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Major Isewater

City consult Warnock , seemingly

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I have it on good authority, me , that City have stolen the game plan from Colin .

That performance yesterday would have had Colin in tears of pride as he watched LJ employ his methods to win matches .

As I mentioned on another of my incessant posts , we were in the top six playing pragmatic football and then started believing the hype around us.

We are Bristol City . We can’t afford the best players in our league so we need to get the best out of the ones we can have.

We need to forget sexy football and get out of this wide open Championship whilst we can .

If that means watching dull attritional games until we hit the jackpot then I can live with that . 
 

LJ needs to drill his squad so everyone of them knows where they should be in and out of position.

Yesterday there were just enough moments of quality to beat Wigan. We have certain players who can turn up the level when required but we need a solid base to work from.

It was evident that LJ told the full backs to stay back in the first half. We looked like a Warnock side with our long balls turning their defence , it made them nervous, even though we conceded possession.
 

It’s not what you’ve got but what you do with it that counts .

More winning football please Mr Johnson.

 

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I expect this will lead to the usual win ugly versus entertaining in defeat argument. 

Personally, the reason I have never wanted Warnock at our club is that I hate the football his teams play.

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Even though kalas isnt like moore or when we had webster he tries to not hoof it all the time unlike baker ... williams does a mixture I wasnt there but sounds like it was mainly hoofing it up the field. 

Which again makes sense why Weimann/Eliasson might of  had a poor game, this isnt playing to their strengths.

we needed the three points whilst we work on getting new players this month.

Edited by miketh2nd

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22 minutes ago, miketh2nd said:

Even though kalas isnt like moore or when we had webster he tries to not hoof it all the time unlike baker ... williams does a mixture I wasnt there but sounds like it was mainly hoofing it up the field. 

Which again makes sense why Weimann/Eliasson might of  had a poor game, this isnt playing to their strengths.

we needed the three points whilst we work on getting new players this month.

Eliasson was marked out of the game really, Wigan had done there homework and the space was there to be exploited by someone else. 

 

 

I do not mind us playing like this when we are away from home, I do think however that we get done by this at home and need to find a different way to play there. 

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1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

I have it on good authority, me , that City have stolen the game plan from Colin .

That performance yesterday would have had Colin in tears of pride as he watched LJ employ his methods to win matches .

As I mentioned on another of my incessant posts , we were in the top six playing pragmatic football and then started believing the hype around us.

We are Bristol City . We can’t afford the best players in our league so we need to get the best out of the ones we can have.

We need to forget sexy football and get out of this wide open Championship whilst we can .

If that means watching dull attritional games until we hit the jackpot then I can live with that . 
 

LJ needs to drill his squad so everyone of them knows where they should be in and out of position.

Yesterday there were just enough moments of quality to beat Wigan. We have certain players who can turn up the level when required but we need a solid base to work from.

It was evident that LJ told the full backs to stay back in the first half. We looked like a Warnock side with our long balls turning their defence , it made them nervous, even though we conceded possession.
 

It’s not what you’ve got but what you do with it that counts .

More winning football please Mr Johnson.

 

We can only get away with this for so long. Warlock philosophy or not of which I think is porkies the way we are playing at the moment only guarantees championship football at the gate and nothing else to look forward too. JUST MOMENTS OF QUALITY IS NOT ENOUGH.

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The problem with this Warnock-esque style we’re seeing is this ..... yes, we’re still well in touch with the play off places, but heaven help us if we somehow managed to get to luck our way through the play offs.

We’d get absolutely tonked in the Prem, because we are far less likely to be competitive on the field than we were 2 years ago.

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Really glad to see a win but there was more luck to yesterday's result than a successfully enacted plan.

Had Wigan scored we would have seen the usual wholesale formation changes and desperate substitutions on 63 minutes.

If we are to get out of this division, we need to do it on merit because we are able to dominate teams.

And unfortunately, the last thing I want to see our current coaching line-up do is blow £150M+ on even more players who get a few games and then fade into obscurity as Smith, Brownhill, Paterson, Diedhiou etc prove that they are still the better options.

We need a new coaching lineup not a series of smash and grab raids.

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I don’t like it but if that long ball game was our identity then I’d take it. We have been lacking an identity for two years now. I’d be happy to have something to hang our hat on for a bit. That said it wouldn’t be a great look for LJ. Playing that quick passing pressing game two years ago to 35% possession and long balls into the box and down the channels

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I think there's also a strong argument that City's tactics yesterday will yield the occasional smash and grab, but across a season it won't bring success. 

I don't think Warnock would rotate his team so often, and he'd have them well-drilled and exuding confidence. 

