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Badger08

LJ Outers - Help convince me

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17 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I haven't heard that interview, read that comment though but It depends to what extent, I doubt many managers would want Ashton having total control. I assume he means the finer details of the transfers (financials too) are down to Ashton. I hope it's not the whole process including player identification. There are others on this forum who know about it though - Can anyone clarify how the transfer process works? Pretty sure I've seen @Harry post about it before.

RE Assets - Yes that's true. I think some are better at holding onto them than us though. Although in hindsight all of the big money sales have been made sense. Ironically it was probably Ayling which was the worst deal for the club but obviously external factors played into that. 

As far as i’m aware / we’ve been told, MA is Lee’s boss, he runs the Football Operations, Lee the playing side (all generally speaking).  As part of Football Operations, MA runs the Recruitment Team.  That must consist of Analysts and Scouts (and I guess some other related roles).

If we just focus initially on players coming in - Recruitment includes player identification.  This will / must have several strands / sources:

- players trawled against the Database having been given a brief (e.g. Eliasson met the ‘find me a Knockaert’ brief), presumably by LJ and his team which could include Academy Coaches too

- players added by LJ / other key staff, e.g. he fancies Dack

- players added by Scouts / Agents, including those where a recent conversation have revealed player x might be available, in unsettled etc

- players added by say Analysts as a result of seeing others when looking at the targets given to them

That gets you into the funnel.

The Analysts and Scouts go to work and refine that list.  Dack might stay on that list, because it’s a specific recommendation from LJ.

LJ and his team may also go and watch players, rather than rely on just data or scout reports

Funnel removes more players.

At that point, you are starting to think about approaches (assuming rules not been broken beforehand!!)

MA more involved at this point, but may use LJ’s football knowledge to assist or even take the lead (Tammy home visit).

When financials are the next stage, then SL/JL involved.

It won’t run straight through like that everytime, but that is how it has been communicated to us, with LJ stating that he has final say whether he go for a player.  Personally, I can’t believe MA would take a proposal to SL without LJ’s backing.  Both would look stupid.

So how do we get to a position where people with more insight into City than me, can openly suggest that LJ is getting players he didn’t want, or even on Twitter today suggest the Recruitment Team signed Diedhiou.  I just can’t accept, our head-coach would just accept a £5.3m record signing being added to his squad.  I’m not suggesting he doesn’t know the player, I’m being told is wasn’t an LJ signing.

If that is the case I go back to my earlier posts, that LJ should be issuing an ultimatum, either he gets to decide or he walks.

Dont get me wrong I’m not naive to forget SL’s interference with David James.  If he hasn’t moved on from that style of ownership,  then we have been suckered!

 

 

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2 hours ago, Badger08 said:

This is where you lose me.  How can you say he is out of his depth? Were you saying this when we outplayed Jose, one of the most successful managers the game has seen.  Out of his depth suggests that he's not won a game, so I'm not taking that. 

He has kept us in a consistently high position within the championship. Saying he is out of his depth is, in my opinion, completely incorrect.  
 

Clear tactics and the support within the team which included some good character’s was what saw us show both sides of Manchester that we were no pushover.

2 seasons on we are a team with no identity, no leaders and a coach that does NOT any longer have the loyalty of his players, something he has managed to achieve at some time in every season so far in his management career! Not just at BS3!
Has anybody got a better excuse for his streaky nature? Doubt it! 
His streaks cannot be coincidence, playing players out of position, choosing formations that don’t suit the players available, personal feelings interfering with selection and victimising players!

the players know more about the game than any of us, they know he’s not up to the job so some just go through the motions, they get paid anyway! He probably remembers doing that himself, so good at hiding we should have called him Houdini!
 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

As far as i’m aware / we’ve been told, MA is Lee’s boss, he runs the Football Operations, Lee the playing side (all generally speaking).  As part of Football Operations, MA runs the Recruitment Team.  That must consist of Analysts and Scouts (and I guess some other related roles).

If we just focus initially on players coming in - Recruitment includes player identification.  This will / must have several strands / sources:

- players trawled against the Database having been given a brief (e.g. Eliasson met the ‘find me a Knockaert’ brief), presumably by LJ and his team which could include Academy Coaches too

- players added by LJ / other key staff, e.g. he fancies Dack

- players added by Scouts / Agents, including those where a recent conversation have revealed player x might be available, in unsettled etc

- players added by say Analysts as a result of seeing others when looking at the targets given to them

That gets you into the funnel.

The Analysts and Scouts go to work and refine that list.  Dack might stay on that list, because it’s a specific recommendation from LJ.

LJ and his team may also go and watch players, rather than rely on just data or scout reports

Funnel removes more players.

At that point, you are starting to think about approaches (assuming rules not been broken beforehand!!)

MA more involved at this point, but may use LJ’s football knowledge to assist or even take the lead (Tammy home visit).

When financials are the next stage, then SL/JL involved.

It won’t run straight through like that everytime, but that is how it has been communicated to us, with LJ stating that he has final say whether he go for a player.  Personally, I can’t believe MA would take a proposal to SL without LJ’s backing.  Both would look stupid.

So how do we get to a position where people with more insight into City than me, can openly suggest that LJ is getting players he didn’t want, or even on Twitter today suggest the Recruitment Team signed Diedhiou.  I just can’t accept, our head-coach would just accept a £5.3m record signing being added to his squad.  I’m not suggesting he doesn’t know the player, I’m being told is wasn’t an LJ signing.

If that is the case I go back to my earlier posts, that LJ should be issuing an ultimatum, either he gets to decide or he walks.

Dont get me wrong I’m not naive to forget SL’s interference with David James.  If he hasn’t moved on from that style of ownership,  then we have been suckered!

 

 

That's essentially how I understand it too, good write up.

What I am interested in is one or two posts on here (by people you and I know are ITK) to suggest that some players have been imposed upon LJ. Also heavy implication that many of the signings who haven't worked out have been Ashton signings. May be well wide of the mark, but that's how I remember the posts. 

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2 hours ago, Robert the bruce said:

The coach I would choose would be Frank...if we could prise him from Brentford..

Do you really want to see city in the topflight??..

If you do then Lee & his coaching team don't have the skill sets to take you there...so yes,,it's footballing reasons - were just going around in circles without the vaunted "identity" & making the same mistakes season on season #repeat.

I'm fortunate(and old)enough to have seen city in the top flight before & would dearly love to see them there again before my time' on this planet is up.

Third in five weeks time??...not a hope-but if so??? nothing changes as you know what's coming next,,just like watching 'Columbo'!!

Id give the new man three full seasons,, amended re progress,,identity & playing style - only fair eh??😉

 

The funny thing is Brentford and Frank come up time and again in the LJ out threads. Brentford are a brilliantly run club but they have the same issues we have had. They have regularly started seasons slowly and been on catch up.

Go on their forum and look at they're thread about Frank about this time ladt season. They even had a poll thread where they ended up deleting the the results and comments because it got to heated.

They have a very long thread about him that you can view and just like with OTIB right now many wanted him gone last season. Follow it through to this seasons posts and what are they attributing to this seasons success? Continuity and the fact that for once the kept some of their best players!

I'd also point we are only 5 points behind them now and they are on their best run of the season. We finished well above them last season and just 2 points behind them the season before. We are a club like Brentford! transitions whilst using that model are tough! 

