Jump to content

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums by signing in or creating an account.

  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Full access to all forums (not all viewable as guest)
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members.
  • Support OTIB with a premium membership

IGNORED

Monday....decision day!?


Recommended Posts

Just now, Dave L said:

The truth is that ever since the internet became a thing, every single City manager has been pilloried on this and similar forums, sometimes justifiably, sometimes for the most bizarre reasons, some close to the mark, some totally made up, often by people smarting from a recent defeat and fuelled by too many ciders. Allegedly ....

John Ward: Ran out of ideas.

Benny Lennartsson; Didn't know English football. Stupid cap. 

Tony Pulis: Ex Gas. Welsh. Boring football.

Tony Fawthrop etc: Who?

Danny Wilson: Presided over a drinking culture. Underachiever.

Brian Tinnion: The cheap option. Inexperienced.

Gary Johnson: Conference manager. Lost the dressing room.

Steve Coppell: Should have refused to sign David James after being forced to do so, at gunpoint, by SL.

Keith Millen: The even cheaper than Tinnion option.

Derek McInnes: Inexperienced in England. Over reliance on Scottish players.

Sean O'Driscoll: Borderline personality disorder. Sniffed a lot.

Steve Cotterill: Alleged hoof ball merchant. Stroppy. Used wet look hair gel.

Lee Johnson: Gary's son. Small in stature. Uses unfamiliar words.

The one thing that unites them all is that as long as we were winning games, the criticism stopped and they were apparently the best manager in the league. When we start losing. it begins again, and so it will be until the end of recorded time.

COYR.

Indeed. Going a step further, contrary to what some posters have said on here, I don't really buy into the idea there were a significant number of posters who were anti-Cotts.

A lot of people opposed his appointment at the time and yes, there were a lot of people who felt he was out of his depth in the Championship OR alternatively that he allowed his frustrations with the board to impact on our results on the pitch but there were, at most, one or two posters on here who refused to give him credit during our promotion season and they were consistently told they were talking nonsense by everyone else on here. I think a lot of the posters who wanted to stick with Cotts remember the stick Cotts got in his last few months, which as divisive a time as I have known it on these boards, but Cotts wasn't consistently getting criticism when we were winning. It was only when we struggled in the Championship that things got divisive.

On the flipside, I think LJ has found it a lot harder to win fans over. I think part of that reason is down to his personality. Cotts was passionate and temperamental but in a way that people could relate to. He was also plain speaking and a bit like Sam Allardyce in the sense that his rough and readyness as an individual sometimes meant people didn't realise quite how much he analysed the game and how good a tactical coach he was. 

LJ on the other hand frequently comes across as arrogant and clearly wants to be seen as a great tactical thinker, which sets himself up for a fall when his limitations are exposed. And I do think his manner and use of managerial speak does make it hard for a lot of people to like or empathise with him. I also think he has struggled to win over a section of fans that didn't think Cotts should have gone in the first place and resent the fact that LJ has been backed in a way that didn't seem to happen under Cotterill.

But, whilst I fear he has taken us as far he can, the reality is that our results and finishes in his tenure place him amongst the more successful managers we have had in the last 30 years. And I do think the idea that we've succeeded in spite of the manager is a bit of nonsense given how many times we've struggled even when we've invested substantially in the team in the past. And I think that is the issue for me. When people say our inconsistent form is unacceptable, we're not getting the best out of the players, we've not built on the League Cup season etc. then I think that is utterly fair criticism. But when people start refusing to give LJ the credit for even the bits that have gone well over the past three years then that is where it feels based way more in a personal vendetta than valid criticism. 

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Dave L said:

 

The one thing that unites them all is that as long as we were winning games, the criticism stopped and they were apparently the best manager in the league. When we start losing. it begins again, and so it will be until the end of recorded time.

COYR.

Some truth there Dave, but just one thing -  you seem to be discounting the possibility that LJ will be here until the end of recorded time. :whistle2:

Edited by Nogbad the Bad
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Taz said:

I never liked him as a player, for me he never did a lot. Rarely was a standout player, but on the other hand, rarely had a complete stinker. For me was a very average player, and some of the stick he got then, was uncalled for and was only because of who the manager was. I agree that some people don't like him for the same reasons, and never will.

