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Sturny

Is the squad itself top 6?

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Let’s not mention LJ here, just the players. Don’t bring any agendas in here fellas. 
 

Do you believe the players themselves have the quality to perform as a consistent top 6 team throughout the season? I do. We’ve seen some serious quality plays from individuals, I could sit here and list them but we’ve all seen it at times.

What’s your thoughts? 

 

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5 minutes ago, Seneca the Younger said:

Yes. Leeds, West Brom & Fulham are the only teams I'd say are definitely better. The rest is arguable in my opinion. 

And we beat Fulham 2-1 away from home.

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In the mix, however that could be said of a good 5/6 teams so after you take the best 4 or so there's 2 spots for 6/7 teams who have squads good enough for top 6 so some have to miss out

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10 minutes ago, Seneca the Younger said:

Yes. Leeds, West Brom & Fulham are the only teams I'd say are definitely better. The rest is arguable in my opinion. 

Dont forget Brentford.

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18 minutes ago, Sturny said:

Let’s not mention LJ here, just the players. Don’t bring any agendas in here fellas. 
 

Do you believe the players themselves have the quality to perform as a consistent top 6 team throughout the season? I do. We’ve seen some serious quality plays from individuals, I could sit here and list them but we’ve all seen it at times.

What’s your thoughts? 

 

If we win tomorrow, then yes, hopefully. 
Currently, not quite. But only 1 point off being..! 

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No I don't believe the squad is as good as top 6. We have neither the midfield or attack good enough. The defence would be if they were not constantly under as much pressure due to inability of midfield and strikers to retain possession consistently. However I am basing my opinion. Strictly on just the 7 away games I have attended. 

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No, midfield far to weak, gets over run most weeks and a strike force that doesn't strike, defence has been an absolute shambles at times, a very large mid table squad I think.

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32 minutes ago, FramptonRed said:

Dont forget Brentford.

I thought of them but I'm not so sure. Sawyers was one of their best players but looks only half as good in another team. I think their identity makes their players perform better than they would elsewhere. 

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10 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said:

What if you break it down per player?

Bentley and DaSilva are the only top 6 players I believe we have at this moment.

Kalas was f last season maybe, not so far this.

For me I'd say Eliasson and Weimann in the right systems definitely are top 6 players

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I’d say Bentley is of top 6 quality. 
A fit Baker is probably of top 6 quality. 
A fit Kalas is not far off. 
 

The rest are not. Thus, we don’t have a top 6 squad. 

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46 minutes ago, Sturny said:

Let’s not mention LJ here, just the players. Don’t bring any agendas in here fellas. 
 

Do you believe the players themselves have the quality to perform as a consistent top 6 team throughout the season? I do. We’ve seen some serious quality plays from individuals, I could sit here and list them but we’ve all seen it at times.

What’s your thoughts? 

 

On our day we are capable of beating anyone in this division but do are others

Leeds & West Brom are the strongest squads and should be pushing for autos. The next 10 placed clubs are all very similar and the ones who can get good consistency in their form will get in the other 4 play off spaces 

I would love us to go on one of our long winning streaks now but can’t see it with the options we have up front 

Defensively we have lost Baker & Kalas for a few games also

If we don’t strengthen with 2 forwards a physical midfielder and another CB then the also ran tag will be pinned on us 

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I think we have the best squad at the Gate since we lost the play-off final v Hull.  Solid shot stopper in Bentley, 2 quality centre backs in Kalas and Williams with Baker as able replacement and Taylor Moore an emerging talent, quality in Hunt and (a fit) DeSilva.  I think we're a little one dimensional in midfield especially in the height category.  Brownhill will be gone and I don't think we have a ready replacement currently at the club (on loan maybe).  Elliason is a gem and Weimann works his nuts off.  Diedhou to me is a committed workhorse but a 20 goal a season striker, he ain't.  

But, yes, we should be challenging for the play offs.

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41 minutes ago, Seneca the Younger said:

Yes. Leeds, West Brom & Fulham are the only teams I'd say are definitely better. The rest is arguable in my opinion. 

These 3 definitely 

35 minutes ago, FramptonRed said:

Dont forget Brentford.

This one possibly.

Re our squad, having done enough reviews of other squads as part of my “what can we expect...” threads I think we are in a group with Forest, Preston, Swansea and Hull, maybe Cardiff who would say they are top 6.

As you say this is not about coaches, systems or even injuries.

