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Silvio Dante

“Good Relationships With The Big Clubs”

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Just thinking on this factor this morning. Something that MA and LJ have stressed in interviews is that we have strong relationships with the bigger clubs in the country. My wonder is (a) How true this is and (b) How much it actually matters

If you take the current biggest/best team in the country, by all accounts the Ryan Kent saga harmed that and we’d probably be reticent to loan from them with the non playing penalties, as they may also be reticent to loan to us

With EN, I understand that the decisions changed, but the way the club appear to have been on strings for the last six months would make me wary of dealing with them again

Man U/Man C/Spurs - We’ve done no business in recent years. Even after LJs link up with Man C/Marwood in his earlier management years, and the good impression on the League cup ties, we haven’t secured (if we’ve asked) loan prospects

So, the only Big club where we appear to have a good relationship is Chelsea. Even there, are we really currently at the front of the queue for their best and brightest? And if you take the signings, undoubtedly we got a good deal with JD but we paid market value for TK and the jury’s out on KP

So, do we have these fabled “Good Relationships”?

Edited by Silvio Dante
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2 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Just thinking on this factor this morning. Something that MA and LJ have nothing stressed in interviews is that we have strong relationships with the bigger clubs in the country. My wonder is (a) How true this is and (b) How much it actually matters

If you take the current biggest/best team in the country, by all accounts the Ryan Kent saga harmed that and we’d probably be reticent to loan from them with the non playing penalties, as they may also be reticent to loan to us

With EN, I understand that the decisions changed, but the way the club appear to have been on strings for the last six months would make me wary of dealing with them again

Man U/Man C/Spurs - We’ve done no business in recent years. Even after LJs link up with Man C/Marwood in his earlier management years, and the good impression on the League cup ties, we haven’t secured (if we’ve asked) loan prospects

So, the only Big club where we appear to have a good relationship is Chelsea. Even there, are we really currently at the front of the queue for their best and brightest? And if you take the signings, undoubtedly we got a good deal with JD but we paid market value for TK and the jury’s out on KP

So, do we have these fabled “Good Relationships”?

On that basis, no. More spin, I fear.

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I remember after the Man City games there was speculation that we'd impressed, and I think we were linked with Nmecha around that time. No evidence since then though.

Other than Chelsea, I don't see any Premier League ties.

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The relationship fell apart with Man City when they loaned us Ryan McGivern.

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I'm sure you would have a good relationship with Chelsea when you're willing to pay their C team players 20k a week and then buy them for 8 million. 

But as people have previously stated, I only seem to see a relationship with Chelse

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LJ has said we'd only be in for players on loan from those clubs who'd really add something to the team rather than just take anyone from them, so if man city/man Utd aren't willing to loan anyone of that standard we won't take players. 

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I suppose the point I should also make here is that good relationships can also bear fruit by things like using other teams training facilities, leveraging off their scouting network etc - ie the unseen stuff. 

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2 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I suppose the point I should also make here is that good relationships can also bear fruit by things like using other teams training facilities, leveraging off their scouting network etc - ie the unseen stuff. 

Absolutely right. 

There are other benefits other than loaning players.
 

 

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We are a progressive club despite our recent disappointments.

Every club is out for themselves and if they think their players would benefit from a loan to ‘ best friends ‘ City  or Timbuktu United they will send the player to the club which they feel is the better option .

( currently Timbuktu United would be marginally in front of us as first choice) 

:badmood:

Edited by Major Isewater
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38 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Just thinking on this factor this morning. Something that MA and LJ have stressed in interviews is that we have strong relationships with the bigger clubs in the country. My wonder is (a) How true this is and (b) How much it actually matters

If you take the current biggest/best team in the country, by all accounts the Ryan Kent saga harmed that and we’d probably be reticent to loan from them with the non playing penalties, as they may also be reticent to loan to us

With EN, I understand that the decisions changed, but the way the club appear to have been on strings for the last six months would make me wary of dealing with them again

Man U/Man C/Spurs - We’ve done no business in recent years. Even after LJs link up with Man C/Marwood in his earlier management years, and the good impression on the League cup ties, we haven’t secured (if we’ve asked) loan prospects

So, the only Big club where we appear to have a good relationship is Chelsea. Even there, are we really currently at the front of the queue for their best and brightest? And if you take the signings, undoubtedly we got a good deal with JD but we paid market value for TK and the jury’s out on KP

So, do we have these fabled “Good Relationships”?