As a coach/manager, I was sceptical on his appointment, but over time he did win me over. He has done a decent job, and we have improved every season. The runs and his comments/criticism of certain players have become tedious though, along with the crap football we are currently playing. I've now gone back on my opinion of him, and think it's time for him to go. 

Currently there seems to be a few groups of supporters:

Group 1: Hate LJ, have never liked him and never will. He will never do anything to win them over, and is the devil incarnate.

Group 2: The group I find myself in - didn't like him (or were indifferent towards him), did like him, now don't.

Group 3: Love LJ and are firmly in the "get behind him and he will take us into the Premiership" brigade. He is the longterm appointment, and won't be going anywhere.

Currently I think the fanbase is split into the 3 categories above. I don't honestly think that the board are even contemplating his position at the moment, and that's what is irking group 1, and possibly some of group 2.

Personally whilst we are still within touching distance of this season's target (playoffs), I don't think he's going anywhere. Does the board take action now to give someone new a chance whilst we are still within touching distance, and in an open transfer window, or leave it until later and make do with LJ's squad? I don't honestly think that they know 100% what they want to do (as a collective group). Of course we all know that SL/JL will make the final decision over that anyway, regardless of whether they agree with the majority of the board or not.

I think the only way he will leave any time soon, is if another club wants to take a chance on him, and that's why he has such a long contract - to protect the club and it's "asset". Currently though, I very much doubt anyone will want to take him on during one of his runs which he has become famous for. Even the Quest team call him streaky Lee!!

I'm currently of the opinion that nothing is going to change, and we will just plod along until Lee finds a combination of things to work again. We'll see if we make the playoffs, and if we don't then he will be sacked. If we do make it, then success or not, we will "go again" next season with him at the helm.

With Pulis, many hated him. Wilson, and Johnson Snr were given time, and most fans agreed that that was the right thing to do, and were disposed of when the time was right. Millen, Tinnion and Cotterill had ran their course, and most again agreed they had to go when they did. O'Driscoll and Mcinnes, again the time was right, although some will say had their work cut out from day 1 with the constraints they had at the time. SOD is part of the reason we have the system we currently do though....

I'm not sure that in recent memory one man has divided the fan base so much as Johnson Jnr. The arguments I feel, will go on and on long until after he goes.

I agree on your 3 groups. And I’ll tell you for sure, there are lots in Group 1. 
 

But also there is a group between 2 and 3. 
 

Many will have no pre-supposed opinion of him and will judge him on what he does as a manger. 
Group 2b is those who couldn’t care less how he was perceived as a player. 
I am in this group. I was happy to get behind him. I have continued to be happy with him as he has improved us each year. I am not in a blind love for him and will always fairly critique him and if I feel he can take us no further I will call him out. He’s certainly not untouchable for those of us in Group 2b. 

So I think your jump from 2 to 3 is quite extreme and misses out a large portion of our fanbase who are happy to let this bad spell ride and see how he reacts, and perhaps we’ll make a judgement on him at the end of the season. 
Just because I don’t want him sacked now doesn’t mean I love him and think he can do no wrong. He has plenty to still prove, but he’s earned the right to have time to fix it. 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, reddogkev said:

Honestly, I doubt Lee's position is even being considered by anybody at the club.

The continued talk about the poor standard of football is of course subjective, and isn't continually as bad as people would have you believe (although I didn't go to Millwall, Blackburn or Brentford home games as my funds were at an all time low).

And as things stand we are still play-off candidates.  If we get our form back, it is reasonable to suggest we could win 2 of the next 3 games, and be right up in the mix.

Unless City start getting hammered every week, I cannot see that Lee will be at risk this season.

TBF we've had a few so far this season

0-5 Palace

1-3 Leeds

0-3 Luton

1-4 WBA

0-4 Brentford

Not to mention we conceded 3 goals to Forest Green and seem to find it difficult not to regularly concede 2 goals per game. Personally I think he has 2 games to turn it around Wigan and Barnsley.......has to now be 6 points or bust.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I liked Lee Johnson as a player. Tidy. Worked hard. Seemed to know his limitations and make the most of the talent he had. A lot to be admired in that. I was surprised that he was appointed manager but prepared to give him a chance. In my opinion he’s had it. I’m afraid that arguments that those criticising Lee’s managerial performance must have some other agenda rather let him off the hook.
 

