Did the players let us down last night?

[RedM]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Serious question...what tactics did LJ employ last night that were so ineffective? Were they so different to any other occasion where we have played well and won?

But how many times have we honestly played well and won. Have we really played teams off the park with exciting, flowing, positive football? Listening to people on the coach last night on the way back nobody was truely surprised by the result, but didn’t appreciate the standard of the football this season.

I thought we were bloody awful at Wigan last week, and won. I think. We planned to do the same last night, wear the opposition down by keeping the ball and frustrating them and going for a late dramatic goal. Trouble is Shrewsbury thought they would do the same.

[Rob k]

7 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

If these ‘professional footballers’ don’t know how to move or create angles then surely Lee and the recruitment team must take some of the responsibility? What type of players are they bringing in?

This squad is very much LJ’s and has been for a while now. He is now into his 4th season and I’m really struggling to see where we’re going? 

The squad is extremely bloated and it looks as though the coaching staff still can’t get the best out of the players that we already have. We continue to throw money away with very little return in terms of results and performances on the pitch. 

 

The squad is horrendously unbalanced - we counted 9 players that could play in the same position last night!!

[spudski]

20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

I agree with you on many points.

Didn't LJ recently say in an interview that he understands the fans thoughts, but we don't know the reasons why certain players are dropped or picked, or a system adopted? 

We simply don't know.

I've said on numerous thread that our recruitment brings in talented players that we feel are too good to turn down, or talented but not the finished article. We then try to develop and adapt them into our systems.

People have been clamering for Palmer and Eliasson to start.

Eliasson fits a 442...which above is castigated.

And Palmer seems completely off his game regardless of what system is used.

We could go on looking at the strengths and weaknesses of each player.

Imo...all talented individuals on their day, but not complimenting one another.

I'll take an Individual... Eliasson. He can beat his man and deliver a cross. Of which stats state you need approx 9 crosses before a goal is scored.

Why in his development here, hasn't he added to his game by beating his man and playing slide rule passes through the box? Why is hardly anything to feet? I don't understand that stagnation. Why are we so reliant on crosses?

We saw our strengths in the forward line when Pato, Weimann and Famara linked from a deeper position recently. Running at defenders with one touch football, breaking the lines. That is our strength.

I went off on a tangent there...but I'm sure you get the gist

[Phileas Fogg]

22 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

If these ‘professional footballers’ don’t know how to move or create angles then surely Lee and the recruitment team must take some of the responsibility? What type of players are they bringing in?

This squad is very much LJ’s and has been for a while now. He is now into his 4th season and I’m really struggling to see where we’re going? 

The squad is extremely bloated and it looks as though the coaching staff still can’t get the best out of the players that we already have. We continue to throw money away with very little return in terms of results and performances on the pitch. 

 

Is it that bloated? It apparently has 31 senior players which someone on here calculated was about average in this league

[Davefevs]

29 minutes ago, spudski said:

I agree with you on many points.

Didn't LJ recently say in an interview that he understands the fans thoughts, but we don't know the reasons why certain players are dropped or picked, or a system adopted? 

We simply don't know.

I've said on numerous thread that our recruitment brings in talented players that we feel are too good to turn down, or talented but not the finished article. We then try to develop and adapt them into our systems.

People have been clamering for Palmer and Eliasson to start.

Eliasson fits a 442...which above is castigated.

And Palmer seems completely off his game regardless of what system is used.

We could go on looking at the strengths and weaknesses of each player.

Imo...all talented individuals on their day, but not complimenting one another.

I'll take an Individual... Eliasson. He can beat his man and deliver a cross. Of which stats state you need approx 9 crosses before a goal is scored.

Why in his development here, hasn't he added to his game by beating his man and playing slide rule passes through the box? Why is hardly anything to feet? I don't understand that stagnation. Why are we so reliant on crosses?

We saw our strengths in the forward line when Pato, Weimann and Famara linked from a deeper position recently. Running at defenders with one touch football, breaking the lines. That is our strength.

I went off on a tangent there...but I'm sure you get the gist

Agree with all of that.

[Harry]

2 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

The level of defence for LJ on here from some absolutely beggars belief. 
 