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1 hour ago, marcofisher said:

Eliasson was marked out of the game really, Wigan had done there homework and the space was there to be exploited by someone else. 

 

 

I do not mind us playing like this when we are away from home, I do think however that we get done by this at home and need to find a different way to play there. 

Yes saw Eliasson marked out of a home game recently too. Unsurprisingly opponents are giving him closer attention. If Pato can get some consistently he could be crucial if we can fit him in the team with Eliasson. He is one of the few in the team who can skilfully beat a man - will give opponents something else to think about rather than just Eliasson.

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34 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

The problem with this Warnock-esque style we’re seeing is this ..... yes, we’re still well in touch with the play off places, but heaven help us if we somehow managed to get to luck our way through the play offs.

We’d get absolutely tonked in the Prem, because we are far less likely to be competitive on the field than we were 2 years ago.

The first stage is to get to the Prem for thé health of our club. 
It doesn’t matter if we come straight back down again like WBA , Burnley and others but we need to advance so as not to get left behind . 
 

Parachute payments, notoriety and increased support will come our way when we make an appearance in the top flight.

I am convinced that SL wouldn’t risk the future of the club with ridiculous spending so the advantages would be enormous for us. 

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44 minutes ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said:

It almost worked for Gary Johnson.  Wasn’t pretty,  we all wanted trundle and noble playing but quite often it was lumped up to adebola 

I agree with the op.  Play to the strengths we have got 

I don’t think we are that’s the frustrating thing about all this, our strength is to get it down the wings and cross it into the box, but we aren’t, we aren’t attacking as we should, we seem to sit back and counter,

while it’s ok against teams like West Brom, against teams like Wigan we really should be able to dominate and bully them,

the only time we’ve done it this season was against Luton, other then that it has been slow boring football and that’s why the atmosphere at home is awful and people are getting more vocal when the bad run happens,

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Find it a tad disappointing that there are some who will at this minute settle for the identity of long ball tactics after we have had Johnson here for four years, gone through 60/70 odd players, and spent more than a fair few million. That's not progress or identity, it is failure. 

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42 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

The problem with this Warnock-esque style we’re seeing is this ..... yes, we’re still well in touch with the play off places, but heaven help us if we somehow managed to get to luck our way through the play offs.

We’d get absolutely tonked in the Prem, because we are far less likely to be competitive on the field than we were 2 years ago.

Don't worry, City don't win play offs.

Hard to understand the enthusiasm to get top 6 when we all know the outcome.

We need that golden season where everything falls into place - including a weak division, and more than our fair share of luck - and a top 2 automatic promotion.

 

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6 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

The first stage is to get to the Prem for thé health of our club. 
It doesn’t matter if we come straight back down again like WBA , Burnley and others but we need to advance so as not to get left behind . 
 

Parachute payments, notoriety and increased support will come our way when we make an appearance in the top flight.

I am convinced that SL wouldn’t risk the future of the club with ridiculous spending so the advantages would be enormous for us. 

I can certainly agree with that to a point Major, and there’s no doubt it really needs that Prem money even for just one season to be able to kick on.

My biggest fear is, on present form, we’re very well set up to do even worse than Derby’s low points record up there and think that could be really damaging.

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2 hours ago, Redpool said:

Find it a tad disappointing that there are some who will at this minute settle for the identity of long ball tactics after we have had Johnson here for four years, gone through 60/70 odd players, and spent more than a fair few million. That's not progress or identity, it is failure. 

It’s progress if we make the play offs or get promoted.

If we don’t I hope and expect a revision of our coaching set up at the end of the season.

 

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2 hours ago, BrizzleRed said:

I can certainly agree with that to a point Major, and there’s no doubt it really needs that Prem money even for just one season to be able to kick on.

My biggest fear is, on present form, we’re very well set up to do even worse than Derby’s low points record up there and think that could be really damaging.

It wouldn’t be ‘ on present form ‘ it would be on promotion winning form .

 We would evidently add two or three Prem  quality players and hope to compete but even if it went chest up quickly we would get the Prem monkey off our backs and parachute payments to help us develop the club further . 
 

I don’t expect us to trouble the top six straight away but we aren’t necessarily going to be relegation threatened from the off .

Clubs fortunes are often cyclical and following the euphoria of promotion we would be absolutely buzzing , that may be enough .

Other clubs may just be on a downward spiral giving us the opportunity to consolidate.

 

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4 hours ago, mozo said:

Personally, the reason I have never wanted Warnock at our club is that I hate the football his teams play.

You’d only have to ‘endure’ it for one season, we’d then be promoted to the premier league and we could thank NW, send him on his way and appoint a manager more suited to the top tier ...

