Jump to content
IGNORED

LJ challenging SL ?


Major Isewater

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

Who is realistically available is the first question? My only gripe is that we have clearly wasted too much time in TWO windows on some total waste of space who “plays” for Arsenal.

Have we? I don’t know how much effort we have put into him compared to other targets, I know a lot of effort has gone into Otiber’s convincing themselves we have.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Port Said Red said:

Have we? I don’t know how much effort we have put into him compared to other targets, I know a lot of effort has gone into Otiber’s convincing themselves we have.

Not to mention the Press ‘ Happy Nketiah day ? ‘ thank you Gregor McGregor , or the various betting companies who had us down as , not surprisingly , favourites to sign the lad after we narrowly missed out in the last summer window.

I am sure we are not solely looking at one player but by Bob it is complicated these days to sign anyone.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Have we? I don’t know how much effort we have put into him compared to other targets, I know a lot of effort has gone into Otiber’s convincing themselves we have.

We will as always have a list of targets that we will have been working on, the idea that we were only talking to Arsenal and Nketia is strange to say the least as its been shown not to be the case as when he fell through in the summer we quickly moved along to other targets and ended up with Afobe. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Interesting thought provoking post Max 

My personal view is I like that we appear to recruit decent human beings but I also think that means we miss out on some aspects of character and players that would help further progress , but are a gamble at the same time 

We want players to be decent human beings in a professional ruthless sport where winners  are streetwise, nasty at times , ruthless and often come with an edge - on the pitch at least

Diffiicult balance to strike 

A squad of players who are great off the pitch but a bit nasty and ruthless on it not easy to assemble !

 

It is for all the OTIB experts posting from behind their keyboards Bob!  :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Spud55 said:

He wouldn't have scored 20 goals by this point, as that would put him on course to score 40 odd bloody goals. And he was looking good, but we have hapily ****** it all up with better than Afobe, we had Bobby Reid who scored more in a season than afobe ever has at this level, and we still went to pieces. 

So I see no evidence to suggest that Afobe on his own stops the usual problems once we have a full squad and the system and personnel roulette starts in Ernest. 

 

He had scored 3 in 5, let’s say 15 or 16 in 28 league games that still could have made a huge difference, and everyone pointed out, his style of play suited the passing style more, so we were looking more attractive. 
If that was the case, the “roulette” as you call it may not have been as damaging. Certainly when we were doing well up to Xmas two seasons ago, no one cared about the rotation, until we started slipping.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, spudski said:

Unless it's changed in recent times, it's still of massive importance.

The Club look into the of players, social life, family life etc.

We do turn down players if they don't fit our wants as a hard working professional and seen as a potential bad influence or problem outside football.

Adam Griffin and the rest of the scouting team I'm told, still have to find these details as much as possible, as well as the players footballing credentials. First team and Academy.

I wonder what they consider as being respectable? A bit like your dad pre judging your prospective partner...can base their decision on outward appearance, social status etc. SL allegedly removing Luke Ayling because of Cheltenham!
 

A character doesn’t necessarily mean bad (like Tomlin) but constantly rejecting a more individual character, or a more left field type of signing, could mean that you end up with exactly the same kind of person. “A lack of leaders...etc”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Interesting thought provoking post Max 

My personal view is I like that we appear to recruit decent human beings but I also think that means we miss out on some aspects of character and players that would help further progress , but are a gamble at the same time 

We want players to be decent human beings in a professional ruthless sport where winners  are streetwise, nasty at times , ruthless and often come with an edge - on the pitch at least

Diffiicult balance to strike 

A squad of players who are great off the pitch but a bit nasty and ruthless on it not easy to assemble !

 

Why is it? Isn’t it part of a sportsperson’s DNA to be ruthless and have that win at all costs attitude? Or is it down to the coach to motivate and instil it into the minds of the players? Mental toughness has been mentioned over the years, has it been coached out of players (especially those who come through an academy) ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read the LJ article and to be honest I was ok with what he said BUT his last comment “I would be happy with my squad if you can guarantee me no more injuries” was slightly concerning.

