Jump to content
IGNORED

Midfield the problem


extonsred

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, extonsred said:

When all is said and done we have a weak midfield, no one who can take control, constant change of personnel and style and despite reports the passing game returned last night any forwards are going to continue to cry out for better and sustained supply. 

And who’s fault is that? It’s not as if the head coach has signed over 50 players and not addressed the issue we’ve had since wade Elliot left or anything

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, extonsred said:

When all is said and done we have a weak midfield, no one who can take control, constant change of personnel and style and despite reports the passing game returned last night any forwards are going to continue to cry out for better and sustained supply. 

Yes. I think buying a quality midfielder is probably more important than a striker. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Drew Peacock said:

Some people say the problem is midfield, some say defence, some say attack, some say it's coaching.

Agreed problems all over the pitch. 50 odd players into Johnson’s reign and were still lacking in all departments. Shocking recruitment and money wasted. 
Getting back to midfield I totally agree with Exton. They are all much of a muchness. Don’t create chances, collectively score enough goals,  or show defensive toughness. When was the last time any one of Smith, Nagy or HNM created a proper chance or scored a goal. We’ve got the midfield other teams players would want to play against. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, extonsred said:

When all is said and done we have a weak midfield, no one who can take control, constant change of personnel and style and despite reports the passing game returned last night any forwards are going to continue to cry out for better and sustained supply. 

Yet we have a dozen midfield players on the books.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think midfield is the problem per se, we have clearly recruited to play a particular system / style, none of which is 4-4-2 and playing the way we are at the moment. 

If we want to continue to play 4-4-2 then by my reckoning we need at least 4/5 players, 

A right back, a big dominating Cm, plus another as backup, a winger, a striker to play with Fam plus backup for them and probably Fam as well. 

If this is the way we want to play now, we have recruited 50 odd players for nothing as few of them fit this system or style, and either Johnson has been chatting waffle to Mark Ashton about the style and system he wants to play, or Mark Ashton is recruiting with his own ajenda and needs to be shown the door. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Spud55 said:

I don't think midfield is the problem per se, we have clearly recruited to play a particular system / style, none of which is 4-4-2 and playing the way we are at the moment. 

If we want to continue to play 4-4-2 then by my reckoning we need at least 4/5 players, 

A right back, a big dominating Cm, plus another as backup, a winger, a striker to play with Fam plus backup for them and probably Fam as well. 

If this is the way we want to play now, we have recruited 50 odd players for nothing as few of them fit this system or style, and either Johnson has been chatting waffle to Mark Ashton about the style and system he wants to play, or Mark Ashton is recruiting with his own ajenda and needs to be shown the door. 

Mark ashton is going to SL and showing him some incredible transfer profits,,, im sure we are signing players with a view to future profitability in mind. We sign palmer and smodzics in the same window, we already had cod pato watkins and adelakun plus eliasson in that position, and thats with morrell bakinson and walsh out on loanAnd cod has got a new contract. Absolutely rediculous. Also brownhill functions best as a more attacking midfielder and always plays, which takes up a spot 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Top Robin said:

Quantity not quality 

I know, and it blows the theory about “Poor Lee” losing all his best players and having such a limited budget out of the water. He chose to fill the squad with mediocrity in the hope he can coach it into profit at a later date. His strategy, his choice.

Just buy in a bit of quality like that monster “institution” in comparison to us, Brentford, manage to do, on a similar if not substantially LESS budget.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4-3-3!!

Said this for year and a half and sporadically the first few weeks of 2017/18.

4-3-3 brings out certain strengths and masks certain weaknesses- if LJ implents it right of course.

Consider:

  1. Brownhill in a 2 restricts his goal threat/attacking threat and indeed versatility.
  2. Nagy in a 2 means that he can be possessed, or his partner pressed and we're negated.
  3. Walsh in a 2 had his defensive questions so couldn't do it.
  4. Korey perhaps isn't the same player as he was and I'm unsure he will be due to injury.
  5. Massengo can get easily bullied in a 2, with his age being a factor which then puts us on the back 3. Bit harder in as 3.
  6. Would also add possible O'Neil due to age and Hegeler due to style/age/differences were also done no favours in a 2...Pack last season in his position also restricted us and him at times after a certain time.

Rowe and Morrell may he able to play it but it's a short sighted shape at this level...look at other sides at this level, how many play 2 CMs- especially good ones!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Spud55 said:

I don't think midfield is the problem per se, we have clearly recruited to play a particular system / style, none of which is 4-4-2 and playing the way we are at the moment. 

