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Up The City!

Warnock til the end of the season

Warnock til the end of the season?  

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1 minute ago, miketh2nd said:

Only good thing about warnock is the players would learn how to time waste better and hoof the ball better  

 

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45 minutes ago, 054123 said:

Lee Johnson isn’t going anywhere. There is no suitable replacement 

Rubbish....there's loads of better managers out there.  

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I like Warnock but i'm not sure if this is the right time for him. He doesn't want to be in football too long, and I think if we were to replace LJ it would need to be a manager who bought into a long term vision and was prepared to stick around for a few seasons.

If we were bottom of the table, 6 points adrift and he wanted the job for 6 months to keep us up -  he would be top of my list.

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8 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

Rubbish....there's loads of better managers out there.  

Who’s the better manger who can work within our framework right now?

I don’t think sacking Johnson and floating for the rest of the season with McCallister as interim is viable 

Edited by 054123

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For years Warnock wanted to manage Bristol City.

Why?

Because his family home was in Cornwall, and he was commuting to manage Palace, QPR,  Leeds, Rotherham. As he was driving 6 hours to get to work, he drove past Bristol and looked with envy at his 'local' Championship team, from the point of view of Cornwall. 

Also, QPR, Palace, and Leeds, were off the field basket cases. Whereas Bristol City had the stability that came from Lansdown.

That was why Warnock never made a fuss when he was pushed by a City fan on the pitch. Why he said "I see Bristol City having a right go next season" after the 2016 City\Rotherham one all draw. He was trying to talk his way into a job.

But all that disappeared when he got his local, M5, Championship job at Cardiff.

Meanwhile Lansdown, when asked, said "Would you give him a job?" Well if I wanted someone to flatter my ego, give me dressing room gossip, repeat my buzzwords, and be paid less than the going rate because he has no experience of success, then I wouldn't, Steve.

But if I wanted someone to get promotion fast on no resources, then I would. 

But Lansdown wants a Yes Man, not a winner. Winners don't flatter his ego. They frighten it. So he appoints Tinnion, Millen, Mcallister, Jon Lansdown, Scott Murray on the kit, Lee Johnson. Jobs for the boys. Which is why Bristol City, in the sixth largest city in England, have not been in the top division for forty years, despite spending over 100 million during Lansdown's reign. And are overtaken by Blackpool, Bournemouth, and Burnley.

"I tell chairman they only have to do one thing, and that is appoint the man to do the job that they can't do" Brian Clough.

Still waiting, Steve. 

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Winning football games is all that matters, I don't care if we shithouse a 1-0 every week if it meant we go up. The football we have been playing under LJ has been turgid for months. 

Warnock, McCarthy, Hughton or even Allardyce if he can be tempted would be ideal. Of course none of them guarantee promotion, but they've all at least done it previously & have some idea of what it takes. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Boston Red said:

For years Warnock wanted to manage Bristol City.

Why?

Because his family home was in Cornwall, and he was commuting to manage Palace, QPR,  Leeds, Rotherham. As he was driving 6 hours to get to work, he drove past Bristol and looked with envy at his 'local' Championship team, from the point of view of Cornwall. 

Also, QPR, Palace, and Leeds, were off the field basket cases. Whereas Bristol City had the stability that came from Lansdown.

That was why Warnock never made a fuss when he was pushed by a City fan on the pitch. Why he said "I see Bristol City having a right go next season" after the 2016 City\Rotherham one all draw. He was trying to talk his way into a job.

But all that disappeared when he got his local, M5, Championship job at Cardiff.

Meanwhile Lansdown, when asked, said "Would you give him a job?" Well if I wanted someone to flatter my ego, give me dressing room gossip, repeat my buzzwords, and be paid less than the going rate because he has no experience of success, then I wouldn't, Steve.

But if I wanted someone to get promotion fast on no resources, then I would. 

But Lansdown wants a Yes Man, not a winner. Winners don't flatter his ego. They frighten it. So he appoints Tinnion, Millen, Mcallister, Jon Lansdown, Scott Murray on the kit, Lee Johnson. Jobs for the boys. Which is why Bristol City, in the sixth largest city in England, have not been in the top division for forty years, despite spending over 100 million during Lansdown's reign. And are overtaken by Blackpool, Bournemouth, and Burnley.