Yeh... we’ve been playing shit for 18 months at home because of the players. Nothing to do with the tactics. Poor LJ. 
 

Kalas is shit. He’s Definitely not won a couple of promotions from this league. 
 

Baker/Weimann shit. Definitely never played top flight football. 
 

Eliasson. Shit. LJ’s treatment of him proves that. 
 

Jay Dasilva. Shit. 
 

Williams. Defo not a fairly (Comparatively) decorated international defender. 
 

Massengo/Nagy/Korey Smith. Yep all shit too. Definitely not good enough. 
 

it’s always someone else’s fault. Never Johnson’s. 

 

But we’re always shit at home. Whatever team, pretty much always shit. But it couldn’t possibly be anything to do with Johnson. 
 

I’m seriously starting to wonder if some people take backhanded perks to keep up the LJ in faction. 
 

This country. 
 

I personally have not defended LJ in this thread. The question though was “are the players to blame” and in my opinion last night they were. 
In answer to your other erratic points :  
Kalas - isn’t shit, but hasn’t been fit all season. 
Baker - isn’t shit, is our best CB, but is regularly a let-down with his fitness. 
Weimann - Isn’t shit, but isn’t of Prem quality as you mention. He’s a runner, a heads down player with little true quality, but isn’t shit as you say. But he was last night. 
Eliasson - isn’t shit, but he was last night. 
JD - isn’t shit, but hasn’t been fit all season. 
Williams - is shit, and was last night. 
Massengo - isn’t shit, but isn’t experienced either. And didn’t play last night. 
Nagy - isn’t shit, but isn’t yet up to the speed of English football, isn’t fit, and was shit last night. 
Smith - isn’t shit, but hasn’t been fit for a year. 
 

LJ - isn’t shit, has plenty to do to put things right, but wasn’t as shit last night as the players. 

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

At what point in last nights game does the person in charge of the team out there (LJ) intervene, show leadership and do something about it?

I don’t have a problem with players taking some blame for last night (we don’t need to agree how much), but for you to say it is all their fault is imho you admitting that our head-coach has no influence on proceedings.  If our own Head-Coach takes the same view of last night as you have, and lays it squarely at the feet of the players, then he will as they say “lose the dressing room” (a phrase I dislike).

I’m actually pretty shocked that you’ve passed the buck so easily and so fully.

Hey-ho...opinions.

I’m neither pro LJ not anti LJ at the moment Dave. I’m not passing the buck for him. He’s got plenty to prove to turn this form around. But performances by many of the players recently have been poor. Last night in particular. 
Baker going off injured forces one sub. Thereby leaving a restriction to change the game too early. Use 2 more subs early and potentially have extra time? Or have confidence that players who should do better might actually do better? 
Last night was not Lj’s fault. But I’m also not going to defend him to the hilt - he’s making mistakes, but he’s not fully at fault. 

2 hours ago, BobbyC said:

The tactics are side pass,side pass,side pass,back.

There were may times last night when the ball could and should have been bought out off defence and into space but the players looked afraid to do so and once again went sideways or back.

Williams in particular.

 

Do you really think those are the tactics LJ set his team out to do. Pass it sideways, sideways and then lose it? 
Perhaps there were too many players off their game and there were no passing options, or if there were, they were poorly executed. 
What I saw was a lack of movement, a lack of mental awareness and a lack of quality. 
We know our players DO have these things in their lockers, but they didn’t bring them last night. 

2 hours ago, Redrascal2 said:

Yes players let us down because they lost the game and were  not good enough. But these attempts to teflon coat Johnson astound me. If you are managing in any profession you carry the can. That is what you are paid for. If you do not like taking the responsibility then don't take the job or the money. In football terms if Johnson was managing a team that he had inherited then fair play I would accept he has reduced responsibility. But when he had signed the players spent 4 years getting them to play with the Johnson identity then it is totally down to him. For example he had continued to play Diedhiou in spite of him regularly missing goals he should convert so when he does it against Shrewsbury then responsibility lays with Johnson because he should not be in the team. He has created a team that have not got the character to deal with pressure games.  We fall away at the end of the season when in good positions to reach the playoffs because of this. When a great time against Liverpool is the reward the team haven't got the bottle or determination to see it out. If we have the most talented group of players for some time then why are they performing like this. Johnson should know why. The fact he  continually  has no answers  to this says it all 