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5 hours ago, marcofisher said:

Eliasson was marked out of the game really, Wigan had done there homework and the space was there to be exploited by someone else. 

 

 

I do not mind us playing like this when we are away from home, I do think however that we get done by this at home and need to find a different way to play there. 

Too pacy full-backs played him well yesterday.  When he is being marked out of the game he does need to drag his man around to create space.  

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4 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Don't worry, City don't win play offs.

Hard to understand the enthusiasm to get top 6 when we all know the outcome.

We need that golden season where everything falls into place - including a weak division, and more than our fair share of luck - and a top 2 automatic promotion.

 

Two years ago, the playoffs may have suited us.

We had that Cup run...the playoffs are like Cup ties, writ large. we had a bit of a run in the FA Cup durng 2014/15 (a reasonable run, 4th Round from first round entry as a League One club) and some of them (Flint, Bryan notably) were still there, won JPT- much lower level but still knockout- had a bit of a run in Carabao Cup in 2016/17, possibly fluffed the chance to go further v Hull.

Had we finished top 6 in 2017/18, who knows what might have happened.

4 hours ago, BrizzleRed said:

The problem with this Warnock-esque style we’re seeing is this ..... yes, we’re still well in touch with the play off places, but heaven help us if we somehow managed to get to luck our way through the play offs.

We’d get absolutely tonked in the Prem, because we are far less likely to be competitive on the field than we were 2 years ago.

Burnley don't play attractive football under Dyche, yet in general they do okay in the PL.

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4 hours ago, Monkeh said:

I don’t think we are that’s the frustrating thing about all this, our strength is to get it down the wings and cross it into the box, but we aren’t, we aren’t attacking as we should, we seem to sit back and counter,

while it’s ok against teams like West Brom, against teams like Wigan we really should be able to dominate and bully them,

the only time we’ve done it this season was against Luton, other then that it has been slow boring football and that’s why the atmosphere at home is awful and people are getting more vocal when the bad run happens,

Like WBA did up there you mean?

I get what you're saying but not many have, in terms of performance level- gone to Wigan and dominated, bullied them. Leeds vs 10 for a lot of the game and Brentford off tyhe top of my head, again vs 10...not such an easy away game.

Suppose you say similar about Barnsley even though their performances of late have been quite strong! Results too in fact.

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4 hours ago, Xiled said:

Really glad to see a win but there was more luck to yesterday's result than a successfully enacted plan.

Had Wigan scored we would have seen the usual wholesale formation changes and desperate substitutions on 63 minutes.

If we are to get out of this division, we need to do it on merit because we are able to dominate teams.

And unfortunately, the last thing I want to see our current coaching line-up do is blow £150M+ on even more players who get a few games and then fade into obscurity as Smith, Brownhill, Paterson, Diedhiou etc prove that they are still the better options.

We need a new coaching lineup not a series of smash and grab raids.

But they didn't score. And didn't really look like scoring. So it did work.

But yeah don't like seeing us smash it long all the time. Hunt long balls the worst. Looks at times like he could pass it simply to a midfielder but no, hits it to the right to make space and woosh upfield. Lovely...

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1 hour ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

You’d only have to ‘endure’ it for one season, we’d then be promoted to the premier league and we could thank NW, send him on his way and appoint a manager more suited to the top tier ...

Didn't it take him 6 years to get Sheffield Utd up and eventually managed with Tonge and Jags in the side?

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4 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

But they didn't score. And didn't really look like scoring. So it did work.

But yeah don't like seeing us smash it long all the time. Hunt long balls the worst. Looks at times like he could pass it simply to a midfielder but no, hits it to the right to make space and woosh upfield. Lovely...

You could argue that it was the exact same tactical performance that shipped 3 goals to Charlton and fell apart immediately against Brentford. I honestly think we'd lose most games playing like that.

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14 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Had we finished top 6 in 2017/18, who knows what might have happened.

We'd have lost, maybe tanking in the final after an epic semi - final win to get us all excited and optimistic.

Losing miserably in the play offs is what Bristol City have always done.

 

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3 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

We'd have lost, maybe tanking in the final after an epic semi - final win to get us all excited and optimistic.

Losing miserably in the play offs what Bristol City have always done.

 

I'm well aware of our playoff record, but given the experience in Cup runs and the similarities between that and playoffs, that season would have been as good a time as any to try and put it right.

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5 minutes ago, mozo said:

You could argue that it was the exact same tactical performance that shipped 3 goals to Charlton and fell apart immediately against Brentford. I honestly think we'd lose most games playing like that.

We were much more attacking though weren't we when we let in the 2 goals second half against Charlton? We seemed to be going for a 3rd from what I remember.