I simply can’t understand what people see in him. And I rarely read anything on here from his admirers that leaves me any the wiser. Occasionally a contributor will put his retention in the context of some wider long term strategy - and that’s reassuring, and my thanks to those who take the time - but why a rookie manager with a very limited track record is the man to implement it beats me. 
 

 

Edited by Red Exile
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

TBF we've had a few so far this season

0-5 Palace

1-3 Leeds

0-3 Luton

1-4 WBA

0-4 Brentford

Not to mention we conceded 3 goals to Forest Green and seem to find it difficult not to regularly concede 2 goals per game. Personally I think he has 2 games to turn it around Wigan and Barnsley.......has to now be 6 points or bust.

But, prior to Luton, we’d gone something like 90+ games where we’d not lost by more than 2. 
Obviously it’s now happened twice more at WBA and with 10 v Brentford, but for 2 years we’ve been an incredibly competitive team, not getting hammered and always being ‘in’ a game. 
Add to that our rather incredible away record in 2019 and I think it’s a bit early to be saying he’s got 2 games. 
 

For what it’s worth, I have a sneaky feeling that Mark Ashton wants him out. But SL will rightly allow him the time he’s earned. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Harry said:

With all due respect Noggers (and believe me, I like you as a contributor on this forum) in this case you have your head in the clouds. 
There are lots of fans who have always and will always dislike LJ purely based on their opinion of him when he was a player here. 

I know that Harry ( love you too btw) :hug: but I simply don't see that as such an extra bug bear for him as you do. It's a peculiar situation - unique with him being ex- managers' son as well as ex-player - but if a few have never liked him for that it doesn't affect things massively.

Others may even give him extra leeway, and stay more behind him than they might be another manager, for the exact same reasons.

Anyway, the present criticism and discontent is completely justified imo. whatever the basis behind it.

I would add I have not called for his head for a long time ( after that PNE game, absolutely) and am not sure what's for the best. Being a stable mid table Championship club aiming to go higher is fine by me on paper if the football on offer is regularly good enough to make supporting the club enjoyable, and of course the next managerial appointment would have to be a good one to make change worthwhile, and I'm far from convinced that would happen.

Siting through it though while LJ continues his seemingly inexhaustible learning curve, and continues these awful deflating runs, may not be possible for me next season if this carries on, and not wanting to go down the Gate would be a massive blow to me as an individual as being at AG just about every week has been a constant part of my life for as long as I can remember.

Something has to change - it may well be LJ going would be for the best - or if that's not going to happen, he has to hugely increase the enjoyment and entertainment factor to make a ST worthwhile, and find some consistency of performance from his team.

Every club goes stale and needs a kick-start now and again, I think we've reached that point ar BCFC.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m in the group that it doesn’t matter what we say or do or think, the board have made their decision to stick with Lee, and so our opinions at this stage won’t make one iota of difference and so think we just have to accept that, whether we like it or not. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Harry said:

I agree on your 3 groups. And I’ll tell you for sure, there are lots in Group 1. 
 

But also there is a group between 2 and 3. 
 

Many will have no pre-supposed opinion of him and will judge him on what he does as a manger. 
Group 2b is those who couldn’t care less how he was perceived as a player. 
I am in this group. I was happy to get behind him. I have continued to be happy with him as he has improved us each year. I am not in a blind love for him and will always fairly critique him and if I feel he can take us no further I will call him out. He’s certainly not untouchable for those of us in Group 2b. 

So I think your jump from 2 to 3 is quite extreme and misses out a large portion of our fanbase who are happy to let this bad spell ride and see how he reacts, and perhaps we’ll make a judgement on him at the end of the season. 
Just because I don’t want him sacked now doesn’t mean I love him and think he can do no wrong. He has plenty to still prove, but he’s earned the right to have time to fix it. 

I’d go with this, and I think the majority are in group 2b.