I think its utter bullshit personally but happy to be proven wrong.

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39 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Just thinking on this factor this morning. Something that MA and LJ have stressed in interviews is that we have strong relationships with the bigger clubs in the country. My wonder is (a) How true this is and (b) How much it actually matters

If you take the current biggest/best team in the country, by all accounts the Ryan Kent saga harmed that and we’d probably be reticent to loan from them with the non playing penalties, as they may also be reticent to loan to us

With EN, I understand that the decisions changed, but the way the club appear to have been on strings for the last six months would make me wary of dealing with them again

Man U/Man C/Spurs - We’ve done no business in recent years. Even after LJs link up with Man C/Marwood in his earlier management years, and the good impression on the League cup ties, we haven’t secured (if we’ve asked) loan prospects

So, the only Big club where we appear to have a good relationship is Chelsea. Even there, are we really currently at the front of the queue for their best and brightest? And if you take the signings, undoubtedly we got a good deal with JD but we paid market value for TK and the jury’s out on KP

So, do we have these fabled “Good Relationships”?

I don't think anyone on here will know truthfully.

It also depends what they mean by 'good relationship' - it could mean first priority for loan players.. or it could mean sharing of training technology/ideas. It's purposely kept pretty vague.

The other thing to factor in is that just because a loan player from Chelsea for example becomes available, it doesn't necessarily mean we'll definitely want him.

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1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

Just thinking on this factor this morning. Something that MA and LJ have stressed in interviews is that we have strong relationships with the bigger clubs in the country. My wonder is (a) How true this is and (b) 

I would also ask who are these clubs are how are we benefiting from this good relationship?

Is it just as simple as we use training facilities when we are away?

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1 minute ago, phantom said:

I would also ask who are these clubs are how are we benefiting from this good relationship?

Is it just as simple as we use training facilities when we are away?

And if so, what other clubs enjoy similar benefits eg: is it nothing special just the football fraternity helping out others ?

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I think we state ‘good’ relationship as the alternatives are ‘bad relationship’ or ‘no relationship’. I expect our staff have met with a few clubs over the years so we can state we have ‘a relationship’, and maybe the Ryan Kent issue aside we don’t have a ‘bad relationship’ with anybody,  so can state we have a ‘good relationship’.

  I think it is just spin and bluff

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15 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Just thinking on this factor this morning. Something that MA and LJ have stressed in interviews is that we have strong relationships with the bigger clubs in the country. My wonder is (a) How true this is and (b) How much it actually matters

If you take the current biggest/best team in the country, by all accounts the Ryan Kent saga harmed that and we’d probably be reticent to loan from them with the non playing penalties, as they may also be reticent to loan to us

With EN, I understand that the decisions changed, but the way the club appear to have been on strings for the last six months would make me wary of dealing with them again

Man U/Man C/Spurs - We’ve done no business in recent years. Even after LJs link up with Man C/Marwood in his earlier management years, and the good impression on the League cup ties, we haven’t secured (if we’ve asked) loan prospects

So, the only Big club where we appear to have a good relationship is Chelsea. Even there, are we really currently at the front of the queue for their best and brightest? And if you take the signings, undoubtedly we got a good deal with JD but we paid market value for TK and the jury’s out on KP

So, do we have these fabled “Good Relationships”?

Our last interaction with Tottenham would have been the loans for Rose and Caulker, wouldn’t it?

I know their spells at Ashton Gate were a good few years ago, but I wonder whether Caulker’s interview with the Guardian a couple of years ago, and the issues he mentions (which Tottenham would presumably have been aware of well before the interview was published) have affected our relationship with them. 

Tottenham sent me to Bristol City on loan at 18 and they put me in a flat in the city centre surrounded by nightclubs, two casinos opposite, the kind of money I’d never seen in my life, and no guidance whatsoever. I was pulled once by a member of staff and told I’d been spotted in the casino at 3am but their attitude was: ‘What you do in your spare time is your business. Just don’t let it affect your performances out on the pitch.‘“

Rose has clearly gone on to better things since his loan spell with us. Ten years ago I’d never have guessed he’d go on to play in a champions league final and a world cup semi final. This might be an unfair comment but during his loan spell he seemed to give the impression of playing for us because he’d been told to and not because he wanted to - I might be entirely wrong but I sense both players were glad to get back to Tottenham after their spells with us. 