Yes, LJ absolutely carries the can in the end. No one is Teflon coating him. There is fair criticism from many quarters, but there’s also somewhat extreme views to get him out when he isn’t at that point for many yet. 
Plenty to prove, certainly not beyond criticism, but the criticism ought to be fair, and certainly, in view of the thread title, the players should bear the main bulk of the responsibility last night. 
You mention that he persists with Fam despite him missing lots of chances. Who should he play up top then? He doesn’t have too many options up there to be fair. He tried Weimann up there at West Brom away and we looked as poor as I’ve seen. No other options really is there. 

2 hours ago, Allwaysred said:

Same tactics same out come.... players aren't performance as they should because half simply aren't good enough and the others don't believe in LJ. One thing that gets me is we are so defensive but yet we're so open and still back off. It was a great strike last night but again why did he have so much room and it's not the 1st time this season we've seen this. He wants to play from the back but we simply don't have the quality players to do so and get closed down. Midfield is weak with not 1 leader / ball player or winner as JB plays so deep and up front we have AW who runs his heart out but no goal scorer same problems we've had for 4 transfer windows. And we are truly awful from throw ins no movement especially this season. We are simply not good enough in key area's.

You ask why the guy had so much room for that strike. 
Josh Brownhill. 
When the ball goes back to Pierre, Josh is in a decent position, able to screen the CB’s, closing off any penetration through the middle. 
But he decides to go on a wander and chase another bloke out wide to the right. 
He leaves behind a huge hole, easily exploited by a centre back, playing a 1-2 and then a wonder strike. 
Whilst this 1-2 is occurring, Josh watches it unfold and bounces up and down a couple of times. No nous or desire whatsoever to close down the massive gap infront of our CB’s that he himself was responsible for. 
This wasn’t a managerial tactic. Brownhill had himself in a good position and vacated it to chase what he thought was his man rather than be aware of the game situation and what was around and behind him. I’m sure LJ didn’t tell him to do that. It was a player switching off, simple as that. 
You are correct - our midfield is very, very, very weak. 

1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

Players are confused by the tactics and way they are being asked to play

I can’t see what hugely confusing tactics LJ was asking of his players last night. Their inability to move and pass was at fault, I don’t think LJ’s tactics were “don’t move about and be shit in everything you do”. Basics. 

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

If you do want to look at a player it would be interesting to get Dan Bentleys perspective of the goal. Weak as piss goalkeeping I thought.

He’s been our most outstanding performer this season and has literally kept us in most games. 
Whether he should’ve got across a bit quicker is fair. And you go on to state that Moore & Williams would’ve expected him to save it, well Bentley wouldn’t have been expecting a centre back to shoot from 30 yards with no one attempting to block it. I’m sure he wasn’t correctly set for it as he was not anticipating a shot. 
However, at the moment Bentley escapes all criticism for me as he’s been our player of the season by a country mile. 
He’s the only one who has earned any slack. 

[Cowshed]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

 

His tactics aren't anything drastically different to what any other Club is doing in this division.

 

 

WBA have used two formations this season.

Bristol City seven.

That's is drastically different.

[Numero Uno]

3 minutes ago, Harry said:. 

He’s been our most outstanding performer this season and has literally kept us in most games. 
Whether he should’ve got across a bit quicker is fair. And you go on to state that Moore & Williams whosoever expected him to save it, well Bentley wouldn’t have been expecting a centre back to shoot from 30 yards with no one attempting to block it. I’m sure he wasn’t correctly set for it as he was not anticipating a shot. 
However, at the moment Bentley escapes all criticism for me as he’s been our player of the season by a country mile. 
He’s the only one who has earned any slack. 

Can’t argue with the last bit tbf. The other point is that a GK has every right to expect others to get him out the shit when he makes a mistake in the same way he will make a great save to get others out of the shit......

