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Bar BS3

Top 10 truce...?

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Ok, so people have their own views, but all the LJ related threads are really quite tedious..!

How about a truce..?
I think most would agree that top 10 is ok, if not where we WANT to be, it has us at an acceptable level of English football. 

How about - outside the top 10 and the haters can post to their hearts content and the “in brigade” let them crack on without having to explain their point of view. 
 

Whereas whilst in the top 10, the “outers” stop giving us their negativity and wait for the (in their view) inevitable collapse and plummet out of the top 10. 
 

Deal..?! 

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9 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Ok, so people have their own views, but all the LJ related threads are really quite tedious..!

How about a truce..?
I think most would agree that top 10 is ok, if not where we WANT to be, it has us at an acceptable level of English football. 

How about - outside the top 10 and the haters can post to their hearts content and the “in brigade” let them crack on without having to explain their point of view. 
 

Whereas whilst in the top 10, the “outers” stop giving us their negativity and wait for the (in their view) inevitable collapse and plummet out of the top 10. 
 

Deal..?! 

So for me it isn’t actually an ‘in or out’ debate, it’s a debate about what the club can do to capitalise on the obvious form and talent we have had over the last 3 seasons, the lofty positions within the top 6 that we occupied for long periods and yet we seem to end outside of the playoffs.

We obviously have it in us (players and coach) so why do we fall away from the play offs every year?

I appreciate you can level the case at other championship clubs but I’m not interested in solving the problem for them, only for us.

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15 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Ok, so people have their own views, but all the LJ related threads are really quite tedious..!

How about a truce..?
I think most would agree that top 10 is ok, if not where we WANT to be, it has us at an acceptable level of English football. 

How about - outside the top 10 and the haters can post to their hearts content and the “in brigade” let them crack on without having to explain their point of view. 
 

Whereas whilst in the top 10, the “outers” stop giving us their negativity and wait for the (in their view) inevitable collapse and plummet out of the top 10. 
 

Deal..?! 

If you are satisfied with that then fine but some of us have higher aspirations than you.

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Johnson Out. 
:protest:

 

or In 

depending where we are from week to week .

Works for me .

Joking aside , if LJ gets us a top six finish , regardless of if we go through, then he’ll get my support for the coming season.

If we drop off then we need to look at it before the start of next season and try to get some fresh ideas and dynamism into the club to move us , hopefully, up .

 

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No deal - a forum is about opinions and I don’t think it is totally biased with LJ in and LJ Out brigades.

Yes there is some ridiculous posts from a few people who are at the far end of one side of the scale and both camps are equally annoying in their hate or rose tint.

But most are more in the middle and make good points.

Personally just to state my position - I am stuck on the fence:  which is annoying but means I like reading both viewpoints.

I think the football is generally boring and I see no identity and hate seeing lots of players like Brownhill, Hunt, Wiemann who are not really contributing most games but seem nailed on starters.

On the flip side we are in the mix and I know from my playing days that bad form can turn round quite quickly with results and accept that LJ is trying to do a job with constraints.

So difficult for me, frustration aside at times, to be 100% convinced LJ leaving is the right call. Got to say though, his interviews and Holdens bland interviews do boil my piss and I find it hard to respect either to a level where they will positively sway me to the LJ in side.

Edited by Meh
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5 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

If you are satisfied with that then fine but some of us have higher aspirations than you.

That’s a silly reply, imo. 
we all want top 6, obviously. But that doesn’t mean that 7th or 8th Should mean the manager’s head on a stick!

 

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Just now, Bar BS3 said:

That’s a silly reply, imo. 
we all want top 6, obviously. But that doesn’t mean that 7th or 8th Should mean the manager’s head on a stick!

 

In the last two seasons we have been in the top 6 for a period and then blown it....that is not acceptable and very frustating.  

This squad is actually good but LJ isnt getting the best from them. I think a better manager would have taken us further.

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We've all got higher aspirations. I want to see us win the Champions League but some perspective always good. I feel that LJ has probably taken us as far as he can and a change is required in the summer though SL has been right to keep him until now as the signs have generally been pretty good. I get the quality of football not great but results generally have been - you get half a fanbase moaning if we play well and lose and the rest moaning if we play badly and win. Can never satisfy all the people all the time but I think some of the abuse he has got on here has been very OTT.

