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Abraham Romanovich

Barnsley Fans View on LJ and our Club

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4 minutes ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

Worth a read , interesting to see how we are viewed from afar and their thoughts on LJ who was their manager.

http://barnsleyfc.org.uk/threads/bristol-city-lee-johnson.287379/

Interesting how they thought we haven’t been in top flight since before the war (we have albeit 40 years ago), that we all thought we would beat the Shrews (after the form the last two months I don’t think anyone thought it was a given), and that they will beat us Saturday and get Johnson sacked (we shall see!)

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Same rubbish about us overachieving. Based on our history of failure maybe, based on fanbase, resources and potential absolutely not.

Edited by cidercity1987
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7 minutes ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

Worth a read , interesting to see how we are viewed from afar and their thoughts on LJ who was their manager.

http://barnsleyfc.org.uk/threads/bristol-city-lee-johnson.287379/

Interestingly, the general consensus is that he is doing a reasonable job and our expectations are too high. That’s probably how the football world sees it overall. Just what we think of other teams’ over critical fans, in fact.

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They’re one point off the play offs in one of the toughest leagues in the world.

what do they expect, exactly?

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Alot of their fans hate his guts and have very long memories, I mean, Sunderland fans have never forgiven Coventry from all those years ago.. 

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2 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Interestingly, the general consensus is that he is doing a reasonable job and our expectations are too high. That’s probably how the football world sees it overall. Just what we think of other teams’ over critical fans, in fact.

I dont think people who want him gone care about the table.

The issue is that if you took a nuetral to most games, especially the ones at home, and asked them who played better - in very few of them would the nuetral point to us. 

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Some very sensible comments there particularly ‘they’re 1 point off the play offs, what do they expect?’

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3 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Interestingly, the general consensus is that he is doing a reasonable job and our expectations are too high. That’s probably how the football world sees it overall. Just what we think of other teams’ over critical fans, in fact.

I was about to post something similar.

But I do also believe our fanbases expectations are too high based on the size of our club. I think being around the Championship playoffs is about right for us. Sacking the manager at this stage of the season when we are in that position would be a ridiculous move.

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14 minutes ago, Famara's Party Hat said:

I was about to post something similar.

But I do also believe our fanbases expectations are too high based on the size of our club. I think being around the Championship playoffs is about right for us. Sacking the manager at this stage of the season when we are in that position would be a ridiculous move.

any fan base who's spent upward to 25 million in the transfer window has a right to expect a high position in the league

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Although the general message may be considered true, this guy needs to get his facts right....

"It does seem a bit strange doesnt it - Some of their fans must think they are Wednesday or Leeds fans you know sides with a history in the top division so might have a reasonable expectation of getting there again
Bristol City had a short spell in the old First Division before WW1 but since then have mostly been in the lower leagues with occasional forays into the second tier."

I don't recall being at war during the late seventies and I believe our all-time league position was lower second tier. 

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Interesting the inevitable focus on how much we’ve spent, without noting that we’ve raked in about £80m gross in 2 years by selling most of our best players, a process that appears ongoing, viz Brownhill.

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26 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

Interesting how they thought we haven’t been in top flight since before the war (we have albeit 40 years ago), that we all thought we would beat the Shrews (after the form the last two months I don’t think anyone thought it was a given), and that they will beat us Saturday and get Johnson sacked (we shall see!)

Well, they were in the fourth division then so probably didn't strain their necks that far up !

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There will often be sackings in football where fans of other clubs will wonder what the hell the club is doing. Whether you think Lee should go or not, if we did sack him the media and fans of other clubs will be amazed!  
 