Not sure how long Mitrovic is out, that could hamper Fulham, and you never know who might be sold this window either. 

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2 minutes ago, Harry said:

I’d say Bentley is of top 6 quality. 
A fit Baker is probably of top 6 quality. 
A fit Kalas is not far off. 
 

The rest are not. Thus, we don’t have a top 6 squad. 

Dasilva is. 

Nagy and Massengo need a bit of time.  

A confident Brownhill wouldn’t look out of place in a top six side.

 

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3 minutes ago, Harry said:

I’d say Bentley is of top 6 quality. 
A fit Baker is probably of top 6 quality. 
A fit Kalas is not far off. 
 

The rest are not. Thus, we don’t have a top 6 squad. 

But as per the OP can we be a top 6 team. I doubt many clubs outside of the big 3 have all / most of their players as top 6 players. 

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Just now, RedDave said:

Dasilva is. 

Nagy and Massengo need a bit of time.  

A confident Brownhill wouldn’t look out of place in a top six side.

 

Dasilva has not proven anything yet. 
He’s played well at L1 and decent last season at mid-table/top 10 champ. 
Yet to prove to me that he’s a consistent top 6 quality performer. 
Nagy & Massengo definitely not proven anything yet. 
Brownhill, not for me. Not consistently enough to be called top 6 quality. 
 

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

But as per the OP can we be a top 6 team. I doubt many clubs outside of the big 3 have all / most of their players as top 6 players. 

Nope. I don’t think we can. We are missing vital ingredients.

A solid spine, for one. 

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Just now, Harry said:

Dasilva has not proven anything yet. 
He’s played well at L1 and decent last season at mid-table/top 10 champ. 
Yet to prove to me that he’s a consistent top 6 quality performer. 
Nagy & Massengo definitely not proven anything yet. 
Brownhill, not for me. Not consistently enough to be called top 6 quality. 
 

Sounds like Dyche disagrees with you! 

Dasilva was quality most of last season

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2 minutes ago, Harry said:

Dasilva has not proven anything yet. 
He’s played well at L1 and decent last season at mid-table/top 10 champ. 
Yet to prove to me that he’s a consistent top 6 quality performer. 
Nagy & Massengo definitely not proven anything yet. 
Brownhill, not for me. Not consistently enough to be called top 6 quality. 
 

Nope. I don’t think we can. We are missing vital ingredients.

A solid spine, for one. 

That’s fair enough. But if I was head coach......

 

 

 

......ok I jest!! 🤣🤣🤣

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3 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Sounds like Dyche disagrees with you! 

Dasilva was quality most of last season

I’d disagree. Dasilva was good in spells last season but had clear deficiencies in defensive areas and often was sloppy in possession. 
Still learning and he sure has potential to be up there, but he’s not proven that as yet. 

And that’s fine, I disagree with Dyche. 

Edited by Harry

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49 minutes ago, Robin101 said:

And we beat Fulham 2-1 away from home.

And we lost 3 0 at  bottom club Luton. Then beat them.  All bit non sensical   Top six with these players. Unlikely. Not enough quality final third.  As has been problem this and last season.  Await with trepidation see what happens next couple weeks 

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Difficult, I do think we have the quality to challenge for top 6 , you say we should not factor in LJ, problem is that the players don’t set the tactics - in my opinion the answer is that we shall struggle to equal last seasons position!

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7 minutes ago, dave36 said:

Difficult, I do think we have the quality to challenge for top 6 , you say we should not factor in LJ, problem is that the players don’t set the tactics - in my opinion the answer is that we shall struggle to equal last seasons position!

The request for this thread was to NOT mention LJ. Plenty of other threads for that Dave. 
This is purely chat about the quality of the players - regardless of manager, formations, motivation, etc. 
Lets try to honour the opening posters request, just this once. 
 

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12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That’s fair enough. But if I was head coach......

 

 

 

......ok I jest!! 🤣🤣🤣

You could be, if LJ were the court Jester the king would have his head! 

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34 minutes ago, Harry said:

I’d say Bentley is of top 6 quality. 
A fit Baker is probably of top 6 quality. 
A fit Kalas is not far off. 
 

The rest are not. Thus, we don’t have a top 6 squad. 

If Baker is above Kalas then maybe we had our pants pulled down paying £8m for him then.

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12 minutes ago, dave36 said:

You could be, if LJ were the court Jester the king would have his head! 

