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reddogkev

Did the players let us down last night?

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LJ has been taking a lot of flak, but I thought that was a very strong City team assembled last night.

All the players earn a decent wage and have agreed to play for City, so why could they not fight harder to win?

I don't blame Lee for the loss, I feel the players let him down and massively let us down.

It is often said on here that this is one of the best squads assembled, so we should expect more from this group of players.

It's simply not fair to heap the blame on LJ, I'm fairly confident he would have anticipated so much more, and must be hurt by last night, just like we all are.

Lee is a genuine nice guy, so perhaps the players haven't turned it on as much as we would hope, as they don't have to fear any harsh consequences.  The feeling might fade, but the City players have sickened me with their lacklustre performances against the Shrews, who had a lot more passion and commitment than us.  If possible, I would dock the most culpable players a week's wages.

 

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I don't think it's ever quite as simple as assigning the blame to one party or the other. The players obviously did not play to their full potential, and have not for quite a few weeks, and it is LJ's job to get them to do so and clearly he isn't managing to do that.

The players have to take some responsibility but ultimately all have signed for the club in the time Lee Johnson has been manager. And, for me, it's less important who is to blame so much as how to resolve it. And what alarms me is that, post-Shrewsbury, Johnson made a big deal about how refreshed the players were ahead of the Wigan game and, whilst we won, the squad LJ's said is refreshed have turned in two lethargic performances. I don't know whether Johnson is to blame but I certainly don't currently see the evidence that he has identified what the problem is and has a plan to fix it. For me, that is the major worry. 

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4 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I don't think it's ever quite as simple as assigning the blame to one party or the other. The players obviously did not play to their full potential, and have not for quite a few weeks, and it is LJ's job to get them to do so and clearly he isn't managing to do that.

The players have to take some responsibility but ultimately all have signed for the club in the time Lee Johnson has been manager. And, for me, it's less important who is to blame so much as how to resolve it. And what alarms me is that, post-Shrewsbury, Johnson made a big deal about how refreshed the players were ahead of the Wigan game and, whilst we won, the squad LJ's said is refreshed have turned in two lethargic performances. I don't know whether Johnson is to blame but I certainly don't currently see the evidence that he has identified what the problem is and has a plan to fix it. For me, that is the major worry. 

I agree, LJ is trying to say/do the right things, but the performances don't back that up.

I don't agree with a lot of the vitriol/hatred you get on here and twitter towards him. Save that for someone who disrespects the club. LJ is trying, no-one can disagree with that, but he may have hit a ceiling right now. He may be able to burst through that, he has the ideas and philosophies, but maybe he doesn't have the decisiveness and knowhow to go along with that. It all depends on how long SL gives him to do so.

Still, I'll be there to enjoy the ride whether its good or bad.

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LJs players have no real fight and have been struggling for weeks but has little to do with LJ thread! 
 

Yep needed another one of those too!

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The fact is against Shrewsbury with such a huge prize on offer. Our players did not play to their full potential and serious questions have to be asked why. Why were Shrewsbury able to play to their full potential but not us? 

We didnt play badly, better finishing and we would have won but listening on the radio it felt as if there was no intensity from our players. It felt like a nervous performance and once 80 minutes had passed it felt inevitable that a Shrewsbury winner was coming. We can say that we had a few good chances but let's not forget so did Shrewsbury. More than us it seemed. They wanted it more than us and that worries me.

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For one game, yes. But for 46?

If in 2017, you are saying: it's the players (Tomlin, particularly), not the coach,

And in 2018, you are saying: it's the players (Flint, Bryan and Reid knew they were off, and so ..... it was them), not those with overall responsibility for those players

And still, in 2020, four years on, you are saying: it's the players, not those above them,

Then, guess what you're going to be saying in 2021? 

And 2022?

And beyond, should we find ourselves falling short.

The players change, but the problem is still the players? Then get some more players is the answer?

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3 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Either the players have no confidence in the tactics or there are no tactics.

Or too many tactics?

For all his efforts to squeeze the 1%’s of improvement, I think LJ hugely overthinks what is a simple game. 

I wouldn’t say we look like a “well-drilled” side, something I’d expect of a team who kept things relatively simple, particularly in dangerous areas.

This is at odds to how we played 2 seasons ago, when with Bobby leading the line it looked like we knew exactly when to press and when to sit back and did so as a team. 

I know personnel have changed but that for me was the perfect system and the reason for our results (Manchester sides in mind). It worked, and needed marginal improvement.