"I tell chairman they only have to do one thing, and that is appoint the man to do the job that they can't do" Brian Clough.

Still waiting, Steve. 

Can't like this post enough. Absolutely spot on.

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9 minutes ago, Boston Red said:

For years Warnock wanted to manage Bristol City.

Why?

Because his family home was in Cornwall, and he was commuting to manage Palace, QPR,  Leeds, Rotherham. As he was driving 6 hours to get to work, he drove past Bristol and looked with envy at his 'local' Championship team, from the point of view of Cornwall. 

Also, QPR, Palace, and Leeds, were off the field basket cases. Whereas Bristol City had the stability that came from Lansdown.

That was why Warnock never made a fuss when he was pushed by a City fan on the pitch. Why he said "I see Bristol City having a right go next season" after the 2016 City\Rotherham one all draw. He was trying to talk his way into a job.

But all that disappeared when he got his local, M5, Championship job at Cardiff.

Meanwhile Lansdown, when asked, said "Would you give him a job?" Well if I wanted someone to flatter my ego, give me dressing room gossip, repeat my buzzwords, and be paid less than the going rate because he has no experience of success, then I wouldn't, Steve.

But if I wanted someone to get promotion fast on no resources, then I would. 

But Lansdown wants a Yes Man, not a winner. Winners don't flatter his ego. They frighten it. So he appoints Tinnion, Millen, Mcallister, Jon Lansdown, Scott Murray on the kit, Lee Johnson. Jobs for the boys. Which is why Bristol City, in the sixth largest city in England, have not been in the top division for forty years, despite spending over 100 million during Lansdown's reign. And are overtaken by Blackpool, Bournemouth, and Burnley.

"I tell chairman they only have to do one thing, and that is appoint the man to do the job that they can't do" Brian Clough.

Still waiting, Steve. 

This is a really good post.

To add to it even more - wasn't Cotterill a Dawe appointment?

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7 minutes ago, UREDS_91 said:

I dont get the obsession. People are moaning about kicking the ball up the pitch...  Guess what Colin would do. Rather stick with Johnson.

Yes, but the great difference is that Warnock is a winner. 

We’ve gone stale. The players aren’t listening and the fans increasingly disaffected. As Warnock himself observed our manager talks a good game but can he deliver? The doubts are increasing on a daily basis. 

Again, another Warnock observation.... Johnson has the best management job in football. ... and what has LJ delivered? A massive, unbalanced squad of very average, physically and mentally weak players.

You have to start wondering about our set up when the only physical specimens we have start crying off with recurring little niggles and his ‘favourites’ are shunted out to other Clubs or marginalised. 

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40 minutes ago, Boston Red said:

For years Warnock wanted to manage Bristol City.

Why?

Because his family home was in Cornwall, and he was commuting to manage Palace, QPR,  Leeds, Rotherham. As he was driving 6 hours to get to work, he drove past Bristol and looked with envy at his 'local' Championship team, from the point of view of Cornwall. 

Also, QPR, Palace, and Leeds, were off the field basket cases. Whereas Bristol City had the stability that came from Lansdown.

That was why Warnock never made a fuss when he was pushed by a City fan on the pitch. Why he said "I see Bristol City having a right go next season" after the 2016 City\Rotherham one all draw. He was trying to talk his way into a job.

But all that disappeared when he got his local, M5, Championship job at Cardiff.

Meanwhile Lansdown, when asked, said "Would you give him a job?" Well if I wanted someone to flatter my ego, give me dressing room gossip, repeat my buzzwords, and be paid less than the going rate because he has no experience of success, then I wouldn't, Steve.

But if I wanted someone to get promotion fast on no resources, then I would. 

But Lansdown wants a Yes Man, not a winner. Winners don't flatter his ego. They frighten it. So he appoints Tinnion, Millen, Mcallister, Jon Lansdown, Scott Murray on the kit, Lee Johnson. Jobs for the boys. Which is why Bristol City, in the sixth largest city in England, have not been in the top division for forty years, despite spending over 100 million during Lansdown's reign. And are overtaken by Blackpool, Bournemouth, and Burnley.

"I tell chairman they only have to do one thing, and that is appoint the man to do the job that they can't do" Brian Clough.

Still waiting, Steve. 