Twice in 2 posts. Come on Dave. Plenty of room elsewhere for that. Respect the thread. 

5 minutes ago, FramptonRed said:

If Baker is above Kalas then maybe we had our pants pulled down paying £8m for him then.

Indeed 

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I think a lot depends on if we can get a striker with similar qualities to Afobe. We looked a much better side before he got injured. 

 

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1 hour ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Current form suggests that the squad is not even top 6 of L1.

But we are 1 point off the top 6 of the championship?

The performances suggest otherwise but the league table does not lie

get behind the team.

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39 minutes ago, FramptonRed said:

If Baker is above Kalas then maybe we had our pants pulled down paying £8m for him then.

He isn’t 

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I believe the squad is good enough for top 6, if steered correctly, but I worry about how imbalanced the squad is with too many central midfielders and defenders and a lack of options elsewhere. 

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46 minutes ago, Fjmcity said:

The performances suggest otherwise but the league table does not lie

I've never understood this saying.  The table doesn't "lie" as such (how could it??) but it's not really that accurate in terms of where a team is at either.  Hence why the table changes every week.

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Would any of our players get into any of the current top 6 and make them better(starting XI)? Think Bentley, Kalas, Brownhill would. Everyone else arguable at best.
 

That said think a few more have the ability to be top 6 but we haven’t seen their best. Kalas and Brownhill haven’t seen their best this season. Think Bentley been fantastic considering what he has been up against. Dasilva, Nagy, Massengo and Eliasson(been great this season but hasn’t made a place in the squad his) all have the talent to be top 6 players. 
 

So that is potentially 7 top 6 players. Then you get Weimann, Fam, Baker and Williams who I think can be good starters for sides 8-12. So that makes 10 players top half worthy. 
 

Then you get good pros and probably starters for most bottom half clubs like Hunt, Smith, Watkins, COD, Moore(has potential not quite the defender I’d like him to be), Periera, And Palmer(potential to be more) so basically a full squad of championship starters at various levels. 
 

I don’t think you need top 6 players in every position to be a top 6 side. So all in all I think we have the squad(talent)for it. And yes we are a point from top 6 but performances haven’t felt like we are even that close. So yea, don’t think the squad is a massive problem but putting it down on paper makes me realise we aren’t that great which is more depressing considering what we spend on playing staff

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23 minutes ago, Roe said:

I've never understood this saying.  The table doesn't "lie" as such (how could it??) but it's not really that accurate in terms of where a team is at either.  Hence why the table changes every week.

It tells the truth ONCE a season. After 46 games.

This squad, and the way it is being managed, will end up about 10th - 12th at best IMO.

Whether this is acceptable or not  is a whole new topic, when people talk about year on year progress etc etc.

Edited by AppyDAZE

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I know he only played a few games  but if Afobe never  got injured I still think the top two was a real possibility 

 

 

Edited by sticks 1969

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We are a bit short on numbers up top. But I believe we have the ability for top 6. But would take some very good management from LJ to manage it. 

I'm not one of these that seem to think it's the end of the world if we don't make top 6.

Only 6 teams can make it, and there's plenty of very good teams so it's certainly not easy. 

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52 minutes ago, sticks 1969 said:

I know he only played a few games  but if Afobe never  got injured I still think the top two was a real possibility 

 

 

I've been tempted to start a thread for a while now called 'The Afobe Myth' arguing that maybe he did look good, but you can't assume that he would continue to be good. Maybe it was just a good patch? Who knows?

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Yes - any one of Warnock, Pearson, McCarthy, Bruce, Wilder, etc, would have us up there - and all rejected as not being good enough for our club on here ... and all have promoted zillions of clubs from the championship to the premier league, many as champions ...

Edited by BS4 on Tour...

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9 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

We are a bit short on numbers up top. But I believe we have the ability for top 6. But would take some very good management from LJ to manage it. 

I'm not one of these that seem to think it's the end of the world if we don't make top 6.

Only 6 teams can make it, and there's plenty of very good teams so it's certainly not easy. 

You’re gonna get jumped on - Harry is watching! 

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7 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Yes - any one of Warnock, Pearson, McCarthy, Bruce, Wilder, etc, would have us up there - and all rejected as not being good enough for our club on here ...

Add to that Sir Alf, Sir Bobby, Clough, Bob Paisley, Holloway...   What the **** is wrong with this Lansdown bloke??

Edited by AppyDAZE

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