What we have seen is wholesale changes to tactics and personnel  and as a result nobody has any idea what it is we’re trying to do. If LJ does have a plan, he’s not convincing me that he can integrate it, and with the evident lethargy of a very talented squad, it doesn’t seem he can convince them either. 

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It was a cup game, upsets happen. I just hope we can get a decent striker in and sort our season out. It would be nice to see the players turn up on Saturday and give us something to cheer about for a change!

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We created enough chances to win the game.

Problem is, if you've got a forward who can't hit a barn door from a few yards you aren't going to win games. You can only create so many chances.

It's purely down to consistency of quality imo...not the tactics. Too many players have quality on their day, but their day isn't consistent enough.

Yesterday we created the chances and our forward messed em up. Score them and we win easily.

Other days we don't create chances because of the total lack of movement into the correct areas in the final third.

All these problems of consistent inconsistency have a knock on effect and the pressure builds.

Nothing wrong with LJs tactics...the problem is recruiting players that aren't up to getting the job done on a consistent basis.

Too many rough diamonds that need developing.

Our front line needs moving on and replacing imo...all effort and heart but not enough quality where it matters.

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4 minutes ago, deadredfred said:

Or too many tactics?

For all his efforts to squeeze the 1%’s of improvement, I think LJ hugely overthinks what is a simple game. 

I wouldn’t say we look like a “well-drilled” side, something I’d expect of a team who kept things relatively simple, particularly in dangerous areas.

This is at odds to how we played 2 seasons ago, when with Bobby leading the line it looked like we knew exactly when to press and when to sit back and did so as a team. 

I know personnel have changed but that for me was the perfect system and the reason for our results (Manchester sides in mind). It worked, and needed marginal improvement.

What we have seen is wholesale changes to tactics and personnel  and as a result nobody has any idea what it is we’re trying to do. If LJ does have a plan, he’s not convincing me that he can integrate it, and with the evident lethargy of a very talented squad, it doesn’t seem he can convince them either. 

That for me is part of the problem.  How do you evaluate what works and what doesn’t if you don’t give it long enough to evaluate properly?  What you think might be good or bad might’ve been a fluke event, and if you change based on this you’ll never find out, nor will you ever have anything to fall back onto either.

I make no apology for posting my Placebo post from Nov 2018.  It is the one recurring thought I have at times like this.

4A92A488-D9CE-4098-8708-5625205A06E9.thumb.jpeg.2a955b2b8b2dc7a6823b52ee70dc0418.jpeg

The one big positive we have this time we are severely questioning him  is the position we find ourselves in, 9th, just a point (and goal difference) off the play-off places.  If we do continue boom and bust under Lee, then if we can quickly find our next “boom”, it could take us into the top 6.

It is that reason I advocate he’s still “Johnson In”.

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In football there are always unpredictable results, and with this game, both teams had a massive incentive to win. City are out of sorts, lacking confidence and lightweight in midfield, so vulnerable at present.

Onwards and whatever.

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54 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I don't think it's ever quite as simple as assigning the blame to one party or the other. The players obviously did not play to their full potential, and have not for quite a few weeks, and it is LJ's job to get them to do so and clearly he isn't managing to do that.

The players have to take some responsibility but ultimately all have signed for the club in the time Lee Johnson has been manager. And, for me, it's less important who is to blame so much as how to resolve it. And what alarms me is that, post-Shrewsbury, Johnson made a big deal about how refreshed the players were ahead of the Wigan game and, whilst we won, the squad LJ's said is refreshed have turned in two lethargic performances. I don't know whether Johnson is to blame but I certainly don't currently see the evidence that he has identified what the problem is and has a plan to fix it. For me, that is the major worry. 

I quoted few weeks back and got shot for stating they are not playing for him after the Charlton game. It was obvious at the end it was not a happy camp. Now we are a few weeks down the line there is no response. I really do believe the players do not believe in what LJ wants them to achieve tactically. Saturday is a massive show of belief but as already posted unfortunately I think we will come unstuck.

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11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

The one big positive we have this time we are severely questioning him  is the position we find ourselves in, 9th, just a point (and goal difference) off the play-off places.  If we do continue boom and bust under Lee, then if we can quickly find our next “boom”, it could take us into the top 6.

It is that reason I advocate he’s still “Johnson In”.