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We have spent big this year, and looked more inconsistent than the last 2 seasons i reckon.

If we are not top 6 at the end of the season then lj goes.

Top 6 was the target, if we dont get it goodbye and thanks.

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34 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Ok, so people have their own views, but all the LJ related threads are really quite tedious..!

How about a truce..?
I think most would agree that top 10 is ok, if not where we WANT to be, it has us at an acceptable level of English football. 

How about - outside the top 10 and the haters can post to their hearts content and the “in brigade” let them crack on without having to explain their point of view. 
 

Whereas whilst in the top 10, the “outers” stop giving us their negativity and wait for the (in their view) inevitable collapse and plummet out of the top 10. 
 

Deal..?! 

People have their own views and on a forum is where to express them. There should be no rules about when you are allowed to post your views, because thats all they are your views.

As per your view about top ten, others may want top 6/4/2 its up to them not you sorry, so ITS A NO DEAL. Maybe if you dont like LJ related threads you shouldnt read them :dunno:

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26 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

In the last two seasons we have been in the top 6 for a period and then blown it....that is not acceptable and very frustating.  

This squad is actually good but LJ isnt getting the best from them. I think a better manager would have taken us further.

Perhaps, but then it begs the question who, realistically..? And what’s to say they wouldn’t achieve less..? 
Bare in mind we’d probably want someone who buys into the “project” and not just a 2 year stint on the managerial merry-go-round. 
Or someone who’d jump ship at the first offer that came after any sort of success. 

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1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

Ok, so people have their own views, but all the LJ related threads are really quite tedious..!

How about a truce..?
I think most would agree that top 10 is ok, if not where we WANT to be, it has us at an acceptable level of English football. 

How about - outside the top 10 and the haters can post to their hearts content and the “in brigade” let them crack on without having to explain their point of view. 
 

Whereas whilst in the top 10, the “outers” stop giving us their negativity and wait for the (in their view) inevitable collapse and plummet out of the top 10. 
 

Deal..?! 

I don't think i'm particularly reactionary but I am expecting an improvement on 8th this season. I want to see us have year-on-year progress and to achieve this he has to get 7th or better. I think it's right that he gets hold to account if we don't achieve this.

Harsh perhaps, and I know he works under difficult circumstances, but this isn't a hugely strong Championship this year and we have a strong squad. Personally I think that's a reasonable expectation.

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You want a truce on a forum?

Wouldn't it be simpler to shut it down? 

What is the matter with people that they are unable to accept people have a different opinion to them?

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39 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

That’s a silly reply, imo. 
we all want top 6, obviously. But that doesn’t mean that 7th or 8th Should mean the manager’s head on a stick!

 

Why? Literally the only thing to balance the god awful football is the fact that we have improved year on year. 

Considering how poor this division is this season I think an argument could be made that anything less than top 4 would not be progress, but top 6 absolutely has to be the minimum that can be accepted. 

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With the money spent and the talent at our disposal I genuinely feel another manager would get us higher than a top 10 finish.. no guarantees obviously but imo its worth taking the chance. As others have said this management team have taken us as far as they can.. 

Edited by bris red

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1 hour ago, Meh said:

No deal - a forum is about opinions and I don’t think it is totally biased with LJ in and LJ Out brigades.

Yes there is some ridiculous posts from a few people who are at the far end of one side of the scale and both camps are equally annoying in their hate or rose tint.

But most are more in the middle and make good points.

Personally just to state my position - I am stuck on the fence:  which is annoying but means I like reading both viewpoints.

I think the football is generally boring and I see no identity and hate seeing lots of players like Brownhill, Hunt, Wiemann who are not really contributing most games but seem nailed on starters.

On the flip side we are in the mix and I know from my playing days that bad form can turn round quite quickly with results and accept that LJ is trying to do a job with constraints.

So difficult for me, frustration aside at times, to be 100% convinced LJ leaving is the right call. Got to say though, his interviews and Holdens bland interviews do boil my piss and I find it hard to respect either to a level where they will positively sway me to the LJ in side.

Good post. I don't always agree with your views, others, like this, I think are spot on. Life, football, is never as black and white as some would like!

