Why didn't Lansdown appoint Bielsa?

[JBFC II]

3 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said:

I believe Bielsa will do for Leeds. Leeds and West Brom still have a significant gap on the rest of the table.

What I want for Bristol City FC is an owner who appoints a manager that has a) already taken a Club from the Championship into the Premiership or b) is recognised internationally as a great manager (some one who has managed an international team wouldn't be too bad)

If we're not even thinking that way then it's appalling

Name someone then that fills both categories...

[southvillekiddy]

Afternoon all you other City-mad ****ers. Sitting down to the sunday roast now. Oh sod it, got to take the cat to the Vets first.

TA TA.

[Bristol Rob]

7 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said:

I believe Bielsa will do for Leeds. Leeds and West Brom still have a significant gap on the rest of the table.

What I want for Bristol City FC is an owner who appoints a manager that has a) already taken a Club from the Championship into the Premiership or b) is recognised internationally as a great manager (some one who has managed an international team wouldn't be too bad)

If we're not even thinking that way then it's appalling

 

Name 3 who you think could fit that mould and be realistic, top of my head I have got the following who got your criteria, and I wouldn't appoint any of them.

Sam Allardyce 

Martin O'Neill

Kevin Keegan

[chinapig]

8 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said:

I believe Bielsa will do for Leeds. Leeds and West Brom still have a significant gap on the rest of the table.

What I want for Bristol City FC is an owner who appoints a manager that has a) already taken a Club from the Championship into the Premiership or b) is recognised internationally as a great manager (some one who has managed an international team wouldn't be too bad)

If we're not even thinking that way then it's appalling

 

As a matter of interest, and ignore me if memory is playing tricks on me, do you still believe we should and could have persuaded Rafa Benitez to be our Head Coach?

[Phileas Fogg]

14 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said:

I believe Bielsa will do for Leeds. Leeds and West Brom still have a significant gap on the rest of the table.

What I want for Bristol City FC is an owner who appoints a manager that has a) already taken a Club from the Championship into the Premiership or b) is recognised internationally as a great manager (some one who has managed an international team wouldn't be too bad)

If we're not even thinking that way then it's appalling

 

Would you have been disappointed with Chris Wilder then if we had appointed him in say 2017?

[Coppello]

A Sunday roasting sponsored by @southvillekiddy. 

[WhistleHappy]

2 hours ago, southvillekiddy said:

So why do we waste millions on duff players?

Good question, 

Expect incoming in summer window...   

Printing next seasons shirts already... 

 

[WhistleHappy]

1 hour ago, southvillekiddy said:

Give us a chance I've got the sunday roast on. I said I'd look into it didn't I?

Hmm, is it Chicken today? 

BTW ....Do you spatchcock your birds or stuff them in the conventional way?  

[Harry]

1 hour ago, southvillekiddy said:

I believe Bielsa will do for Leeds. Leeds and West Brom still have a significant gap on the rest of the table.

What I want for Bristol City FC is an owner who appoints a manager that has a) already taken a Club from the Championship into the Premiership or b) is recognised internationally as a great manager (some one who has managed an international team wouldn't be too bad)

If we're not even thinking that way then it's appalling

 

For option b), recognised internationally, managed international teams, AND has experience in England, let’s maybe have a word with, ooohhh, I dunno, Sven Goran Eriksen?

 

Loving this thread by the way Southvillekiddy.

[downendcity]

13 minutes ago, WhistleHappy said:

BTW ....Do you spatchcock your birds or stuff them in the conventional way?  

A question for Rudolph? 

[Bristol Rob]

8 minutes ago, Harry said:

For option b), recognised internationally, managed international teams, AND has experience in England, let’s maybe have a word with, ooohhh, I dunno, Sven Goran Eriksen?

 

Loving this thread by the way Southvillekiddy.

The answer is clear Slim.

Promotion achieved, international experience, Wembley appearance...

GARY JOHNSON!

[Harry]

1 hour ago, Bristol Rob said:

Name 3 who you think could fit that mould and be realistic, top of my head I have got the following who got your criteria, and I wouldn't appoint any of them.