Good post Dave. I think the kind of manger we would want to come in if we did replace LJ would be better served with a summer transfer window and full preseason anyway. And frankly although alot of people on here will disagree I think he's earned staying to the end of the season, earned the chance to prove he can push on form here and finish in the playoffs. 

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Why do people think LJ over thinks tactics and complicates things?

Something he's said, players said, or something people have dreamt up because he's often quoted as an 'inteligent coach' ?

Or something witnessed on the pitch?

My own personal impression is that we've recruited players that show promise, that could over time be developed into what LJ wants, but right now, they aren't as a whole got the quality to carry it out consistently.

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3 minutes ago, BCFC Richard said:

Good post Dave. I think the kind of manger we would want to come in if we did replace LJ would be better served with a summer transfer window and full preseason anyway. And frankly although alot of people on here will disagree I think he's earned staying to the end of the season, earned the chance to prove he can push on form here and finish in the playoffs. 

Just for clarity, I think he earns the chance to stay in charge as long as play-offs looks a good shout.  If in 5 games we are 7/8 points adrift, I would act.  He doesn’t get to May by default!!

Edited by Davefevs

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The players were poor last night. 
They are all decent players, with occasional excellent games, but no consistency. 
 

Last night Brownhill was captain and was terrible. Gave away the ball easily far too often, vacated spaces in central areas allowing the opposition to probe centrally and create chances against us. 
Nagy was poor. Runs about, closes people down but with no sense of where anyone else is on the pitch and leaves holes. 
Hunt was terrible. Absolutely terrible. 
Baker was once again a let-down with his fitness. 
Moore replaced him and struggled against L1 strikers. Always not tight enough, allowing them space to play. 
Williams was regularly in poor positions, playing a deeper line than the rest and played them onside a number of times. 
Famara has one of his dreadful nights where he looks like an amateur, poor touch, poor finishing, no movement. 
Weimann was totally anonymous. Can’t recall a single moment of quality from him. 
 

There were so many times that a player had the ball and had no movement ahead. Our front and midfield players were static. We had no one with any instinct, everything was slow slow slow. 
 

These things are nothing to do with tactics, shape, LJ’s “over complicated” coaching. 
They are basics that footballers at this level should be able to perform naturally. 
 

Last night they were dreadful at the basics. All of them. 
I highly doubt LJ’s tactics were “go out there and stand still lads”. 
 

So yes, last night was the players fault. 

Edited by Harry
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3 minutes ago, BCFC Richard said:

Good post Dave. I think the kind of manger we would want to come in if we did replace LJ would be better served with a summer transfer window and full preseason anyway. And frankly although alot of people on here will disagree I think he's earned staying to the end of the season, earned the chance to prove he can push on form here and finish in the playoffs. 

It should happen now but certainly won't but soon as last ball is kicked make new plans to bring new energy and direction and clear the dead wood that has been assembled. Its clear JB will probably be off along with a few others so we should have a healthy balance for them to identify what we've need last 4 windows. The longer we wait the more painful it will be. JOHNSON OUT.

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6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Just for clarity, I think he earns the chance to stay in charge as long as play-offs looks a good shout.  If in 5 games we are 7/8 points adrift, I would act.  He doesn’t get to May by default!!

I would agree. I wish he'd go back to the high press we played before, we have the squad depth to cover that now and it was at least way more entertaining. If we really lose pace with the playoffs then given the quality of football this season I think he'd have to go. But I still think we're in with a good shout of being in them personally. 

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28 minutes ago, spudski said:

We created enough chances to win the game.

Problem is, if you've got a forward who can't hit a barn door from a few yards you aren't going to win games. You can only create so many chances.

It's purely down to consistency of quality imo...not the tactics. Too many players have quality on their day, but their day isn't consistent enough.

Yesterday we created the chances and our forward messed em up. Score them and we win easily.

Other days we don't create chances because of the total lack of movement into the correct areas in the final third.

All these problems of consistent inconsistency have a knock on effect and the pressure builds.

Nothing wrong with LJs tactics...the problem is recruiting players that aren't up to getting the job done on a consistent basis.

Too many rough diamonds that need developing.

Our front line needs moving on and replacing imo...all effort and heart but not enough quality where it matters.

Oh, give it a rest for ****'s sake.

You are embarrassing yourself with your constant anti-Fammy (anti-Dave no doubt in your language) views.

Only 4 teams in the Championship have scored more goals than us. Four

The best goalscorers in the world miss lots of chances.  The worst barely miss any.