I thought he was adamant (as I think 90% of fans are) that whatever happens we must bring in a striker.

I fear we won’t and at the moment whilst Fam is doing ok but missing decent chances, Wiemann is disappointing. Don’t get me started on Spunkyo - he is never making it at this level.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

I think this might be part of the problem, Johnson said earlier this month that Afobe   remains our player, so presumably we are paying his wages.

You seriously believe that the club just look at one player at a time? The only people putting all their eggs in one basket, were on this forum.

Does that mean we are treating him? Either way if we’ve kept him we must be confident of him returning before the end of the season I imagine, else you’d think the loan would have been terminated

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Meh said:

I read the LJ article and to be honest I was ok with what he said BUT his last comment “I would be happy with my squad if you can guarantee me no more injuries” was slightly concerning.

I thought he was adamant (as I think 90% of fans are) that whatever happens we must bring in a striker.

I fear we won’t and at the moment whilst Fam is doing ok but missing decent chances, Wiemann is disappointing. Don’t get me started on Spunkyo - he is never making it at this level.

Now call me Mr Outoftouch but who in Hades name is ‘ Spunkyo ‘ ? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I wonder what they consider as being respectable? A bit like your dad pre judging your prospective partner...can base their decision on outward appearance, social status etc. SL allegedly removing Luke Ayling because of Cheltenham!
 

A character doesn’t necessarily mean bad (like Tomlin) but constantly rejecting a more individual character, or a more left field type of signing, could mean that you end up with exactly the same kind of person. “A lack of leaders...etc”

I remember being sat watching FGRs when SoD was in charge. Sat in the Carol Embrey suite watching a game with some scouts from Birmingham and Southampton. They both remarked on one player that us and them had scouted,that had all the attributes to make it as a top player, but it was his social life, network of friends and outside 'activities' that he enjoyed too much that stopped him progressing further at a higher level. 

They really do look into outside influences these days. An example closer to home was the young German keeper we had, who enjoyed being a footballer, rather than football. We got rid as his influence would run off on other young players.

For the same reason I think Bakinsons loan will do him the world of good. As it did Reid...sometimes you need that outside influence to prove to you that you haven't made it yet.

Look at the influence Tammy also had on Reid. 

The more positive hard workers with for want of a better word...'hard working family values', the better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Does that mean we are treating him? Either way if we’ve kept him we must be confident of him returning before the end of the season I imagine, else you’d think the loan would have been terminated

Believe he is being treated back in London which also means close to family.

Not in Stoke’s interest to let it be terminated.

@spudski Austrian!! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

Brentford are not stockpiling bang average players with a modicum of potential in the hope that we get £36m for them three years down the line in anything like the ratio that we do

I misread that as patio. Strange how they’re pronounced differently, isn’t it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Kibs said:

I think Dave Fevs mentioned it yesterday too but at the game yesterday, we also discussed whether his refusal to make any subs for so long was his “Steve Cotterill” moment and a message to the board.

What I would say though is that he has been given more than enough resource in the transfer market to put the squad together he wants. 

The man himself was there yesterday! 

6EBCD52D-FC28-40BE-BA3A-EC927838E5B1.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

He had scored 3 in 5, let’s say 15 or 16 in 28 league games that still could have made a huge difference, and everyone pointed out, his style of play suited the passing style more, so we were looking more attractive. 
If that was the case, the “roulette” as you call it may not have been as damaging. Certainly when we were doing well up to Xmas two seasons ago, no one cared about the rotation, until we started slipping.

Agree it could have made a difference, but that assumes that scoring has been our problem, and I don't believe that Afobe makes us better defensively.

There wasn't much rotation that I can remember when we were doing well as we had some injuries and the system was a fairly stable 4-5-1 with either Bobby up front with Pato in behind, then the midfield 4 was Brownhill, Pack, Smith and then either Bryan or Pato depending on if Fam played, and the back 4 was largely stable with Wright, Flint, Baker and then Maggs or Bryan. 