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1 minute ago, Bedred31 said:

Interesting the inevitable focus on how much we’ve spent, without noting that we’ve raked in about £80m gross in 2 years by selling most of our best players, a process that appears ongoing, viz Brownhill.

its 60 million over 3 years all of which has been spent by our head coach

We sold Bryan replaced him with DaSilva

We sold flint replaced him with webster

We sold Webster replaced him with Kalas

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25 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

 

any fan base who's spent upward to 25 million in the transfer window has a right to expect a high position in the league

They might if 25million was a lot of money and more than anyone else spends but it isn’t and it’s not

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2 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

They might if 25million was a lot of money and more than anyone else spends but it isn’t and it’s not

in the championship its a massive amount still

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I enjoyed this: Replace Barnsley with Bristol City or any other team....seems all fans all think the same thing!

 

Problem usually with this scenario is that Barnsley usually turn up and let the other team off.

Been a 28 game losing streak. Play Barnsley. 3 points.

Striker that’s not scored for 25 games. Play Barnsley hat trick.
 

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21 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

its 60 million over 3 years all of which has been spent by our head coach

We sold Bryan replaced him with DaSilva

We sold flint replaced him with webster

We sold Webster replaced him with Kalas

We did not replace Webster with Kalas.

We're yet to replace Webster. Taylor Moore has stepped up, but he's not the player Webster was. Webster was the catalyst for almost all of our attacks last season and it'll be impossible to replace that, but Kalas certainly did not replace Webster

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6 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

They might if 25million was a lot of money and more than anyone else spends but it isn’t and it’s not

Especially if its been offset by sales.

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49 minutes ago, Super said:

They’re one point off the play offs in one of the toughest leagues in the world.

what do they expect, exactly?

Well at one stage we were threatening the top two , then We where in fourth , then sixth and now what is it 9th ? 
 

The expectation is just a bit of consistency.

No City fan ever ‘ expects ‘ us to be in the Prem but we do hope and we are largely disappointed to be dropping off the pace when every thing should be in place for a proper go at the play offs. 

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50 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Some very sensible comments there particularly ‘they’re 1 point off the play offs, what do they expect?’

For our not-inconsiderable outlay, we expect to watch entertaining football played by players who can do the basics right and look like they give a toss. I don't think that's too much to ask

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29 minutes ago, RedDave said:

There will often be sackings in football where fans of other clubs will wonder what the hell the club is doing. Whether you think Lee should go or not, if we did sack him the media and fans of other clubs will be amazed!  
 

Except the fans of Oldham or  Barnsley.

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44 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

 

any fan base who's spent upward to 25 million in the transfer window has a right to expect a high position in the league

Agreed!! The club's brought the expectations on themselves ..High value sales and turn over of players also the ground and training ground.. It's premiership ambition.  So yes we do expect especially signing a centre half for 8 million.. We expect higher and more consistent performances!! That's the ground they've set this season. 

 

Edited by Street red
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31 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Look at Nett spend. That’s the only true picture 

Don't be so sensible, if you sold your whole squad and signed one player for £25m, you have a right to expect a high position in the league!

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I only expect the manager of my club not to be out thought,tactically,by the manager of a lower table league 1 team,amongst others.

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1 hour ago, B1ackbird said:

Alot of their fans hate his guts and have very long memories, I mean, Sunderland fans have never forgiven Coventry from all those years ago.. 

I'll never forgive Scott Minto for that throw in.  

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1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

its 60 million over 3 years all of which has been spent by our head coach

We sold Bryan replaced him with DaSilva

We sold flint replaced him with webster

We sold Webster replaced him with Kalas

So he’s not spent all the incoming money, at all..! 
He’s had to replace big money outgoings, with cheaper incomings to replace them! 
And it goes far beyond the 3 examples that you have highlighted there. 
 

That’s not a moan about it. It’s a sensible and prudent business model - but it highlights the difficulties that LJ faces, year on year. 

Infact, of the top of my head, I can’t think of a single position, other than Goalkeeper, where we have (directly or indirectly) replaced a first team regular with one of a higher transfer fee. 
Going right back to

Kodjia - Tammy  loan & then Fammy

Reid - Wiemann

Kelly - Bryan and then Bryan - Dasilva 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

So he’s not spent all the incoming money, at all..! 
He’s had to replace big money outgoings, with cheaper incomings to replace them! 
And it goes far beyond the 3 examples that you have highlighted there. 
 