As a player, I thought LJ was decent but more importantly fit the system. Without going over old ground, I actually thought his injury was one of the big reasons auto slipped away - not because he was a fantastic footballer, but because he was better in the way we played than Nick Carle (there’s a wider lesson here - best eleven don’t make the best team and I think as a fanbase we struggle with that, and bizarrely I think Lee is currently as well),

I’m in 2b with Lee as a manager. I certainly don’t love him, I certainly don’t dislike him. What I see is a manager who when you cut through all the corporate bollocks actually talks a lot of sense (this is even historic - the Kodjia piece about not being mature was correct and actually chimed with the forum opinion re offsides, it was just said in a different way). I see a heck of a lot of potential in him and think he does study/knows the game - I think he’s not got out of the trying to be too clever or overthinking phase though, and I wonder how that works with communication to the players.

I’m probably a bit further down than Harry in that I think he should probably go now, but I also wouldn’t hugely object to him having the season as we’re not going to go down. I think the frustration really stems from this season feeling like a missed opportunity bearing in mind both our FFP status and the transitional nature of Boro/Derby etc and although we’ll probably end up stagnating, that feels short of the potential 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Dollymarie said:

I’m in the group that it doesn’t matter what we say or do or think, the board have made their decision to stick with Lee, and so our opinions at this stage won’t make one iota of difference and so think we just have to accept that, whether we like it or not. 

Happy new year dolly haven’t seen you post fir a long time x

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Harry said:

But, prior to Luton, we’d gone something like 90+ games where we’d not lost by more than 2. 
Obviously it’s now happened twice more at WBA and with 10 v Brentford, but for 2 years we’ve been an incredibly competitive team, not getting hammered and always being ‘in’ a game. 
Add to that our rather incredible away record in 2019 and I think it’s a bit early to be saying he’s got 2 games. 
 

For what it’s worth, I have a sneaky feeling that Mark Ashton wants him out. But SL will rightly allow him the time he’s earned. 

I also get the impression that MA will do anything to save his own skin. Just my impression, mind. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I liked Lee Johnson as a player. Tidy. Worked hard. Seemed to know his limitations and make the most of the talent he had. A lot to be admired in that. I was surprised that he was appointed manager but prepared to give him a chance. In my opinion he’s had it. I’m afraid that arguments that those criticising Lee’s managerial performance must have done other agenda rather let him off the hook.
 

I simply can’t understand what people see in him. And I rarely read anything on here from his admirers that leaves me any the wiser. Occasionally a contributor will put his retention in the context of some wider long term strategy - and that’s reassuring, and my thanks to those who take the time - but why a rookie manager with a very limited track record is the man to implement it beats me. 
 

 

Indeed, his pre- City managerial record surely didn't qualify him for the City job in normal circumstances, and his inconsistency and dreadful runs were already apparent at his previous posts.

We know SL saw something in him, and he was always going to get the City job one day - fair enough - but that being the case it seems to me his appointment came 5 years too early.

He should have had a far longer learning curve elsewhere, built up a decent managerial CV with some lower league success, and then no one could argue he wasn't justifiably rewarded when he was appointed to the top job at AG.

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Indeed, his pre- City managerial record surely didn't qualify him for the City job in normal circumstances, and his inconsistency and dreadful runs were already apparent at his previous posts.

We know SL saw something in him, and he was always going to get the City job one day - fair enough - but that being the case it seems to me his appointment came 5 years too early.

He should have had a far longer learning curve elsewhere, built up a decent managerial CV with some lower league success, and then no one could argue he wasn't justifiably rewarded when he was appointed to the top job at AG.

 

 

That is exactly what I think. Glad it’s not just me! 

Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Indeed. Going a step further, contrary to what some posters have said on here, I don't really buy into the idea there were a significant number of posters who were anti-Cotts.

Oh, there most certainly were, including 9 or 10 of the most prominent posters on here at the time, and most of them didn't ever give him credit or change their minds.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, the football is miserable at the moment and that is unacceptable to those of us who pay out quite a bit of money to see them play. But there are some mitigating factors that don't seem to get much discussion.

  • We've sold our best players for the last 2 seasons. Yes we have had expensive replacements but trying to find a new system to fit them into can take quite a while. After all, look at Southampton over the past few years who went through a similar trauma.
  • LJ has quite a lot of backroom staff who should be providing him with advice about the current problems with the team. Obviously somethings not right there.

