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1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Oh I get it alright. 

My point is that the signing section should have been located behind the SS when the redevelopment was completed. Instead the club tucked them away in the corner.

Question is - why was that?

Because it was the only place for it to go. 

The issue is that the SS was effectively a replacement for the Atyeo stand as the Atyeo was to be given to away fans, so the majority of those in the Atyeo moved over to the SS. I cant remember exactly but I think those in the Atyeo were given priority on equivalent seats in the SS? And quite rightly. Would you be happy to give up your seat for a singing section?

The ONLY way we can have a better situated singing section at Ashton Gate is by moving the away fans but I dont think anyone has mentioned that. Lee Johnson has previously mentioned he wishes to see home fans behind both goals and I'm sure he spoke to the powers that be about that possibility but the fact nothing has come of it suggests it's a non goer. The Atyeo is perfect for away fans due to the outside compound they have been able to create so if they so wish away fans could be locked outside in that compound area whilst home fans disperse. 

I think we are stuck with the current configuration until either the Atyeo is redeveloped or a second tier is added to the SS.

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On 18/01/2020 at 17:50, Shtanley said:

Mint. Way better song selection than section 82, only wish more people in S21 made any effort to join in! 

Give it time and some better performances, and some of us old chrones may find some wind to join in. Agree it was good to hear fans trying to get behind the team with ones that most over the age of twenty five should know. Better than the drivel from S82 who appear to live in a world of their own.

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8 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

They was a visual in the Post a couple of years ago showing the same. I think it would be the ideal solution 

I think you mean these computer-generated visuals. It was an idea the SC&T suggested for installing rail seats in the S82 area with a vision for the future of then expanding that area across the back of the South Stand. Very much like what is being proposed in this thread.

 

final-stage-1B.png

final-stage-2A.png

final-stage-2B.png

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1 hour ago, Up The City! said:

Because it was the only place for it to go. 

The issue is that the SS was effectively a replacement for the Atyeo stand as the Atyeo was to be given to away fans, so the majority of those in the Atyeo moved over to the SS. I cant remember exactly but I think those in the Atyeo were given priority on equivalent seats in the SS? And quite rightly. Would you be happy to give up your seat for a singing section?

The ONLY way we can have a better situated singing section at Ashton Gate is by moving the away fans but I dont think anyone has mentioned that. Lee Johnson has previously mentioned he wishes to see home fans behind both goals and I'm sure he spoke to the powers that be about that possibility but the fact nothing has come of it suggests it's a non goer. The Atyeo is perfect for away fans due to the outside compound they have been able to create so if they so wish away fans could be locked outside in that compound area whilst home fans disperse. 

I think we are stuck with the current configuration until either the Atyeo is redeveloped or a second tier is added to the SS.

Then you have the issue of segregating fans inside the concourse in which other stand you put them in.

It's fine the way it is, and for the reasons you then say.

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6 hours ago, Blagdon red said:

I think you mean these computer-generated visuals. It was an idea the SC&T suggested for installing rail seats in the S82 area with a vision for the future of then expanding that area across the back of the South Stand. Very much like what is being proposed in this thread.

 

final-stage-1B.png

final-stage-2A.png

final-stage-2B.png

Yes! That was the one. Thank you very much for posting it. 

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10 hours ago, Puckle_red said:

It's my understanding that this is advisory as opposed to mandatory, I could be wrong.

Pretty sure the other chap means it should've been the back rows set as the unreserved section when the rebuild was complete rather than suggesting it be changed now. 

Although It actually seems like a decent idea, roughly 1100 in the corner at present how many rows would that equate to across the top of the south stand and how many would be willing to move down a row or two or willingly be added to the unreserved section or move to the corner or even another part of the ground? It could well even itself out, alternatively it could be a nightmare...

Happy to look into it further- sure I've read of it at other clubs too.

@Blagdon red is it mandatory or advisory?

The fact that a lot of clubs are stated as doing it or clubs fans cite it suggest to me that it may well be mandatory- or was? Don't know if it's changed or a myth!

Another source, fairly official- another club...police have a good rep for fan engagement.

Type into Twitter search bar, unreserved seating 10% capacity or whatever search may throw up better results.

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10 hours ago, Up The City! said:

Because it was the only place for it to go. 

The issue is that the SS was effectively a replacement for the Atyeo stand as the Atyeo was to be given to away fans, so the majority of those in the Atyeo moved over to the SS. I cant remember exactly but I think those in the Atyeo were given priority on equivalent seats in the SS? And quite rightly. Would you be happy to give up your seat for a singing section?