The other thing is that so much of the debate here goes on without any real knowledge of what's going on behind the scenes, so really isn't that well informed! At the end of the day 99% of us have no idea what happens in the dressing room, on the training ground, in transfer strategy and negotiations, and - probably most importantly of all in terms of LJs tenure - in Steve Lansdown's head. 

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1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

Ok, so people have their own views, but all the LJ related threads are really quite tedious..!

How about a truce..?
I think most would agree that top 10 is ok, if not where we WANT to be, it has us at an acceptable level of English football. 

How about - outside the top 10 and the haters can post to their hearts content and the “in brigade” let them crack on without having to explain their point of view. 
 

Whereas whilst in the top 10, the “outers” stop giving us their negativity and wait for the (in their view) inevitable collapse and plummet out of the top 10. 
 

Deal..?! 

That's a bit crafty don't you think? setting the threshold just low enough to keep most of us that are not entirely happy with LJ quiet, personally will never settle for just being in the top ten.  

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2 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

Ok, so people have their own views, but all the LJ related threads are really quite tedious..!

How about a truce..?
I think most would agree that top 10 is ok, if not where we WANT to be, it has us at an acceptable level of English football. 

How about - outside the top 10 and the haters can post to their hearts content and the “in brigade” let them crack on without having to explain their point of view. 
 

Whereas whilst in the top 10, the “outers” stop giving us their negativity and wait for the (in their view) inevitable collapse and plummet out of the top 10. 
 

Deal..?! 

The use of ‘In Brigade’ v ‘haters’ terminology is , in itself,  very interesting , and revealing , choice of words / labels BS3 

Not a great start 

As for the jist of it

Its a definite no from me

Firstly , for me , it’s not about League Position to a large degree, other than at no point do I want to be in , or in danger of , getting flushed back to L1

The other , exception , should be if he , somehow finishes in the Play Offs , and though other Clubs have done so , it would be a brave call to get rid 

After that , personally , my only concern is a return of decent entertainment and a judgement on whether we are making the best out of our resources and opportunities , our budget allows , and whether , within realistic limits, those in key positions are delivering poor / average or good return (With League position being only one consideration) considering things like time allowed / budget / etc etc 
 

League Position year on year is one of the few arguments I’ve seen used (repeatedly) by those staunchly behind LJ but I think the number of supporters that judge solely on League Position are few , and I’d have to say, IMHO,  shallow in their outlook 

How can it be remotely sensible or fine to do anything on the basis of any line in the league table (Save the Relegation zone) whereby one position means Red or Black ?

 

Ill use a close to play off finish as an example and why 

For example if we were to finish 7th this season but SL dismisses LJ based purely on us not finishing in the Play Offs Id say that would be ridiculous and nonsense

If he was to finish outside the play offs , and down in 12th say , but I could / can see the signs of fruition and benefit of 4 years at the helm and the sign that something is building that will deliver SLs ambitions , albeit at a slower pace than he’d ideally wish, Id stick.

 

 

If , he feels that Lee has underperformed wherever we finish , with the resources he has been provided, he may , and should IMHO consider Lees position but , my main consideration and question to myself would be , and is to me personally, 

‘Is Lee the very best Head Coach I can have here (Considering the whole spectrum of reasons and evidence ) and is he the man to take us forward and fulfil my ambitions ‘

 

 

 

I absolutely reserve the right to have an opinion about the Club as does any other supporter.

I also reserve the right to challenge , when I wish to , others opinions , and challenge them to  justify or explain those opinions , especially if I believe they are or may be , not actually the healthiest for the Club , though  undoubtedly they think they are.

Theres those blind on both sides  

 

Edited by BobBobSuperBob
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2 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

Ok, so people have their own views, but all the LJ related threads are really quite tedious..!

How about a truce..?
I think most would agree that top 10 is ok, if not where we WANT to be, it has us at an acceptable level of English football. 

How about - outside the top 10 and the haters can post to their hearts content and the “in brigade” let them crack on without having to explain their point of view. 
 

Whereas whilst in the top 10, the “outers” stop giving us their negativity and wait for the (in their view) inevitable collapse and plummet out of the top 10. 
 

Deal..?! 

If your only care is for position in the table, there really is no need to go to AG. Just look at the interweb.

