saying we've wasted our money on him but I'm sure if we said he was available to other clubs we'd get our money back in an instant.

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@extonsred

So what was your optimism based on?

Your post is you summing up your feeling of being let down/having your hopes and dreams crushed.

Why were YOU wrong? What did you believe would happen that didn't happen? What was the evidence behind your optimism? Because you must have had reasons to be optimistic, because you wouldn't feel so let down.

 

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I get fans frustrations and it's even worse when we lose or play unentertaining football.

However...it happens at pretty much every Club.

The biggest problem we have as Club and Fan base, is having the monicur of 'Biggest Club' not to have played in the Prem.

Every season goes by, and you can feel the pressure building.

Even more so in recent years, as we have progressed fast on and off the pitch.

It intensifies even more when the Club state they are aiming for promotion.

And this imo, is why fans get so angry and frustrated. The constant carrot being dangled.

It's a ridiculous scenario. Anyone in their right mind can see we aren't promotion contender's.

What if we did make the play offs..then what? It's a total lottery...it means nothing to make that. More odds against losing and putting the Club backwards.

As a Club it really needs to keep consolidating and getting to a point of strength to go up eventually as top 2.

Fans scream...' why can't we do a Huddersfield'?...well now look at them.

The Prem is not the be all and end all of football.

Forget the Prem...enjoy little ol Bristol City being a half decent Championship side. We are punching above our 'natural' position.

We still are little ol Bristol City...the whole football world still see's us as that...and we are.

For want of an example...as a business scenario...the Established Directors are looking down at us, and can see some raw talent. Over the past few years, we've gone from being the best office junior, been given a company car and promotion, got into middle management and are still learning on the job. Making some outstanding contributions that are taken note of, then making some right howlers.

The Directors can see you aren't ready yet to make it a Director. We still need to learn from making mistakes and improving as we go. The Bright raw office junior, is learning that further up the business you get, the harder it becomes, and years of experience is needed to fully succeed.

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13 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Have you any proof of this or are you letting your irrational hatred of LJ get the better of you again?

Previous clubs and their fans reactions over his leaving was a pretty good indicator - his performances over his last couple of seasons here playing!

yes I dislike/don’t rate him

How many here can honestly say they were excited when he was appointed?

 

 

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9 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

Massengo is a very young player and this is the first time he'll have played in a team out of form, he'll come through it better for the experience and is going to be a top player. One or two are saying we've wasted our money on him but I'm sure if we said he was available to other clubs we'd get our money back in an instant.

Far from writing him off, he had a good game at Stoke, but if I’m honest, I’ve not seen enough hints of brilliance to justify the fee. Yes he should develop, and yes we hope we have a gem, but my point is whether City can afford to invest so much money in a player who is 2/3 years away from being Championship ready. 

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1 minute ago, dave36 said:

Previous clubs and their fans reactions over his leaving was a pretty good indicator - his performances over his last couple of seasons here playing!

yes I dislike/don’t rate him

How many here can honestly say they were excited when he was appointed?

 

 

Apart from lj being a family friend to the landsdown family what other reason was he appointed in the first place, he’s achieved nothing 

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4 minutes ago, glen humphries said:

Apart from lj being a family friend to the landsdown family what other reason was he appointed in the first place, he’s achieved nothing 

SL knew he'd be agreeable and, therefore, easy to work with. 

You can see that as very sensible, or a bit weak I suppose. 

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8 minutes ago, glen humphries said:

Apart from lj being a family friend to the landsdown family what other reason was he appointed in the first place, he’s achieved nothing 

Far from achieving nothing we're now a regular top-half team whereas when he joined we were a relegation outfit at Championship level. Historically we're doing better than almost any period since we got relegated from Div 1 in 1980 (apart from the one season under GJ when we got to the playoff final)

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4 minutes ago, spudski said:

 

Forget the Prem...enjoy little ol Bristol City being a half decent Championship side. We are punching above our 'natural' position.

We still are little ol Bristol City...the whole football world still see's us as that...and we are.

I agree with nearly all of your post - but you also now have Sky et all during build up to our live games making comments like “this club is geared up for the premier league” “Bristol City are set up for a promotion push”.

We are about where we should be IMO so we don’t need to over-achieve by much to challenge. You keep saying football isn’t played on paper.....that’s the beauty of it.