I’d like to slag off this post, but it’s pretty much on the money.  Still undecided whether I’d be happy with Warnock.....but if the results started to come, I’d soon change my mind.  Shallow lot, football fans!  

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58 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I like Warnock but i'm not sure if this is the right time for him. He doesn't want to be in football too long, and I think if we were to replace LJ it would need to be a manager who bought into a long term vision and was prepared to stick around for a few seasons.

If we were bottom of the table, 6 points adrift and he wanted the job for 6 months to keep us up -  he would be top of my list.

Agree here i mean with cardiff it was quite a good fit but i saw someone say on here i think it took him 6 years to get the blades promoted! 

Relegation battle he would be ideal

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Never like anything about Colin, his football or cheating ways, although can't dknock his record. If we were in a relegation battle (which I know we have not got 50 points yet), I would concede a short term change to Colin before the summer re-build. But as we stand we are 1 point off the play offs with chance to bring in players, so see no point in making a knee jerk temporary change. If we continue to look like we will fall short or the playoffs then is the time to start looking and to appoint a new head coach that will finish the season and mould over the summer

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8 minutes ago, miketh2nd said:

Agree here i mean with cardiff it was quite a good fit but i saw someone say on here i think it took him 6 years to get the blades promoted! 

Relegation battle he would be ideal

The utopia is to find our own Chris Wilder. Someone who’s a genuine fan of the club and has the people skills to formulate the correct blend of players - both as players and personalities. 

He’s become one of my favourite managers. Such a great appointment for Sheffield United.

Edited by Phileas Fogg
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No disrespect to LJ and his qualities,but...Warnock has plenty of experience + success at this level + (probably) more chances to keep the team's concentration/faith high = Yes

My only concern would be about the midfield and our style of play: at Cardiff he often used physical and aggressive players and atm we are a bit lightweight, so we'd need to get 1 or 2 players on board. 

That being said, I think that our league position keeps LJ at safe,and with the current state of things, I expect difficulties in the transfer market too: two factors that could mean losing many other matches and slipping down the table soon. 

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4 hours ago, Spud55 said:

No. 

I may be in the Johnson out camp, but if we do replace him it has to be with a considered appointment to play the style of football that Johnson wants to play but can't for some strange reason. 

The club and Johnson have done so much work in building the culture of the club, the whole point of the way the club is set up starting with the work that SO'D did, is that we have a philosophy in the way we play that transcends individual managers and provides continuity when you do have to change manager. 

Bringing in Warnock throws that all out the window for me, the way we are playing now is like a Warnock side, so if we did bring him in, our season may pan out not differently than it will with LJ in charge, and if we make the top 6 (which we could anyway) realistically you have to offer him a longer contract for a year or two and then you have to sign his players and you throw away everything that many people have worked in thankless tasks to achieve over the last 5+ years. 

For the same reason I'm not certain I'd want Houghton. 

Look at Swansea, they for the longest time had a philosophy as a club in the way they played, they threw this in the bin at the altar of Premier league survival and its taken them until now to recover, by going back to what they do and playing football their way. 

What is our philosophy?

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1 hour ago, Boston Red said:

But if I wanted someone to get promotion fast on no resources, then I would. 

And this is exactly why I suggested giving him the job til the end of the season.

If we appointed a long term guy, then we can probably write this season off.

However with Warnock he would represent the best chance of us getting into the play offs this season. The transfer window is closing or could be closed by the time that a change is made hence why I've highlighted the above comment. He would work with the squad we have got now and shove a rocket up their asses. 

He represents our best chance of getting into the play offs this season. 

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28 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

And this is exactly why I suggested giving him the job til the end of the season.

If we appointed a long term guy, then we can probably write this season off.

However with Warnock he would represent the best chance of us getting into the play offs this season. The transfer window is closing or could be closed by the time that a change is made hence why I've highlighted the above comment. He would work with the squad we have got now and shove a rocket up their asses. 

He represents our best chance of getting into the play offs this season. 

I'm with you 100% @Up The City!

Short term gives us a push, and we finally seem some battle in our team this season

Then gives SL etc until the summer to ensure the correct long term replacement is in place

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people going on like we are in a relegation battle, not just outside play-off

I would never want Warnock as manager. I hate the way his teams play. And i'm not talking style of play - more the cheating side. I could'nt watch that every week.