The frustration is the sh** entertainment value.

 

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You’re placing way too much emphasis on league position. I think that’s unfair on the many excellent opinions that have been posted on LJ out.

As many others have said, LJ has signed a ridiculous amount of players and has the best squad we’ve seen at his disposal. Yet we don’t seem to have an identity or an idea of how we want to play.

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2 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

I think most would agree that top 10 is ok

If the peak of our ambition is for pointless mediocrity in the 2nd tier of English football whilst playing utterly inept and drab football I think you'll soon discover that I and many like me, will find more attractive propositions on which to spend our hard-earned.

Getting into the play-offs is NOT an achievement, its proof positive you weren't good enough to compete throughout the season. Lest not forget the play-offs were created to falsely generate crowds, money and interest from what had gone before. It's akin the modern penchant for promoting that everybody is a winner with losers not being labelled as such.

Give me Vince Lombardi any day.

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3 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I don't think i'm particularly reactionary but I am expecting an improvement on 8th this season. I want to see us have year-on-year progress and to achieve this he has to get 7th or better. I think it's right that he gets hold to account if we don't achieve this.

Harsh perhaps, and I know he works under difficult circumstances, but this isn't a hugely strong Championship this year and we have a strong squad. Personally I think that's a reasonable expectation.

The Championship is stronger every single year.

The fact no team has ran away in the league is evidence for it. 

If 2 teams run away from everyone else then those 2 sides are clearly much stronger than the rest. But Leeds and WBA are easily watchable for Fulham, who must have one of the strongest Championship squads ever, Brentford and Forest, the latter being a side that copied the Wolves-Mendes route of doing things, and look at how that worked for Wolves.

 

People saying the Championship is weak is a lazy glance at it, usually just looking at the names of the teams and basing their opinion on that.

It is a very strong league this year, one in which the relegated Premier League sides have struggled to get near the top of, and same for the Playoff finalists of last season.

 

In a weak division the top team would piss all over everyone. That quite clearly hasn't happened.

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4 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

The Championship is stronger every single year.

The fact no team has ran away in the league is evidence for it. 

If 2 teams run away from everyone else then those 2 sides are clearly much stronger than the rest. But Leeds and WBA are easily watchable for Fulham, who must have one of the strongest Championship squads ever, Brentford and Forest, the latter being a side that copied the Wolves-Mendes route of doing things, and look at how that worked for Wolves.

People saying the Championship is weak is a lazy glance at it, usually just looking at the names of the teams and basing their opinion on that.

It is a very strong league this year, one in which the relegated Premier League sides have struggled to get near the top of, and same for the Playoff finalists of last season.

In a weak division the top team would piss all over everyone. That quite clearly hasn't happened.

Ok, i'm not really sure why you've picked up such a small point when in essence you're actually agreeing with me in reverse? 

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1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Ok, i'm not really sure why you've picked up such a small point when in essence you're actually agreeing with me in reverse? 

I'm not at all.

And it's hardly a small point.

You're saying the league is weak when all the evidence is that it is one of the strongest Championship leagues there has been for a long time.

If it was a weak league, then arguments saying we are underachieving would have more validity. 

But it isn't. 

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1 minute ago, JamesBCFC said:

I'm not at all.

And it's hardly a small point.

You're saying the league is weak when all the evidence is that it is one of the strongest Championship leagues there has been for a long time.

If it was a weak league, then arguments saying we are underachieving would have more validity. 

But it isn't. 

I don't necessarily think we're underachieving but want to see us improve on 8th. I think that's achievable in the league - in my view, it's a weaker league if it's competitive without many standout teams. There's a whole glut of teams who could realistically reach the playoffs if they string a few wins together - even down to teams who are currently mid-table.  

Instead of spoiling for an argument all the time, what do you think is a realistic aim?

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3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I don't necessarily think we're underachieving but want to see us improve on 8th. I think that's achievable in the league - in my view, it's a weaker league if it's competitive without many standout teams. There's a whole glut of teams who could realistically reach the playoffs if they string a few wins together - even down to teams who are currently mid-table.  

Instead of spoiling for an argument all the time, what do you think is a realistic aim?

Spoiling for an argument?

I raised a point I disagreed with, explained why and provided evidence to back up my thought. When did that become "spoiling for an argument"?