People need to realise we are run in a very similar way, personally I think that's a good thing. This idea that chucking LJ out is going to some how magically change everything is crazy to me. I'm proud that we are a club that is financially well run and not prone to knee jerk reactions.

Like it or not we have improved league position every season under LJ. Gone from relegation candidates to playoffs expectant. We are still very much in contention right now too and I'd say his record with us at least deserves to see the season out. 

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2 hours ago, Badger08 said:

I'm going to start off by saying, I'm not here for an argument.  I can't be bothered, and if you have a different opinion, then great.  I haven't seen a single argument to convince me that changing manger is going to be worth lifting us up an extra point (as it stands).

So, I want to know a few things to get inside people's heads who want Johnson out, to see if it could change my mind.  If you can't, or don't want to answer the questions then don't bother, like I've said, I'm not here for a fight or name calling.  I want a decent debate. Lets see if we are capable of it here. 

 

  1. What manager would you choose over Johnson and why?  ("its not my job" answer won't cut it.  If you want to call for the manager, you must have a solution)
  2. What league position at this stage of the season would you be happy with? 
  3. Is it purely footballing reasons you would like Johnson gone?
  4. If in 5 weeks time we were 3rd, but still playing the football we are, would you still want him gone? 
  5. How long would you give a new manager to get us into the playoffs? 

 

I'd be interested in peoples thoughts. 

 

 

1) Chris Hughton - Probably going to be very costly but massively impacting in multiple ways, fans would get excited by this, players would have respect for him without having to earn it and has proven himself to be a very capable manager with connections.
Neil Warnock - Let me be clear here, I can't stand Warnock or his football but based on LJ's recent "tactics" I feel the football wouldn't be all that different, only we'd eventually bring in some players with some bite, actual fighters who will get stuck in which is something we've not had in a long time. Hate the guy or not he's got a proven track record and he gets the job done and he's another one who would gain a lot of attention whilst having a wealth of experience the club could learn from.
"It's not my job" -  You said this won't cut it but let's be straight, us fans are not ITK, we don't get to see a managers attitude or his pitch to sell himself to the club, we don't get to ask previous employers how they feel a manager did their job or question them on previous discrepancies etc Hiring any manager for a job without having this access becomes a job 200% harder. The bottom line is that we don't seem to be a club willing to take a risk on possibly the most important role in the club and this seems largely down to the Coppell fiasco. That was a long time ago and although we were burned once this doesn't mean we should stop taking a chance with a more established manager. With regards to FFP, I'd rather a great manager than two great players, the budget needs to be worked on to make that happen but as a fan there is no way we could get into these discussions as they are internal and ultimately probably ok'ed by SL himself.

2) At this point I would be happy to have a new manager come in with us in 9th, however if I am judging LJ then I expected us to be pushing for a play off spot with the football reflecting that, the reason being is that we've had LJ for almost 4 years now and in reality the only real progress that we've made is in getting a little more structure financially which in my opinion is not to the credit of LJ but SL and MA. On the pitch we certainly had a massive improvement in our 16/17 season in how we played our football but since then the football has regressed massively and the entertainment of watching us has gone. The 16/17 season I had a lot of Cardiff City and Leeds fans that I know complementing how we played and saying we looked like a team on the up, now I have those same fans echoing what I see when they say our football has gone ugly and we don't look nearly as interesting to watch.

So to answer the question, I would be happy with 9th at this point in the football wasn't so poor to watch, I'm not saying we need to play like Liverpool but we certainly need an identity and some players that other teams are impressed by/ scared of playing against. LJ has paid £7m for Massengo and £8m for Kalas and these are big signings, when you make these kind of signings you then need to provide the results and football that are expected with them, if anything we've made two record signings and actually look worse on the pitch.

3) At the moment the key factor is the football, there is a chance with our January transfers that we could change our approach to how we play if we have some real quality come in upfront but that is still to be seen. My other issues are the constant excuses and the tactics we have implemented this season. Most teams build on their players strengths, we seem to be leaving our most influential players on the bench at times when we most need a spark. If we are to lose Eliasson this month I would put that largely down to LJ not using him and therefore overlooking our best crosser when he's put so much focus on getting crosses into the box this season.

4) If we were 3rd and still playing the same football... sounds crazy but yes. As most of our fans will say, LJ is a streaky manager, we may be 3rd in 5 weeks but could equally end up 12th by the end of the season, consistency is a massive factor in this league, you cannot afford to go on big losing streaks as you see yourself go from being a play off contender to a mid-table or less team in no time.

5) A new manager would need time, I don't feel any manager should be expected to get the play offs in 1 transfer window as they'd need to make changes to suit their ideals, they'd need to change players so if LJ were gone tomorrow I'd give him at least a season and a half to show a real change in football quality and based on his first full season in charge finishing position. You cannot give a manager a set time scale until you can see what they are doing in the job, it is all what if's and let's see's but with LJ this is his 8th transfer window and we've still not got a definite starting 11, we don't have any real identity to our football, we seem to struggle to win games at home which in turn puts fans off from coming to Ashton Gate and we've not reached a play off position and don't look likely to this year either. I suppose my issue is how long do we give Lee? We've just missed out on a game that would have been a season highlight because we couldn't beat a League One team 16th in their league and to add to the salt in the wound that is a huge financial blow to our FFP and that would have generated big money that was made by the club rather than the owner.
My personal view is that LJ should be given until the end of the season and if he cannot turn this season into a play off finishing spot then discussions for his replacement should be in place before the season even finishes, managers should be approached and their salaries discussed, finances moved around to give us a chance to land a marquee manager, not another "up and comer".

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LJ's managerial record so far. Oldham, Barnsley and City up till now.

P     W  D   L      F    A    P    PPG

87 29 27 31 102:112 114 1,31
42 17 9 16 65:55 60

1,43

181 69 49 63 256:241 256 1,41

This is league games only and his record is average at best and his teams seem to ship a lot of goals. His teams also are pretty equal in wins to losses ratio as is borne out by the points per game stats. To me he is a steady mid table manager who will have good runs coupled with the losing streaks. IMO we will never be promoted with LJ at the helm.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, CityCiderEd said:

LJ's managerial record so far. Oldham, Barnsley and City up till now.

P     W  D   L      F    A    P    PPG

87 29 27 31 102:112 114 1,31
42 17 9 16 65:55 60

1,43

181 69 49 63 256:241 256 1,41

This is league games only and his record is average at best and his teams seem to ship a lot of goals. His teams also are pretty equal in wins to losses ratio as is borne out by the points per game stats. To me he is a steady mid table manager who will have good runs coupled with the losing streaks. IMO we will never be promoted with LJ at the helm.

 

 

 

Mr average just about sums it up. At work he's the employee who is never going to win any awards but is steady enough. Never going to rock the boat.  Does his time picks up his watch and pension and moves to Cornwall. People forget who he is the day after he's left. 

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2 hours ago, Badger08 said:

You are willing to role that dice right now? I do get the other points. 

What happens if we sign a new manager and its worse.  I'd get taking that gamble if we were midtable, but now?  Thats a big gamble to take. 

If you replace 'gamble' with 'calculated risk', it sounds much more palatable.

Lansdown will not fire Johnson, he runs a steady ship. I'm just bored with city, really bored.

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1 hour ago, Alessandro said:

Anyone can read and regurgitate a book. 
 

My question about anyone who spends a long time on a football forum arguing on a technical level.....why are you here arguing about it and why are you not doing it for real??

I guess the working patterns of people actually in the game may allow them time to post on forums during a "normal" working day should they so wish.