If we want to continue to play 4-4-2 then by my reckoning we need at least 4/5 players, 

A right back, a big dominating Cm, plus another as backup, a winger, a striker to play with Fam plus backup for them and probably Fam as well. 

If this is the way we want to play now, we have recruited 50 odd players for nothing as few of them fit this system or style, and either Johnson has been chatting waffle to Mark Ashton about the style and system he wants to play, or Mark Ashton is recruiting with his own ajenda and needs to be shown the door. 

If we play 4-4-2, we won't go up- period.

Check the sides who have gone up in recent years at this level, it's very rare...and the higher sides don't play it for a reason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

If we play 4-4-2, we won't go up- period.

Check the sides who have gone up in recent years at this level, it's very rare...and the higher sides don't play it for a reason.

You can set-up however you like, but without motivation it means nothing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Der no.2 said:

You can set-up however you like, but without motivation it means nothing.

Well yes, but we won't go up with 4-4-2 IMO.

We're already swimming badly against the tide with Parachute Payments, let's not add to it tactically as well.

The only way I can see a possibly successful 4-4-2 is if LJ settles on it and we go to strong counter pressing- like a Monk side or Millwall under Harris 2 years ago and are happy to concede the ball but look to attack and shoot a lot. Not long ball but mid 30's-low 40's possession wise.

Otherwise no, it's outdated. It does nothing if you want to control the ball and the game in that sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its scandalous that the midfield is said and appears to be "weak". I don't believe that to be the case. I think that we are not being set up correctly by the manager. You have to look at the stats and perhaps someone knows where to get them from but I would be interested to see the stats of Brownhill, Palmer, Weimann, Odowda, Elliason, Nagy

Look at - chances created, assists and goals. Only Eliasson would have respectable figures and he has not even played full games. That tells you that the extent of the problem. I personally think we have too many similar players. LJ needs to find his best 11, find a formation and go with it. His constant tinkering is an issue for me. It would also be interesting to see how many times this season LJ has named an unchanged team. Cant think of many....

Best 11 for me: 

Away (4231) and Home 4132

Bentley, Pererra, Kalas, Williams, DaSilva, Nagy, Massengo, Eliasson, Palmer, Paterson, Fammy.

Home (4132)

Bentley, Pererra, Kalas, Williams, DaSilva, Massengo, Eliasson, Palmer, Paterson, Fammy. (New Striker)

I think Weimann, Odowda and Brownhill are the most overrated players. Weimann works hard but don think he has the quality to get enough goals or assists. Is he any better than say Luke Freeman or Matty Taylor?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Johnr1986 said:

As things stand Don’t really see Nagy as a upgrade on Pack , Smith isn’t fit and missed, Massengo is good but very inconsistent understandable given age, and when brownhill plays in a two It limits the best part of his game. 

It really doesny help that our midfield are very light and small and regularly get out muscled. We really miss Pack in this department

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hang on a minute - many on here were saying we had one of the best midfields in the League after Huddersfield and Fulham...... Then after 2 great wins and some "cannot leave them alone tinkering" by Johnson with the tactics, that soon messed that up, and then predictably after the tinkering and poor performances a couple get dropped and others brought in, they are poor so change again and again.

The problem is the coaching, tactics and asking players to play in a way they are not comfortable with, therefore they all just look clueless. Nagy and Massengo look totally different players to the driving forward and slightly risky players they were at the start of the season.

We have a squad of players that should be in the top 4 or 5 and playing decent football imo. But in the real World we have a squad that looks like they are in a team that are in a relegation battle (most of the time), and trying to grind out results with terrible, boring, predictable football.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think you can isolate midfield as the problem. 

Right-back has been a problem recently. Left-back has been a problem much of the season (despite a great effort from Rowe).

Centre-backs have been on a constant rotation and have made countless errors. 

Wide areas/forwards have been in and out of form. Palmer and O'Dowda in particular won't be happy with their output. 

Up front, I think Diedhiou and Weimann are in a race to 15 goals for the season which is a lot by their standards, but they've both been sloppy in goalscoring positions, and their effort normally hasn't been matched by quality. 

We have had a lack of consistency all over the park, and we have an imbalanced squad. I think only Bentley and Elliasson have played close to their potential. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, MarkRed! said:

Its scandalous that the midfield is said and appears to be "weak". I don't believe that to be the case. I think that we are not being set up correctly by the manager. You have to look at the stats and perhaps someone knows where to get them from but I would be interested to see the stats of Brownhill, Palmer, Weimann, Odowda, Elliason, Nagy

Look at - chances created, assists and goals. Only Eliasson would have respectable figures and he has not even played full games. That tells you that the extent of the problem. I personally think we have too many similar players. LJ needs to find his best 11, find a formation and go with it. His constant tinkering is an issue for me. It would also be interesting to see how many times this season LJ has named an unchanged team. Cant think of many....

