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STeveOELlis

atmosphere in the dressing room

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From the clickbait rag:

On the atmosphere in the dressing room

To be fair, that’s in-house so I don’t want to give away too much information about what happens after a game.

That's from Jay DaSilva. During the promotion season, player's wouldn't hesitate to discuss how open and positive the dressing room was. I was skeptical when the headlines came out that LJ's lost the dressing room, however I find this answer quite telling 

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4 minutes ago, STeveOELlis said:

From the clickbait rag:

On the atmosphere in the dressing room

To be fair, that’s in-house so I don’t want to give away too much information about what happens after a game.

That's from Jay DaSilva. During the promotion season, player's wouldn't hesitate to discuss how open and positive the dressing room was. I was skeptical when the headlines came out that LJ's lost the dressing room, however I find this answer quite telling 

During the promotion season players rarely commented on it as well

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10 minutes ago, STeveOELlis said:

From the clickbait rag:

On the atmosphere in the dressing room

To be fair, that’s in-house so I don’t want to give away too much information about what happens after a game.

That's from Jay DaSilva. During the promotion season, player's wouldn't hesitate to discuss how open and positive the dressing room was. I was skeptical when the headlines came out that LJ's lost the dressing room, however I find this answer quite telling 

What, in your head, is it telling?

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I have seen teams here that have stopped playing for the manager, this doesn't look like one. The performances have been poor, but I haven't seen a lack of effort, arguments on the pitch or other tell tale signs.

Edited by Port Said Red
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2 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I have seen teams here that have stopped playing for the manager, this doesn't look like one. The performances have been poor, but I haven;t seen a lack of effort, arguments on the pitch or other tell tale signs.

So if it's not lack of effort or a lack of confidence in the manager, then what do you think it might be?  It surely can't be a lack of quality considering the millions we havee spent, so that only leads me to one conclusion.

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29 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

During the promotion season players rarely commented on it as well

Didn't need to really, not only were they all constantly grinning but many openly said the atmosphere in the squad was fantastic.

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7 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

So if it's not lack of effort or a lack of confidence in the manager, then what do you think it might be?  It surely can't be a lack of quality considering the millions we havee spent, so that only leads me to one conclusion.

Teams go in and out of form all the time,  people think all the players are amazing when they are in form and complete shit when they are out of it. 90% of the whole game is self confidence, a bad run can effect that and it becomes cyclical. 

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7 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

So if it's not lack of effort or a lack of confidence in the manager, then what do you think it might be?  It surely can't be a lack of quality considering the millions we havee spent, so that only leads me to one conclusion.

OK Sherlock!........Only one conclusion?  So please be kind enough to enlighten us all with your in depth analysis of what this one conclusion is? 🙃🙃

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So team who won promotion at a canter + cup win at Wembley had a good team atmosphere

Team currently mid table in the championship on a poor run off form getting booed has a quiet/negative atmosphere 

What a shock.

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Is this fair comment from LJ:

For me personally, it doesn’t affect me now. It may have done when I started playing. I’m very philosophical about “noise” because I know how it works.

I know how media have to earn money for their kids, I know how social media works.

We’re talking about a wider society issue - I fear for the children of today because I feel a bullying-type mentality can be constant.

You’ve got to try and help the players be as consistent as possible because I can’t be with every minute of the day.

I know how it affected me as a player and now it’s constant.

But it works both ways: if you’re Player A and you score the winner against Liverpool, you’re the best player for Bristol City - you’re a legend, a hero, we want your babies etc

And six weeks later, you score an own goal or you make a mistake and it’s, “get out of my club”.

We’ve had situations this year where parents of players have been vilified for loving their kids.

Everybody demands instant information, success, knowledge. Everybody wants to get one up on everybody else.

Some people, dare I say it, take pleasure from other people’s failure.

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3 minutes ago, grifty said:

So team who won promotion at a canter + cup win at Wembley had a good team atmosphere

Team currently mid table in the championship on a poor run off form getting booed has a quiet/negative atmosphere 

What a shock.