Their motives for doing so may vary between simply showing off, having a dig at someone/some club they have cause to dislike, or conversely to defend the position of a person at a club, due to firm belief, simple loyalty, employment concerns, or because they were told to do so by their employer.

There may therefore be one or two who can be active on a forum and earn a living from the game, although I don't know who they might be.

Then there are the out and out bluffers who are as close to the game as I am of course, but set themselves on a podium .

The other factor being that some people may comment or question technical matters purely out of an enthusiasm for the game and a genuine interest to listen to others opinions, and having spare time to do so  - there are a couple of posters I can think of who add much value (and sanity) to this forum in that regard.

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14 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said:

Mr average just about sums it up. At work he's the employee who is never going to win any awards but is steady enough. Never going to rock the boat.  Does his time picks up his watch and pension and moves to Cornwall. People forget who he is the day after he's left. 

Mr Average. But still our best performing manager at this level since his Dad. Better than five other Lansdown picks: Coppell, Millen, McInnes, O'Driscoll and Cotterill.

In the context of the club's history, over the past two years we've been a solid top 10 Championship side teetering on the edge of the play-offs, or in fact spending a fair bit of time in the top 6. Beating Mourinho's Manchester United and reaching the semi-finals of a major domestic cup competition. 

In the context of the club's history these are not "average" achievements, they are very good ones.

Even his time spent as manager - four years - is not average, it's well above average. So excuse me whilst I call bullshit on your "forget who he is the day after he's left" claim.

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3 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Though attracting, and paying, a top management team is going to be much easier if we have been promoted.

Maybe we will get promoted this year with LJ, maybe we won't if we go with NW.  But time and again managers show that they are specialists at particular leagues and partcular levels of players.

Get promotion from Div3 to Div 2 - Cotts - absolute past master at it and delivered.

Get promotion from Div 2 to Div 1 - Neil Warnock.

 

If you want somebody to do a great job then get somebody who has already done a great job in those circumstances multiple times.

 

Warnock's eight promotions

In 1986/87 Warnock led Scarborough into the Football League for the first time in their history, winning the title and promotion from the Football Conference to the old Fourth Division. They were the first team to win automatic promotion to the Football League after the re-election system was abolished.

In 1989/90 Warnock took Notts County up from the old Third Division via the play-offs.

The following season in 1990/91 he did exactly the same to take them from the old Second Division into the top flight.

In 1994/95 Warnock triumphed in the Second Division play-offs again, this time with Huddersfield.

In 1995/96 he took Plymouth up from Division Three via the play-offs again.

In 2005/06 he took Sheffield United to the Premier League after finishing second in the Championship.

In 2010/11 he took QPR up to the Premier League after finishing first in the Championship.

Warnock steers Cardiff to second place and automatic promotion in the Championship in 2017/18

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11688/11358416/neil-warnock-wins-record-eighth-promotion-with-cardiff

People also forget what Warnock described as one of his best ever feats, keeping a doomed Rotherham in the championship when they were cut off and beyond help.  He did not stay the following year and if I recall correctly they then went !  Still it was one achievement.

All this talk is fun but ‘pie in the sky ‘ like it or not ‘ LJ is going no where.

 That said if I was SL I would ditch the 3 wise men today, (the staff not LJ alone are culpable for crap football) and get WARNOCK in for 18 months). The performances would not be worse than we watch now. 

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42 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

As far as i’m aware / we’ve been told, MA is Lee’s boss, he runs the Football Operations, Lee the playing side (all generally speaking).  As part of Football Operations, MA runs the Recruitment Team.  That must consist of Analysts and Scouts (and I guess some other related roles).

If we just focus initially on players coming in - Recruitment includes player identification.  This will / must have several strands / sources:

- players trawled against the Database having been given a brief (e.g. Eliasson met the ‘find me a Knockaert’ brief), presumably by LJ and his team which could include Academy Coaches too

- players added by LJ / other key staff, e.g. he fancies Dack

- players added by Scouts / Agents, including those where a recent conversation have revealed player x might be available, in unsettled etc

- players added by say Analysts as a result of seeing others when looking at the targets given to them

That gets you into the funnel.

The Analysts and Scouts go to work and refine that list.  Dack might stay on that list, because it’s a specific recommendation from LJ.

LJ and his team may also go and watch players, rather than rely on just data or scout reports

Funnel removes more players.

At that point, you are starting to think about approaches (assuming rules not been broken beforehand!!)

MA more involved at this point, but may use LJ’s football knowledge to assist or even take the lead (Tammy home visit).

When financials are the next stage, then SL/JL involved.

It won’t run straight through like that everytime, but that is how it has been communicated to us, with LJ stating that he has final say whether he go for a player.  Personally, I can’t believe MA would take a proposal to SL without LJ’s backing.  Both would look stupid.

So how do we get to a position where people with more insight into City than me, can openly suggest that LJ is getting players he didn’t want, or even on Twitter today suggest the Recruitment Team signed Diedhiou.  I just can’t accept, our head-coach would just accept a £5.3m record signing being added to his squad.  I’m not suggesting he doesn’t know the player, I’m being told is wasn’t an LJ signing.

If that is the case I go back to my earlier posts, that LJ should be issuing an ultimatum, either he gets to decide or he walks.

Dont get me wrong I’m not naive to forget SL’s interference with David James.  If he hasn’t moved on from that style of ownership,  then we have been suckered!

 

 

Your description is how its happens. Can anyone seriously believe that Sl would sign off on the Fama deal if LJ raised any doubts ? People are seriously off target. It is insulting to SL as much as anything to suggest he would impose a player on LJ. He burnt his fingers with James, never to be repeated. 

This is people getting their excuses in and not taking responsibility for their actions. If we are signing rubbish both LJ and MA are responsible. Neither can blame each other, and both claim they work in an integrated manner. 

As these suggestions or rumours are being fed from inside the club to members on here, it can be easily imagined a certain displeasure and annoyance being felt elsewhere. 

Eddie N will be, and is a needed addition. How he fits our random system will need to be seen. He also does not resolve the ongoing issue of needing strikers at the club. Not many clubs at our level have their record transfer fee spent on a defender, more so on a defender that cannot play the ball out of defence, as Webster. You would think with Webster leaving, our record signing would be someone to replace him. Anyway, bottom line, too many excuses being put out for poor decisions by both MA and LJ in the transfer market and total absence of a footballing identity and strategy throughout the club meaning any player we sign is random. Go look at the team that beat Man Utd. Really look at that. 2 years ago, our best football, but most would turn their noses up at those players now. 

A notable reset is needed, and urgently. What we are seeing now is a classic scenario of people out of their depth throwing out excuses and suggesting change (players, coaches, we have changed them all) to buy time. SL is starting to realise that. 

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9 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Mr Average. But still our best performing manager at this level since his Dad. Better than five other Lansdown picks: Coppell, Millen, McInnes, O'Driscoll and Cotterill.

In the context of the club's history, over the past two years we've been a solid top 10 Championship side teetering on the edge of the play-offs, or in fact spending a fair bit of time in the top 6. Beating Mourinho's Manchester United and reaching the semi-finals of a major domestic cup competition. 

In the context of the club's history these are not "average" achievements, they are very good ones.

Even his time spent as manager - four years - is not average, it's well above average. So excuse me whilst I call bullshit on your "forget who he is the day after he's left" claim.

Deary, deary me. 