That was the key we had a stable style and system and first 11 and it worked, then a couple of bad results and we suddenly go away from that and start chopping and changing. 

Same this season, we look reasonably solid playing 3-5-2, couple of bad results and we throw that out and then begins the annual system and personnel bingo. 

The same thing has happened for 3 years on the trot now, luckily this season the championship is so bad that we are still in touch. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

DNA didn’t stop us signing Lee Tomlin when the whole world knew he was an accident waiting to happen (as it happens he appears to be in a better place right now).

But you might be right, there may be players who failed some sort of “test” and as a result we have not got the talent in that the first team needed.

Leads to the question “do footballers have to be nice, be respectable or win football matches?”.

I think Lee Tomlin is the reason DNA is now as important as it is. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:I say , slightly tongue in cheek , hope Mrs Johnson does the household budget ..........as if left to Lee they’d have six hoovers , four microwaves, a couple of which are crap and he’s put in the loft , a spare three piece suite, a couple of shiny cars on the drive, not enough money left to pay the kids school fees, but now Lees eyeing up another new car....

Given LJ’s reported financial prudence and budgeting in the property market making him potentially (on paper at least) a millionaire, I wonder if Mrs Johnson might disagree with you....

And you need 4 microwaves when two are broken and one of the other 2 overcooks your microwave curry one day and under cooks your soup the next....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Kibs said:

I think Dave Fevs mentioned it yesterday too but at the game yesterday, we also discussed whether his refusal to make any subs for so long was his “Steve Cotterill” moment and a message to the board.

What I would say though is that he has been given more than enough resource in the transfer market to put the squad together he wants. 

The options off the bench to go win the game were Semenyo... and O'Dowda. And he even talks about possibly putting O'Dowda on earlier but he thought Pato looked dangerous.

I actually totally agree that the team on the pitch was the right team to go win the game because of the number of good chances WE were creating. And I was thinking maybe O'Dowda on a bit earlier, and that's it.

You don't have to make subs to make subs. If you've (not you specifically) complained about the "Tombola" then what are you doing complaining about him NOT making changes?

I dislike the sensationalism of the fans these days. He's sending a message, he's challenging Steve Lansdown. Blah blah.

Maybe he's just trying to win a game and saying how things are. People should leave the headlines to the Journalists. The disgusting obsession with attention has infected OTIB and its posters. Likes and replies are not a measure of self worth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Prinny said:

The options off the bench to go win the game were Semenyo... and O'Dowda. And he even talks about possibly putting O'Dowda on earlier but he thought Pato looked dangerous.

I actually totally agree that the team on the pitch was the right team to go win the game because of the number of good chances WE were creating. And I was thinking maybe O'Dowda on a bit earlier, and that's it.

You don't have to make subs to make subs. If you've (not you specifically) complained about the "Tombola" then what are you doing complaining about him NOT making changes?

I dislike the sensationalism of the fans these days. He's sending a message, he's challenging Steve Lansdown. Blah blah.

Maybe he's just trying to win a game and saying how things are. People should leave the headlines to the Journalists. The disgusting obsession with attention has infected OTIB and its posters. Likes and replies are not a measure of self worth.

Prissy . 
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Prinny said:

You use tabloid "journalism" techniques.

"Swipe" at Ashton. "Challenge" Lansdown.

Why are you, the supporter of Bristol City, trying to do that? They do it because they want people to click. Why are you?

I was opening a debate on a report I found interesting which is now into three pages which shows that I am not the only one. 
 

I interpreted the interview as a ‘ challenge ‘ to SL because that’s how it comes over to me , others may disagree . 

He is , effectively, stating that if SL has ambition then he needs to pay the going rate for the type of player needed. 
 

He also called out Mark Ashton for the lack of said player but ‘ candy wrapped ‘ it to avoid conflict. 

I see it as an appeal . LJ is covering his back  at a critical time in his management career . He knows what’s needed to match ‘ his ‘ ambition. 

I detest ‘ click bait ‘ titles and mine certainly wasn’t one of those . 