The tactics by Johnson (I'm assuming they were his tactics as it seems unbelievable that the players would come up with such a strategy) were grim.  We lost yesterday because of Johnson.

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2 minutes ago, spudski said:

Why do people think LJ over thinks tactics and complicates things?

Something he's said, players said, or something people have dreamt up because he's often quoted as an 'inteligent coach' ?

Or something witnessed on the pitch?

My own personal impression is that we've recruited players that show promise, that could over time be developed into what LJ wants, but right now, they aren't as a whole got the quality to carry it out consistently.

I started to write a few reasons, but it comes across as arrogant, so I’m just gonna write “because he does” 

😉😉😉

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6 minutes ago, Harry said:

The players were poor last night. 
They are all decent players, with occasional excellent games, but no consistency. 
 

Last night Brownhill was captain and was terrible. Gave away the ball easily far too often, vacated spaces in central areas allowing the opposition to probe centrally and create chances against us. 
Nagy was poor. Runs about, closes people down but with no sense of where anyone else is on the pitch and leaves holes. 
Hunt was terrible. Absolutely terrible. 
Baker was once again a let-down with his fitness. 
Moore replaced him and struggled against L1 strikers. Always not tight enough, allowing them space to play. 
Williams was regularly in poor positions, playing a deeper line than the rest and played them onside a number of times. 
Famara has one of his dreadful nights where he looks like an amateur, poor touch, poor finishing, no movement. 
Weimann was totally anonymous. Can’t recall a single moment of quality from him. 
 

There were so many times that a player had the ball and had no movement ahead. Our front and midfield players were static. We had no one with any instinct, everything was slow slow slow. 
 

These things are nothing to do with tactics, shape, LJ’s “over complicated” coaching. 
They are basics that footballers at this level should be able to perform naturally. 
 

Last night they were dreadful at the basics. All of them. 
I highly doubt LJ’s tactics were “go out there and stand still lads”. 
 

So yes, last night was the players fault. 

This is exactly how I see it too Harry.

It's been like it for weeks.

Even if not playing at your best, you can still do the basics and simple things right.

Our movement is absolutely awful. It's pedestrian, so slow and easy to read...and that's when it's not static.

As professional footballers, you know how to move, create angles etc. We often stay static or move into a position where you can't receive a pass.

It's the very basics. It's atrocious and the reason we create so few chances.

 

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Yes, the players did let us down last night. The sense of frustration in the crowd was tangible. The players did not appear "up for it". We played the ball sideways and backwards, very little threat and little invention. No player seemed to want to shoot. Pierre tried it from long distance in the first half and missed. He tried again in the 87th minute and scored. There were 1300+ willing the City to "get stuck in", to use an old fashioned phrase, and the crowd reaction when this (rarely)happened was noticeable. Probably a good thing that pitch invasion prevented what could have been a very negative response. I don't usually mind losing, and that happens, but it is the manner of the defeat that concerns me....

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4 minutes ago, Chivs said:

Oh, give it a rest for ****'s sake.

You are embarrassing yourself with your constant anti-Fammy (anti-Dave no doubt in your language) views.

Only 4 teams in the Championship have scored more goals than us. Four

The best goalscorers in the world miss lots of chances.  The worst barely miss any.

The tactics by Johnson (I'm assuming they were his tactics as it seems unbelievable that the players would come up with such a strategy) were grim.  We lost yesterday because of Johnson.

Anti 'Dave'? Behave yourself...got no problem with Dave...I agree with most of his posts...top bloke.

As for Fammy...he is totally inconsistent and lacks correct movement. One game unplayable...5 like a rank amateur.

I'm not anti Fammy...I like him and his effort and heart. But he lacks the consistency and natural intelligence of a forwards movement.

So wind her neck in and read my posts correctly with the intention they are meant.

I'm not anti anyone FFS...idiot 🙄

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1 minute ago, BCFC Richard said:

I would agree. I wish he'd go back to the high press we played before, we have the squad depth to cover that now and it was at least way more entertaining. If we really lose pace with the playoffs then given the quality of football this season I think he'd have to go. But I still think we're in with a good shout of being in them personally. 