"Solid top 10" Average then.  "Teetering on the edge of the play offs" But never making them.  "Spending time in the top 6" Not even going to waste my time with that.

Beating Mourinho's Man Utd and reaching a semi final. And?   Joe Jordan did the same; had us a lot closer to getting to the final than LJ did..  Russell Osman's team beat Liverpool.

He's an average manager as his record shows.  Nearly making the play offs and being "top 10" is average.  Average, average, average.

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4 hours ago, Badger08 said:

I'm going to start off by saying, I'm not here for an argument.  I can't be bothered, and if you have a different opinion, then great.  I haven't seen a single argument to convince me that changing manger is going to be worth lifting us up an extra point (as it stands).

So, I want to know a few things to get inside people's heads who want Johnson out, to see if it could change my mind.  If you can't, or don't want to answer the questions then don't bother, like I've said, I'm not here for a fight or name calling.  I want a decent debate. Lets see if we are capable of it here. 

 

  1. What manager would you choose over Johnson and why?  ("its not my job" answer won't cut it.  If you want to call for the manager, you must have a solution)
  2. What league position at this stage of the season would you be happy with? 
  3. Is it purely footballing reasons you would like Johnson gone?
  4. If in 5 weeks time we were 3rd, but still playing the football we are, would you still want him gone? 
  5. How long would you give a new manager to get us into the playoffs? 

 

I'd be interested in peoples thoughts. 

 

 

1 - Nigel Adkins

2- League position is not the be all and end all. i'd like to be in the playoffs, but i want to be entertained for my money i pay

3 - Quality of football is poor, he over thinks everything, and we have a bloated squad that has the look and feel as though it has been put together by 3/4 different managers, because each season he seems to rip up last years rule book that failed and try something different the next season

4 - Probably not, although should we miraculously make the playoffs and scrape our way through we would be crucified in the premiership. but i just do not see it happening. we've been poor at home during most of his tenure, but now the team look affraid to play at ashton gate because the crowd are getting frustraited at the poor quality and style of football currently being offered.

5 - 2/3 years. we need a clear out and re-build rather than just splashing the cash

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5 hours ago, Badger08 said:

I'm going to start off by saying, I'm not here for an argument.  I can't be bothered, and if you have a different opinion, then great.  I haven't seen a single argument to convince me that changing manger is going to be worth lifting us up an extra point (as it stands).

So, I want to know a few things to get inside people's heads who want Johnson out, to see if it could change my mind.  If you can't, or don't want to answer the questions then don't bother, like I've said, I'm not here for a fight or name calling.  I want a decent debate. Lets see if we are capable of it here. 

 

  1. What manager would you choose over Johnson and why?  Don't have a nailed on favourite & am not an expert in managers.  I would have thought a possible list would include:  Chris Hughton (as others have said Brighton seems to be a blueprint for Project Bristol), Gary Monk.  I wouldn't want McCarthy and I'm not sure Colin would be as great as others think.  But if he were to be appointed short term, would happy get behind him.
  2. What league position at this stage of the season would you be happy with? I think top six is (slightly) over achieving
  3. Is it purely footballing reasons you would like Johnson gone? Honestly I was not super excited when he was announced, but decided to give him a chance.  He asked for 3 windows to get his team (fair enough).  He has had that and he has been afforded the luxury of a BOLD summer.  I don't see a team willing to play for him, his system or the shirt.   
  4. If in 5 weeks time we were 3rd, but still playing the football we are, would you still want him gone? I would still be indifferent about him as a coach.  But results are one thing.  If the team still seem uninterested, it would seem to point to a deeper problem.  So if that problem lies with LJ then ultimately yes I think he may have to go.  But maybe in the summer.  For the life of me I cannot fathom what has happened with COD ..... for me he seems to be a average to poor player at the moment, not sure if LJ is to blame or if the club over ruled LJs wish to let him go and now this is the fallout (who knows?)
  5. How long would you give a new manager to get us into the playoffs? I think given the size of the squad we have now, the board would expect play off s this season or next

 

I'd be interested in peoples thoughts. 

Seems that the recent behaviour of LJ is concerning.  As a fan I'm not keen on a manager grabbing people by the neck and the rest of his disiplinary issues.  Also not keen on his post match pressers where he blames either the ref or individual errors.

LJ may be a modern coach.  But I personally get the feeling he lacks man management skills and the coaching ability to nuture flair players.

The thing which has bought his tactical expertise into sharp focus is Shrewsbury.  It seems that for both games their manager made a change at half time that trumped LJs tactics.  You would expect LJ to have reacted.  As many on here have said, there often does not look to be a plan B.

If that can be done by a L1 coach ... surely there is something not right?   (no offence to Shrews)

 

 

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  1. What manager would you choose over Johnson and why?  Don't have a nailed on favourite & am not an expert in managers.  I would have thought a possible list would include:  Chris Hughton (as others have said Brighton seems to be a blueprint for Project Bristol), Gary Monk.  I wouldn't want McCarthy and I'm not sure Colin would be as great as others think.  But if he were to be appointed short term, would happy get behind him.
  2. What league position at this stage of the season would you be happy with? I think top six is (slightly) over achieving
  3. Is it purely footballing reasons you would like Johnson gone? Honestly I was not super excited when he was announced, but decided to give him a chance.  He asked for 3 windows to get his team (fair enough).  He has had that and he has been afforded the luxury of a BOLD summer.  I don't see a team willing to play for him, his system or the shirt.   
  4. If in 5 weeks time we were 3rd, but still playing the football we are, would you still want him gone? I would still be indifferent about him as a coach.  But results are one thing.  If the team still seem uninterested, it would seem to point to a deeper problem.  So if that problem lies with LJ then ultimately yes I think he may have to go.  But maybe in the summer.  For the life of me I cannot fathom what has happened with COD ..... for me he seems to be a average to poor player at the moment, not sure if LJ is to blame or if the club over ruled LJs wish to let him go and now this is the fallout (who knows?)
  5. How long would you give a new manager to get us into the playoffs? I think given the size of the squad we have now, the board would expect play off s this season or next

 

I'd be interested in peoples thoughts. 

Seems that the recent behaviour of LJ is concerning.  As a fan I'm not keen on a manager grabbing people by the neck and the rest of his disiplinary issues.  Also not keen on his post match pressers where he blames either the ref or individual errors.

LJ may be a modern coach.  But I personally get the feeling he lacks man management skills and the coaching ability to nuture flair players.

The thing which has bought his tactical expertise into sharp focus is Shrewsbury.  It seems that for both games their manager made a change at half time that trumped LJs tactics.  You would expect LJ to have reacted.  As many on here have said, there often does not look to be a plan B.

If that can be done by a L1 coach ... surely there is something not right?   (no offence to Shrews)

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6 hours ago, Badger08 said:

I'm going to start off by saying, I'm not here for an argument.  I can't be bothered, and if you have a different opinion, then great.  I haven't seen a single argument to convince me that changing manger is going to be worth lifting us up an extra point (as it stands).

So, I want to know a few things to get inside people's heads who want Johnson out, to see if it could change my mind.  If you can't, or don't want to answer the questions then don't bother, like I've said, I'm not here for a fight or name calling.  I want a decent debate. Lets see if we are capable of it here. 