Sam Allardyce 

Martin O'Neill

Kevin Keegan

Given its Sunday lunch, and I’m not sure what Southvillekiddy is cooking up, but surely that ought to be 

Ham Allardyce?

Perhaps we could lure Alex Burgerson out of retirement  

Maybe we ought to sign Frank Ribeye-ry? 
Or even Franck Lebeouf. 
That Jack Wiltshire Ham has always looked a good player. 

What’s Aspara-Gus Hiddink doing these days? 
 

 

[Prinny]

1 hour ago, southvillekiddy said:

I believe Bielsa will do for Leeds. Leeds and West Brom still have a significant gap on the rest of the table.

What I want for Bristol City FC is an owner who appoints a manager that has a) already taken a Club from the Championship into the Premiership or b) is recognised internationally as a great manager (some one who has managed an international team wouldn't be too bad)

If we're not even thinking that way then it's appalling

 

Bielsa failed last season and I wouldn't call a 4 point.. or possibly two if Forest win the game in hand a significant gap.

So proven failure in English football. Leeds expectations are to go up automatically. A rookie manager in England. No history in the championship. As many promotions as LJ has here. Also his teams destroy themselves because of the harsh methods. He's never anywhere longer than a couple of years.

I actually love Bielsa, and his contribution to the football game and my personal enjoyment of it, but if you want to shine the same light on him as you do LJ, there's stuff there as to why you wouldn't want him.

Short term, high cost, high risk. You can see why SL doesn't do that when he's aiming for sustainability.

[MarcusX]

2 hours ago, southvillekiddy said:

No I've never said that . Ashton announced that we wouldn't be going for promotion in a spectacularly ill-timed, ill-considered Christmas message that ensured that our best players would want to leave a Club with little ambition. Bielsa arrived at Leeds that season?

Can't see that calling it the Premiership or the Premier League is that crucial to any argument?

Just comes across as a bit “out of touch” to me, like the rest of your points 

[MarcusX]

1 hour ago, southvillekiddy said:

In my view this was a kick in the privates to a team that had fairly recently beat Man U and the consequence was that all the stuffing went out of them and 3 of our best decided to leave. If they had bought into what Ashton was saying they would have stayed believing that Bristol City were truly ambitious about Premiership football. I've said before that Clubs with a stronger pedigree than ours would have have given almost everything to be in our position at the time. It was a fallacy on Ashton's part to imply that you can choose when you are going for promotion. If the chance arises as it had for us you have to go for it and we had the team IMO. 

The team ran out of tempo from the high press, number of games and then a couple of really painful results - losing to Man City relatively narrowly and that Wolves defeat really knocked them. 
 

I don’t think the players who left would even have paid any attention to that statement, especially as they were technically in control of their future league with City (assuming they downed tools like you seem to suggest)

They got offers for Premier League football and took it, that’s all there is to it (except Flint, but he was gone downhill since so I think this was a good sale by the club)

All Ashton is implying here is that they weren’t going for broke to make promotion, Not that they didn’t want it.

[havanatopia]

 

3 hours ago, Bas's perfect hattrick said:

Probably because Bielsa is tall and his dad was never manager... 

Whenever I see him on the touchline he looks about 2 ft tall. 

1 hour ago, WhistleHappy said:

Hmm, is it Chicken today? 

BTW ....Do you spatchcock your birds or stuff them in the conventional way?  

I think he must be a sous vide type of cook especially if he drops everything to take his dog to the vets.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, southvillekiddy said:

In my view this was a kick in the privates to a team that had fairly recently beat Man U and the consequence was that all the stuffing went out of them and 3 of our best decided to leave. If they had bought into what Ashton was saying they would have stayed believing that Bristol City were truly ambitious about Premiership football. I've said before that Clubs with a stronger pedigree than ours would have have given almost everything to be in our position at the time. It was a fallacy on Ashton's part to imply that you can choose when you are going for promotion. If the chance arises as it had for us you have to go for it and we had the team IMO. 