The ONLY way we can have a better situated singing section at Ashton Gate is by moving the away fans but I dont think anyone has mentioned that. Lee Johnson has previously mentioned he wishes to see home fans behind both goals and I'm sure he spoke to the powers that be about that possibility but the fact nothing has come of it suggests it's a non goer. The Atyeo is perfect for away fans due to the outside compound they have been able to create so if they so wish away fans could be locked outside in that compound area whilst home fans disperse. 

I think we are stuck with the current configuration until either the Atyeo is redeveloped or a second tier is added to the SS.

Yes, I was an Atyeo season ticket holder and we were given priority when moving.

Dave L said "pick your seat well as that is where you can watch City for as long as you want"

 

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11 hours ago, Galley is our king said:

Oh bless, RR is confused.

Let me try and explain it simply so hopefully you will understand.

Two friends Paul and Henry like to go to football.

Paul likes to stand up and sing whereas Henry prefers to sit down in his seat.

You with me so far?

They go to Ashton Gate and Paul joins the singer's in the block behind the goal.

Henry sits in the block next to Paul.

After the game, they meet up. Paul had a brilliant time and asked Henry what he thought of the match and in particular, City's second goal.

Henry replies "not a clue, couldn't see a bloody thing with you lot stood up"

Do you understand now? If not I will try a Janet and John version.

What happens at most other grounds when fans stand behind the goal?

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One of the original stadium design ideas had a safe standing section along the front of the SS which joined on naturally to a similar one in the lower Dolman.

Perhaps 10 rows deep, separated off from the seats above with it's own back wall and constructed at a lower level so there would be no sight infringement for the seated fans above.

Similar in set up - but obviously not the same in terms of construction - as the old enclosure/grandstand, standing at the front, seats behind.

The idea was based on a stadium abroad, perhaps Holland, with accompanying pictures, and very good it looked too imo.

I seem to remember the idea was ditched, possibly after consultation with fans' groups, in favour of looking to have standing at the back, but there was certainly much discussion about it at the time, and imo. it was disappointing the idea was ditched.

It always looked by far the best and most innovative idea to me to get the atmosphere going - a crowd of noisy fans, with flags etc.over the hoardings, standing right behind the goal, and the seated fans joining in from above.

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2 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

One of the original stadium design ideas had a safe standing section along the front of the SS which joined on naturally to a similar one in the lower Dolman.

Perhaps 10 rows deep, separated off from the seats above with it's own back wall and constructed at a lower level so there would be no sight infringement for the seated fans above.

Similar in set up - but obviously not the same in terms of construction - as the old enclosure/grandstand, standing at the front, seats behind.

The idea was based on a stadium abroad, perhaps Holland, with accompanying pictures, and very good it looked too imo.

I seem to remember the idea was ditched, possibly after consultation with fans' groups, in favour of looking to have standing at the back, but there was certainly much discussion about it at the time, and imo. it was disappointing the idea was ditched.

It always looked by far the best and most innovative idea to me to get the atmosphere going - a crowd of noisy fans, with flags etc.over the hoardings, standing right behind the goal, and the seated fans joining in from above.

Agreed, it was a really promising proposal. I was under the impression it was still being considered with a view to retrofitting it. Seems to have gone quiet on that - shame if so, because it was a really interesting idea. 

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7 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

One of the original stadium design ideas had a safe standing section along the front of the SS which joined on naturally to a similar one in the lower Dolman.

Perhaps 10 rows deep, separated off from the seats above with it's own back wall and constructed at a lower level so there would be no sight infringement for the seated fans above.

Similar in set up - but obviously not the same in terms of construction - as the old enclosure/grandstand, standing at the front, seats behind.

The idea was based on a stadium abroad, perhaps Holland, with accompanying pictures, and very good it looked too imo.

I seem to remember the idea was ditched, possibly after consultation with fans' groups, in favour of looking to have standing at the back, but there was certainly much discussion about it at the time, and imo. it was disappointing the idea was ditched.

It always looked by far the best and most innovative idea to me to get the atmosphere going - a crowd of noisy fans, with flags etc.over the hoardings, standing right behind the goal, and the seated fans joining in from above.

 

5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Agreed, it was a really promising proposal. I was under the impression it was still being considered with a view to retrofitting it. Seems to have gone quiet on that - shame if so, because it was a really interesting idea. 