 

  1. What manager would you choose over Johnson and why?  ("its not my job" answer won't cut it.  If you want to call for the manager, you must have a solution)
  2. What league position at this stage of the season would you be happy with? 
  3. Is it purely footballing reasons you would like Johnson gone?
  4. If in 5 weeks time we were 3rd, but still playing the football we are, would you still want him gone? 
  5. How long would you give a new manager to get us into the playoffs? 

 

I'd be interested in peoples thoughts. 

 

 

1. Warnock definitely. QPR and Cardiff were both promoted playing to their strengths. 0nly when they were in the Prem did their style of play become more direct. 

2. Ten or twelve points better off because that's how many we've thrown away in games we should have won 

3. I didn't want him in the first place. I don't believe he's done enough to prove that he deserved to manage City and I couldn't stand him as a player 

4. Yes. See 3

5. With the quality of players we have we should walk onto the play offs this season. End of next season max

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6 hours ago, Badger08 said:

Failed at the first hurdle. Brilliant.

As I've said, I'm not after an argument, I'm after a debate.  I've made myself pretty clear on my stance and I'm bored of repeating myself. Its great that you disagree, its a good debate.  If you have anything you want me to answer, you can PM or highlight it in the thread.  As you can imagine, being part of a few that want LJ to remain, I get bombarded with people replying to threads and I simply haven't got time at argue EVERY case.  

Count me out. I'm not takin' de bait.

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11 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Count me out. I'm not takin' de bait.

Don't tell him your name Pike

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30 minutes ago, harvey54 said:

1. Warnock definitely. QPR and Cardiff were both promoted playing to their strengths. 0nly when they were in the Prem did their style of play become more direct. You're saying they played good football in the championship and it only changed after promotion? Just don't agree with you no doubting he's effective but the football is not good. 

2. Ten or twelve points better off because that's how many we've thrown away in games we should have won so up there with Leeds and WBA is what you expect? Delusional

3. I didn't want him in the first place. I don't believe he's done enough to prove that he deserved to manage City and I couldn't stand him as a player Here is what your real problem seems to be. 

4. Yes. See 3

5. With the quality of players we have we should walk onto the play offs this season. End of next season max

So now you except only s playoff place? And that mighg take until next season? We are very much in contention still this season.

So LJ is either way off some delusional expectations set out by you in 2. Or pretty much bang on target. 

I

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4 hours ago, Hocca said:

Someone seriously suggest Thomas frank as new manager?! Brentford have arguably the best squad in the league, a new stadium on the way and also he signed a new deal 2 days ago!

Gareth Ainsworth would be my shout 

Actually, that’s not a bad shout. He managed to save Wycombe from dropping out of the football league on the last day of the season at the expense of the Sags, then he missed out on promotion when losing a play-off final on penalties but went better and got promoted to League One and now he is working wonders in League One with probably a very tight budget. He’s young, has a better CV than our current boss and I believe he would be prepared to work within the clubs philosophy and constraints.

He also appears to learn from the mistakes and improve, unlike our manager who appears to go round and round in circles.

 

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6 hours ago, Badger08 said:

I'm going to start off by saying, I'm not here for an argument.  I can't be bothered, and if you have a different opinion, then great.  I haven't seen a single argument to convince me that changing manger is going to be worth lifting us up an extra point (as it stands).

So, I want to know a few things to get inside people's heads who want Johnson out, to see if it could change my mind.  If you can't, or don't want to answer the questions then don't bother, like I've said, I'm not here for a fight or name calling.  I want a decent debate. Lets see if we are capable of it here. 

 

  1. What manager would you choose over Johnson and why?  ("its not my job" answer won't cut it.  If you want to call for the manager, you must have a solution)

chris hughton, can set up a team to get promoted from this level.

2. What league position at this stage of the season would you be happy with? 

top half.

3. Is it purely footballing reasons you would like Johnson gone?
 

yes, theres no cohesion, and for each of the last 4 seasons we have suffered a collapse in form which has cost us a play off place.

4. If in 5 weeks time we were 3rd, but still playing the football we are, would you still want him gone?
 

yes, see point 3. Still suffering the streaks after 4 seasons is unacceptable. 

5. How long would you give a new manager to get us into the playoffs?

no timeline, the new manager will have a grossly unbalanced squad, and needs to install some steel while having his best players sold from underneath him. 
 

 

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6 hours ago, Badger08 said:

I'm going to start off by saying, I'm not here for an argument.  I can't be bothered, and if you have a different opinion, then great.  I haven't seen a single argument to convince me that changing manger is going to be worth lifting us up an extra point (as it stands).

So, I want to know a few things to get inside people's heads who want Johnson out, to see if it could change my mind.  If you can't, or don't want to answer the questions then don't bother, like I've said, I'm not here for a fight or name calling.  I want a decent debate. Lets see if we are capable of it here. 

 

  1. What manager would you choose over Johnson and why?  ("its not my job" answer won't cut it.  If you want to call for the manager, you must have a solution)
  2. What league position at this stage of the season would you be happy with? 
  3. Is it purely footballing reasons you would like Johnson gone?
  4. If in 5 weeks time we were 3rd, but still playing the football we are, would you still want him gone? 
  5. How long would you give a new manager to get us into the playoffs? 

 

I'd be interested in peoples thoughts. 

 

 

1. I personally would be looking Chris Hughton as we know he’s had success at this level. 

2. Happy with play offs but I would be accepting of a top half finish. (Not happy and also not bitter) 

3. I get frustrated with LJ because he bangs on about identity and it’s noticeable that this identity has shifted time and time again. Where’s that pressing and intensity from a couple of seasons or so gone. If you can tell me what our identity is then fair play!

4. No I wouldn’t want him gone because then we are achieving success and in a great position to go up. Don’t think anyone wants him gone if we are 3rd. But right now we aren’t achieving much success. We lately (past few seasons) look in a commanding position and blow it!

5. Have to give time and SL has shown he has a good record with that on the whole. A lot more with LJ though, so I would say you get half season (if joined now) and then two full seasons and see where we are. 

Edited by Tears in rain

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2 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Mr Average. But still our best performing manager at this level since his Dad. Better than five other Lansdown picks: Coppell, Millen, McInnes, O'Driscoll and Cotterill.

In the context of the club's history, over the past two years we've been a solid top 10 Championship side teetering on the edge of the play-offs, or in fact spending a fair bit of time in the top 6. Beating Mourinho's Manchester United and reaching the semi-finals of a major domestic cup competition. 

In the context of the club's history these are not "average" achievements, they are very good ones.

Even his time spent as manager - four years - is not average, it's well above average. So excuse me whilst I call bullshit on your "forget who he is the day after he's left" claim.

Hes also had more Financial backing than anyone in history, playing in a revamped stadium with more fans than in decades in it. 
 

manchester united was fantastic, but 2 years later we can barely pass the ball to each other and have a grossly unbalanced squad, and have had a 4th consecutive season of losing streaks.

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7 hours ago, Badger08 said:

I'm going to start off by saying, I'm not here for an argument.  I can't be bothered, and if you have a different opinion, then great.  I haven't seen a single argument to convince me that changing manger is going to be worth lifting us up an extra point (as it stands).

So, I want to know a few things to get inside people's heads who want Johnson out, to see if it could change my mind.  If you can't, or don't want to answer the questions then don't bother, like I've said, I'm not here for a fight or name calling.  I want a decent debate. Lets see if we are capable of it here. 