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11 minutes ago, North London Red said:

Our last interaction with Tottenham would have been the loans for Rose and Caulker, wouldn’t it?

I know their spells at Ashton Gate were a good few years ago, but I wonder whether Caulker’s interview with the Guardian a couple of years ago, and the issues he mentions (which Tottenham would presumably have been aware of well before the interview was published) have affected our relationship with them. 

Tottenham sent me to Bristol City on loan at 18 and they put me in a flat in the city centre surrounded by nightclubs, two casinos opposite, the kind of money I’d never seen in my life, and no guidance whatsoever. I was pulled once by a member of staff and told I’d been spotted in the casino at 3am but their attitude was: ‘What you do in your spare time is your business. Just don’t let it affect your performances out on the pitch.‘“
 

Rose has clearly gone on to better things since his loan spell with us. Ten years ago I’d never have guessed he’d go on to play in a champions league final and a world cup semi final. This might be an unfair comment but during his loan spell he seemed to give the impression of playing for us because he’d been told to and not because he wanted to - I might be entirely wrong but I sense both players were glad to get back to Tottenham after their spells with us. 

Easily correctable though as its under old management so Johnson and Co would be able to present how they'd look after the players in that regard 

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22 hours ago, Eastside Moonwalker said:

I'm sure you would have a good relationship with Chelsea when you're willing to pay their C team players 20k a week and then buy them for 8 million. 

But as people have previously stated, I only seem to see a relationship with Chelse

I think that’s the past tense now. 

Swansea is now the preferred destination for Chelsea youngsters according to yesterday’s media reports. 

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Good relationshipscover a range of mutual benefits and I presume relate primarily to the past 5yrs or so. My suggestions would be trading relationships with 1)Villa 2)Chelsea and MA /SL will know well the  Chairman of several clubs like thise who tried to call out Brum, Derby etc over ffp. 

Some clubs will want to buy our players, like Baardiff because they know they will have been well coached and developed:one reason we have one of the most respected coaching set ups in the country. Well done MA/LJ

 

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11 minutes ago, Hampshire Red said:

 

Some clubs will want to buy our players, like Baardiff because they know they will have been well coached and developed:one reason we have one of the most respected coaching set ups in the country. Well done MA/LJ

 

Tomlin! Well developed, coached and full of respect for the head coach ?!?!

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8 hours ago, North London Red said:

Our last interaction with Tottenham would have been the loans for Rose and Caulker, wouldn’t it?

I know their spells at Ashton Gate were a good few years ago, but I wonder whether Caulker’s interview with the Guardian a couple of years ago, and the issues he mentions (which Tottenham would presumably have been aware of well before the interview was published) have affected our relationship with them. 

Tottenham sent me to Bristol City on loan at 18 and they put me in a flat in the city centre surrounded by nightclubs, two casinos opposite, the kind of money I’d never seen in my life, and no guidance whatsoever. I was pulled once by a member of staff and told I’d been spotted in the casino at 3am but their attitude was: ‘What you do in your spare time is your business. Just don’t let it affect your performances out on the pitch.‘“

Rose has clearly gone on to better things since his loan spell with us. Ten years ago I’d never have guessed he’d go on to play in a champions league final and a world cup semi final. This might be an unfair comment but during his loan spell he seemed to give the impression of playing for us because he’d been told to and not because he wanted to - I might be entirely wrong but I sense both players were glad to get back to Tottenham after their spells with us. 

Caulker was an absolute monster for us, he went on to play for England and had loan spells in the Premier League. An absolute non story, I'm sure he was hardly speaking to his parent club about going to the Casino at 3am when he was trying to make it in the game.

At the end of the day, the loan club is not responsible for the player's professionalism. The parent club wants to see that the player has what it takes to make it, obviously they want them to go to a decent coaching setup, but ultimately it is the player who has to show he can step up. 