The possible -10% of capacity in that given area factored in?

Can safe standing areas actually be used until the legislation changed? In the top 2 divisions, it's unclear!

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Happy to look into it further- sure I've read of it at other clubs too.

@Blagdon red is it mandatory or advisory?

The fact that a lot of clubs are stated as doing it or clubs fans cite it suggest to me that it may well be mandatory- or was? Don't know if it's changed or a myth!

Another source, fairly official- another club...police have a good rep for fan engagement.

Type into Twitter search bar, unreserved seating 10% capacity or whatever search may throw up better results.

There is a difference between safe standing and unreserved seating.

I can't see why there should be a 10% reduction for safe standing as the rail seats are safe by design rather than standing in an area which has normal seats.

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4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

 

The possible -10% of capacity in that given area factored in?

Can safe standing areas actually be used until the legislation changed? In the top 2 divisions, it's unclear!

The original idea was indeed to have rail seating along the front of the Dolman and lower part of the South Stand. However, that was at a time when to do this required special dispensation from the government to allow the installation of such seating at a football ground covered by the all-seater policy. That was not forthcoming, so the idea could not go ahead.

During those deliberations fans from the then nomadic 'singing section' also expressed a preference for any standing area in the South Stand to be at the back, rather than the front, so - responding to those wishes - the plan was amended. But couldn't go ahead for the reason stated above.

Several years on, things have now changed and clubs with grounds covered by the all-seater policy are now allowed to install rail seats (see Spurs and Wolves). This is, in fact, now recommended as a move to enhance safety in areas where fans stand persistently.

What clubs with such grounds cannot do just yet is openly operate areas fitted with seating as official standing areas. However, with the government committed to working towards allowing this, it looks certain to be only a matter of months before that happens.

So, in short, a club like City can now install rail seats as an enhancement of spectator safety in areas where fans habitually stand and is very likely to be allowed to operate such areas as official standing accommodation in the very near future.

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23 minutes ago, Lewisdabaron said:

What happens at most other grounds when fans stand behind the goal?

They probably piss other supporters off, they may be told to sit down BUT, I doubt very much it was DESIGNED for standing up and does not include safe standing facilities.

We would be designing in a problem.

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1 minute ago, bcfc01 said:

There is a difference between safe standing and unreserved seating.

I can't see why there should be a 10% reduction for safe standing as the rail seats are safe by design rather than standing in an area which has normal seats.

Yes, the 10% capacity reduction (which a SAG can, but does not have to, impose) relates to unreserved seating, not standing.

The thinking behind it is that if fans don't have an allocated seat they will fill the seating rows inefficiently, leaving gaps here and there. Latecomers will then not see those gaps and may be inclined to stand in the aisles. To avoid such standing in the aisles the capacity is reduced.

It could be argued that making the rows easier to access by replacing conventional seats with much slimmer rail seats would negate the need for any capacity reduction.

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5 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

They probably piss other supporters off, they may be told to sit down BUT, I doubt very much it was DESIGNED for standing up and does not include safe standing facilities.

We would be designing in a problem.

Indeed. Putting a standing area into any part of a ground that is going to cause a sightline issue for fans sitting in adjacent blocks is a non-starter and would never be given approval by the licensing authorities. As and when the law allows (very soon, with luck), any standing areas being retrofitted into all-seater stadia will have to be created in areas that do not obstruct the view of any seated fans in other parts of the ground.

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14 minutes ago, Blagdon red said:

Indeed. Putting a standing area into any part of a ground that is going to cause a sightline issue for fans sitting in adjacent blocks is a non-starter and would never be given approval by the licensing authorities. As and when the law allows (very soon, with luck), any standing areas being retrofitted into all-seater stadia will have to be created in areas that do not obstruct the view of any seated fans in other parts of the ground.

Thanks, that saves me writing the Janet and John version for @Robbored

😂😂😂

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10 hours ago, Blagdon red said:

I think you mean these computer-generated visuals. It was an idea the SC&T suggested for installing rail seats in the S82 area with a vision for the future of then expanding that area across the back of the South Stand. Very much like what is being proposed in this thread.

 

final-stage-1B.png

final-stage-2A.png

final-stage-2B.png

That looks brilliant, would be great if it was seriously considered.

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43 minutes ago, Blagdon red said:

Yes, the 10% capacity reduction (which a SAG can, but does not have to, impose) relates to unreserved seating, not standing.