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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'm well aware of our playoff record, but given the experience in Cup runs and the similarities between that and playoffs, that season would have been as good a time as any to try and put it right.

No chance of City winning the play offs imo, we need to go up automatically.

Getting to the play offs and failing just knackers the Summer window and has a negative knock effect to the start of the next season.

I'll leave it to others to get excited about a top 6 finish.

 

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13 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

No chance of City winning the play offs imo, we need to go up automatically.

Getting to the play offs and failing just knackers the Summer window and has a negative knock effect to the start of the next season.

I'll leave it to others to get excited about a top 6 finish.

 

That is the old, built-on-sand, brittle/Bristol City you are bringing to mind there, if you don't mind me saying.

Whereas now, we are the new-fangled, all singing and dancing, 21st century Bristol City: resilient, resourceful, built to last. With, like, proper scouts and blokes pouring over stats on computers, and shit. Plus drones.

You are using what you know about the past to inform your view of what lies ahead, a common and understandable cognitive process. But you fail to incorporate into that vision of the future all that is new, and improved, and shiny, down AG, now.

Remember Brighton, who took six Championship seasons, and three play-off failures, before they went up (automatically). It is only a matter of time, and patience, and our time will surely follow...won't it?

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45 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

No chance of City winning the play offs imo, we need to go up automatically.

Getting to the play offs and failing just knackers the Summer window and has a negative knock effect to the start of the next season.

I'll leave it to others to get excited about a top 6 finish.

 

If we can't get past Shrewsbury then you'd have to be an optimist to think we'd get up through the play offs!

Having said that, I've always thought that teams that get into the play offs with a late run carry momentum with them into the knock out games. Hull were nowhere in the table until their late run when we met them in the play off final, and it was very similar for Villa last season, so whereas recent seasons have seen us dip out because of a drop in form late in the season, who knows how we'd do if we got into the play offs with a late run?

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3 hours ago, mozo said:

Didn't it take him 6 years to get Sheffield Utd up and eventually managed with Tonge and Jags in the side?

He promoted QPR to the premier league as champions of the championship in his first full season as their manager and he promoted Cardiff to the premier league in his first full season as their manager - with our squad he’d have done it again ... 

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19 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

He promoted QPR to the premier league as champions of the championship in his first full season as their manager and he promoted Cardiff to the premier league in his first full season as their manager - with our squad he’d have done it again ... 

Big budget at QPR but tbh he did want many couldn't- firstly promotion WITH QPR and secondly getting the best out of Taarabt- not sure any other manager has done the latter tbh!

His football there was decent too, I give him credit.

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3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'm well aware of our playoff record, but given the experience in Cup runs and the similarities between that and playoffs, that season would have been as good a time as any to try and put it right.

Not to mention the fact that what’s happened in the past under previous managers is completely irrelevant and has no bearing on what would happen the next time....

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17 hours ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

That is the old, built-on-sand, brittle/Bristol City you are bringing to mind there, if you don't mind me saying.

Whereas now, we are the new-fangled, all singing and dancing, 21st century Bristol City: resilient, resourceful, built to last. With, like, proper scouts and blokes pouring over stats on computers, and shit. Plus drones.

You are using what you know about the past to inform your view of what lies ahead, a common and understandable cognitive process. But you fail to incorporate into that vision of the future all that is new, and improved, and shiny, down AG, now.

Remember Brighton, who took six Championship seasons, and three play-off failures, before they went up (automatically). It is only a matter of time, and patience, and our time will surely follow...won't it?

I remember Brighton all too well - poor City performance and a typically traumatic late Leon Knight penalty sealed the inevitable.

If you've seen all the City play off failures I have then your optimism it might all come good for us next time is truly commendable.

I can't share it, and actually would prefer not to have to go through such disappointment and anti climax once again.

As I said,  far better to do it automatically when the time is right.

 

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14 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I remember Brighton all too well - poor City performance and a typically traumatic late Leon Knight penalty sealed the inevitable.

If you've seen all the City play off failures I have then your optimism it might all come good for us next time is truly commendable.

I can't share it, and actually would prefer not to have to go through such disappointment and anti climax once again.

As I said,  far better to do it automatically when the time is right.

 

Don't remind me! Completely get where you're coming from on that Noggers. I just feel, though, that achieving a play off spot would add a bit more meaning to an otherwise odd, somewhat frustrating, transitional season.

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I've heard for years that we'd be battered every week if we ever got promoted but I think a lot of the games between lesser Premier League teams are not much better than the Championship, and I'd like to think that with a few key additions we'd be competitive in a lot of games.  Of course, we are likely to lose to Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea etc, but 22 out of 38 games would be against fellow bottom 12 teams, and there would be plenty of points available in those games.

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