[Rob k]

23 minutes ago, Harry said:

I personally have not defended LJ in this thread. The question though was “are the players to blame” and in my opinion last night they were. 
In answer to your other erratic points :  
Kalas - isn’t shit, but hasn’t been fit all season. 
Baker - isn’t shit, is our best CB, but is regularly a let-down with his fitness. 
Weimann - Isn’t shit, but isn’t of Prem quality as you mention. He’s a runner, a heads down player with little true quality, but isn’t shit as you say. But he was last night. 
Eliasson - isn’t shit, but he was last night. 
JD - isn’t shit, but hasn’t been fit all season. 
Williams - is shit, and was last night. 
Massengo - isn’t shit, but isn’t experienced either. And didn’t play last night. 
Nagy - isn’t shit, but isn’t yet up to the speed of English football, isn’t fit, and was shit last night. 
Smith - isn’t shit, but hasn’t been fit for a year. 
 

LJ - isn’t shit, has plenty to do to put things right, but wasn’t as shit last night as the players. 

I’m neither pro LJ not anti LJ at the moment Dave. I’m not passing the buck for him. He’s got plenty to prove to turn this form around. But performances by many of the players recently have been poor. Last night in particular. 
Baker going off injured forces one sub. Thereby leaving a restriction to change the game too early. Use 2 more subs early and potentially have extra time? Or have confidence that players who should do better might actually do better? 
Last night was not Lj’s fault. But I’m also not going to defend him to the hilt - he’s making mistakes, but he’s not fully at fault. 

Do you really think those are the tactics LJ set his team out to do. Pass it sideways, sideways and then lose it? 
Perhaps there were too many players off their game and there were no passing options, or if there were, they were poorly executed. 
What I saw was a lack of movement, a lack of mental awareness and a lack of quality. 
We know our players DO have these things in their lockers, but they didn’t bring them last night. 

Yes, LJ absolutely carries the can in the end. No one is Teflon coating him. There is fair criticism from many quarters, but there’s also somewhat extreme views to get him out when he isn’t at that point for many yet. 
Plenty to prove, certainly not beyond criticism, but the criticism ought to be fair, and certainly, in view of the thread title, the players should bear the main bulk of the responsibility last night. 
You mention that he persists with Fam despite him missing lots of chances. Who should he play up top then? He doesn’t have too many options up there to be fair. He tried Weimann up there at West Brom away and we looked as poor as I’ve seen. No other options really is there. 

You ask why the guy had so much room for that strike. 
Josh Brownhill. 
When the ball goes back to Pierre, Josh is in a decent position, able to screen the CB’s, closing off any penetration through the middle. 
But he decides to go on a wander and chase another bloke out wide to the right. 
He leaves behind a huge hole, easily exploited by a centre back, playing a 1-2 and then a wonder strike. 
Whilst this 1-2 is occurring, Josh watches it unfold and bounces up and down a couple of times. No nous or desire whatsoever to close down the massive gap infront of our CB’s that he himself was responsible for. 
This wasn’t a managerial tactic. Brownhill had himself in a good position and vacated it to chase what he thought was his man rather than be aware of the game situation and what was around and behind him. I’m sure LJ didn’t tell him to do that. It was a player switching off, simple as that. 
You are correct - our midfield is very, very, very weak. 

I can’t see what hugely confusing tactics LJ was asking of his players last night. Their inability to move and pass was at fault, I don’t think LJ’s tactics were “don’t move about and be shit in everything you do”. Basics. 

He’s been our most outstanding performer this season and has literally kept us in most games. 
Whether he should’ve got across a bit quicker is fair. And you go on to state that Moore & Williams would’ve expected him to save it, well Bentley wouldn’t have been expecting a centre back to shoot from 30 yards with no one attempting to block it. I’m sure he wasn’t correctly set for it as he was not anticipating a shot. 
However, at the moment Bentley escapes all criticism for me as he’s been our player of the season by a country mile. 
He’s the only one who has earned any slack. 