We also had a £25m loss in 2017/18. We HAD to sell and restructure summer 2018,or in 2018/19 or moving forward we'd have fallen foul of FFP last season quite probably- soft embargo as a starting point and we all know where that leads...

We had to sell, Leeds had a turnover of £15m more than us that year and a strong FFP position. They could do this, we had to adjust. 

That's before we even get into the fact that in summer 2018, LJ was in credit, things looked good, and Leeds a much bigger club with a history etc, fans outside the UK.

I understand think big but just not possible. That said a high calibre coach can take what seems like average players and get them performing above the sum of their parts, sometimes drastically so!

[southvillekiddy]

10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

We also had a £25m loss in 2017/18. We HAD to sell and restructure summer 2018,or in 2018/19 or moving forward we'd have fallen foul of FFP last season quite probably- soft embargo as a starting point and we all know where that leads...

We had to sell, Leeds had a turnover of £15m more than us that year and a strong FFP position. They could do this, we had to adjust. 

That's before we even get into the fact that in summer 2018, LJ was in credit, things looked good, and Leeds a much bigger club with a history etc, fans outside the UK.

I understand think big but just not possible. That said a high calibre coach can take what seems like average players and get them performing above the sum of their parts, sometimes drastically so!

Finished the roast, back on duty.

Thankyou for that fair and considered response my friend

I'm just worried about the grinding slowness of it all and Ahem! I'm not sure that a hot-shot business man couldn't get around FFP. Clubs in the Prem seem to manage it.

[Kid in the Riot]

4 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

£4 million a year

About eight times as much as what Johnson gets paid.

Is Bielsa eight times better?!

[southvillekiddy]

3 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

About eight times as much as what Johnson gets paid.

Is Bielsa eight times better?!

We will never know. The message I get on here is "No, no, no, no, no. That's not for the likes of us"

"Kick I in the nuts again Mr Landsdowns"

[MC RISK77]

10 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

About eight times as much as what Johnson gets paid.

Is Bielsa eight times better?!

He is only 8 points better currently so would suggest is very much not value for money if your thoughts on salary are right.

 

[Chappers]

I'm amazed that we did not go for Pep, plus signing Messi, Van Dijk and DeBruyn, I mean, do we have no ambition?

[Crackers Corner]

3 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

Bielsa is overrated

I wouldnt want a manager who needs a translator to conduct interviews or team talks.

[BobBobSuperBob]

23 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

About eight times as much as what Johnson gets paid.

Is Bielsa eight times better?!

You will have a better idea about his annual pay than me KITR but I’d be surprised if Lee is on £500k 

But it’s somewhat irrelevant £500k / £800k / £1 million

£4 million for a coach when considering the cost of player churn and costs is not a large sum at our level, if the manager maximises the potential of his squad

What percentage of our annual wage bill would 4m for a head coach be ?

You may also want to  balance what Bielsa costs in wage to what he’s spent on signings during his tenure at Leeds -

Whos more expensive ?

(See Kasey Palmer @ £4m and what £1m maybe more Annually slumped in the corner of the Lansdown totally alone - at the present time Leeds money for Bielsa looks better spent than ours on Palmer)

Im not suggesting Bielsa was a realistic potential recruit for us or should have been 

Is he 5x / 6x /8x better than LJ ?    is that a valid consideration ?

If he gets Leeds up his wages will look like chicken feed 

The idea of using a chunk of our budget on a quality head coach is one I would seriously consider & endorse.

 

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

9 minutes ago, MC RISK77 said:

He is only 8 points better currently so would suggest is very much not value for money if your thoughts on salary are right.

 

Promotion to the Premier League - Minimum of over £200 million benefit

Bielsa hasn’t got them up yet , but if he does it will look like pocket money let alone value for money

Its not the only way to get promoted but it’s certainly put Leeds in the mix last couple of years 

[Prinny]

6 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

The idea of using a chunk of our budget on a quality head coach is one I would seriously consider endorse.