In terms of league position and promotion, I’m really not bothered about the Premiership and I can fully accept a mid-table place in the Championship - but not playing the football we’re currently playing - and the only person who can fix that is the coach. 

LJs many many signings (I don’t buy all that BS about them being Mark Ashton signings) and it’s his job to get them playing and install self belief. 
 

If I wanted to watch walking football, I could do so for free!! 

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That's all very well @spudski but surely something like Brentford's model isn't beyond us?

Personally, I am not too bothered about the Prem but I'd like to see some good football.  We haven't had that since our high energy game of the Man Utd season.  This fell away because we didn't have the squad size to maintain it. We have that now with lots of players of similar ability.  Yet, what we get is really turgid football, where players dwell too long on the ball, take too many touches and in recent week misplace numerous passes to opposition.  I don't mind a misplaced pass when it's an adventurous/ambitious one forwards, but these have been misplaced supposedly 'safe' passes backwards to a teammate!!  

Right now it has all the hallmarks of the players being over coached again.  It needs to be stripped back to basics and players given simple instructions to follow. 

Edited by RedSkin
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I just think Ashton needs to come out and say the half dozen pillars are scrapped, dead, no more, ceasing to exist; they are a cloud over the club mainly because nobody in or out of the club has a clue what they are. Serving to confuse and obfuscate the very essence of the bedrock for success; team harmony. Sound stupid? I jest but its a serious point. Too much carp about process. Remember KISS ? City over complicate under LJ and its not all his fault. 

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24 minutes ago, spudski said:

I get fans frustrations and it's even worse when we lose or play unentertaining football.

However...it happens at pretty much every Club.

The biggest problem we have as Club and Fan base, is having the monicur of 'Biggest Club' not to have played in the Prem.

Every season goes by, and you can feel the pressure building.

Even more so in recent years, as we have progressed fast on and off the pitch.

It intensifies even more when the Club state they are aiming for promotion.

And this imo, is why fans get so angry and frustrated. The constant carrot being dangled.

It's a ridiculous scenario. Anyone in their right mind can see we aren't promotion contender's.

What if we did make the play offs..then what? It's a total lottery...it means nothing to make that. More odds against losing and putting the Club backwards.

As a Club it really needs to keep consolidating and getting to a point of strength to go up eventually as top 2.

Fans scream...' why can't we do a Huddersfield'?...well now look at them.

The Prem is not the be all and end all of football.

Forget the Prem...enjoy little ol Bristol City being a half decent Championship side. We are punching above our 'natural' position.

We still are little ol Bristol City...the whole football world still see's us as that...and we are.

For want of an example...as a business scenario...the Established Directors are looking down at us, and can see some raw talent. Over the past few years, we've gone from being the best office junior, been given a company car and promotion, got into middle management and are still learning on the job. Making some outstanding contributions that are taken note of, then making some right howlers.

The Directors can see you aren't ready yet to make it a Director. We still need to learn from making mistakes and improving as we go. The Bright raw office junior, is learning that further up the business you get, the harder it becomes, and years of experience is needed to fully succeed.

Brilliant attitude that. Let’s just not bother then.

Look at the likes of Sheff Utd, Leicester, Wolves and Bournemouth who have all had stints in League One before making their way up the football ladder. That’s what we should be aspiring to be. 

You do post some negative drivel sometimes.

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31 minutes ago, spudski said:

I get fans frustrations and it's even worse when we lose or play unentertaining football.

However...it happens at pretty much every Club.

The biggest problem we have as Club and Fan base, is having the monicur of 'Biggest Club' not to have played in the Prem.

Every season goes by, and you can feel the pressure building.

Even more so in recent years, as we have progressed fast on and off the pitch.

It intensifies even more when the Club state they are aiming for promotion.

And this imo, is why fans get so angry and frustrated. The constant carrot being dangled.

It's a ridiculous scenario. Anyone in their right mind can see we aren't promotion contender's.

What if we did make the play offs..then what? It's a total lottery...it means nothing to make that. More odds against losing and putting the Club backwards.

As a Club it really needs to keep consolidating and getting to a point of strength to go up eventually as top 2.

Fans scream...' why can't we do a Huddersfield'?...well now look at them.

The Prem is not the be all and end all of football.