That’s his 4th mistake in the last month or so to be fair not including Saturdays kick v Wigan 

[bcfcredandwhite]

In answer to the original post - YES

[Allwaysred]

36 minutes ago, Harry said:

I personally have not defended LJ in this thread. The question though was “are the players to blame” and in my opinion last night they were. 
In answer to your other erratic points :  
Kalas - isn’t shit, but hasn’t been fit all season. 
Baker - isn’t shit, is our best CB, but is regularly a let-down with his fitness. 
Weimann - Isn’t shit, but isn’t of Prem quality as you mention. He’s a runner, a heads down player with little true quality, but isn’t shit as you say. But he was last night. 
Eliasson - isn’t shit, but he was last night. 
JD - isn’t shit, but hasn’t been fit all season. 
Williams - is shit, and was last night. 
Massengo - isn’t shit, but isn’t experienced either. And didn’t play last night. 
Nagy - isn’t shit, but isn’t yet up to the speed of English football, isn’t fit, and was shit last night. 
Smith - isn’t shit, but hasn’t been fit for a year. 
 

LJ - isn’t shit, has plenty to do to put things right, but wasn’t as shit last night as the players. 

I’m neither pro LJ not anti LJ at the moment Dave. I’m not passing the buck for him. He’s got plenty to prove to turn this form around. But performances by many of the players recently have been poor. Last night in particular. 
Baker going off injured forces one sub. Thereby leaving a restriction to change the game too early. Use 2 more subs early and potentially have extra time? Or have confidence that players who should do better might actually do better? 
Last night was not Lj’s fault. But I’m also not going to defend him to the hilt - he’s making mistakes, but he’s not fully at fault. 

Do you really think those are the tactics LJ set his team out to do. Pass it sideways, sideways and then lose it? 
Perhaps there were too many players off their game and there were no passing options, or if there were, they were poorly executed. 
What I saw was a lack of movement, a lack of mental awareness and a lack of quality. 
We know our players DO have these things in their lockers, but they didn’t bring them last night. 

Yes, LJ absolutely carries the can in the end. No one is Teflon coating him. There is fair criticism from many quarters, but there’s also somewhat extreme views to get him out when he isn’t at that point for many yet. 
Plenty to prove, certainly not beyond criticism, but the criticism ought to be fair, and certainly, in view of the thread title, the players should bear the main bulk of the responsibility last night. 
You mention that he persists with Fam despite him missing lots of chances. Who should he play up top then? He doesn’t have too many options up there to be fair. He tried Weimann up there at West Brom away and we looked as poor as I’ve seen. No other options really is there. 

You ask why the guy had so much room for that strike. 
Josh Brownhill. 
When the ball goes back to Pierre, Josh is in a decent position, able to screen the CB’s, closing off any penetration through the middle. 
But he decides to go on a wander and chase another bloke out wide to the right. 
He leaves behind a huge hole, easily exploited by a centre back, playing a 1-2 and then a wonder strike. 
Whilst this 1-2 is occurring, Josh watches it unfold and bounces up and down a couple of times. No nous or desire whatsoever to close down the massive gap infront of our CB’s that he himself was responsible for. 
This wasn’t a managerial tactic. Brownhill had himself in a good position and vacated it to chase what he thought was his man rather than be aware of the game situation and what was around and behind him. I’m sure LJ didn’t tell him to do that. It was a player switching off, simple as that. 
You are correct - our midfield is very, very, very weak. 

I can’t see what hugely confusing tactics LJ was asking of his players last night. Their inability to move and pass was at fault, I don’t think LJ’s tactics were “don’t move about and be shit in everything you do”. Basics. 

He’s been our most outstanding performer this season and has literally kept us in most games. 
Whether he should’ve got across a bit quicker is fair. And you go on to state that Moore & Williams would’ve expected him to save it, well Bentley wouldn’t have been expecting a centre back to shoot from 30 yards with no one attempting to block it. I’m sure he wasn’t correctly set for it as he was not anticipating a shot. 
However, at the moment Bentley escapes all criticism for me as he’s been our player of the season by a country mile. 
He’s the only one who has earned any slack. 

This isn't new though not closing down it's happened for ages Sunderland at home Derby away Preston away Barnsley away all from different seasons under LJ the list goes on. All basic mistakes and still happening. How many home games this season have we all seen us get deeper and deeper and predictable and get found out?? Too many. Why?? Because that's how LJ has set them up and the players don't believe in it. Hence why we've gone through 60 players in that time. Bottom line it's LJ players he's bought and it's his philosophy DNA what ever and the players aren't responding they simply don't believe init and he's out of ideas to change another slide. 

