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Monday....decision day!?


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10 hours ago, NickJ said:

That's not entirely correct Harry.

If people thought he was doing a good job, they would warm to him, as so many did with Cotterill, who was hated by many when he came here and left as a hero even if it did go a bit wrong at the end, because his achievements were recognized.

In my opinion Johnson is not a credible manager as he does not give the impression of being a leader that could command respect. 

The "Johnsonisms" thread is a funny example of Johnson using ostensibly clever sounding phrases which are in reality cringeworthy idiocies which mean nothing. I'm sure some players will earnestly lap it up but equally older and/or wiser heads will probably just think it's a bit of a joke.

I maintain that the alleged year on year improvement is in spite of Johnson not because of him. Given the amount of money spent on players and the woeful boring performances of late, I would seriously challenge the suggestion that he's earned any right to continue as manager.

 

Cotterill had no history with our fan base. Many didn’t want him but there wasn’t the level of hatred that lots already held for LJ. 

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18 minutes ago, Harry said:

Cotterill had no history with our fan base. Many didn’t want him but there wasn’t the level of hatred that lots already held for LJ. 

I haven't met a City fan who hates LJ. Yes, there are a few on here who keep saying they never liked him but that's a big step down from 'hatred'.

I thought he was a very poor choice as manager, done for all the wrong reasons ( certainly from a fans' point of view) but certainly didn't dislike him personally.

Cotterill had a far more vitriolic reception as manager on here than LJ did.

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2 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I haven't met a City fan who hates LJ. Yes, there are a few on here who keep saying they never liked him but that's a big step down from 'hatred'.

I thought he was a very poor choice as manager, done for all the wrong reasons ( certainly from a fans' point of view) but certainly didn't dislike him personally.

Cotterill had a far more vitriolic reception as manager on here than LJ did.

Plenty elsewhere...

AB193B6D-15D9-4DF0-820F-E0707A78C577.jpeg

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7 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Plenty? One person?

I expect many agree with Luke Bray's comment.

I’ve seen plenty of similar comments on social media over the past few weeks. I’ve used that one as an example......especially when no one has called him out for saying it.

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18 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I haven't met a City fan who hates LJ. Yes, there are a few on here who keep saying they never liked him but that's a big step down from 'hatred'.

I thought he was a very poor choice as manager, done for all the wrong reasons ( certainly from a fans' point of view) but certainly didn't dislike him personally.

Cotterill had a far more vitriolic reception as manager on here than LJ did.

I said in my previous post that there is a significant minority of fans who didn’t like LJ as a player. I also commented therein that some of that dislike does go as far as hatred - only some. 
I’ve seen it. You may be lucky enough not to have encountered it, but I’ve seen it. 

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1 minute ago, Harry said:

I said in my previous post that there is a significant minority of fans who didn’t like LJ as a player. I also commented therein that some of that dislike does go as far as hatred - only some. 
I’ve seen it. You may be lucky enough not to have encountered it, but I’ve seen it. 

OK, I saw it with Cotterill on here when he was appointed, and those posters never changed their minds.

It's not unique to LJ, or indeed City, some fans at every club dislike the manager whoever it is.

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Okay thanks, I'll look it up again...now IF he was sacked before the Tuesday game vs Preston then yeah that makes sense, but it's a bit of a disconnect for me given I clearly remember us losing to Preston, Cotts rowing with a fan when he came off the pitch, some sort of mutual flak, then him being sacked and Pemberton in charge vs Boro...Wes Burns last minute winner?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35229562

The text thing rings a bell, yep.

Pretty sure we lost to PNE on a Tuesday night, Cotts had an argument with a fan.

He did the pre-match presser for Boro, went home. Then received a text from Dawe.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35319397

14th January 2016.  A Thursday!!  

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7 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

OK, I saw it with Cotterill on here when he was appointed, and those posters never changed their minds.

It's not unique to LJ, or indeed City, some fans at every club dislike the manager whoever it is.

But the difference is the history. 
Yes, fans do or don’t like managerial appointments. But with LJ there was already a historical dislike for him amongst some fans from when he was a player. And that group of fans will never give him any rope. 
 

This is undeniable. Many fans didn’t like LJ as player and will never accept him as a manager. Absolutely undeniable. 

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7 minutes ago, Harry said:

But the difference is the history. 
Yes, fans do or don’t like managerial appointments. But with LJ there was already a historical dislike for him amongst some fans from when he was a player. And that group of fans will never give him any rope. 

Yep, but all you're doing is giving is a reason why a few fans were/are against him.

There are reasons why every managerial appointment at every club divides supporters.

Many others were against him because they simply saw him as a dreadful appointment who would never have got the job at another Championship club at the time.

Most of either opinion would make their feelings known at the beginning but then judge him on the job he does.