Exactly. I suspect the atmosphere in the dressing room is unlikely to  be great at the moment. And neither should it be - I'd hope every single player is unhappy about the run we are on and I suspect that there have been conversations about what is going on. But I don't think that tells us anything more than the fact we currently aren't winning games, which we already know.

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51 minutes ago, maxjak said:

OK Sherlock!........Only one conclusion?  So please be kind enough to enlighten us all with your in depth analysis of what this one conclusion is? 🙃🙃

Up to you to make up your own mind.  How many conclusions can you come up with?

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They unfortunate natural consequences of sheep pie consumption has been identified as a prime destroyer of dressing room atmospheric conditions... 

Hence to remedy the situation steps have recently been taken to remove the presence of sheep pies from the entire Ashton Gate site. 

(this is classified information: & officially restricted as 'for your pies only' so mums the word OK 😉)

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13 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Up to you to make up your own mind.  How many conclusions can you come up with?

You sound like a politician`?..................Always answer a question, with another question, rather than an answer.   I'm really not interested in linguistic games 🙃

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8 minutes ago, maxjak said:

You sound like a politician`?..................Always answer a question, with another question, rather than an answer.   I'm really not interested in linguistic games 🙃

Why might that be? 😃

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1 hour ago, mozo said:

Is this fair comment from LJ:

For me personally, it doesn’t affect me now. It may have done when I started playing. I’m very philosophical about “noise” because I know how it works.

I know how media have to earn money for their kids, I know how social media works.

We’re talking about a wider society issue - I fear for the children of today because I feel a bullying-type mentality can be constant.

You’ve got to try and help the players be as consistent as possible because I can’t be with every minute of the day.

I know how it affected me as a player and now it’s constant.

But it works both ways: if you’re Player A and you score the winner against Liverpool, you’re the best player for Bristol City - you’re a legend, a hero, we want your babies etc

And six weeks later, you score an own goal or you make a mistake and it’s, “get out of my club”.

We’ve had situations this year where parents of players have been vilified for loving their kids.

Everybody demands instant information, success, knowledge. Everybody wants to get one up on everybody else.

Some people, dare I say it, take pleasure from other people’s failure.

This rings a bell somehow....

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What some people read into simple comments is unbelievable and is worse than than the nonsense I experienced doing A-level English Lit over the significance of 'Boom' in A Passage to India. 

Edited by RoystonFoote'snephew
Correcting predictive text error

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36 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

What some people read into simple comments is unbelievable and is worse than than the nonsense I experienced doing A-level English Lit over the significance of 'Boom Boom Shake the Room' in A Passage to India. 

 

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3 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

I have seen teams here that have stopped playing for the manager, this doesn't look like one. The performances have been poor, but I haven't seen a lack of effort, arguments on the pitch or other tell tale signs.

You didn't go to Charlton boxing day then or the f.a cup game against Shrewsbury. Open your eye's FFS. 

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1 hour ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

What some people read into simple comments is unbelievable and is worse than than the nonsense I experienced doing A-level English Lit over the significance of 'Boom' in A Passage to India. 

I went to The Passage To India in Nailsworth, for a Chicken Madras. Definitely a Boom in the shitter, the next day.

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1 hour ago, Allwaysred said:

You didn't go to Charlton boxing day then or the f.a cup game against Shrewsbury. Open your eye's FFS. 

**** you. You just keep seeing what you want to see to match your agenda.

Edited by Port Said Red
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1 hour ago, Allwaysred said:

You didn't go to Charlton boxing day then or the f.a cup game against Shrewsbury. Open your eye's FFS. 

I kinda understand where your coming from the goals we conceded at charlton was like they didnt have faith in him and shrewsbury same we scored and some players just clapped and walked back 

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4 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

Atmosphere in the dressing room? Sounds like a splendid idea. 

 

Reckon perhaps this is more the current vibe? 

 

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Wouldn't recommend it, Atmosphere was quite a scary board game, would put the fear of God into Massengo and Brownhill when faced with the decaying face of the Gatekeeper, that's for sure.