[Redsi2]

Im still angry from last night. I for one will find it extremely difficult standing up and applauding the players when they come out on Saturday after yesterday. I think I will just have to stay in my seat and enjoy my Clarks pie.

[CityCiderEd]

57 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

WBA have used two formations this season.

Bristol City seven.

That's is drastically different.

Just looked at LJ's stats when he was manager at Barnsley and in 42 games he used 10 different formations................

[Allwaysred]

4 minutes ago, CityCiderEd said:

Just looked at LJ's stats when he was manager at Barnsley and in 42 games he used 10 different formations................

Exactly why he can't get the basics right.

[Guest]

When we play well or win games I give all the credit to Johnson.

When we are play terrible I blame Johnson.

He buys the players. He coaches them. He picks the tactics, the team. It's his responsibility.

If it were the players fault then whoever the manager is would make no difference. As it's the players fault, not the manager. Which is obviously not true.

A different manager, let's say Bielsa would set us up completely differently to how LJ does, so we'd play completely differently to what we see every week.

It would not even be close to what we are seeing at the moment. It's 100% down to LJ.

I understand he has been unfortunate with Afobe. We should have brought in another.

But with what we have got he has to adapt. He is not really doing that. He keeps making the same mistakes. We can see he is making mistakes by all the changes mid game, often at half time or early second half he makes.

[Chivs]

4 hours ago, spudski said:

Anti 'Dave'? Behave yourself...got no problem with Dave...I agree with most of his posts...top bloke.

As for Fammy...he is totally inconsistent and lacks correct movement. One game unplayable...5 like a rank amateur.

I'm not anti Fammy...I like him and his effort and heart. But he lacks the consistency and natural intelligence of a forwards movement.

So wind her neck in and read my posts correctly with the intention they are meant.

I'm not anti anyone FFS...idiot

Dave is the name some idiots on here give to Diedhiou.  It's nothing to do with any individual on here.  I'm lumping you in with those idiots.

Perhaps you'd like to read my post and state how high up the "goals scored" table you'd like us to be before you'd accept our strikers as perhaps not the problem.

As to the highlighted bit, I've just looked up the word "ironic" in the dictionary....

 

[StGeorge]

5 hours ago, grifty said:

Still, I'll be there to enjoy the ride whether its good or bad.

Thing is,  I'm  not enjoying the ride at the moment, good or bad...

 

[Cowshed]

45 minutes ago, CityCiderEd said:

Just looked at LJ's stats when he was manager at Barnsley and in 42 games he used 10 different formations................

I've wondered if 4-3-3 will appear at some point to make it an eight this season. I simply thought the statement odd. Football teams differ significantly tactically in the championship. 

[Superjack]

7 hours ago, spudski said:

We created enough chances to win the game.

Problem is, if you've got a forward who can't hit a barn door from a few yards you aren't going to win games. You can only create so many chances.

It's purely down to consistency of quality imo...not the tactics. Too many players have quality on their day, but their day isn't consistent enough.

Yesterday we created the chances and our forward messed em up. Score them and we win easily.

Other days we don't create chances because of the total lack of movement into the correct areas in the final third.

All these problems of consistent inconsistency have a knock on effect and the pressure builds.

Nothing wrong with LJs tactics...the problem is recruiting players that aren't up to getting the job done on a consistent basis.

Too many rough diamonds that need developing.

Our front line needs moving on and replacing imo...all effort and heart but not enough quality where it matters.

"Nothing wrong with LJ's tactics".

And you put yourself forward as an authority on football here.

I'm no authority, but even I can tell that there is nothing right with Johnson's tactics. If you can even call them that.

[Up The City!]

5 hours ago, spudski said:

You can see when you watch what they are trying to do.

The problem is doing it well on a regular basis. The players don't.

I'm glad you watch and you can see what they are trying to do. I also watch, I watch quite intently and yet for the life of me I cant see what they are trying to do other than playing it around the back and trying not to lose. So please do enlighten us all what we are trying to do? What you can see that no one but yourself can see. Thanks in advance.

[Monkeh]

6 hours ago, Cowshed said:

I've wondered if 4-3-3 will appear at some point to make it an eight this season. I simply thought the statement odd. Football teams differ significantly tactically in the championship. 