As opposed to Cotterill who never got any credit from some despite his undoubted triumphs.

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3 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Yep, but all you're doing is giving is a reason why a few fans were/are against him.

There are reasons why every managerial appointment at every club divides supporters.

Many others were against him because they simply saw him as a dreadful appointment who would never have got the job at another Championship club at the time.

Most of either opinion would make their feelings known at the beginning but then judge him on the job he does.

As opposed to Cotterill who never got any credit from some despite his undoubted triumphs.

That is pretty fair.

Conscious and unconscious bias for and against both.

For many, Cotts was a long ball, arrogant ****t who many hadn’t really seen any of his sides play, but formed that opinion anyway. 

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Honestly, I doubt Lee's position is even being considered by anybody at the club.

The continued talk about the poor standard of football is of course subjective, and isn't continually as bad as people would have you believe (although I didn't go to Millwall, Blackburn or Brentford home games as my funds were at an all time low).

And as things stand we are still play-off candidates.  If we get our form back, it is reasonable to suggest we could win 2 of the next 3 games, and be right up in the mix.

Unless City start getting hammered every week, I cannot see that Lee will be at risk this season.

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6 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

Honestly, I doubt Lee's position is even being considered by anybody at the club.

The continued talk about the poor standard of football is of course subjective, and isn't continually as bad as people would have you believe (although I didn't go to Millwall, Blackburn or Brentford home games as my funds were at an all time low).

And as things stand we are still play-off candidates.  If we get our form back, it is reasonable to suggest we could win 2 of the next 3 games, and be right up in the mix.

Unless City start getting hammered every week, I cannot see that Lee will be at risk this season.

Bloody hell you are up and down like a ******* yo-yo. Last week you said his position was becoming untenable? The week before you issued a rallying call. I can't keep up.

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9 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

Honestly, I doubt Lee's position is even being considered by anybody at the club.

The continued talk about the poor standard of football is of course subjective, and isn't continually as bad as people would have you believe (although I didn't go to Millwall, Blackburn or Brentford home games as my funds were at an all time low).

 

?

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5 minutes ago, BCFC Grim said:

Bloody hell you are up and down like a ******* yo-yo. Last week you said his position was becoming untenable? The week before you issued a rallying call. I can't keep up.

.....at least he admits to not watching certain games, unlike some on here.

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12 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

Honestly, I doubt Lee's position is even being considered by anybody at the club.

The continued talk about the poor standard of football is of course subjective, and isn't continually as bad as people would have you believe (although I didn't go to Millwall, Blackburn or Brentford home games as my funds were at an all time low).

And as things stand we are still play-off candidates.  If we get our form back, it is reasonable to suggest we could win 2 of the next 3 games, and be right up in the mix.

Unless City start getting hammered every week, I cannot see that Lee will be at risk this season.

I bet you like boring water and a ham and cheese sandwich in your meal deal 

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5 minutes ago, BCFC Grim said:

Bloody hell you are up and down like a ******* yo-yo. Last week you said his position was becoming untenable? The week before you issued a rallying call. I can't keep up.

Good point, I felt last week that his position might be untenable, mainly because of his volatile reaction to the Brentford manager, and the interesting Hand of R'od thread on OTIB, but in the cold light of day I doubt his post is under threat in the eyes of the club's board and the owner.

I do change my mind quite often though ...

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Had a season ticket the year it all looked so good, stopped going towards the end of that campaign and have only been a few times since. But in those games I have witnessed is the most boring football ive ever seen, no intensity, no plan, pass it sideways and backwards to then hit it long to Fam (he has his critics for sure, but doesnt get a great amount of service in this current set up). Why we dont go with 4-2-3-1 beyond me, that way we could get Palmer and Eliasson in the team together. The team is chopped and changed every game so no wonder there is no cohesion. Its honestly beyond a joke with how much we are spending on our current squad that we have these runs of such poor form. That has to come from the top, to have such long periods of poor results is a LJ trait that will never leave him!

 

He has to go for us to progress as a club. Give a decent championship manager the money he has invested and we would be challenging top 2 imho

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26 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That is pretty fair.

Conscious and unconscious bias for and against both.

For many, Cotts was a long ball, arrogant ****t who many hadn’t really seen any of his sides play, but formed that opinion anyway. 

Sure, I didn't know that much about SC (apart from his record at other clubs) but was 100% behind him from the first interview on the official site..

Inspirational, business like, and a man with a mission that you had every confidence he'd achieve. Immediately likeable imo too.

Struck me as the ideal man for City at the time.

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36 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Yep, but all you're doing is giving is a reason why a few fans were/are against him.

There are reasons why every managerial appointment at every club divides supporters.

Many others were against him because they simply saw him as a dreadful appointment who would never have got the job at another Championship club at the time.