That’s not a moan about it. It’s a sensible and prudent business model - but it highlights the difficulties that LJ faces, year on year. 

Infact, of the top of my head, I can’t think of a single position, other than Goalkeeper, where we have (directly or indirectly) replaced a first team regular with one of a higher transfer fee. 
Going right back to

Kodjia - Tammy  loan & then Fammy

Reid - Wiemann

Kelly - Bryan and then Bryan - Dasilva 

 

 

he has spent all the money, look at the player turnover, we've signed over 50 players and they aren't all free transfers

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1 hour ago, Bedred31 said:

Interesting the inevitable focus on how much we’ve spent, without noting that we’ve raked in about £80m gross in 2 years by selling most of our best players, a process that appears ongoing, viz Brownhill.

But what is overlooked is that Johnson has had years of working with these top players who a lot have now gone onto bigger things, and still not managed to make the play offs. Since he arrived he has worked with:

Kodjia, Abraham, Reid, Diedhiou

Brownhill, Pack, Tomlin, Eliasson, Palmer, Hegeler, Kent, O'Neil, Nagy, Massengo, Freeman

Bryan, Webster, Kalas, Dasilva, Kelly, Baker, Flint, Magnússon, Ayling

Bentley, Maenpaa, Gieffer

All players who have experience playing in Championship or higher leagues, several Champions League. He has had the ability to work with quality goalscorers, experienced midfielders and loads of top defenders. Several of the above have gone on to play in the premier league or made big money moves away from City under johnsons control.

A quality championship manager would have been able to work with the combinations of these players Johnson has had and reap greater success than 8th, 11th, 17th and 18th in the Championship.

Equally interesting how people focus on these players being sold, rather than the fact we have continually had top quality players in our squads at City who a lot have gone onto bigger and better things - yet Johnson gets a free clause because they are eventually sold, rather than focusing on the fact he has only once in 4 years made the top third of the division.   

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Who ******* cares what some Barnsley fans think. We have Eddie Nketiah and he’s going to get a hat trick on Saturday!

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1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

Except the fans of Oldham or  Barnsley.

Oldham fans really rate him. He did in incredibly well there all things considered. Look at them now. 

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15 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

he has spent all the money, look at the player turnover, we've signed over 50 players and they aren't all free transfers

No such thing as a 'free' transfer …. very expensive business regardless of a 'selling club 'transfer fee' or not. 

It all takes money.

 

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1 hour ago, Street red said:

Agreed!! The club's brought the expectations on themselves ..High value sales and turn over of players also the ground and training ground.. It's premiership ambition.  So yes we do expect especially signing a centre half for 8 million.. We expect higher and more consistent performances!! That's the ground they've set this season. 

 

You are right, alongside the owner stating that top 6 was the ambition for the season.

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2 hours ago, Monkeh said:

its 60 million over 3 years all of which has been spent by our head coach

We sold Bryan replaced him with DaSilva

We sold flint replaced him with webster

We sold Webster replaced him with Kalas

All of those replacements costed a lot less than the player sold

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1 minute ago, ashton_fan said:

All of those replacements costed a lot less than the player sold

i'd check the accounts before making such a claim,

We've broken our transfer record 3 or 4 times under johnson

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2 hours ago, Super said:

They’re one point off the play offs in one of the toughest leagues in the world.

what do they expect, exactly?

2 hours ago, Matty_Taylor_is_god said:

Couldn’t put it better myself.

 

* Since you ask:

- Give Shrewsbury a damn good thrashing .... to blow away the cobwebs

- Register Tinnion in time for the Liverpool game

- Beat Liverpool 1-0 (for old times sake).  Expect maddog Tinnion to  play a stormer and score with his cultured left foot

- Win the FA Cup

- Get promoted into the Prem

- Onto European Glory next season.