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13 minutes ago, phantom said:

I'm with you 100% @Up The City!

Short term gives us a push, and we finally seem some battle in our team this season

Then gives SL etc until the summer to ensure the correct long term replacement is in place

We are in a stick or twist situation imo.

If we stick then I do worry we may just see our season fizzle out.

If we twist we may see our season fizzle out but I know Colin would at least put fire in the players bellies so we would stand half of a chance of taking advantage of our half decent position.

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8 minutes ago, Riaz said:

people going on like we are in a relegation battle, not just outside play-off

I would never want Warnock as manager. I hate the way his teams play. And i'm not talking style of play - more the cheating side. I could'nt watch that every week.

He wouldnt be manager really would he? In the typical sense. It would be a very short term appointment in order to try and achieve our season goals. Our problem is that our players are too honest and too soft and fragile. Under Warnock they would become men. 

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Nah! I've never looked at a Warnock side and thought they play highly entertaining football so it's a no from me. For the time-being it's better the devil you know.

I'd be surprised if the board are not wondering whether LJ has taken us as far as he can and whether it's time to scour the market both home and abroad for someone who potentially can move us to the next level and appoint that person over the summer. LJ has consolidated us in the championship. That's huge and he should be commended. 

I'm feeling nothing about other than knee-jerk reaction to the thought of Warnock. 

Edited by Rich_s
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26 minutes ago, Riaz said:

people going on like we are in a relegation battle, not just outside play-off

I would never want Warnock as manager. I hate the way his teams play. And i'm not talking style of play - more the cheating side. I could'nt watch that every week.

Normally I would agree with those comments @Riaz but sadly we are still not "streetwise" compared to some of the teams underhand tactics in our league

If it got us more points on the board I would see that as being worthwhile

The current state of football couldn't get any worse and at least we may go back to seeing shots on goal in a game again

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9 hours ago, daored said:

If and it’s a big if the club are looking to replace Lee, then they need to replace him and have the new guy in position for the remainder of this season to evaluate the squad.

I don’t think we’ll make the play offs under Lee this season. 

I don't think we will make the play offs under Lee in any season.

This isn't a knee jerk reaction, I just feel that even Lee is starting to doubt himself.

As far as Colin as a replacement is concerned then the football on offer would doubtless be awful. However, I would take awful football as long as it was awful winning football. This season in the Championship, I feel it was and maybe still is one of massive opportunity in that it looks a pretty level standard from near top to near bottom. How on earth we are still in with a sniff of the play offs, I have no idea. However, for how much longer will this be the case?

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6 hours ago, 054123 said:

Lee Johnson isn’t going anywhere. There is no suitable replacement 

I'm sure LJ will have told SL similar. 

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1 hour ago, RaspberryRed said:

Surely this is a ''I'm available'' to Steve L

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51100089

I hadn’t read that. Yep. I’d say it was. And I’d take it. He’s easy to hate, but With the shoe on the other foot I bet he’s easy to love. 
 

And I’m damn sure he’d get this shower of shit playing well. 

Edited by Fordy62
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I find it laughable that anyone can put Warnock and stylish football in the same library let alone a sentence. But that's not the point, whether Warnock or anyone else it's too late to change now when we're already half way through the transfer window. If LJ was to be replaced it had to be done early in December to allow a new guy to assess the players and give time for changes. 

I do wonder if you stripped out those on OTIB who would want LJ gone regardless if he won the league by 20 clear points, because they never liked him as a player and still don't: and those who never want to see him depart because they worship the ground he walks on, how many posters we'd be left with. 

I don't see any realistic alternative to assessing the situation at the seasons end. As while we are not happy at current performances and results is this something new, of course not. In the end analysis are points more important than performed, yes. When we have been on bad runs in the past has it always been a disaster, no. Are we in a bad league position currently, no. Can we still finish in a position that means a 6th year of improvement, yes. Can we still make the play offs, yes. 

But in the end analysis this is all moot. We are not going to determine whether he stays or goes. The Lansdown's are. 

 

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8 hours ago, Matty_Taylor_is_god said:

Moan about the apparent lack of quality in our football. Thread is created wanting warnock.

sums this forum up.

Irrespective of where I am in the LJ debate. You seem to have crossed wires as I didn't create this thread to advocate NW.