We don’t have the players to successfully adopt a high press game. 
That game was based largely around Reid being the catalyst. He had the intelligence to know when and where to press, what angles to take, understanding where the rest of the team were in terms of shape, overloads etc. 
Bobby would instigate. He had lively players around him who would react to the press and understand when and where to push - Smith, Bryan, Brownhill. They generally had bundles of energy and would press all day. 
But ultimately, we had Pack sitting in front of the back line, as a security blanket if the press failed and the opposition managed to play round us. The security of a sitting DM and 2 solid CB’s who wouldn’t get drawn out of shape, stayed tight and didn’t allow spaces down the middle. Coupled with another full back (usually Wright, or Magnússon the other side) who would also stay deeper and not chase high up the pitch. 
 

We don’t have the players now to replicate this. 
We don’t have a Reid, who knows when to spark it off. 
We don’t have full backs or a DM who are prepared to sit in and keep a shape. 

If we try to play a high press with this squad, we will very quickly get passed through and see our CB’s under immediate pressure with very little cover in front or to the side. 
 

It’s not a poor tactic by LJ to not play the press. It’s a lifesaver. He obviously knows the limitations of the players he has. 
 

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The level of defence for LJ on here from some absolutely beggars belief. 
 

Yeh... we’ve been playing shit for 18 months at home because of the players. Nothing to do with the tactics. Poor LJ. 
 

Kalas is shit. He’s Definitely not won a couple of promotions from this league. 
 

Baker/Weimann shit. Definitely never played top flight football. 
 

Eliasson. Shit. LJ’s treatment of him proves that. 
 

Jay Dasilva. Shit. 
 

Williams. Defo not a fairly (Comparatively) decorated international defender. 
 

Massengo/Nagy/Korey Smith. Yep all shit too. Definitely not good enough. 
 

it’s always someone else’s fault. Never Johnson’s. 

 

But we’re always shit at home. Whatever team, pretty much always shit. But it couldn’t possibly be anything to do with Johnson. 
 

I’m seriously starting to wonder if some people take backhanded perks to keep up the LJ in faction. 
 

This country. 
 

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12 minutes ago, Harry said:

The players were poor last night. 
They are all decent players, with occasional excellent games, but no consistency. 
 

Last night Brownhill was captain and was terrible. Gave away the ball easily far too often, vacated spaces in central areas allowing the opposition to probe centrally and create chances against us. 
Nagy was poor. Runs about, closes people down but with no sense of where anyone else is on the pitch and leaves holes. 
Hunt was terrible. Absolutely terrible. 
Baker was once again a let-down with his fitness. 
Moore replaced him and struggled against L1 strikers. Always not tight enough, allowing them space to play. 
Williams was regularly in poor positions, playing a deeper line than the rest and played them onside a number of times. 
Famara has one of his dreadful nights where he looks like an amateur, poor touch, poor finishing, no movement. 
Weimann was totally anonymous. Can’t recall a single moment of quality from him. 
 

There were so many times that a player had the ball and had no movement ahead. Our front and midfield players were static. We had no one with any instinct, everything was slow slow slow. 
 

These things are nothing to do with tactics, shape, LJ’s “over complicated” coaching. 
They are basics that footballers at this level should be able to perform naturally. 
 

Last night they were dreadful at the basics. All of them. 
I highly doubt LJ’s tactics were “go out there and stand still lads”. 
 

So yes, last night was the players fault. 

At what point in last nights game does the person in charge of the team out there (LJ) intervene, show leadership and do something about it?

I don’t have a problem with players taking some blame for last night (we don’t need to agree how much), but for you to say it is all their fault is imho you admitting that our head-coach has no influence on proceedings.  If our own Head-Coach takes the same view of last night as you have, and lays it squarely at the feet of the players, then he will as they say “lose the dressing room” (a phrase I dislike).

I’m actually pretty shocked that you’ve passed the buck so easily and so fully.

Hey-ho...opinions.

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1 hour ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Either the players have no confidence in the tactics or there are no tactics.

The tactics are side pass,side pass,side pass,back.

There were may times last night when the ball could and should have been bought out off defence and into space but the players looked afraid to do so and once again went sideways or back.

Williams in particular.

 

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3 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

The level of defence for LJ on here from some absolutely beggars belief. 
 

Yeh... we’ve been playing shit for 18 months at home because of the players. Nothing to do with the tactics. Poor LJ. 
 

Kalas is shit. He’s Definitely not won a couple of promotions from this league. 
 

Baker/Weimann shit. Definitely never played top flight football. 
 

Eliasson. Shit. LJ’s treatment of him proves that. 
 

Jay Dasilva. Shit. 
 

Williams. Defo not a fairly (Comparatively) decorated international defender. 
 