At the start of the season I thought we'd finish mid-table due to all the changes to the squad in the summer. We are on track to do that but due to the performances I'm starting to think that staleness has crept in and that a change could well be needed. If performances improve over the next month then I'd accept I was wrong.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Harry said:

I said in my previous post that there is a significant minority of fans who didn’t like LJ as a player. I also commented therein that some of that dislike does go as far as hatred - only some. 
I’ve seen it. You may be lucky enough not to have encountered it, but I’ve seen it. 

I don't like him Harry, but I daresay there were Man U and Arsenal fans who didn't like their great managers as personalities but the football on show more than compensated . I was disappointed when he was recruited as I didn't think he deserved the job  but was genuinely happy for him to succeed.

Lee Johnson so far as i'm concerned stole a living here as a player, as you acknowledge  is a view held by many, although the minority/majority debate is moot. The fact that he has survived as a coach here, when the odds are that nobody else would have done so, reaffirms his status as bullet proof, and people simply don't like that, so when drab football and apparently random squad building occurs, combined with nonsensical post match comments the resentment resurfaces.

If he delieved consistently, his personality and past history at the club would im sure be disregraded, but it aint happening, so him and the owner have to take it on the chin until he performs as the owner would demand any other head coach would.

Edited by Natchfever
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I liked Lee Johnson as a player. Tidy. Worked hard. Seemed to know his limitations and make the most of the talent he had. A lot to be admired in that. I was surprised that he was appointed manager but prepared to give him a chance. In my opinion he’s had it. I’m afraid that arguments that those criticising Lee’s managerial performance must have some other agenda rather let him off the hook.
 

I simply can’t understand what people see in him. And I rarely read anything on here from his admirers that leaves me any the wiser. Occasionally a contributor will put his retention in the context of some wider long term strategy - and that’s reassuring, and my thanks to those who take the time - but why a rookie manager with a very limited track record is the man to implement it beats me. 
 

 

I’ve said before I have no prejudice re his time as a player as a only saw him play 45 minutes.

Imho, if we look objectively at his results, he’s mid-top half of the table. However he tends to get them in “streaks”. Good runs versus poor runs. I think that leads the fan base to highs and lows too. If he consistently won 4, drew 3/4, lost 3/4, averaging 1.45 points per game (which is how each of his runs end up averaging out), the fan base would have something to be common on. Yet currently the backers highlight the good runs, the non-backers the bad runs.

This has been accentuated by home v away results / performances. Currently both home and away we are w5, d4, l4, for once equality!!! As a fan base those homers like me (albeit watching Robinstv or red button away) have missed some cracking away performances.

Do that’s the results side of things. Boom and Bust, which created easy arguments either side of the fence.

The other side is “personality”.  I’ve met Lee a number of times away from the world of football (to some extent) at Charlton Farm. He is a lovely, caring bloke, interested in the kids and families.

As a football person, I genuinely feel his heart is in absolutely the right place, and he loves Bristol City and is proud to be our manager.  There’s a but coming!

But I feel he communicates inconsistently (especially with his language). Someone said they hate his pre-match stuff and like his post-match. I’m the opposite. I love the detail pre-match (I see the plan, the reflection of previous game given a bit of time rather than straight after), but post-match often Leave me a bit cold. They don’t correlate closely to the game or focussed on individual things rather than the overall. It’s a bit like the selfish Striker being asked “How did you get on today?”, replying “I scored”, but not telling you the team lost 6-1.  The good things tend to be about how he coached that specifically during the week, the bad about how individuals made a mistake or didn’t carry out the plan, highlighting individuals, usually the younger ones, or deflecting with box entries or clutch  

I don’t think he should carry the can for every defeat either.  I just think he wants to say too much which in turn leads him to saying things he shouldn’t whilst he’s thinks on his feet.

I believe this is an area where he alienates those non-backers.  It appears dis-honest, when in some cases it’s too honest (and open), but rarely (not always) giving them right people the credit or discredit.

Its a tough job, he isn’t doing it badly.  But there are elements to improve, some that have been reoccurring throughout his 4 years. That grates me and I’m a 2.b!!!  If you’re a 1. You won’t get beyond that.

Sack him now? Nope.  I don’t think that is deserving of his overall job done.

Expect the fan base to still be divided? Yep

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Taz said:

 

Currently there seems to be a few groups of supporters:

Group 1: Hate LJ, have never liked him and never will. He will never do anything to win them over, and is the devil incarnate.