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6 hours ago, Boston Red said:

For years Warnock wanted to manage Bristol City.

Why?

Because his family home was in Cornwall, and he was commuting to manage Palace, QPR,  Leeds, Rotherham. As he was driving 6 hours to get to work, he drove past Bristol and looked with envy at his 'local' Championship team, from the point of view of Cornwall. 

Also, QPR, Palace, and Leeds, were off the field basket cases. Whereas Bristol City had the stability that came from Lansdown.

That was why Warnock never made a fuss when he was pushed by a City fan on the pitch. Why he said "I see Bristol City having a right go next season" after the 2016 City\Rotherham one all draw. He was trying to talk his way into a job.

But all that disappeared when he got his local, M5, Championship job at Cardiff.

Meanwhile Lansdown, when asked, said "Would you give him a job?" Well if I wanted someone to flatter my ego, give me dressing room gossip, repeat my buzzwords, and be paid less than the going rate because he has no experience of success, then I wouldn't, Steve.

But if I wanted someone to get promotion fast on no resources, then I would. 

But Lansdown wants a Yes Man, not a winner. Winners don't flatter his ego. They frighten it. So he appoints Tinnion, Millen, Mcallister, Jon Lansdown, Scott Murray on the kit, Lee Johnson. Jobs for the boys. Which is why Bristol City, in the sixth largest city in England, have not been in the top division for forty years, despite spending over 100 million during Lansdown's reign. And are overtaken by Blackpool, Bournemouth, and Burnley.

"I tell chairman they only have to do one thing, and that is appoint the man to do the job that they can't do" Brian Clough.

Still waiting, Steve. 

Warnock wasn't commuting from his home in Cornwall to Cardiff, he moved there.

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8 hours ago, SecretSam said:

No times infinity.  Disgusting man, disgusting football.

No idea where you get that idea from, he is a genuinely nice bloke, he was devastated by what happened with Sala, if you cannot see past the game day persona, it’s you that has an issue.

Would I take him here, yes, but only until the end of the season, until a full time replacement could be found.

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1 hour ago, Maesknoll Red said:

No idea where you get that idea from, he is a genuinely nice bloke, he was devastated by what happened with Sala, if you cannot see past the game day persona, it’s you that has an issue.

Would I take him here, yes, but only until the end of the season, until a full time replacement could be found.

People often forget that it's all an act, it's just a persona he has created. His autobiography was one of the best I've ever read. The one thing he would do is unite the whole club from now until the end of the season. 

Yes we may be a little bit more dirty under him but is that really a bad thing? The alternative is that under LJ we are far too honest and soft and we show very little fight. The thing is I think our players are capable of going to war, it's just that LJ is unable to motivate them to go to war.

I see scrapping for 6th place as similar to scrapping for survival. Colin has a record of achieving success at both ends of the tables.

He would also get the best put of Palmer, like he has done with other similarly talented players like him.

It's weird that people are happy for us to sign a loan striker until the end of the season, but not sign a manager until the end of the season. No one is suggesting Colin as a permanent manager, I would hate that. But as a short term manager to get us into the play offs? Absofuckinglutely.

 

 

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Why the hell would anyone want to watch Neil Warnock drive this team into the promotion race whatever the style of football , when we can enjoy the turgid trash being served up by LJs teams as we slip further and further away from the top two? What's to lose till the end of the season?  We aint going up with the gaffer we have now. I know SL wont call him but it's worth discussing again just for the banter .

 

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The more I think about this the more I’d love it. Our midfield would instantly become 10x harder and our game management would go through the roof. We’ve literally got nothing to lose. 

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Warnock till the end of the season, Premier League footy, 100mil in the bank and 3 years of parachute payments if we go down?

Who isn’t taking that in all honesty. Sets us up as a club for the next 5-10 years if managed properly. 
 

disclaimer - this isn’t me saying Colin guarantees any of the above

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15 hours ago, FNQ said:

Cardiff have improved since he left.. how can that be?

Also, can anyone honestly imagine SL and MA opening a bottle of vintage red and inviting that awful man up to the board room to join them to talk business?

Awful man? You obviously know nothing about him except the well-rehearsed media persona which has fooled you as well as zillions of others ...