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7 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

I have seen teams here that have stopped playing for the manager, this doesn't look like one. The performances have been poor, but I haven't seen a lack of effort, arguments on the pitch or other tell tale signs.

Tell tale signs, like ballooning a penalty 4 miles over the bar against Burton in an attempt to get the manager sacked? No one can tell me otherwise on that. No one can miss a penalty that badly.

 

I agree though, haven’t seen any lack of effort just a lack of ideas from players and manager 

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16 minutes ago, You Do The Dziekanowski said:

Tell tale signs, like ballooning a penalty 4 miles over the bar against Burton in an attempt to get the manager sacked? No one can tell me otherwise on that. No one can miss a penalty that badly.

 

I agree though, haven’t seen any lack of effort just a lack of ideas from players and manager 

Having hit the bar from 30 yards in the first minute.  You certainly got the unexpected from him.

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6 hours ago, Allwaysred said:

You didn't go to Charlton boxing day then or the f.a cup game against Shrewsbury. Open your eye's FFS. 

Think it's you that needs to open your eyes.

There is certainly not a lack of effort or will.

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10 hours ago, reddogkev said:

Wouldn't recommend it, Atmosphere was quite a scary board game, would put the fear of God into Massengo and Brownhill when faced with the decaying face of the Gatekeeper, that's for sure.

Oh ye remember that game ,played it a lot when the kids were little , was scary .

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17 hours ago, Up The City! said:

Think it's you that needs to open your eyes.

There is certainly not a lack of effort or will.

Are you joking?? So the collapse at Charlton and AV argument with Kalas when 3rd went in at LJ total blank of all at the end, Ashely Williams rash tackles v Brentford is all tale tell signs from an international all is not rosey as he went straight down tunnel. KP dropped on several occasions even though he was the missing link to unlock defences, and more importantly the 2nd half performance v Shrewsbury with no reaction what so ever..... you only have to look at Scott Murray to see it's not a happy camp but you obviously have the same DND JOHNSON is looking for... Wake up.

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5 minutes ago, Allwaysred said:

Are you joking?? So the collapse at Charlton and AV argument with Kalas when 3rd went in at LJ total blank of all at the end, Ashely Williams rash tackles v Brentford is all tale tell signs from an international all is not rosey as he went straight down tunnel. KP dropped on several occasions even though he was the missing link to unlock defences, and more importantly the 2nd half performance v Shrewsbury with no reaction what so ever..... you only have to look at Scott Murray to see it's not a happy camp but you obviously have the same DND JOHNSON is looking for... Wake up.

I went to both the games you mention. Not sure I saw an unwillingness to try, plenty of fear on the ball, some bad defensive mistakes but I don’t think this was not trying, just bad play and lack of confidence, some tactical mistakes too. I don’t know what’s going on in the dressing room of course, wouldn’t pretend to, think JD comment would be mirrored at lots of clubs

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1 minute ago, Out of his pie crust said:

I went to both the games you mention. Not sure I saw an unwillingness to try, plenty of fear on the ball, some bad defensive mistakes but I don’t think this was not trying, just bad play and lack of confidence, some tactical mistakes too. I don’t know what’s going on in the dressing room of course, wouldn’t pretend to, think JD comment would be mirrored at lots of clubs

And everything you just mentioned has been going on season after season with different players same mistakes same lack of confidence and tactical mistakes. This all comes from LJ and I feel through time certain players with strong personalities who don't agree with his ethos start to challenge it and either get dropped completely or are not Performing to their full capacity which is exactly what your seeing now... as others have mentioned it's gone stale and a new vision and focus needs to happen but we certainly won't get it from LJ & Co.

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25 minutes ago, Allwaysred said:

Are you joking?? So the collapse at Charlton and AV argument with Kalas when 3rd went in at LJ total blank of all at the end, Ashely Williams rash tackles v Brentford is all tale tell signs from an international all is not rosey as he went straight down tunnel. KP dropped on several occasions even though he was the missing link to unlock defences, and more importantly the 2nd half performance v Shrewsbury with no reaction what so ever..... you only have to look at Scott Murray to see it's not a happy camp but you obviously have the same DND JOHNSON is looking for... Wake up.