Most of either opinion would make their feelings known at the beginning but then judge him on the job he does.

As opposed to Cotterill who never got any credit from some despite his undoubted triumphs.

It’s an undeniable difference. 
I wasn’t in favour of Cotterill but once here I was behind him and I now look back on his tenure as a success and I give him full credit for that. 
I know lots of people weren’t for SC but now happily acclaim him. 
LJ is a totally different ball game. There was an historical dislike for him and those who held bad feelings to him as a player will always be against him. I think even if LJ led us to the Prem, these people will still be unhappy with him. It’s ingrained. I’m amazed anyone would not agree with this - it’s quite quite obvious and not exactly been suppressed by those people. 

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11 minutes ago, Harry said:

It’s an undeniable difference. 
I wasn’t in favour of Cotterill but once here I was behind him and I now look back on his tenure as a success and I give him full credit for that. 
I know lots of people weren’t for SC but now happily acclaim him. 
LJ is a totally different ball game. There was an historical dislike for him and those who held bad feelings to him as a player will always be against him. I think even if LJ led us to the Prem, these people will still be unhappy with him. It’s ingrained. I’m amazed anyone would not agree with this - it’s quite quite obvious and not exactly been suppressed by those people. 

I don't think it matters why a small minority are against a manager at the start, or why a small minority may never change their minds.

You say you went on to give credit to SC, others didn't. Did that change mean you didn't still dislike him personally?

Some may have changed their minds with LJ, others not - they have less reason to perhaps?

Surely the reason most fans were against LJ's appointment was outright frustration because they thought it was a poor one, not because of a residual dislike of the individual?

 

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The truth is that ever since the internet became a thing, every single City manager has been pilloried on this and similar forums, sometimes justifiably, sometimes for the most bizarre reasons, some close to the mark, some totally made up, often by people smarting from a recent defeat and fuelled by too many ciders. Allegedly ....

John Ward: Ran out of ideas.

Benny Lennartsson; Didn't know English football. Stupid cap. 

Tony Pulis: Ex Gas. Welsh. Boring football.

Tony Fawthrop etc: Who?

Danny Wilson: Presided over a drinking culture. Underachiever.

Brian Tinnion: The cheap option. Inexperienced.

Gary Johnson: Conference manager. Lost the dressing room.

Steve Coppell: Should have refused to sign David James after being forced to do so, at gunpoint, by SL.

Keith Millen: The even cheaper than Tinnion option.

Derek McInnes: Inexperienced in England. Over reliance on Scottish players.

Sean O'Driscoll: Borderline personality disorder. Sniffed a lot.

Steve Cotterill: Alleged hoof ball merchant. Stroppy. Used wet look hair gel.

Lee Johnson: Gary's son. Small in stature. Uses unfamiliar words.

The one thing that unites them all is that as long as we were winning games, the criticism stopped and they were apparently the best manager in the league. When we start losing. it begins again, and so it will be until the end of recorded time.

COYR.

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2 hours ago, Redandproud said:

LJ Is NOT taking us any further, look at the last 4 seasons, got us into the playoff positions then we drop away, LJ has taken us as far as his experience has, its time for a change, someone with more experience of championship or Premier league, BUT, as stated, I think LANDSDOWN doesn't want to admit he was wrong, and pay wages for a more experienced manager to take us further, we're getting in the same situation as we were when GJ was manager, he lost the dressing room and players are not playing for him, 

So if you think we're under-achieving you obviously think we should be in the Premier League. At what point would you be happy, 20th, top half or Champions League winners?

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4 minutes ago, Dave L said:

The truth is that ever since the internet became a thing, every single City manager has been pilloried on this and similar forums, sometimes justifiably, sometimes for the most bizarre reasons, some close to the mark, some totally made up, often by people smarting from a recent defeat and fuelled by too many ciders.

The one thing that unites them all is that as long as we were winning games, the criticism stopped and they were apparently the best manager in the league. When we start losing. it begins again, and so it will be until the end of recorded time.

COYR.

Aint that the truth.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I don't think it matters why a small minority are against a manager at the start, or why a small minority may never change their minds.

You say you went on to give credit to SC, others didn't. Did that change mean you didn't still dislike him personally?

Some may have changed their minds with LJ, others not - they have less reason to perhaps?

Surely the reason most fans were against LJ's appointment was outright frustration because they thought it was a poor one, not because of a residual dislike of the individual?

 

With all due respect Noggers (and believe me, I like you as a contributor on this forum) in this case you have your head in the clouds. 
There are lots of fans who have always and will always dislike LJ purely based on their opinion of him when he was a player here. 