 

  1. What manager would you choose over Johnson and why?  ("its not my job" answer won't cut it.  If you want to call for the manager, you must have a solution)
  2. What league position at this stage of the season would you be happy with? 
  3. Is it purely footballing reasons you would like Johnson gone?
  4. If in 5 weeks time we were 3rd, but still playing the football we are, would you still want him gone? 
  5. How long would you give a new manager to get us into the playoffs? 

 

I'd be interested in peoples thoughts. 

 

 

1.  I’m a Johnson fan but the only one I’d consider over him is Eddie Howe who can work within our structure 

2. I’m happy where we are 

3. the football isn’t that bad. We are not Man City  It’s only slow because we have no pace to run in behind Which is easy to defend high against which stifles the midfield   You watch our game change with a quick striker and Afobe back

4. nope

5.  2 years with money , 4 without 

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1 hour ago, Gert Mare said:

Actually, that’s not a bad shout. He managed to save Wycombe from dropping out of the football league on the last day of the season at the expense of the Sags, then he missed out on promotion when losing a play-off final on penalties but went better and got promoted to League One and now he is working wonders in League One with probably a very tight budget. He’s young, has a better CV than our current boss and I believe he would be prepared to work within the clubs philosophy and constraints.

He also appears to learn from the mistakes and improve, unlike our manager who appears to go round and round in circles.

 

Just again on this Brentford thing, we finished above them last season. They're fans wanted Frank gone last season. The are delighted that they kept him now and didn't sell off their best players. From their forum:

 

People say give him 10 games but what happens if we lose our next 5 games. Do we pull the trigger. 3 home games in November so hopefully this becomes an irrelevant conversation


Unfortunately Bill that has been the storey of several games this season, including several of the previous 8. Think it comes down to being more clinical in front of goal (obvious I know!).

scoreline flattered us, loads of errors, sloppy passing, poor discipline, defence all over the place.

that 'hot seat' has just got hotter for TF today....his 'arris might be roasting this time next week

Lets be honest, We've never been "that" close to the top 6, plausible yes but not been close enough IMO. Yes we had a push last season but that came to an abrupt end. Each year we build and this season was supposed to be the one where we dont sell anyone as the cycle/time for this squad had come. The DOF talk about the cycles of the squad and if you think we wont have a big rebuilding task on our hands in the summer if we dont go up then the club would have turned down a lot of cash and extended some contracts (which i cant see happening).

TF got ZERO points from those matches. He is not the man for the job, that much is obvious. You can give him all the time in the world, but it will not work out. My opinion, of course.

I actually wrote him off after Bristol City match, but refrained from voicing my opinion knowing full well just how claustrophobic this forum is.

Preston haven't suddenly hit any form, they just drew against Rotherham at home. Glad you mentioned QPR, because it shows how important it is to have a experienced manager at this level. Birmingham are another example. TF haven't manged game of football outside Denmark and it shows.

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8 hours ago, Badger08 said:

I want to know a few things to get inside people's heads who want Johnson out, to see if it could change my mind.

  1. What manager would you choose over Johnson and why?  ("its not my job" answer won't cut it.  If you want to call for the manager, you must have a solution)
  2. What league position at this stage of the season would you be happy with? 
  3. Is it purely footballing reasons you would like Johnson gone?
  4. If in 5 weeks time we were 3rd, but still playing the football we are, would you still want him gone? 
  5. How long would you give a new manager to get us into the playoffs? 

Straight of the bat, football’s about opinions and I don’t hope to change your mind. My opinion is based on aspiring to see City in the PL in my lifetime and I don’t think LJ is the man to do deliver that.

1. Pick up the phone to Hughton, he’d get us organised although I doubt he’d work under the structure. Failing that, Lijnders - the Liverpool assistant - sounds like a good shout. I’m sure there are some decent European candidates out there, too. 

2. Given the summer spending, top six.

3. Predominantly football reasons - tactically inept, wasted millions, doesn’t know his best XI etc - but I’ve never had time for his bullshit, don’t like how he shirks responsibility, and how it’s everyone else’s fault but his own. 

4. Highly unlikely we’ll be third in five weeks’ time, but if LJ showed any sign at all that’s he’s learnt from past mistakes and the team was playing with cohesion, spirit and anything resembling a plan - not for the first time, I’d be willing to eat humble pie.

5. Depends who the new manager is and what they have to spend. If it’s a proven manager with money to spend, the end of next season is realistic. If it’s a cheap unknown punt like SL prefers, who has to sell high and buy low, they’d have much longer assuming he has a clear plan and sticks to it. If that plan is to bring players through the academy to sell on and there’s no aspiration to get into the PL, so be it. I just hope the club would be honest with its goals and stops misleading the fans with false promises that fuel high expectations.

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3 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Mr Average. But still our best performing manager at this level since his Dad. Better than five other Lansdown picks: Coppell, Millen, McInnes, O'Driscoll and Cotterill.

In the context of the club's history, over the past two years we've been a solid top 10 Championship side teetering on the edge of the play-offs, or in fact spending a fair bit of time in the top 6. Beating Mourinho's Manchester United and reaching the semi-finals of a major domestic cup competition. 

In the context of the club's history these are not "average" achievements, they are very good ones.

Even his time spent as manager - four years - is not average, it's well above average. So excuse me whilst I call bullshit on your "forget who he is the day after he's left" claim.

If you think LJ would have got us out of L1 in 18 months and win the title, you clearly have not got a clue. Stop listening to the rubbish your man  tells you, the club know where you get your nonsense. LJ has only improved with the wage bill and spending. He has achieved zero in his career, nothing. He is average at best and getting worse. He has not created any form of identity throughout the club, yet has been given 4 years. He has been given more money, more time, and more resources than anyone in the clubs history. Unremarkable is his byword. So, if we sacked him tomorrow, you think  he would end up at a top side ? Really ? The football community have his number. He needs to go back and learn his trade. He is SOD Mk 2 , a coach, talks a good game, but will never deliver. Out of his depth, out of ideas, and busted. The football world, and worse, the players know it. 

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4 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Mr Average. But still our best performing manager at this level since his Dad. Better than five other Lansdown picks: Coppell, Millen, McInnes, O'Driscoll and Cotterill.

In the context of the club's history, over the past two years we've been a solid top 10 Championship side teetering on the edge of the play-offs, or in fact spending a fair bit of time in the top 6. Beating Mourinho's Manchester United and reaching the semi-finals of a major domestic cup competition. 

In the context of the club's history these are not "average" achievements, they are very good ones.

Even his time spent as manager - four years - is not average, it's well above average. So excuse me whilst I call bullshit on your "forget who he is the day after he's left" claim.

SL was not in favour of SC being appointed. He gave way to the opinions/preference of others on the board at the time.

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23 minutes ago, Psychopomp said:

If you think LJ would have got us out of L1 in 18 months and win the title, you clearly have not got a clue. Stop listening to the rubbish your man  tells you, the club know where you get your nonsense. LJ has only improved with the wage bill and spending. He has achieved zero in his career, nothing. He is average at best and getting worse. He has not created any form of identity throughout the club, yet has been given 4 years. He has been given more money, more time, and more resources than anyone in the clubs history. Unremarkable is his byword. So, if we sacked him tomorrow, you think  he would end up at a top side ? Really ? The football community have his number. He needs to go back and learn his trade. He is SOD Mk 2 , a coach, talks a good game, but will never deliver. Out of his depth, out of ideas, and busted. The football world, and worse, the players know it. 

great post, well said. :clap::clap:

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What manager would you choose over Johnson and why?  ("its not my job" answer won't cut it.  If you want to call for the manager, you must have a solution)

I like a bit of risk taking, more exciting than taking the safe route.  I'd bring Warnock in straight away until the end of the season, no matter the outcome he'd be gone with my best wishes.  In the meantime, I'd be employing an expert to source me a Manager who offered the best chance of success, from where ever in the world.  I'd want a strong character, who will set a playing identity throughout the club, so that players from the first year in the academy to the first team can move between teams and know whats expected of them, what the style and purpose is.  A man who isn't afraid to set his stamp on the club, to encourage flair and talent, to build from the back, but not sacrificing entertainment.