Experienced international but also an aging one.

More susceptible to pace, you could see if watching his straight red that whether he's got the pace to play in a highish line anymore...is questionable. He was scrambling back and it was mistimed badly- last man, straight red.

Think there are useful examples but his diminishing pace and agility here might have something to do with him cleaning out Watkins. Watch back from 1:49 on the City highlights, so slow over the ground.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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2 hours ago, Allwaysred said:

And everything you just mentioned has been going on season after season with different players same mistakes same lack of confidence and tactical mistakes. This all comes from LJ and I feel through time certain players with strong personalities who don't agree with his ethos start to challenge it and either get dropped completely or are not Performing to their full capacity which is exactly what your seeing now... as others have mentioned it's gone stale and a new vision and focus needs to happen but we certainly won't get it from LJ & Co.

Fair points, there have been some reasonably decent parts as well though in balance. Certainly feel like there’s now a lack of spark, whether a new manager will change that don’t know, personally would give him to end of season... 7th or better stay , below that I’d seriously consider a change. But got eyes open that change might not necessarily mean playoffs/promotion/better football. Things might get worse before they get better. That said, as I bore the kids with, in a long period supporting a team, these periods where things are going bad make the good times feel better imo.

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2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Experienced international but also an aging one.

More susceptible to pace, you could see if watching his straight red that whether he's got the pace to play in a highish line anymore...is questionable. He was scrambling back and it was mistimed badly- last man, straight red.

Think there are useful examples but his diminishing pace and agility here might have something to do with him cleaning out Watkins. Watch back from 1:49 on the City highlights, so slow over the ground.

LJ brought Williams in at 36 knowing he hadn't played much football for months so always a risk but would you have him in week in week out as 1st choice especially against Brentford knowing there flowing fast pace?? Accident waiting to happen so from my view he should be used as a back up not a starter so another area and decision that is questionable by LJ and Co. Apart from Bentley, Kalas, Jay we have recruited poorly and still lacking pivotal key area's 2/3 years on which simply isn't good enough we're a bang average team with no leader on it or off it... 

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6 minutes ago, Allwaysred said:

LJ brought Williams in at 36 knowing he hadn't played much football for months so always a risk but would you have him in week in week out as 1st choice especially against Brentford knowing there flowing fast pace?? Accident waiting to happen so from my view he should be used as a back up not a starter so another area and decision that is questionable by LJ

Thank you...my feelings exactly.

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38 minutes ago, Allwaysred said:

LJ brought Williams in at 36 knowing he hadn't played much football for months so always a risk but would you have him in week in week out as 1st choice especially against Brentford knowing there flowing fast pace?? Accident waiting to happen so from my view he should be used as a back up not a starter so another area and decision that is questionable by LJ and Co. Apart from Bentley, Kalas, Jay we have recruited poorly and still lacking pivotal key area's 2/3 years on which simply isn't good enough we're a bang average team with no leader on it or off it... 

At the time of Williams joining City there was a CB crisis and he happened to be OOC.........What else could LJ do?..............:dunno:

Obviously AW at 36 doesn’t have the pace he might have had but he is vastly experienced having played the majority of his career in the PL and of course internationals.

The guy is a leader.

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17 minutes ago, Allwaysred said:

LJ brought Williams in at 36 knowing he hadn't played much football for months so always a risk but would you have him in week in week out as 1st choice especially against Brentford knowing there flowing fast pace?? Accident waiting to happen so from my view he should be used as a back up not a starter so another area and decision that is questionable by LJ and Co. Apart from Bentley, Kalas, Jay we have recruited poorly and still lacking pivotal key area's 2/3 years on which simply isn't good enough we're a bang average team with no leader on it or off it... 

Part of the problem for me is (as an outsider looking in) is lack of clarity / principles in selection.  That comes into both system selection and player selection.