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Love how lots of people who’ve slagged off NW relentlessly in the past and ridiculed my support for his skills are now clamouring to get him in as our gaffer - you can’t choreograph comedy quite like that! 🤣

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LJ is a pillar in SL's project and is therefore unmovable.  In any event, SL does not like or respect Colin as far as I am aware (who does, to be fair).

That said, Colin has proved that he can motivate and promote, so who knows?

The problem I have is that I don't know any English manager who is available who could do any better unless we are prepared to look abroad.

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18 hours ago, Spud55 said:

No. 

I may be in the Johnson out camp, but if we do replace him it has to be with a considered appointment to play the style of football that Johnson wants to play but can't for some strange reason. 

The club and Johnson have done so much work in building the culture of the club, the whole point of the way the club is set up starting with the work that SO'D did, is that we have a philosophy in the way we play that transcends individual managers and provides continuity when you do have to change manager. 

Bringing in Warnock throws that all out the window for me, the way we are playing now is like a Warnock side, so if we did bring him in, our season may pan out not differently than it will with LJ in charge, and if we make the top 6 (which we could anyway) realistically you have to offer him a longer contract for a year or two and then you have to sign his players and you throw away everything that many people have worked in thankless tasks to achieve over the last 5+ years. 

For the same reason I'm not certain I'd want Houghton. 

Look at Swansea, they for the longest time had a philosophy as a club in the way they played, they threw this in the bin at the altar of Premier league survival and its taken them until now to recover, by going back to what they do and playing football their way. 

Ive suggested someone on another thread who has previously got a team promoted on a budget and played g0ood football doing it. 

Nigel Adkins Imo. 

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No, he wouldn't be able to make the changes needed in that period of time. This season is LJ's, a new manager for next season is not something I'd oppose. 

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16 hours ago, Boston Red said:

For years Warnock wanted to manage Bristol City.

Why?

Because his family home was in Cornwall, and he was commuting to manage Palace, QPR,  Leeds, Rotherham. As he was driving 6 hours to get to work, he drove past Bristol and looked with envy at his 'local' Championship team, from the point of view of Cornwall. 

Also, QPR, Palace, and Leeds, were off the field basket cases. Whereas Bristol City had the stability that came from Lansdown.

That was why Warnock never made a fuss when he was pushed by a City fan on the pitch. Why he said "I see Bristol City having a right go next season" after the 2016 City\Rotherham one all draw. He was trying to talk his way into a job.

But all that disappeared when he got his local, M5, Championship job at Cardiff.

Meanwhile Lansdown, when asked, said "Would you give him a job?" Well if I wanted someone to flatter my ego, give me dressing room gossip, repeat my buzzwords, and be paid less than the going rate because he has no experience of success, then I wouldn't, Steve.

But if I wanted someone to get promotion fast on no resources, then I would. 

But Lansdown wants a Yes Man, not a winner. Winners don't flatter his ego. They frighten it. So he appoints Tinnion, Millen, Mcallister, Jon Lansdown, Scott Murray on the kit, Lee Johnson. Jobs for the boys. Which is why Bristol City, in the sixth largest city in England, have not been in the top division for forty years, despite spending over 100 million during Lansdown's reign. And are overtaken by Blackpool, Bournemouth, and Burnley.

"I tell chairman they only have to do one thing, and that is appoint the man to do the job that they can't do" Brian Clough.

Still waiting, Steve. 

Would just like to point out the above, WTF has the kit man got to do with anything? A club legend, who genuinely loves the club and from personal experience couldn't of went anymore out of his way to help us out when my son was mascot away at Charlton and the team coach arrived late.

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42 minutes ago, Spike said:

No, he wouldn't be able to make the changes needed in that period of time. This season is LJ's, a new manager for next season is not something I'd oppose. 

Bull. He joined QPR and Rotherham in March and February and led them both to safety, Rotherham being the more impressive case as they were down and out and relegation certainties before his arrival. 

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4 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Love how lots of people who’ve slagged off NW relentlessly in the past and ridiculed my support for his skills are now clamouring to get him in as our gaffer - you can’t choreograph comedy quite like that! 🤣

Ive always backed your views on Warnock BS4. His record speaks for itself at this level, a top top championship manager that there is no doubt.

To use LJ’s own terminology it genuinely feels like its ‘written in the stars’ for Warnock to come in now and deliver this club top flight football.. 

Edited by bris red
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