The thinking behind it is that if fans don't have an allocated seat they will fill the seating rows inefficiently, leaving gaps here and there. Latecomers will then not see those gaps and may be inclined to stand in the aisles. To avoid such standing in the aisles the capacity is reduced.

It could be argued that making the rows easier to access by replacing conventional seats with much slimmer rail seats would negate the need for any capacity reduction.

Thank you- it's really quite unclear, legislation wise etc- at discretion of SAG?

Is it one of those whereby if the club don't follow and it goes wrong, the club risk significant liability etc?

Agreed. I notice though that clubs do tend to pass it on, the 10%.

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3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

 

The possible -10% of capacity in that given area factored in?

Can safe standing areas actually be used until the legislation changed? In the top 2 divisions, it's unclear!

Safe standing doesn’t have to be unreserved does it? People should be able to buy a ST and stand in the same spot each week

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On 18/01/2020 at 23:23, MattWSM said:

What other old songs should the new (old) singing section bring back? 

Do-be-do has to be another 

Everywhere we go
People wanna know
Who we are
Where we come from
So we tell em
We are Bristol
Bristol City 
We are the boys in red and white
We love to drink and we love to fight
We hate the Rovers
[insert manager name here] is a manual manipulator
We love the City 
Ohhhhh City we love you, we love you City we do......etc  

An example of a leader and follower song done to perfection and sadly missed!

 

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4 hours ago, Steve Watts said:

Everywhere we go
People wanna know
Who we are
Where we come from
So we tell em
We are Bristol
Bristol City 
We are the boys in red and white
We love to drink and we love to fight
We hate the Rovers
[insert manager name here] is a manual manipulator
We love the City 
Ohhhhh City we love you, we love you City we do......etc  

An example of a leader and follower song done to perfection and sadly missed!

 

A classic.

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5 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Safe standing doesn’t have to be unreserved does it? People should be able to buy a ST and stand in the same spot each week

Don't suppose there's any rule of course, but then I do read on here that the unreserved element is very much a desirable aspect. Can it be had both ways- with no capacity reduction?

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We sit in S19 corner and was a lot easier hearing S21/22 and a lot of us were singing as well.( we normally do)

 

One we heard

You're not singing over there to SS - now that could have been fun and raised the noise level but didn't hear a responce.

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8 hours ago, Steve Watts said:

Everywhere we go
People wanna know
Who we are
Where we come from
So we tell em
We are Bristol
Bristol City 
We are the boys in red and white
We love to drink and we love to fight
We hate the Rovers
[insert manager name here] is a manual manipulator
We love the City 
Ohhhhh City we love you, we love you City we do......etc  

An example of a leader and follower song done to perfection and sadly missed!

 

used to go

Gerry Francis is a ....

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On 19/01/2020 at 12:31, Phileas Fogg said:

I've always said this. Unfortunately, atmosphere has always been bottom of the list of priorities when deciding how the ground was redesigned. 

My ideal situation, albeit an unrealistic one perhaps, is for the club to redevelop the Atyeo into a proper single tiered 'home end' - a bit like the Jack Hayward stand at Molineux. Have that stand standing alone, away from the rest of the stadium bowl and make it safe standing. Have away fans in the corner nearest to that side. That has the potential to be amazing for the atmosphere in my opinion.

Image result for jack hayward stand molineux

Agree with everything youve said. Unfortunately i dont think it will ever happen.

Just being pedantic. that isnt the jack hayward stand, or "south bank" as its common referred too. the image youve used is of the stand that has been knocked down and replaced with that large two tiered stand at the other end of the ground. they did look very similar however.

This is the stand in question. With rails in place.

molineux-wolverhampton-wanderers-sir-jac

molineux-wolverhampton-wanderers-a-close

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3 hours ago, matalan12 said:

Agree with everything youve said. Unfortunately i dont think it will ever happen.

Just being pedantic. that isnt the jack hayward stand, or "south bank" as its common referred too. the image youve used is of the stand that has been knocked down and replaced with that large two tiered stand at the other end of the ground. they did look very similar however.

This is the stand in question. With rails in place.

molineux-wolverhampton-wanderers-sir-jac

molineux-wolverhampton-wanderers-a-close

Thanks, you’re right - I didn’t realise it was that end that had been redeveloped. Looked better before.

Think pre redevelopment, Molineux was up there with Ibrox, Villa Park and Anfield in my favourite more traditional stadia.

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