What league position at this stage of the season would you be happy with? 

Anywhere in the top 8 if we looked likely to be mounting a genuine campaign to finish in the playoffs, with an outside tilt at auto's.  If you don't aim high, whats the point in taking part.....

Is it purely footballing reasons you would like Johnson gone?

Absolutely, nothing against the guy personally.  I haven't seen every game, but every game I have seen convinces me, no excitement, no flair, no identity, it looks fairly disjointed and clueless - if you were a first time visitor to the gate, looking for a club to follow, would whats on offer tempt you back.....

If in 5 weeks time we were 3rd, but still playing the football we are, would you still want him gone? 

If we were third in 5 weeks time, it would mean either everyone above us has lost every game, or somehow Lee manages a totally unforeseeable turnaround, we would have become tight at the back, been scoring freely and that would probably come with increased enjoyment watching it.  Would he be able to sustain it?  I'm not convinced, but if he maintained that to the end of the season, it would be hard not to give him another chance, even though it would be edged with a niggling doubt.  (BTW, if that happens, I will firmly believe that he went down to his shed one morning and found a packet of SAF's chewing gum, that somehow had the same properties that Billy's Boots had for Billy Dane......)

How long would you give a new manager to get us into the playoffs? 

Two seasons.

 

 

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49 minutes ago, Psychopomp said:

If you think LJ would have got us out of L1 in 18 months and win the title, you clearly have not got a clue. Stop listening to the rubbish your man  tells you, the club know where you get your nonsense. LJ has only improved with the wage bill and spending. He has achieved zero in his career, nothing. He is average at best and getting worse. He has not created any form of identity throughout the club, yet has been given 4 years. He has been given more money, more time, and more resources than anyone in the clubs history. Unremarkable is his byword. So, if we sacked him tomorrow, you think  he would end up at a top side ? Really ? The football community have his number. He needs to go back and learn his trade. He is SOD Mk 2 , a coach, talks a good game, but will never deliver. Out of his depth, out of ideas, and busted. The football world, and worse, the players know it. 

well said...to the limited extent that I am ITK what you say matches everything I've been told.

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58 minutes ago, Psychopomp said:

If you think LJ would have got us out of L1 in 18 months and win the title, you clearly have not got a clue. Cotterill was amazing, what he achieved was amazing, but he didn't cut it in the championship. you can make arguments about backing etc. LJ came in and with almost the same side kept us up.  Stop listening to the rubbish your man  tells you, the club know where you get your nonsense KTR has been happy to critisise LJ when necessary you seem to be implying he's some yes man which is ridiculous. LJ has only improved with the wage bill and spending. He has achieved zero in his career, nothing. He is average at best and getting worse. He has not created any form of identity throughout the club, yet has been given 4 years. He has been given more money (and raised more too), more time (off the top of my head Dicks had at least 10 years and think it was more like 12 or 12 and that went pretty well) , and more resources (not sure what your referring to here if not finances?) than anyone in the clubs history. Unremarkable is his byword. So, if we sacked him tomorrow, you think  he would end up at a top side ? Really ? (If we sacked him do you think we would shoot up the table? Most fans at the start of the season said playoffs were wht was expected we are there abouts right now) The football community have his number. He needs to go back and learn his trade. He is SOD Mk 2 , a coach, talks a good game, but will never deliver. Out of his depth, out of ideas, and busted. The football world, and worse, the players know it. 

 

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What manager would you choose over Johnson and why?  ("its not my job" answer won't cut it.  If you want to call for the manager, you must have a solution)

I cannot think of ANY manager in the entire football league given the resources that Johnson has been given that would not have got us in the playoffs for the last three seasons. Clearly he made a huge profit on Webster, but what about his other buys - Kalas seems half the player he was, Massengo and Nagy too. Do we want give LJ more money to devalue more players? I have to say anyone over Johnson would be an improvement, I hate Warnock and Pulis style football but thats currently better than the dross that Johnson is serving up. It seems we were lucky with injuries early in the season, Lee had little choice who he played, the team performed, as soon as he has a choice of players he overthinks things and things go downhill fast.

What league position at this stage of the season would you be happy with? 

If someone new came in mid table would satisfy me if I could see steps being taken for a promotion push next seen

Is it purely footballing reasons you would like Johnson gone?

See my response to 1  a resounding yes

If in 5 weeks time we were 3rd, but still playing the football we are, would you still want him gone? 

Yes, because we could equally be 10th 5 weeks after that

How long would you give a new manager to get us into the playoffs? 

This season and next season.

I have been supporting City since the 60s and was there that wonderful day at Highbury in 1976, and also at Northampton in 1983 when we lost 7-0 or was it 7-1 happy to support the team  but if LJ does not go will think seriously about renewing my season ticket next year

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Say roughly our first team squad is worth 40 odd million. Do we think if we gave 40 mil to another manager over a 3 year period they would have used that money to assemble a promotion worthy team?

As much as I loathe him, Warnock would have got us promoted with those funds. It wouldn’t have been pretty but we would have been up and availing of the riches the Premier League has to offer, and the parachute payments if we dropped out. 
Regardless of the fact that Lee has had to deal with certain players being sold each summer, he has assembled an expensive squad of players. 

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1 hour ago, BCFC Richard said:

 

How much time and money was SC given. Nothing. What BS . So you think LJ could have got us out of L1 in 18 months. Total BS. He did not get any promotion with his previous jobs. Talk sense. He never got a promotion with Oldhgam or Barnsley. Zero. He has a zero success rating.  . 

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20 minutes ago, Psychopomp said:

How much time and money was SC given. Nothing. What BS . So you think LJ could have got us out of L1 in 18 months. Total BS. He did not get any promotion with his previous jobs. Talk sense. He never got a promotion with Oldhgam or Barnsley. Zero. He has a zero success rating.  . 

Firstly I'm  sure we were at least amongst the biggest spenders in league 1 in our promotion season, I'm pretty sure we might actually of been the biggest spenders. In spite of that I don't disagree with you SC should have had more time and couldn't definitely have been backed more. I think he did an amazing job but just becuase we got that wrong doesn't mean we can't move on from there and not make the same mistakes. LJ has improved every club he's managed and then moved on to a bigger club. Just because he hasn't had a promotion doesn't mean he can't or wont. 

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56 minutes ago, publandlord said:

What manager would you choose over Johnson and why?  ("its not my job" answer won't cut it.  If you want to call for the manager, you must have a solution)

I cannot think of ANY manager in the entire football league given the resources that Johnson has been given that would not have got us in the playoffs for the last three seasons. Clearly he made a huge profit on Webster, but what about his other buys - Kalas seems half the player he was, Massengo and Nagy too. Do we want give LJ more money to devalue more players? I have to say anyone over Johnson would be an improvement, I hate Warnock and Pulis style football but thats currently better than the dross that Johnson is serving up. It seems we were lucky with injuries early in the season, Lee had little choice who he played, the team performed, as soon as he has a choice of players he overthinks things and things go downhill fast.