Massengo/Nagy/Korey Smith. Yep all shit too. Definitely not good enough. 
 

it’s always someone else’s fault. Never Johnson’s. 

 

But we’re always shit at home. Whatever team, pretty much always shit. But it couldn’t possibly be anything to do with Johnson. 
 

I’m seriously starting to wonder if some people take backhanded perks to keep up the LJ in faction. 
 

This country. 
 

Beat me to it.

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1 hour ago, reddogkev said:

LJ has been taking a lot of flak, but I thought that was a very strong City team assembled last night.

All the players earn a decent wage and have agreed to play for City, so why could they not fight harder to win?

I don't blame Lee for the loss, I feel the players let him down and massively let us down.

It is often said on here that this is one of the best squads assembled, so we should expect more from this group of players.

It's simply not fair to heap the blame on LJ, I'm fairly confident he would have anticipated so much more, and must be hurt by last night, just like we all are.

Lee is a genuine nice guy, so perhaps the players haven't turned it on as much as we would hope, as they don't have to fear any harsh consequences.  The feeling might fade, but the City players have sickened me with their lacklustre performances against the Shrews, who had a lot more passion and commitment than us.  If possible, I would dock the most culpable players a week's wages.

 

Yes players let us down because they lost the game and were  not good enough. But these attempts to teflon coat Johnson astound me. If you are managing in any profession you carry the can. That is what you are paid for. If you do not like taking the responsibility then don't take the job or the money. In football terms if Johnson was managing a team that he had inherited then fair play I would accept he has reduced responsibility. But when he had signed the players spent 4 years getting them to play with the Johnson identity then it is totally down to him. For example he had continued to play Diedhiou in spite of him regularly missing goals he should convert so when he does it against Shrewsbury then responsibility lays with Johnson because he should not be in the team. He has created a team that have not got the character to deal with pressure games.  We fall away at the end of the season when in good positions to reach the playoffs because of this. When a great time against Liverpool is the reward the team haven't got the bottle or determination to see it out. If we have the most talented group of players for some time then why are they performing like this. Johnson should know why. The fact he  continually  has no answers  to this says it all 

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Serious question...what tactics did LJ employ last night that were so ineffective? Were they so different to any other occasion where we have played well and won?

Or did we play pretty much the same way, and didn't put away the chances and sitters we created?

Is that poor tactics or lack of quality by the players?

Why do they play well one week and win, but play the same tactics the next week, play poorly and lose?

Tactics...players consistency and quality?

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18 minutes ago, spudski said:

Anti 'Dave'? Behave yourself...got no problem with Dave...I agree with most of his posts...top bloke.

As for Fammy...he is totally inconsistent and lacks correct movement. One game unplayable...5 like a rank amateur.

I'm not anti Fammy...I like him and his effort and heart. But he lacks the consistency and natural intelligence of a forwards movement.

So wind her neck in and read my posts correctly with the intention they are meant.

I'm not anti anyone FFS...idiot 🙄

Exactly where i am with him 

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2 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Most of the things your listing are posted by people who want LJ out not people defending him. 

 

The level of defence for LJ on here from some absolutely beggars belief. The level of criticism beggars belief! Year on year improvement and still up there at the moment, and your acting like we in a relegation fight! We're just outside the playoffs! Get a grip! 
 

Yeh... we’ve been playing shit for 18 months at home because of the players. Nothing to do with the tactics. Poor LJ. 18 months including our highet finish in 10 years and pushing to go better this season.
 

Kalas is shit. He’s Definitely not won a couple of promotions from this league.  
 

Baker/Weimann shit. Definitely never played top flight football. 
 

Eliasson. Shit. LJ’s treatment of him proves that. 
 

Jay Dasilva. Shit. 
 

Williams. Defo not a fairly (Comparatively) decorated international defender. 
 

Massengo/Nagy/Korey Smith. Yep all shit too. Definitely not good enough.  I don't understand what you are getting at here - These are the things people are saying are LJ's fault people saying he's made the team worse. People defending him are saying that it's going to come good. 
 

it’s always someone else’s fault. Never Johnson’s. 

 

But we’re always shit at home. Whatever team, pretty much always shit. But it couldn’t possibly be anything to do with Johnson. 
 

I’m seriously starting to wonder if some people take backhanded perks to keep up the LJ in faction. 
 

This country. 

Again we're just outside the playoffs! In the season after our best season in years - get a grip!!
 