It’s been posted on here for a while now so yea it will

[Tipps69]

11 hours ago, spudski said:

We created enough chances to win the game.

Problem is, if you've got a forward who can't hit a barn door from a few yards you aren't going to win games. You can only create so many chances.

It's purely down to consistency of quality imo...not the tactics. Too many players have quality on their day, but their day isn't consistent enough.

Yesterday we created the chances and our forward messed em up. Score them and we win easily.

Other days we don't create chances because of the total lack of movement into the correct areas in the final third.

All these problems of consistent inconsistency have a knock on effect and the pressure builds.

Nothing wrong with LJs tactics...the problem is recruiting players that aren't up to getting the job done on a consistent basis.

Too many rough diamonds that need developing.

Our front line needs moving on and replacing imo...all effort and heart but not enough quality where it matters.

Let’s not just put the blame at Diedhiou’s door, Weimann has supposedly been playing as a striker for months as well & how many goals has he scored or how many opportunities is he in a position to get on the end of each game?

For me, the intensity has gone, we have a keeper that can distribute a ball quickly & yet 99% of the time the ball is rolled to our 2 least natural ball players, who then in turn slow play down further while they play back & forth to each other across the penalty area while the opposition have all got back into position while they await our eventual long punt forward to Diedhiou who is then left to fight for the ball against 2,3 or 4 defenders on his own!

We have become far too predictable, the opposition don’t have to worry about us catching them on the break because we simply don’t play quick enough from any situation, be that from Bentley’s hands, a throw-in or a quickly taken free-kick! There were numerous times against Shrewsbury (in particular) that Diedhiou & Eliasson had made runs while the ball is being fannied about with between Williams & Baker & they were left frustrated because the ball simply never came & after making those runs a few times each, it’s easy to become despondent as you wonder what the point is in making these runs, knowing the ball is never coming!!

Having a pass completion percentage of 90%+ is pointless is if it’s done at 1mph on the edge of our own area while giving us possession stats because it’s simply not allowing us to create anything, Bentley very rarely gets the ball in his hands & sends somebody chasing a long ball over the top while the oppositions defence is unorganised, we’ve played with 4 attackers in recent months & yet they are stood waiting for something to get their teeth into, now is the time to stop this playing out from the back where it takes 3 minutes & 30 passes before the ball gets to the halfway line & shock the opposition by putting the ball over the top. Don’t get me wrong, if we’re winning then by all means slow play down & keep possession but invariably this season, we haven’t been on the front foot enough to be leading at halftime or anywhere around there. We basically play to still be 0-0 at 70 minutes or hope that by some miracle we’ve managed to sneak a goal ourselves but invariably we go behind & only then do we show a bit of energy & emergency by actually getting the ball forward quicker.

We have gone from a team that was getting rave reviews for our footballing style 2 years ago to a side that is now boring even it’s own fans! Could that be because too much emphasis is put on stats, pass completion percentages & possession stats or is it because the players aren’t fit for purpose to do what’s needed & by that I mean having 2 non ball playing centre-halves who don’t have the ability on the ball to get an attack going? 

And moving on from where I’d say our problems stem from, you clearly don’t rate Diedhiou but given our options within our squad, who would you suggest could do a better job than him in the current situation? There is no one else, Semenyo was given an opportunity & showed no signs of wanting to play as a striker let alone any enthusiasm to be in the team. Weimann despite supposedly playing as a striker for the majority of time over recent months at the very least is very rarely actually ever seen trying to lead our front line & then that left Rodri! Who else is there to help take the pressure off of Diedhiou, to give him a rest, to help take some of the oppositions defenders away from him during a match? For the limited amount of chances we create during a match, his goal return isn’t bad & his overall performances haven’t been bad, I dread to think how much worse things could be if we didn’t have him up front for us right now!
 

[Tipps69]

10 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

I’ve watched it several times and it’s either poor foot movement or positioning or both meaning he never got close to a 25 yard daisy cutter with a full length dive.....

Williams and Moore in front of him had every right to expect that to be saved.