What league position at this stage of the season would you be happy with? 

If someone new came in mid table would satisfy me if I could see steps being taken for a promotion push next seen

Is it purely footballing reasons you would like Johnson gone?

See my response to 1  a resounding yes

If in 5 weeks time we were 3rd, but still playing the football we are, would you still want him gone? 

Yes, because we could equally be 10th 5 weeks after that

How long would you give a new manager to get us into the playoffs? 

This season and next season.

I have been supporting City since the 60s and was there that wonderful day at Highbury in 1976, and also at Northampton in 1983 when we lost 7-0 or was it 7-1 happy to support the team  but if LJ does not go will think seriously about renewing my season ticket next year

7:1, it was.

 

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13 hours ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

The 1000 pounds I spend on 3 season tickets every year no longer feels like it represents value for money.

I don't care where we are in the league right now and how many points we tend to pick up away from home, Johnson consistently fails to deliver in front of his paying public and for that reason alone I want him gone ... or after 10 straight years I will seriously consider spending my money on something else.

Oh dear, you don't remember Pulis then I take it? That said it was only half a season! 

Always assumed you'd supported or been going to City longer than 10 years...value for money or perception thereof is of course down to the individual, personally I think decent aspects of the game here in general are overpriced but there we go. 

O'Driscoll was certainly worse when weighting for division etc, Cotts half season at this level, McInnes, Millen,  caretaker stint aside...the Coppell debacle. 

Interested in why now is the tipping point for you.

Take it you don't recall Benny, the 8 years in League One, incorporating as it did Pulis and Tinnion reigns. 

I'm not necessarily pro LJ in but we've seen quite a bit worse!

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11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

As far as i’m aware / we’ve been told, MA is Lee’s boss, he runs the Football Operations, Lee the playing side (all generally speaking).  As part of Football Operations, MA runs the Recruitment Team.  That must consist of Analysts and Scouts (and I guess some other related roles).

If we just focus initially on players coming in - Recruitment includes player identification.  This will / must have several strands / sources:

- players trawled against the Database having been given a brief (e.g. Eliasson met the ‘find me a Knockaert’ brief), presumably by LJ and his team which could include Academy Coaches too

- players added by LJ / other key staff, e.g. he fancies Dack

- players added by Scouts / Agents, including those where a recent conversation have revealed player x might be available, in unsettled etc

- players added by say Analysts as a result of seeing others when looking at the targets given to them

That gets you into the funnel.

The Analysts and Scouts go to work and refine that list.  Dack might stay on that list, because it’s a specific recommendation from LJ.

LJ and his team may also go and watch players, rather than rely on just data or scout reports

Funnel removes more players.

At that point, you are starting to think about approaches (assuming rules not been broken beforehand!!)

MA more involved at this point, but may use LJ’s football knowledge to assist or even take the lead (Tammy home visit).

When financials are the next stage, then SL/JL involved.

It won’t run straight through like that everytime, but that is how it has been communicated to us, with LJ stating that he has final say whether he go for a player.  Personally, I can’t believe MA would take a proposal to SL without LJ’s backing.  Both would look stupid.

So how do we get to a position where people with more insight into City than me, can openly suggest that LJ is getting players he didn’t want, or even on Twitter today suggest the Recruitment Team signed Diedhiou.  I just can’t accept, our head-coach would just accept a £5.3m record signing being added to his squad.  I’m not suggesting he doesn’t know the player, I’m being told is wasn’t an LJ signing.

If that is the case I go back to my earlier posts, that LJ should be issuing an ultimatum, either he gets to decide or he walks.

Dont get me wrong I’m not naive to forget SL’s interference with David James.  If he hasn’t moved on from that style of ownership,  then we have been suckered!

 

 

Isn't that how modern football transfers often work though? Or would it if as described be a particularly extreme case?

Should also add, regardless of who signed who, I believe this squad to a) Be capable of better, more convincing and cohesive football and b) Be capable of a genuine playoff push.

I remember the Dack link though, he could've been a real coup and with major profit potential too! How do we know though he might not have developed as hoped...our record can be patchy.

Would question our strategy on Adelakun and Eisa to name two...in terms of loans too late, both from development and value POV. 

Dack aside, if it's as described then I do have some sympathy with LJ but it certainly doesn't exonerate him IMO.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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We don't need to convince you of anything. 

If you can't see it for yourself, that's fine. Enjoy your opinion.

I envy you. I wish that I couldn't see it either.

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When Cotts took over.  He assembled a TEAM.  They played a certain way.   I suspect not everyone in the team was his #1 choice (just law of averages).

But he seemed to have a plan as to what his team was.  How they should play.  Then coached the team how to do it on the pitch.

I know it was a different league/time/budget etc.  But I don't see that LJ has done the same.

 

On the flipside Cotts didn't do as much in regards integrating academy players into the first team (from what I remember).  

 

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33 minutes ago, soultrader said:

When Cotts took over.  He assembled a TEAM.  They played a certain way.   I suspect not everyone in the team was his #1 choice (just law of averages).

But he seemed to have a plan as to what his team was.  How they should play.  Then coached the team how to do it on the pitch.

I know it was a different league/time/budget etc.  But I don't see that LJ has done the same.

 

On the flipside Cotts didn't do as much in regards integrating academy players into the first team (from what I remember).  

 

Apart from Bryan, giving burns a chance 

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I can’t believe the answers to question 4. If we are 3rd you would still want him gone the majority of you. Wow really? No other supporters of a club 3rd in the league would want their manager out. And you wonder why people suggest it’s personal

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2 minutes ago, Matty_Taylor_is_god said:

I can’t believe the answers to question 4. If we are 3rd you would still want him gone the majority of you. Wow really? No other supporters of a club 3rd in the league would want their manager out. And you wonder why people suggest it’s personal

Barcelona are top of La Liga 

their fans wanted their manager sacked because of performances and poor player recruitment

barcalona just sacked there manager and replaced him because of performance and poor player recruitment 

Edited by Monkeh
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2 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Barcelona are top of La Liga 

their fans wanted their manager sacked because of performances and poor player recruitment

barcalona just sacked there manager and replaced him because of performance and poor player recruitment 

We aren’t Barcelona. Barcelona fans can have that entitlement because they are one of the biggest clubs in the world. 

Im happy we are 1 point off the playoffs in a very competitive league given our stature and I would be ecstatic if we were 3rd in 5 weeks.

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2 minutes ago, Matty_Taylor_is_god said:

We aren’t Barcelona. Barcelona fans can have that entitlement because they are one of the biggest clubs in the world. 

Im happy we are 1 point off the playoffs in a very competitive league given our stature and I would be ecstatic if we were 3rd in 5 weeks.

But you said you couldn’t believe it and it had to be personal so I pointed out that there are fans that do feel like that

im sorry if facts get in the way of your conspiracy theory 

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37 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

But you said you couldn’t believe it and it had to be personal so I pointed out that there are fans that do feel like that

im sorry if facts get in the way of your conspiracy theory 

But the fans that feel like that must be incredibly entitled.

Sorry to break it to you, but Bristol City are arguably not even one of the top 30 biggest clubs in the country. So if we were sitting 3rd, even 9th in our current position, everyone should be happy. Yet there are all these weird folk on here who seem to be unable to feel that emotion.

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