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Chelsea just moved Connor Gallagher from Charlton to Swansea, and sent Marc Guehi there too, because they rate Steve Cooper so highly for his work with England U17s.

We had a good run with Tammy, who let's remember was totally untested at the time, but what other evidence do we have under LJ that big clubs are so keen to send us their best young talent?

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34 minutes ago, RonWalker said:

Chelsea just moved Connor Gallagher from Charlton to Swansea, and sent Marc Guehi there too, because they rate Steve Cooper so highly for his work with England U17s.

We had a good run with Tammy, who let's remember was totally untested at the time, but what other evidence do we have under LJ that big clubs are so keen to send us their best young talent?

Ryan Kent?

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24 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Ryan Kent?

Yeah he's probably the only other one. Don't remember us fighting off competition from all sides for him, but might be wrong.

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On 16/01/2020 at 09:09, Silvio Dante said:

Just thinking on this factor this morning. Something that MA and LJ have stressed in interviews is that we have strong relationships with the bigger clubs in the country. My wonder is (a) How true this is and (b) How much it actually matters

If you take the current biggest/best team in the country, by all accounts the Ryan Kent saga harmed that and we’d probably be reticent to loan from them with the non playing penalties, as they may also be reticent to loan to us

With EN, I understand that the decisions changed, but the way the club appear to have been on strings for the last six months would make me wary of dealing with them again

Man U/Man C/Spurs - We’ve done no business in recent years. Even after LJs link up with Man C/Marwood in his earlier management years, and the good impression on the League cup ties, we haven’t secured (if we’ve asked) loan prospects

So, the only Big club where we appear to have a good relationship is Chelsea. Even there, are we really currently at the front of the queue for their best and brightest? And if you take the signings, undoubtedly we got a good deal with JD but we paid market value for TK and the jury’s out on KP

So, do we have these fabled “Good Relationships”?

Didn’t we get Ryan McGivern from Man City?! That probably soured that “relationship” 😄🍷

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36 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

You didn’t get to start your Oasis chant much for old Sammie! 

Next season? 👀

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23 hours ago, Davefevs said:

We have a good relationship with Peterborough. 👀

I was just about to say! I think @Silvio Dante has got his quotes mixed up.

We've got a "Good Relationship With Small Clubs".

We keep buying players for them all.

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On 16/01/2020 at 14:39, RedM said:

I think we state ‘good’ relationship as the alternatives are ‘bad relationship’ or ‘no relationship’. I expect our staff have met with a few clubs over the years so we can state we have ‘a relationship’, and maybe the Ryan Kent issue aside we don’t have a ‘bad relationship’ with anybody,  so can state we have a ‘good relationship’.

  I think it is just spin and bluff

Yep, I think we're like that annoying little kid in the playground that keeps hanging around with the big boys and just won't go away.

 

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Going back over 10 years or so ago, i remember GJ saying we had a link with Arsenal, despite never playing them in a friendly, selling them a player or even loaning a player from them....

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32 minutes ago, Mr Hankey said:

Going back over 10 years or so ago, i remember GJ saying we had a link with Arsenal, despite never playing them in a friendly, selling them a player or even loaning a player from them....

He was talking about the M4 .

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Perhaps we'd be better off forging a relationship with a Belgian or Dutch team. They develop talented players and we could send players out on loan to a relatively nearby country with a pleasant environment (shmoke and a pancake).

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1 hour ago, mozo said:

Perhaps we'd be better off forging a relationship with a Belgian or Dutch team. They develop talented players and we could send players out on loan to a relatively nearby country with a pleasant environment (shmoke and a pancake).

SCO Angers 😉

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On 17/01/2020 at 15:56, BS4 on Tour... said:

Didn’t we get Ryan McGivern from Man City?! That probably soured that “relationship” 😄🍷

Ryan McGivern had a fair go, Wikipedia saying he played 31 games for us. Don’t think Man City would portion any blame on him being shite on us.

also it was 8 years ago.

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24 minutes ago, joeyb said:

Ryan McGivern had a fair go, Wikipedia saying he played 31 games for us. Don’t think Man City would portion any blame on him being shite on us.

also it was 8 years ago.

Yeh, I wasn’t being entirely serious ... 🍷

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