Forget the Prem...enjoy little ol Bristol City being a half decent Championship side. We are punching above our 'natural' position.

We still are little ol Bristol City...the whole football world still see's us as that...and we are.

For want of an example...as a business scenario...the Established Directors are looking down at us, and can see some raw talent. Over the past few years, we've gone from being the best office junior, been given a company car and promotion, got into middle management and are still learning on the job. Making some outstanding contributions that are taken note of, then making some right howlers.

The Directors can see you aren't ready yet to make it a Director. We still need to learn from making mistakes and improving as we go. The Bright raw office junior, is learning that further up the business you get, the harder it becomes, and years of experience is needed to fully succeed.

Another team were considered "Little Old", namely Bournemouth........theyv"e done OK in a stadium that holds around 11K.  Just need a plan and a decent coach?

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When the summer window closed my expectations for this season were frankly pretty low.

We spent most of our funds on the three Chelsea players who were already here last season. We were crying out for two quality forwards and didn't get them. Afobe was a pleasant surprise that sadly didn't last long.

Our start, in terms of points, was another pleasant surprise and suggested we might achieve, even without those forwards we so obviously needed.

However we are now about where I expected at the start of the season. It does feel to me that we've spent a lot of money to end up with a bloated squad of average players. Apart from Eliasson we have no-one who excites in the final third. It looks to me like we will struggle to make any further big sales and will have to economise a bit to stay within FFP.

So get used to being a mid-table Championship team for the foreseeable. It's better than a L1/champ yo yo team which is what we've been for many years before this recent improvement.

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13 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Another team were considered "Little Old", namely Bournemouth........theyv"e done OK in a stadium that holds around 11K.  Just need a plan and a decent coach?

And overspending to go unchecked and unpunished. 

250%+ revenue to wages ratio wasn't it? 

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Why embarrassed?  I don't get that one little bit, I'm not even sad, just pissed off that I'm spending good money and watching some crap football games at the moment.

But that's football, sometimes it is bloody amazing, other times it is absolute turd.

You absolutely can't claim this is your most despondent time following City in 60 years, that is utter, absolute nonsense and we can't keep agreeing with this attitude.

We are doing moderately well in the Championship, currently suffering a loss of form, and will no doubt regain some better form soon.

How can anyone be embarrassed at the moment?

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16 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

Brilliant attitude that. Let’s just not bother then.

Look at the likes of Sheff Utd, Leicester, Wolves and Bournemouth who have all had stints in League One before making their way up the football ladder. That’s what we should be aspiring to be. 

You do post some negative drivel sometimes.

You've misunderstood my post.

Of course aim for Promotion. But be realistic and enjoy the ride. That way you aren't disappointed every season if promotion doesn't come around.

Your examples sound like a spoilt brat moaning...'why can't we be like that Uncle Steve...it's just not fair' 🤣

We are aspiring to go up the league ladder, and we have done every season for a few years now.

We've had these moaning threads just as much over the past few seasons under LJ. And each year we finished higher. Same old, same old.

No one these days it seems see's the bigger picture. No one is patient anymore. We've only been up four seasons. And fans are demanding promotion...just because a few others have done it 

If it was so easy...20 other clubs would be demanding the same.🙄

 

 

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2 minutes ago, spudski said:

You've misunderstood my post.

Of course aim for Promotion. But be realistic and enjoy the ride. That way you aren't disappointed every season if promotion doesn't come around.

Your examples sound like a spoilt brat moaning...'why can't we be like that Uncle Steve...it's just not fair' 🤣

We are aspiring to go up the league ladder, and we have done every season for a few years now.

We've had these moaning threads just as much over the past few seasons under LJ. And each year we finished higher. Same old, same old.

No one these days it seems see's the bigger picture. No one is patient anymore. We've only been up four seasons. And fans are demanding promotion...just because a few others have done it 

If it was so easy...20 other clubs would be demanding the same.🙄

 

 

Again that’s just hyperbole. No one that I’ve seen is ‘demanding promotion’ whatsoever so why say it? 
From what I’ve seen people just want for us to start playing some decent football which has this fabled ‘identity’ that we are continually told about, with a better use of the resources available, for him to stop with the gobbledegook analysis and also stop chucking players under the bus as opposed to taking personal responsibility sometimes.  