Best 11 for me: 

Away (4231) and Home 4132

Bentley, Pererra, Kalas, Williams, DaSilva, Nagy, Massengo, Eliasson, Palmer, Paterson, Fammy.

Home (4132)

Bentley, Pererra, Kalas, Williams, DaSilva, Massengo, Eliasson, Palmer, Paterson, Fammy. (New Striker)

I think Weimann, Odowda and Brownhill are the most overrated players. Weimann works hard but don think he has the quality to get enough goals or assists. Is he any better than say Luke Freeman or Matty Taylor?

Agree playing 3 in CM would best suit us, but LJ (and plenty on here) are blind to Wiemanns shortcomings because he runs around a lot. He is the one that needs benching to accommodate 3 in CM. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, MarkRed! said:

Its scandalous that the midfield is said and appears to be "weak". I don't believe that to be the case. I think that we are not being set up correctly by the manager. You have to look at the stats and perhaps someone knows where to get them from but I would be interested to see the stats of Brownhill, Palmer, Weimann, Odowda, Elliason, Nagy

Look at - chances created, assists and goals. Only Eliasson would have respectable figures and he has not even played full games. That tells you that the extent of the problem. I personally think we have too many similar players. LJ needs to find his best 11, find a formation and go with it. His constant tinkering is an issue for me. It would also be interesting to see how many times this season LJ has named an unchanged team. Cant think of many....

Best 11 for me: 

Away (4231) and Home 4132

Bentley, Pererra, Kalas, Williams, DaSilva, Nagy, Massengo, Eliasson, Palmer, Paterson, Fammy.

Home (4132)

Bentley, Pererra, Kalas, Williams, DaSilva, Massengo, Eliasson, Palmer, Paterson, Fammy. (New Striker)

I think Weimann, Odowda and Brownhill are the most overrated players. Weimann works hard but don think he has the quality to get enough goals or assists. Is he any better than say Luke Freeman or Matty Taylor?

Broadly agree with this. 4-4-2 just isn't successful in modern football, and definitely not with the personnel we have. 

Any combination of the 4-1-4-1 from 17-18 season, 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 or 3-5-2 works for me. 

Switching to 4-4-2 in recent matches strikes me as desperation, rather than just 'tinkering' and is a challenge to the whole idea of 'identity'.

For me we have to play 2 of Smith, HNM and Nagy in front of a back 4. Then find the optimum balance of attack and cover with remaining positions, preferably with Eliasson playing every game!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, last nights winner by Shrewsbury is purely a midfield problem. 
Actually, I’ll correct that. A Brownhill problem. 
 

Brownhill is in a good DM position when the ball is played back to Pierre. 
For some unknown reason he decides to wander off to the right, leaving a huge hole between him and Nagy. 
Pierre plays a nice easy one-two into that huge hole. 
Then, when Pierre strides forward into that hole, Brownhill just bounces up and down On the spot twice and shows no interest in closing the huge hole that he himself created. 
 

Brownhill can’t play in a central 2 without a strict and disciplined DM with him. He doesn’t sense or have the awareness of these potential danger moments. Having Pack alongside him for 3 years covered up his total lack of awareness as Pack was always holding his position behind him. 
 

Pack, whilst having faults of his own, has not been adequately replaced. 
Brownhill cannot play in a 2. 
If Brownhill holds the edge of the box last night, for just 3 seconds, instead of wandering off to the right, then Pierre has no forward pass, had to play sideways, there is no shot at goal and we are potentially still in the cup. 
 

We need a positionally aware central midfielder, one who is comfortable on the ball, can patrol the edge of the box and prevent teams opening is up down the middle. 
We sold one who does this. We need to replace him. And none of JB, KS, AN, HNM can do this. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Completely agree with Clutton Caveman about our "lightweight" midfield. Far too easily out muscled, pushed off and physically (legally and illegally) intimidated, plenty of examples from last night.

No "enforcer" (yes, Gow and Doherty spring to mind) and no one to scare and bully the opposition. The players don't even seem to get agitated or annoyed!

Come back Pack!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What has happened to Nagy? He seemed the real deal in his early performances.. granted he is light weight but you could of imagined a 07/08 Marvin Elliot type in alongside him Would have been the perfect compliment ..

I know its been done to death but im still convinced a different manager could get more out of Nagy. The guy has played week in week out in the seria A ffs and has multiple international caps..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...