 

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2 minutes ago, spudski said:

Serious question...what tactics did LJ employ last night that were so ineffective? Were they so different to any other occasion where we have played well and won?

Or did we play pretty much the same way, and didn't put away the chances and sitters we created?

Is that poor tactics or lack of quality by the players?

Why do they play well one week and win, but play the same tactics the next week, play poorly and lose?

Tactics...players consistency and quality?

Same tactics same out come.... players aren't performance as they should because half simply aren't good enough and the others don't believe in LJ. One thing that gets me is we are so defensive but yet we're so open and still back off. It was a great strike last night but again why did he have so much room and it's not the 1st time this season we've seen this. He wants to play from the back but we simply don't have the quality players to do so and get closed down. Midfield is weak with not 1 leader / ball player or winner as JB plays so deep and up front we have AW who runs his heart out but no goal scorer same problems we've had for 4 transfer windows. And we are truly awful from throw ins no movement especially this season. We are simply not good enough in key area's.

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25 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

The level of defence for LJ on here from some absolutely beggars belief. 
 

Yeh... we’ve been playing shit for 18 months at home because of the players. Nothing to do with the tactics. Poor LJ. 
 

Kalas is shit. He’s Definitely not won a couple of promotions from this league. 
 

Baker/Weimann shit. Definitely never played top flight football. 
 

Eliasson. Shit. LJ’s treatment of him proves that. 
 

Jay Dasilva. Shit. 
 

Williams. Defo not a fairly (Comparatively) decorated international defender. 
 

Massengo/Nagy/Korey Smith. Yep all shit too. Definitely not good enough. 
 

it’s always someone else’s fault. Never Johnson’s. 

 

But we’re always shit at home. Whatever team, pretty much always shit. But it couldn’t possibly be anything to do with Johnson. 
 

I’m seriously starting to wonder if some people take backhanded perks to keep up the LJ in faction. 
 

This country. 
 

Good players can play badly. The question raised was whether the players let us down last night.  Why should the answer never be yes?

Managers are ultimately accountable for results but an awful lot of fans want to absolve players of any responsibility for their performances - apart from whoever the latest scapegoat happens to be.

I don't suppose any manager instructs players to keep giving the ball away for instance. So who is responsible if players do that?

If footballers are allowed can we all deny personal responsibility for how we do our jobs and blame it on our boss?

This country indeed.

Having said that, LJ said that nobody could say any of the players had a poor game so his answer is no. Of course if he had said otherwise he would have got stick for that as well.

 

 

Edited by chinapig

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3 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Good players can play badly. The question raised was whether the players let us down last night.  Why should the answer never be yes?

Managers are ultimately accountable for results but an awful lot of fans want to absolve players of any responsibility for their performances - apart from whoever the latest scapegoat happens to be.

I don't suppose any manager instructs players to keep giving the ball away for instance. So who is responsible if players do that?

If footballers are allowed can we all deny personal responsibility for how we do our jobs and blame it on our boss?

This country indeed.

 

 

Players do get it easy it’s true. Nothing easier in life than picking up your £60K for the month and shrugging your shoulders when the Boss is the one who will lose his job.....

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2 hours ago, reddogkev said:

LJ has been taking a lot of flak, but I thought that was a very strong City team assembled last night.

All the players earn a decent wage and have agreed to play for City, so why could they not fight harder to win?

I don't blame Lee for the loss, I feel the players let him down and massively let us down.

It is often said on here that this is one of the best squads assembled, so we should expect more from this group of players.

It's simply not fair to heap the blame on LJ, I'm fairly confident he would have anticipated so much more, and must be hurt by last night, just like we all are.

Lee is a genuine nice guy, so perhaps the players haven't turned it on as much as we would hope, as they don't have to fear any harsh consequences.  The feeling might fade, but the City players have sickened me with their lacklustre performances against the Shrews, who had a lot more passion and commitment than us.  If possible, I would dock the most culpable players a week's wages.

 

Players are confused by the tactics and way they are being asked to play

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They did let us down. But until we can sack players or dock wages, managers take full responsibility. They know that too. 

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3 minutes ago, Allwaysred said:

Same tactics same out come.... players aren't performance as they should because half simply aren't good enough and the others don't believe in LJ. One thing that gets me is we are so defensive but yet we're so open and still back off. It was a great strike last night but again why did he have so much room and it's not the 1st time this season we've seen this. He wants to play from the back but we simply don't have the quality players to do so and get closed down. Midfield is weak with not 1 leader / ball player or winner as JB plays so deep and up front we have AW who runs his heart out but no goal scorer same problems we've had for 4 transfer windows. And we are truly awful from throw ins no movement especially this season. We are simply not good enough in key area's.