There appears to be inconsistency in selection based on performance (good and bad).  Some players dropped for 1 bad / ineffective game, others keep playing irrespective.  Sometimes you wonder if the system change is to facilitate dropping or retaining a player rather than having to make a tough or unpopular decision by playing a system.

I accept it’s always gonna be subjective, and we won’t always agree with the head-coach (or each other), but I do think he lacks courage in his convictions.  He’s always gonna have someone he trusts more in a split decision, that’s fair enough.

As a result, the frequency and volume of changes must make it very difficult for him to evaluate whether any change was truly successful or not, because it’s never given enough time to evaluate properly.  I wrote 18 months ago about placebo affect, but in hindsight I think it’s more a case of not knowing what works and what doesn’t because the baby is thrown out with the bath water too quickly.  Has he noticed that Hunt’s performances look better with Watkins in front of him (for example)?  Would Watkins be a catalyst for Pereira to be more settled?  I dunno, because he’s decided to play Watkins up top.

Some players being called world-beaters one game, dropped the next.  No wonder some players look devoid of confidence.  He needs to tone things down a bit, his comments are boom and bust, like our runs.

For me this is the area he needs to improve the greatest.

Players will accept (to an extent) being out of the side if they know why or see someone playing better in their position.  If the team is winning, you have to grin and bear it.  If it’s losing, then you need there to be a carrot, e.g. you’ll get a chance because the team isn’t functioning, or there will be rotation to keep players fresh for the benefit of the team overall.  When teams are losing, managers often go back to basics, lets make ourselves tough to beat, grind out a 0-0.  We rarely do that.  It’s usually about how can we outsmart the opposition with something clever, which has never been tried before.

This sounds like an LJ bashing - it’s not per se.  It’s a reflection that in reality when results were going well, his team selections and system changes were glossed over.  I remember thinking several starting 532s being changed to 442s mid-game with little evidence of why or impact, and vice-versa 442 to 532.  I don’t care what you say, the likes of Taylor Moore (although delighted to be getting the minutes he has) will be right cheesed off being subbed after 45 minutes, ditto the likes of Eliasson coming on at h-t to change things.  Why not give him the start in that case.

I do think that if you look at the players recruited in the summer, we’ve seen some performances that make you think this squad is better than we’ve had, but those same players now off-form, making you question recruitment.  That to me boils back down to inconsistency in areas I’ve written above.

The season is on a bit of a knife edge.  It’s recoverable, but that needs identification and acceptance of the problems.  Failure to do so, will ultimately cost his job.  If he can react the right way, he has a squad that deliver.  I hope he does....but I’m waiting to be convinced.

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2 hours ago, Allwaysred said:

LJ brought Williams in at 36 knowing he hadn't played much football for months so always a risk but would you have him in week in week out as 1st choice especially against Brentford knowing there flowing fast pace?? Accident waiting to happen so from my view he should be used as a back up not a starter so another area and decision that is questionable by LJ and Co. Apart from Bentley, Kalas, Jay we have recruited poorly and still lacking pivotal key area's 2/3 years on which simply isn't good enough we're a bang average team with no leader on it or off it... 

I’m of an era when I saw the likes of Norman Hunter and Jo Jordan on their way down from what is now the Premier League.

Off the pace (if they ever had it!!) but with intelligence and experience way above and beyond their Championship piers and rivals.

Sadly something that we will never see again, as the Premiership “gods” have no need to play out their careers in the lower leagues, just to make a living.

So back to the topic, Williams was probably a good punt in today's market, but as you rightly question, should he be a first choice?

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9 hours ago, Allwaysred said:

LJ brought Williams in at 36 knowing he hadn't played much football for months so always a risk but would you have him in week in week out as 1st choice especially against Brentford knowing there flowing fast pace?? Accident waiting to happen so from my view he should be used as a back up not a starter so another area and decision that is questionable by LJ and Co. Apart from Bentley, Kalas, Jay we have recruited poorly and still lacking pivotal key area's 2/3 years on which simply isn't good enough we're a bang average team with no leader on it or off it... 

He’s first choice because at the time he deserved to be

no amount of you rewriting the season will change that

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