Anyhow I am happy to start topics and apparently you are in the minority to criticise my style Prinny . 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Kibs said:

Actually, if you listen to the 10 minute press conference, he doesn’t say that at all. 

4mins 50 onwards in the press conference LJ says, and I quote - “The talent ID is down to me”

He goes on to say the negotiations etc are down to MA. 

I’m not sure why you are so desperate to relinquish any responsibility from LJ for the signings we have made?

Listen to the 10 minute press conference

I did indeed listen to the whole presser and indeed he did say that “talent id” is down I him. 

The difference you need to discern is between “talent id” and “targets”. 
 

There are many people responsible for talent id, LJ being one. 

Trying to break this down as simply as possible, as it’s a regular query, this is the basic outline of how it works

All names feed into a system, or for want of a better description, a database. 
Names that go into the database could come from any sources, LJ, Macca, Holden, Ashton, Lansdown, Agents, players etc. 
That’s the ID part done. 
 

The recruitment team and analysts, headed up by Ashton, then produce data on these players.  
 

That leads to a series of likely targets.
Whereupon the analysts produce more detailed data. 

That target list is presented to LJ. 
 

LJ will have a look at this list and do some of his own ‘homework’ on them (as in @BobBobSuperBob’s Eliasson example). 
If time allows, he may even scout them personally - although in many cases this is not done, or if it is, not to the 15-20 game level you’d want to be able to ‘thoroughly’ assess a player. 
 

LJ and MA will put together their top targets. Plans A through to K as it were. 
 

MA attempts to acquire the targets, in order of plan a to k. 
 

So in summary, Talent ID is from anyone. Most research and scouting is by MA and his team. LJ expresses his priorities and MA attempts to secure them.  
The fact we may sometimes end up with Option K as opposed to option A is down to MA (and SL). There may also have been an Option P which we hadn’t fed into the system, or an Option R which was ID’d but didn’t reach the shortlist stage. 
There are of course many other complications in this process, some of which LJ will be involved in, others not, but the above is a very simplistic outline, the straw man. 

We have no head scout. We are relying more and more on the database and from names presented by specific agents (this is VERY prevalent). 
Does anyone really think LJ had a big say in Pereira, Nagy, HNM, Duric, Hegeler, Diony etc etc. 
These won’t be from the database either. They’d be from specific agents. They’d be the types who are presented to LJ as options. LJ won’t have watched Nagy 15 times to assess whether he’s got all the attributes he wants as a Pack replacement. He’d have had to go on the information presented by Ashton and his team. 
The fact we now know that Nagy doesn’t have the attributes to directly replace Pack is a fault of the process, not of LJ. And that failing means that the playing style has to adapt, ie no continuity. 

To all the doubters out there - look, I’m not excusing LJ. He does some weird things and he has to address certain aspects of his role. He plays a part in the recruitment process, of course he does. But it’s a much smaller part than the ‘traditional’ set up we’ve had in the past and which most clubs in England run. We have a different set up. A different process. That’s why only certain managers are compliant enough to work within the structure. That’s why I keep reiterating the part that Ashton has in player recruitment, and that a lot of the responsibilities fall on him. 
We do not operate a simple system such as many other teams (including us in the past) have always operated. 
Traditional systems would be “manager likes player, manager and chief scout watch player many times, we contact players club and agent and begin talks”. 
People need to understand that we don’t do this. And by that rationale the responsibility for incoming players is NOT wholly at the managers door. It’s the whole process/system and the person who’s in charge of that system is MA. That’s where the buck stops. 
 

When I’ve presented this on here before people have said “well why doesn’t LJ grow a pair and say something”. Well, I think we’re just recently witnessing his growth of a pair. He’s called Ashton out twice in a week - subtly, but it’s there. 
Now that he’s done that, the same people are now saying “he’s looking to blame anyone but himself”. 
Can’t have it both ways guys. LJ is not the sole bearer of responsibility in failing to recruit players to fit his team. And now he’s beginning to show signs of struggle against this system he’s not now passing the blame, he’s calling out the truth. For 4 years he’s been happy to stay relatively quiet. Aside from a couple of summers ago when he expressed that the “foreign experiments” need to stop, he’s been very compliant and protected Ashton. He’s now called him out. 
Yesterdays interview, for me, was very much one of “we’ve drawn up our list, if MA does his bit we’ll ideally have Option A or B. If we end up with Option K again from Slovakia I’d rather stick with what we’ve already got”. 
 