Im not sure it's a case of not believing in LJ. Players talk...they wouldn't come here if it was bad.

I do however agree that our quality to consistently do well, isn't there.

Like I've said...these players have quality, but have varying degrees of consistency.

Put them all together, and getting a consistent winning outcome isn't going to happen.

This is why they aren't Prem players...the level of inconsistency or experience with some is that of a mid Championship side.

The overriding feeling I get from this forum, is fans loved watching the high press game of two seasons ago.

We've become more defensive and more dour to watch.

I think fans would put up with that if we were standard top 6...but we aren't. We are dour and mid table like.

So that is going against LJ.

His tactics aren't anything drastically different to what any other Club is doing in this division.

His recruitment and it's restrictions don't help imo.

Any other Coach would still have inconsistent players on his hands and the Club's recruitment policy to work with.

I think any new coach would have to tear it all up and start again.

 

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

We created enough chances to win the game.

Problem is, if you've got a forward who can't hit a barn door from a few yards you aren't going to win games. You can only create so many chances.

It's purely down to consistency of quality imo...not the tactics. Too many players have quality on their day, but their day isn't consistent enough.

Yesterday we created the chances and our forward messed em up. Score them and we win easily.

Other days we don't create chances because of the total lack of movement into the correct areas in the final third.

All these problems of consistent inconsistency have a knock on effect and the pressure builds.

Nothing wrong with LJs tactics...the problem is recruiting players that aren't up to getting the job done on a consistent basis.

Too many rough diamonds that need developing.

Our front line needs moving on and replacing imo...all effort and heart but not enough quality where it matters.

Shrewsbury won a game with a forward who couldn’t hit a barn door, just saying. 

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23 minutes ago, BCFC Richard said:

 

Just out of interest do you enjoy the home games over the last two seasons (which have seen our highest position)?

For me, I couldn't care less about the table, I want to be entertained (even if we do lose 1-0 at Shrewsbury) and finish 15th.

The Prem would be crap anyway unless you really want to see the top teams beat us most weeks and worry about having to beat Burnlyy or Bournemouth to stay up..

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1 minute ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

Just out of interest do you enjoy the home games over the last two seasons (which have seen our highest position)?

For me, I couldn't care less about the table, I want to be entertained (even if we do lose 1-0 at Shrewsbury) and finish 15th.

The Prem would be crap anyway unless you really want to see the top teams beat us most weeks and worry about having to beat Burnlyy or Bournemouth to stay up..

Agree. If the league position is the absolute be all and end all of everything at the expense of everything else I’ll save the £560 on the season ticket and buy a Sunday Paper every week........

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2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

If you do want to look at a player it would be interesting to get Dan Bentleys perspective of the goal. Weak as piss goalkeeping I thought.

Bentley kept us in the game, it was nothing to do with him the goal, it was mainly brownhill who was ******* about

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2 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Bentley kept us in the game, it was nothing to do with him the goal, it was mainly brownhill who was ******* about

He may have kept us in the game but that shot wasn’t hit hard enough to beat a pro keeper from that distance imo.....

Looking at the reactions of one or two players I’m not alone in thinking that either.

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5 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Shrewsbury won a game with a forward who couldn’t hit a barn door, just saying. 

But they took the chance they created...we simply didn't.

If we didn't create any chances I'd get it...but we did...so how can the tactics be wrong?

We simply didn't finish the easy chances. That isn't tactics fault...that's quality of finishing.

Which comes down to inconsistency, because they can do it on other days.

LJ isn't doing some mumbo jumbo type tactics that are to clever for the players to understand.

You can see when you watch what they are trying to do.

The problem is doing it well on a regular basis. The players don't.

If there is a blame...it's the level of recruitment and quality that's needed to perform more consistently.

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22 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Players are confused by the tactics and way they are being asked to play

Over-simplistic for some, but I totally agree with you. This, and the fact that he cannot seem to select a settled side for more than about 5 minutes.

The buck stops here and not with the players.

Edited by AppyDAZE

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10 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Agree. If the league position is the absolute be all and end all of everything at the expense of everything else I’ll save the £560 on the season ticket and buy a Sunday Paper every week........

This. 

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