It wasn’t a ‘daisy cutter’ as you call it, the ball didn’t touch the grass until it hit the back of the net, so wasn’t slowed down by the heavy conditions. I wouldn’t blame Bentley for their goal, no one was probably expecting their centre half to come forward & hit a ball that has broken to him about 30 yards out first time, it’s probably about as likely as Baker or Williams doing similar for us & if they did, it would probably be more of a worry for the stewards in the car park than it would for the oppositions keeper!

It was a more than decent strike by someone that no one probably expected it from that came through a crowd of players. With a minute to go, he took a gamble & it paid off handsomely for him, fair play to the guy.

[Bristol Oil Services]

12 hours ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Either the players have no confidence in the tactics or there are no tactics.

I would think it is because the players are low on confidence, that the tactics appear to be lacking

 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

Some great posts on this thread.  Perhaps the first time this season that I’ve felt that posters are really getting to the heart of what seems to be going wrong.  For me there are three issues (apart from our ludicrous injury record):  the obvious weakness up front; the lack of an incisive midfield player who can play the ‘killer pass’ (which should be Palmer, who has been a terrible let-down); and Johnson bowing to pressure to play Eliasson.  I do think the root of all of this is the Afobe injury, and since then we’ve been fire-fighting in attack.  Given that and other injuries, we’re actually doing way better than we should be, but we desperately need a striker or two now.

[Numero Uno]

28 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Some great posts on this thread.  Perhaps the first time this season that I’ve felt that posters are really getting to the heart of what seems to be going wrong.  For me there are three issues (apart from our ludicrous injury record):  the obvious weakness up front; the lack of an incisive midfield player who can play the ‘killer pass’ (which should be Palmer, who has been a terrible let-down); and Johnson bowing to pressure to play Eliasson.  I do think the root of all of this is the Afobe injury, and since then we’ve been fire-fighting in attack.  Given that and other injuries, we’re actually doing way better than we should be, but we desperately need a striker or two now.

If we didn’t play Eliasson where would our goals come from? Go back over the season so far.

[Monkeh]

2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

If we didn’t play Eliasson where would our goals come from? Go back over the season so far.

The point he is trying to make is that Johnson doesn’t want to play him, hence why he was always on the bench

it was only until the fans became more vocal about it that Johnson finally gave him a regular start

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, Tipps69 said:

It wasn’t a ‘daisy cutter’ as you call it, the ball didn’t touch the grass until it hit the back of the net, so wasn’t slowed down by the heavy conditions. I wouldn’t blame Bentley for their goal, no one was probably expecting their centre half to come forward & hit a ball that has broken to him about 30 yards out first time, it’s probably about as likely as Baker or Williams doing similar for us & if they did, it would probably be more of a worry for the stewards in the car park than it would for the oppositions keeper!

It was a more than decent strike by someone that no one probably expected it from that came through a crowd of players. With a minute to go, he took a gamble & it paid off handsomely for him, fair play to the guy.

We can argue all day about this but what I won’t have is that a pro Keeper “wasn’t expecting” the shot!!! They aren’t paid £15k a week to get caught out by not expecting things like that to happen. The ball didnt “break” to the lad, he played an intentional 1-2 with his centre forward, more reason for the keeper to “expect” the shot.

[Spud55]

1 minute ago, Monkeh said:

The point he is trying to make is that Johnson doesn’t want to play him, hence why he was always on the bench

it was only until the fans became more vocal about it that Johnson finally gave him a regular start

But that then surely shows that the man is a bloody moron? No other team would not play the most creative player in the Championship, he should be building the team around him not trying  hard not to play him. 

[Monkeh]

2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

We can argue all day about this but what I won’t have is that a pro Keeper “wasn’t expecting” the shot!!! They aren’t paid £15k a week to get caught out by not expecting things like that to happen. The ball didnt “break” to the lad, he played an intentional 1-2 with his centre forward, more reason for the keeper to “expect” the shot.

Which had 6 city players around him not challenging not tackling 

if you want to place the blame then the players who are responsible are Palmer and brownhill for not doing there ******* job, then Moore and Williams for not doing there

the keeper is blameless 

2 minutes ago, Spud55 said:

But that then surely shows that the man is a bloody moron? No other team would not play the most creative player in the Championship, he should be building the team around him not trying  hard not to play him. 

Yep 100% correct he is inept and needs to go