Back to @BobBobSuperBob and your points re Eliasson. I remember it well. LJ saying they were looking at the database, matching up stats for someone like Knockaert and Eliasson came up. 
LJ wouldn’t have been involved in the process of identifying him. He’d have said, I want someone with the production of Knockaert. The analysts would’ve presented him with Eliasson and LJ would’ve taken a look at his stats and footage on wyscout. 
He definitely would not have been someone that LJ himself had fed into the system. Absolutely no chance. He would’ve been fed into the database by an analyst who’d searched an assist stat on wyscout. 
 

We have to accept that this is the way we are doing things and that some will come good and others will fail. But we must please please get away from this “LJ’s signed 50 players and doesn’t know his best team” nonsense. Our model is different to all others in this league. People need to become more aware of that and not just throw their angst at the manager - whomever that may be. 

LJ needs to do better with what he’s got. Absolutely. I won’t argue with that. But what he’s got is not always what he necessarily wanted, or even what he thought he was getting. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Harry said:

I did indeed listen to the whole presser and indeed he did say that “talent id” is down I him. 

The difference you need to discern is between “talent id” and “targets”. 
 

There are many people responsible for talent id, LJ being one. 

Trying to break this down as simply as possible, as it’s a regular query, this is the basic outline of how it works

All names feed into a system, or for want of a better description, a database. 
Names that go into the database could come from any sources, LJ, Macca, Holden, Ashton, Lansdown, Agents, players etc. 
That’s the ID part done. 
 

The recruitment team and analysts, headed up by Ashton, then produce data on these players.  
 

That leads to a series of likely targets.
Whereupon the analysts produce more detailed data. 

That target list is presented to LJ. 
 

LJ will have a look at this list and do some of his own ‘homework’ on them (as in @BobBobSuperBob’s Eliasson example). 
If time allows, he may even scout them personally - although in many cases this is not done, or if it is, not to the 15-20 game level you’d want to be able to ‘thoroughly’ assess a player. 
 

LJ and MA will put together their top targets. Plans A through to K as it were. 
 

MA attempts to acquire the targets, in order of plan a to k. 
 

So in summary, Talent ID is from anyone. Most research and scouting is by MA and his team. LJ expresses his priorities and MA attempts to secure them.  
The fact we may sometimes end up with Option K as opposed to option A is down to MA (and SL). There may also have been an Option P which we hadn’t fed into the system, or an Option R which was ID’d but didn’t reach the shortlist stage. 
There are of course many other complications in this process, some of which LJ will be involved in, others not, but the above is a very simplistic outline, the straw man. 

We have no head scout. We are relying more and more on the database and from names presented by specific agents (this is VERY prevalent). 
Does anyone really think LJ had a big say in Pereira, Nagy, HNM, Duric, Hegeler, Diony etc etc. 
These won’t be from the database either. They’d be from specific agents. They’d be the types who are presented to LJ as options. LJ won’t have watched Nagy 15 times to assess whether he’s got all the attributes he wants as a Pack replacement. He’d have had to go on the information presented by Ashton and his team. 
The fact we now know that Nagy doesn’t have the attributes to directly replace Pack is a fault of the process, not of LJ. And that failing means that the playing style has to adapt, ie no continuity. 

To all the doubters out there - look, I’m not excusing LJ. He does some weird things and he has to address certain aspects of his role. He plays a part in the recruitment process, of course he does. But it’s a much smaller part than the ‘traditional’ set up we’ve had in the past and which most clubs in England run. We have a different set up. A different process. That’s why only certain managers are compliant enough to work within the structure. That’s why I keep reiterating the part that Ashton has in player recruitment, and that a lot of the responsibilities fall on him. 
We do not operate a simple system such as many other teams (including us in the past) have always operated. 
Traditional systems would be “manager likes player, manager and chief scout watch player many times, we contact players club and agent and begin talks”. 
People need to understand that we don’t do this. And by that rationale the responsibility for incoming players is NOT wholly at the managers door. It’s the whole process/system and the person who’s in charge of that system is MA. That’s where the buck stops. 
 