Edited by JamesBCFC

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1 minute ago, JamesBCFC said:

Spoiling for an argument?

I raised a point I disagreed with, is that not allowed now?

No, but I've seen enough of your posts over the years to know what you're like on this forum 😉

You could argue that responding to the bait about being argumentative and not answering the legitimate question to get discussion back on track is 'spoiling for an argument' though 😀

What do you think is a realistic aim for us this season? 

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1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

No, but I've seen enough of your posts over the years to know what you're like on this forum 😉

You could argue that responding to the bait about being argumentative and not answering the legitimate question to get discussion back on track is 'spoiling for an argument' though 😀

What do you think is a realistic aim for us this season? 

Oh **** off.

I tried to debate and raised my point respectfully. 

You have responded with jibes at me twice.

Absolutely no need for that

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32 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

The Championship is stronger every single year.

The fact no team has ran away in the league is evidence for it. 

If 2 teams run away from everyone else then those 2 sides are clearly much stronger than the rest. But Leeds and WBA are easily watchable for Fulham, who must have one of the strongest Championship squads ever, Brentford and Forest, the latter being a side that copied the Wolves-Mendes route of doing things, and look at how that worked for Wolves.

 

People saying the Championship is weak is a lazy glance at it, usually just looking at the names of the teams and basing their opinion on that.

It is a very strong league this year, one in which the relegated Premier League sides have struggled to get near the top of, and same for the Playoff finalists of last season.

 

In a weak division the top team would piss all over everyone. That quite clearly hasn't happened.

Disagree, the top teams have moved closer to the bottom teams, not the other way around. Wolves from 2 years ago piss this league, Sheffield United and Norwich from last season piss this league. The league is a lot closer this year but that is not because it is stronger, the 3 teams that go up this year I think without major investment come straight back down comfortably, while in previous years the teams promoted have been able to mix it with the PL teams, none of the team in this league are even close to the PL in standard. 

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3 minutes ago, Spud55 said:

Disagree, the top teams have moved closer to the bottom teams, not the other way around. Wolves from 2 years ago piss this league, Sheffield United and Norwich from last season piss this league. The league is a lot closer this year but that is not because it is stronger, the 3 teams that go up this year I think without major investment come straight back down comfortably, while in previous years the teams promoted have been able to mix it with the PL teams, none of the team in this league are even close to the PL in standard. 

My argument is that the top teams are unable to run away because the rest of the league is stronger.

Even if the bottom few are weaker it is the bulk of the division that makes the difference. 

 

As for the teams that go up. This season alone should show that how they perform is near impossible to predict,  Villa spent £100m and are fighting relegation,  Norwich pissed the league and spent a bit and are struggling.

Sheffield United were Norwich's only real competition and are fighting for Europe without spending a tonne.

 

Out of the 3 teams who just left the Premier League, only 1 of them is in any position to fight for a return without the lottery of the playoffs, because the bulk of the Championship has got stronger. 

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3 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

My argument is that the top teams are unable to run away because the rest of the league is stronger.

Even if the bottom few are weaker it is the bulk of the division that makes the difference. 

 

As for the teams that go up. This season alone should show that how they perform is near impossible to predict,  Villa spent £100m and are fighting relegation,  Norwich pissed the league and spent a bit and are struggling.

Sheffield United were Norwich's only real competition and are fighting for Europe without spending a tonne.

 

Out of the 3 teams who just left the Premier League, only 1 of them is in any position to fight for a return without the lottery of the playoffs, because the bulk of the Championship has got stronger. 

Still disagree, Norwich have spent no money at all and refuse to compromise their style, they will be relegated, but they have planned for that, they will get promoted again, then they ah e more money to spend and can bring in a few more players and look to improve in the premiership. Sheff I were the best team in this division last year, and that is showing with their performance in the Premier league, Villa much to my annoyance will be safe in the end I think as they have quality. 

The three teams that came done bar Fulham were basket cases, Huddersfield were a total mess and will do well to not get relegated again, Cardiff were not in a much better state. The only team that can compete are Fulham and they have no defenders, they would not be third in many previous seasons considering they can't defend at all, none of this is anything to do with the strength of this league it's to do with their weakness. 

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