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1 hour ago, Harry said:

But the difference is the history. 
Yes, fans do or don’t like managerial appointments. But with LJ there was already a historical dislike for him amongst some fans from when he was a player. And that group of fans will never give him any rope. 
 

This is undeniable. Many fans didn’t like LJ as player and will never accept him as a manager. Absolutely undeniable. 

I never liked him as a player, for me he never did a lot. Rarely was a standout player, but on the other hand, rarely had a complete stinker. For me was a very average player, and some of the stick he got then, was uncalled for and was only because of who the manager was. I agree that some people don't like him for the same reasons, and never will.

As a coach/manager, I was sceptical on his appointment, but over time he did win me over. He has done a decent job, and we have improved every season. The runs and his comments/criticism of certain players have become tedious though, along with the crap football we are currently playing. I've now gone back on my opinion of him, and think it's time for him to go. 

Currently there seems to be a few groups of supporters:

Group 1: Hate LJ, have never liked him and never will. He will never do anything to win them over, and is the devil incarnate.

Group 2: The group I find myself in - didn't like him (or were indifferent towards him), did like him, now don't.

Group 3: Love LJ and are firmly in the "get behind him and he will take us into the Premiership" brigade. He is the longterm appointment, and won't be going anywhere.

Currently I think the fanbase is split into the 3 categories above. I don't honestly think that the board are even contemplating his position at the moment, and that's what is irking group 1, and possibly some of group 2.

Personally whilst we are still within touching distance of this season's target (playoffs), I don't think he's going anywhere. Does the board take action now to give someone new a chance whilst we are still within touching distance, and in an open transfer window, or leave it until later and make do with LJ's squad? I don't honestly think that they know 100% what they want to do (as a collective group). Of course we all know that SL/JL will make the final decision over that anyway, regardless of whether they agree with the majority of the board or not.

I think the only way he will leave any time soon, is if another club wants to take a chance on him, and that's why he has such a long contract - to protect the club and it's "asset". Currently though, I very much doubt anyone will want to take him on during one of his runs which he has become famous for. Even the Quest team call him streaky Lee!!

I'm currently of the opinion that nothing is going to change, and we will just plod along until Lee finds a combination of things to work again. We'll see if we make the playoffs, and if we don't then he will be sacked. If we do make it, then success or not, we will "go again" next season with him at the helm.

With Pulis, many hated him. Wilson, and Johnson Snr were given time, and most fans agreed that that was the right thing to do, and were disposed of when the time was right. Millen, Tinnion and Cotterill had ran their course, and most again agreed they had to go when they did. O'Driscoll and Mcinnes, again the time was right, although some will say had their work cut out from day 1 with the constraints they had at the time. SOD is part of the reason we have the system we currently do though....

I'm not sure that in recent memory one man has divided the fan base so much as Johnson Jnr. The arguments I feel, will go on and on long until after he goes.

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7 minutes ago, Dave L said:

The truth is that ever since the internet became a thing, every single City manager has been pilloried on this and similar forums, sometimes justifiably, sometimes for the most bizarre reasons, some close to the mark, some totally made up, often by people smarting from a recent defeat and fuelled by too many ciders. 

The one thing that unites them all is that as long as we were winning games, the criticism stopped and they were apparently the best manager in the league. When we start losing. it begins again, and so it will be until the end of recorded time.

 

Excellent summation of your average football fan Dave.

Regardless of how stylish or drab the football is, winning is all that matters.

 

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18 minutes ago, Dave L said:

The truth is that ever since the internet became a thing, every single City manager has been pilloried on this and similar forums, sometimes justifiably, sometimes for the most bizarre reasons, some close to the mark, some totally made up, often by people smarting from a recent defeat and fuelled by too many ciders. Allegedly ....

John Ward: Ran out of ideas.

Benny Lennartsson; Didn't know English football. Stupid cap. 

Tony Pulis: Ex Gas. Welsh. Boring football.

Tony Fawthrop etc: Who?

Danny Wilson: Presided over a drinking culture. Underachiever.

Brian Tinnion: The cheap option. Inexperienced.

Gary Johnson: Conference manager. Lost the dressing room.

Steve Coppell: Should have refused to sign David James after being forced to do so, at gunpoint, by SL.

Keith Millen: The even cheaper than Tinnion option.

Derek McInnes: Inexperienced in England. Over reliance on Scottish players.

Sean O'Driscoll: Borderline personality disorder. Sniffed a lot.

Steve Cotterill: Alleged hoof ball merchant. Stroppy. Used wet look hair gel.

Lee Johnson: Gary's son. Small in stature. Uses unfamiliar words.

The one thing that unites them all is that as long as we were winning games, the criticism stopped and they were apparently the best manager in the league. When we start losing. it begins again, and so it will be until the end of recorded time.

COYR.

Spot on.....especially your opening paragraph 

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