It's the most efficient use of money (other than maybe a world class academy or recruitment team).

If you could guarantee that they're going to get more out of a set of players than someone else. Where's that guarantee though?

6 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Promotion to the Premier League - Minimum of over £200 million benefit

Bielsa hasn’t got them up yet , but if he does it will look like pocket money let alone value for money

Its not the only way to get promoted but it’s certainly put Leeds in the mix last couple of years 

Yeah you're right, and that's why teams over spend, chase the dream and go bust.

Just sign this player, if we go up it's pocket change. Just sign this manager, if we go up it's pocket change.

You always have to ask the question, but what if we don't go up? To which the joke will be, that's why we have LJ, to ensure we know the outcome.

We have to be responsible in what we do. Because that's how SL wants the club run.

[RedLionLad]

1 hour ago, havanatopia said:

Whenever I see him on the touchline he looks about 2 ft tall. 

Whenever I see him on the touch-line it looks like he’s have a dump...

[ChippenhamRed]

5 hours ago, southvillekiddy said:

So why do we waste millions on duff players?

 

4 hours ago, southvillekiddy said:

I'll look into that mate. What's sure is that we'll find it pretty hard to remember the names of many of our signings in the last 4 years

I keep hearing this suggestion that we’ve “wasted millions” on duff players, and it’s rarely challenged, as if it’s objective fact. Is it?

If our recruitment was really that bad, would we have managed to climb the table for five successive seasons?

Tomlin and Engvall spring to mind as expensive recruits that clearly didn’t justify the money spent. Palmer looks like he might be another. Beyond that we’ve had some fairly neutral signings like Djuric, Pisano, Watkins, Walsh for example. Then we’ve had some crap loans, like Diony and Kent - but then they were loans, so our financial exposure was limited.

Personally I find it easier to recall many more signings who have - overall - been broadly positive i.e. have made at least useful contributions to the first team; 

Brownhill, Kalas, Webster, Dasilva, Tammy, Fammy, Hunt, Bentley, Massengo, Moore, Wiemann, Maenpaa, Eliasson, Baker, Wright, Taylor, Afobe, Williams.

Plus of course you have to consider the money returned by selling players that, at the time, had effectively become too good for us; Reid, Bryan, Flint, Webster.

Is it actually a lazy accusation without much foundation that we’ve “wasted millions” on players? I think it might be.

[tin]

5 hours ago, southvillekiddy said:

Instead of wasting millions signing 60 odd players most of whom turn out to be average to poor why doesn't our owner/chairman spend a significant part of that money where it will really count on an internationally acclaimed manager?

Seems to be working for one of our competitors for promotion to the Premiership

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/marcelo-bielsa-good-bad-leeds-14748371

I get your point, mate. It's not necessarily about going after Bielsa, for example, it's about spending the money we have available wisely.

SL would have happily paid the going rate for a proven senior executive at Hargreaves Lansdown and would not have accepted second best, so why has he consistently adopted that approach for the City over the years?

I don't think anyone can dispute us having a bloated squad. Right now, there are 28 players listed on the first-team squad page of the club website (excluding Rodri). If we had a squad of up to 25, that would free up resources to go after a quality manager.

If we paid the going rate for that, I think we could attract someone with a proven track record. After all, money talks. SL, however, has never wanted to go down that path for whatever reasons. 

 

[southvillekiddy]

3 minutes ago, tin said:

I get your point, mate. It's not necessarily about going after Bielsa, for example, it's about spending the money we have available wisely.

SL would have happily paid the going rate for a proven senior executive at Hargreaves Lansdown and would not have accepted second best, so why has he consistently adopted that approach for the City over the years?

I don't think anyone can dispute us having a bloated squad. Right now, there are 28 players listed on the first-team squad page of the club website (excluding Rodri). If we had a squad of up to 25, that would free up resources to go after a quality manager.

If we paid the going rate for that, I think we could attract someone with a proven track record. After all, money talks. SL, however, has never wanted to go down that path for whatever reasons. 

 

At last mate. Someone on here who can think generically. Thankyou