Group 2: The group I find myself in - didn't like him (or were indifferent towards him), did like him, now don't.

Group 3: Love LJ and are firmly in the "get behind him and he will take us into the Premiership" brigade. He is the longterm appointment, and won't be going anywhere.

 

I'm in group 2.5

I wouldn't be surprised if he's sacked if he doesn't turn it round in the next 3 or 4 games and wouldn't be bothered if he was as there are some factors which would merit it. But I also wouldn't be suprised if he's given till the end of the season and wouldn't be bothered by that either as there are some factors which also merit that.

All these emotional words such as  "like" or "hate" should be confined to the play ground imo. He is either good at his job or indifferent or poor - I don't see the need for the personal stuff and the abuse, its childish and offensive. Its a minority which really should grow up and get some perspective in their lives.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

Indeed. Going a step further, contrary to what some posters have said on here, I don't really buy into the idea there were a significant number of posters who were anti-Cotts.

A lot of people opposed his appointment at the time and yes, there were a lot of people who felt he was out of his depth in the Championship OR alternatively that he allowed his frustrations with the board to impact on our results on the pitch but there were, at most, one or two posters on here who refused to give him credit during our promotion season and they were consistently told they were talking nonsense by everyone else on here. I think a lot of the posters who wanted to stick with Cotts remember the stick Cotts got in his last few months, which as divisive a time as I have known it on these boards, but Cotts wasn't consistently getting criticism when we were winning. It was only when we struggled in the Championship that things got divisive.

On the flipside, I think LJ has found it a lot harder to win fans over. I think part of that reason is down to his personality. Cotts was passionate and temperamental but in a way that people could relate to. He was also plain speaking and a bit like Sam Allardyce in the sense that his rough and readyness as an individual sometimes meant people didn't realise quite how much he analysed the game and how good a tactical coach he was. 

LJ on the other hand frequently comes across as arrogant and clearly wants to be seen as a great tactical thinker, which sets himself up for a fall when his limitations are exposed. And I do think his manner and use of managerial speak does make it hard for a lot of people to like or empathise with him. I also think he has struggled to win over a section of fans that didn't think Cotts should have gone in the first place and resent the fact that LJ has been backed in a way that didn't seem to happen under Cotterill.

But, whilst I fear he has taken us as far he can, the reality is that our results and finishes in his tenure place him amongst the more successful managers we have had in the last 30 years. And I do think the idea that we've succeeded in spite of the manager is a bit of nonsense given how many times we've struggled even when we've invested substantially in the team in the past. And I think that is the issue for me. When people say our inconsistent form is unacceptable, we're not getting the best out of the players, we've not built on the League Cup season etc. then I think that is utterly fair criticism. But when people start refusing to give LJ the credit for even the bits that have gone well over the past three years then that is where it feels based way more in a personal vendetta than valid criticism. 

Don't agree with the last paragraph but everything before it is a very perceptive analysis, and indeed reflects most of my feelings.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Harry said:

With all due respect Noggers (and believe me, I like you as a contributor on this forum) in this case you have your head in the clouds. 
There are lots of fans who have always and will always dislike LJ purely based on their opinion of him when he was a player here. 

Obviously I am an example of someone who didn't rate Johnson as a player and also do not think he is up to it as manager.

Unless you can reach into my head better than me, you are wrong mate.

Firstly, I don't dislike Johnson as a person, at all. I genuinely think that outside of football he's a nice chap, its just that when he open his mouth about football it's almost like he's auditioning for a part playing David Brent.

Specifically I don't think Johnson should be manager because:

1. He did nothing to warrant manager before coming here.
2. He inherited some very good players which have been sold for a lot of money, most of which he has been allowed to re-invest, yet 8 transfer windows into a tenure which at the beginning Lansdown said he wanted Premiership football and Johnson said he needed 3 windows, we look very unlikely to achieve the Premiership football which the owner himself defined as success. 
3. I don't think he's a natural leader.
4. The football is very boring and negative.
5. As ridiculous as it may sound, given that its gone, was a long time a go and nothing can be done about it, I do resent that Cotterill was not given the opportunity of the transfer window of 4 years ago to remedy things at that time. He had earned that right far more than any notion that Johnson has earned the right to continue as manager now.