 

 

* I'm a fan ... not a realist

 

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1 minute ago, Monkeh said:

i'd check the accounts before making such a claim,

We've broken our transfer record 3 or 4 times under johnson

Don't have to check the accounts the figures output in the press don't even come close eg Webster sold £23m Kalas bought £8m, Flint sold £8m Webster bought £3.5M, Bryan sold £10m DaSilva bought £3m - these figures won't be exact but whatever they are LJ's made a vast profit for the club.

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1 hour ago, STeveOELlis said:

We're yet to replace Webster. Taylor Moore has stepped up, but he's not the player Webster was. Webster was the catalyst for almost all of our attacks last season and it'll be impossible to replace that, but Kalas certainly did not replace Webster

To be fair Taylor Moore is a couple of years younger than Webster, and whilst I agree he has stepped up and is not the player Webster was, its fair to say he has massive potential 

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1 minute ago, ashton_fan said:

Don't have to check the accounts the figures output in the press don't even come close eg Webster sold £23m Kalas bought £8m, Flint sold £8m Webster bought £3.5M, Bryan sold £10m DaSilva bought £3m - these figures won't be exact but whatever they are LJ's made a vast profit for the club.

so you know all the signing on fees, bonuses, undisclosed fees, add ons, as well as the tribunal payments for younger players we've picked up on a free 

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2 minutes ago, Onthefence said:

To be fair Taylor Moore is a couple of years younger than Webster, and whilst I agree he has stepped up and is not the player Webster was, its fair to say he has massive potential 

Taylor Moore is so much better since he went out on loan, I think he'll continue to improve and will have a great future at Prem level

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On 05/01/2020 at 13:02, Davefevs said:

Net spend is irrelevant these days....it’s wage bills and amortisation of players contracts that matter, both in the accounts and for FFP.

Bristol City football club (The Footie club and the Stadium are reported together under Bristol City Holdings), have the following basic finances:

Turnover / income : £17.7m (+)

Wages / Salaries: £24.6m (-)

Operating Costs (what it costs to run the business): £10.4m (-)

Amortisation of player contracts (Transfer fee divided by contract years): £8.1m (-)

Loss: £25.5m

78DA2739-E2BF-4462-A169-DF68217A13C9.thumb.jpeg.c114dfc58048f82d3f464703d772612f.jpeg

That’s why LJ cannot just spend what he generates in transfer income.  He has to take wages and depreciation (amortisation) into account.

Take Webster being replaced by Kalas.

Net spend:

Webster’s profit - £20m fee minus the £2.7m left on his amortised contract (£3.5m / 4 years - 3 years left) minus the sell-on of £1.7m (if 10% to Ipswich), means £15.6m profit

Kalas - £7m fee 

So why can’t LJ spend £8.6m more.

Because Kalas is now costing him:

£1.75m per year in amortised contract costs (£7m / 4 year contract)

£1.25m in wages per year

Webster was costing him:

£0.875m per year in amortised contract costs (£3.5m / 4 year contract)

say £15k per week - £0.75m in wages

Thats £3.0m per year that we’ve committed to for the next 4 years.  It’s 12% of our wage budget!  For one player!  Every player he buys has to be thought about in this context.  He’s twice as costly as Webster!

Now do that with Dasilva, Palmer, etc, and it shows how a big squad becomes a millstone around our necks.

 

9 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

All of those replacements costed a lot less than the player sold

 

2 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

Don't have to check the accounts the figures output in the press don't even come close eg Webster sold £23m Kalas bought £8m, Flint sold £8m Webster bought £3.5M, Bryan sold £10m DaSilva bought £3m - these figures won't be exact but whatever they are LJ's made a vast profit for the club.

I’d take off those tinted specs as they seem to have interfered with your understanding

I recommend you read DaveFevs post here and look , and understand a little deeper 

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