 

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5 minutes ago, spudski said:

You've misunderstood my post.

Of course aim for Promotion. But be realistic and enjoy the ride. That way you aren't disappointed every season if promotion doesn't come around.

Your examples sound like a spoilt brat moaning...'why can't we be like that Uncle Steve...it's just not fair' 🤣

We are aspiring to go up the league ladder, and we have done every season for a few years now.

We've had these moaning threads just as much over the past few seasons under LJ. And each year we finished higher. Same old, same old.

No one these days it seems see's the bigger picture. No one is patient anymore. We've only been up four seasons. And fans are demanding promotion...just because a few others have done it 

If it was so easy...20 other clubs would be demanding the same.🙄

 

 

You’ve mentioned in another thread a couple of weeks ago when someone else mentioned other teams getting promoted over us, said they were having a tantrum...

I read their question as referring to the club. Surely Steve Lansdown and co., should be asking those kinds of questions after all their investment? Why is it not working for BCFC? 

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

I get fans frustrations and it's even worse when we lose or play unentertaining football.

However...it happens at pretty much every Club.

The biggest problem we have as Club and Fan base, is having the monicur of 'Biggest Club' not to have played in the Prem.

Every season goes by, and you can feel the pressure building.

Even more so in recent years, as we have progressed fast on and off the pitch.

It intensifies even more when the Club state they are aiming for promotion.

And this imo, is why fans get so angry and frustrated. The constant carrot being dangled.

It's a ridiculous scenario. Anyone in their right mind can see we aren't promotion contender's.

What if we did make the play offs..then what? It's a total lottery...it means nothing to make that. More odds against losing and putting the Club backwards.

As a Club it really needs to keep consolidating and getting to a point of strength to go up eventually as top 2.

Fans scream...' why can't we do a Huddersfield'?...well now look at them.

The Prem is not the be all and end all of football.

Forget the Prem...enjoy little ol Bristol City being a half decent Championship side. We are punching above our 'natural' position.

We still are little ol Bristol City...the whole football world still see's us as that...and we are.

For want of an example...as a business scenario...the Established Directors are looking down at us, and can see some raw talent. Over the past few years, we've gone from being the best office junior, been given a company car and promotion, got into middle management and are still learning on the job. Making some outstanding contributions that are taken note of, then making some right howlers.

The Directors can see you aren't ready yet to make it a Director. We still need to learn from making mistakes and improving as we go. The Bright raw office junior, is learning that further up the business you get, the harder it becomes, and years of experience is needed to fully succeed.

Don't mean to be sarcastic or demeaning but if we all "accepted who we are and our station in life" we would still be living in caves and with no ambitions.

Bournemouth, Brighton, Wolves, Leicester and plenty of others clearly don't have that "we know our place" attitude so why the hell should Bristol City be different.

As Chairman Fricker once said to me in the nineties, "We prefer to be a big fish in the little (Third Division) pond".

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2 minutes ago, spudski said:

You've misunderstood my post.

Of course aim for Promotion. But be realistic and enjoy the ride. That way you aren't disappointed every season if promotion doesn't come around.

Your examples sound like a spoilt brat moaning...'why can't we be like that Uncle Steve...it's just not fair' 🤣

We are aspiring to go up the league ladder, and we have done every season for a few years now.

We've had these moaning threads just as much over the past few seasons under LJ. And each year we finished higher. Same old, same old.

No one these days it seems see's the bigger picture. No one is patient anymore. We've only been up four seasons. And fans are demanding promotion...just because a few others have done it 

If it was so easy...20 other clubs would be demanding the same.🙄

 

 

I got your point.

Do you ever think one of the reasons why we haven’t had a successful football team in this City is because of the attitude you have. The old laid back Bristolian attitude who are happy with mediocrity, we are what we are etc.

I am looking at the bigger picture and I think it’s fair to say City fans have been patient. 40 years now is it? 

It doesn’t help with Lansdown, LJ coming out every pre season saying we want promotion because more often than not, we end up being disappointed. 

Look, I think Lee has done a good job up until now. He’s made us an established club and a team looking up. However, the squad is bloated, we have some fantastic talent and I believe we should be doing better. 

But if you’re happy with little ol Bristol City where they are, then why should we bother eh?

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