None of those things are linked to my opinion of Johnson as a player.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Yep, but all you're doing is giving is a reason why a few fans were/are against him.

There are reasons why every managerial appointment at every club divides supporters.

Many others were against him because they simply saw him as a dreadful appointment who would never have got the job at another Championship club at the time.

Most of either opinion would make their feelings known at the beginning but then judge him on the job he does.

As opposed to Cotterill who never got any credit from some despite his undoubted triumphs.

I didn't really have any preconceived feelings about LJ when he arrived simply because I hardly knew him as a player having lived abroad during his playing career here. I saw half a dozen games a season and he probably didn't play in all of them, hardly enough to form a dislike.

My opinion was based on a thorough search through his playing and managerial career. I formed the opinion that he had played a significant portion of his career for his father. His managerial career was so short, without any hint of winning a trophy.

I was afraid that most of his experience was gained from his father. A narrow experience, hardly rounded by playing with plenty of managers or even one very successful one.

So four years on, I still see a manager who is too cautious, cannot decide on a settled pattern/style of play and a very demoralising habit of publicly criticising individual members of the team.

I do not hate him. I believe that we could find better.

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, NickJ said:

Obviously I am an example of someone who didn't rate Johnson as a player and also do not think he is up to it as manager.

Unless you can reach into my head better than me, you are wrong mate.

Firstly, I don't dislike Johnson as a person, at all. I genuinely think that outside of football he's a nice chap, its just that when he open his mouth about football it's almost like he's auditioning for a part playing David Brent.

Specifically I don't think Johnson should be manager because:

1. He did nothing to warrant manager before coming here.
2. He inherited some very good players which have been sold for a lot of money, most of which he has been allowed to re-invest, yet 8 transfer windows into a tenure which at the beginning Lansdown said he wanted Premiership football and Johnson said he needed 3 windows, we look very unlikely to achieve the Premiership football which the owner himself defined as success. 
3. I don't think he's a natural leader.
4. The football is very boring and negative.
5. As ridiculous as it may sound, given that its gone, was a long time a go and nothing can be done about it, I do resent that Cotterill was not given the opportunity of the transfer window of 4 years ago to remedy things at that time. He had earned that right far more than any notion that Johnson has earned the right to continue as manager now.

None of those things are linked to my opinion of Johnson as a player.

Bang on.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dave L said:

The truth is that ever since the internet became a thing, every single City manager has been pilloried on this and similar forums, sometimes justifiably, sometimes for the most bizarre reasons, some close to the mark, some totally made up, often by people smarting from a recent defeat and fuelled by too many ciders. Allegedly ....

John Ward: Ran out of ideas.

Benny Lennartsson; Didn't know English football. Stupid cap. 

Tony Pulis: Ex Gas. Welsh. Boring football.

Tony Fawthrop etc: Who?

Danny Wilson: Presided over a drinking culture. Underachiever.

Brian Tinnion: The cheap option. Inexperienced.

Gary Johnson: Conference manager. Lost the dressing room.

Steve Coppell: Should have refused to sign David James after being forced to do so, at gunpoint, by SL.

Keith Millen: The even cheaper than Tinnion option.

Derek McInnes: Inexperienced in England. Over reliance on Scottish players.

Sean O'Driscoll: Borderline personality disorder. Sniffed a lot.

Steve Cotterill: Alleged hoof ball merchant. Stroppy. Used wet look hair gel.

Lee Johnson: Gary's son. Small in stature. Uses unfamiliar words.

The one thing that unites them all is that as long as we were winning games, the criticism stopped and they were apparently the best manager in the league. When we start losing. it begins again, and so it will be until the end of recorded time.

COYR.

They're not unfamiliar words. They're just not used in a familiar order 😋

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, sticks 1969 said:

Happy new year dolly haven’t seen you post fir a long time x

Thanks. I’m always around, just kept busy by fostering and life in general. Still reading OTIB though, even if I’m not posting. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, NickJ said:

Obviously I am an example of someone who didn't rate Johnson as a player and also do not think he is up to it as manager.

Unless you can reach into my head better than me, you are wrong mate.

Firstly, I don't dislike Johnson as a person, at all. I genuinely think that outside of football he's a nice chap, its just that when he open his mouth about football it's almost like he's auditioning for a part playing David Brent.