When I’ve presented this on here before people have said “well why doesn’t LJ grow a pair and say something”. Well, I think we’re just recently witnessing his growth of a pair. He’s called Ashton out twice in a week - subtly, but it’s there. 
Now that he’s done that, the same people are now saying “he’s looking to blame anyone but himself”. 
Can’t have it both ways guys. LJ is not the sole bearer of responsibility in failing to recruit players to fit his team. And now he’s beginning to show signs of struggle against this system he’s not now passing the blame, he’s calling out the truth. For 4 years he’s been happy to stay relatively quiet. Aside from a couple of summers ago when he expressed that the “foreign experiments” need to stop, he’s been very compliant and protected Ashton. He’s now called him out. 
Yesterdays interview, for me, was very much one of “we’ve drawn up our list, if MA does his bit we’ll ideally have Option A or B. If we end up with Option K again from Slovakia I’d rather stick with what we’ve already got”. 
 

Back to @BobBobSuperBob and your points re Eliasson. I remember it well. LJ saying they were looking at the database, matching up stats for someone like Knockaert and Eliasson came up. 
LJ wouldn’t have been involved in the process of identifying him. He’d have said, I want someone with the production of Knockaert. The analysts would’ve presented him with Eliasson and LJ would’ve taken a look at his stats and footage on wyscout. 
He definitely would not have been someone that LJ himself had fed into the system. Absolutely no chance. He would’ve been fed into the database by an analyst who’d searched an assist stat on wyscout. 

 

We have to accept that this is the way we are doing things and that some will come good and others will fail. But we must please please get away from this “LJ’s signed 50 players and doesn’t know him best team” nonsense. Our model is different to all others in this league. People need to become more aware of that and not just throw their angst at the manager - whomever that may be. 

LJ needs to do better with what he’s got. Absolutely. I won’t argue with that. But what he’s got is not always what he necessarily wanted, or even what he thought he was getting. 

If your belief / claim about about Eliasson is true Harry , then Lee spent a considerable amount of time in an open forum with MA sat alongside him , telling porkies , as he was quite clear that he himself initially homed in on Eliasson using Wyscout (Theres some long posts on here where I went into depth and detail about what was said at that Forum including a long piece on Eliassons recruitment.) and the subsequent process.

If your belief / claim is true then one of my first recommendations to LJ would be not to mislead supporters as it will come back and bite you on the ass sooner or later.

In respect of the recruitment process , the vast majority of Clubs work in a similar way , with the idea of a manager and head scout basically doing the recruitment themselves redundant certainly in the top two if not three divisions.

Personally eyes on would be paramount in my recruitment , and I’m afraid the idea that Lee didn’t watch Nagy or anyone else x times is a poor excuse 

The wide net of potential targets across Europe and the World for some Clubs of course makes it difficult to scout or watch that many players live (Although if Lee has full confidence in a playing ethos / plan and his coaches then he should be able to spend more time on recruitment as he has has previously claimed he does) 

But

As you know and I know , as do many others , that the Analysts , Lee , JMac , Dean Holden or anyone else can watch as many clips or full games of any player anywhere in the World , as they want , and although live eyes on are always the best for me , creating some idea that he has to end up signing players he’s hardly seen or knows about is , sorry , not true.

’Our model is different to all others in this league. People need to become more aware of that and not just throw their angst at the manager - whomever that may be. ’

See Above , that’s simply not so - Allegedly we use a combination of Brentford’s data crunching moneyball model , enhanced by additional leg work , eyes on and research , according to both LJ & MA

Do you think Brentford’s managers with a Head Coach are their recruiters ?

Id suggest their Head Coach has &  have had far less say on who they get provided , than LJ 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...