Specifically I don't think Johnson should be manager because:

1. He did nothing to warrant manager before coming here.
2. He inherited some very good players which have been sold for a lot of money, most of which he has been allowed to re-invest, yet 8 transfer windows into a tenure which at the beginning Lansdown said he wanted Premiership football and Johnson said he needed 3 windows, we look very unlikely to achieve the Premiership football which the owner himself defined as success. 
3. I don't think he's a natural leader.
4. The football is very boring and negative.
5. As ridiculous as it may sound, given that its gone, was a long time a go and nothing can be done about it, I do resent that Cotterill was not given the opportunity of the transfer window of 4 years ago to remedy things at that time. He had earned that right far more than any notion that Johnson has earned the right to continue as manager now.

None of those things are linked to my opinion of Johnson as a player.

This is a really interesting debate with lots of good points being made by great posters on both sides - think it's important to clarify point 2 though. The quote about the three windows was this "Bristol City head coach Lee Johnson says it will "probably take three transfer windows" to shape his squad the way he would like." taken from this article. Johnson did not promise premier league football within 3 windows. 

I also wonder whether it's fair to use small quotes he's made in press conferences, out of context, against him 4 years on. Football changes so quickly in this time and I don't think he'd say something like that now. He still says lots of cliches and silly jargon, but less of that sort of thing.  

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Robbored said:

Who?   :dunno:

Despite the results I never once left AG with that ‘buzz’ after witnessing an impressive City display. I’d leave thinking ‘how the hell did we win that?’........

The only game that I remember fondly from that era was the pray off semi against Palace.

 

21 hours ago, Med/MadHatter said:

That season was the first one after i emigrated to Canada, i was working in northern Alberta and used to have to call the wife to find out the football results, and was always stunned when the results fell for us when we were top of the league with an around 0 goal difference, sadly it all fell away, although the play offs were unbelievable!

Each to their own but I thought the football before Christmas and at home, that combo especially was quite decent.

                    Basso

Orr Carey McCombe McAllister

Sproule Elliott Johnson McIndoe

                     Noble

            Byfield/Trundle

Tactically, Noble behind the striker helped...but technically too. Remember a number of good games before Christmas- some where we had to hang on too of course.

With the arrival of Adebola, we did shift shape more but also we shifted more direct- not a bad Plan B and I wonder if a fully fit Brooker could have got us somewhere between the two styles as he often had fitness issues in his final season or 2.

Put Maynard in that side...with that balance and Noble directly behind, the flexibility for it to pull into a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 etc, and I believe we would have got more goals.

Yeah though, decent side- with some reliable reserves in Wilson, Fontaine, at times Vasko, Skuse, Brooker to name 2. Plus one of Byfield and Trundle as paring them wasn't always the best idea and nor was e.g. Noble in a central 2.

Was an excellent feelgood factor round the ground that season too. Good atmosphere- helped that we had just come up and probably were not to say the least expected to be hitting such heights so soon!

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

This is a really interesting debate with lots of good points being made by great posters on both sides - think it's important to clarify point 2 though. The quote about the three windows was this "Bristol City head coach Lee Johnson says it will "probably take three transfer windows" to shape his squad the way he would like." taken from this article. Johnson did not promise premier league football within 3 windows. 

 

Yes I agree he did say that. To which the obvious next question is:

"once you have had your 3 windows Lee, and have shaped the squad the way you would like it, what is your ambition? Is it to match the club owners stated ambition of promotion to the Premiership?"

Would be a bit weird if the answer to that question was "No".

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Dollymarie said:

I’m in the group that it doesn’t matter what we say or do or think, the board have made their decision to stick with Lee, and so our opinions at this stage won’t make one iota of difference and so think we just have to accept that, whether we like it or not. 

Saying what you think is no bad thing it lets others no how you feel, it may not matter to the board/SL but it does matter to us, to have the freedom to say how you feel. Let them know, do not sit down and shut up.

Disagree about "one iota of difference" discontent will be noticed, maybe ignored but it will be noticed.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, mozo said:

You mean like Bravo Two Zero by Andy McNab which actually improves with every read? 😁

I actually used that very quote when in Ernest Hemingways favourite bar in Cuba (La Bodeguita Del Medio) this Christmas when my Mrs asked me if I've ever read any Hemingway 😀

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...