Shtanley Posted January 20, 2020 Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said: Who can recall him playing for Newport when on loan in the FA cup against premier league sides, Leicester City one, and was it Boro ? The pundits drooling over him as he gave defenders a torrid time. Off to Chelsea for mega money ? where was he played ? Not as an out and out striker but a wider and deeper position? Have we utilised him in a similar position. Are we actually getting best out of him. Food for thought Semenyo sees himself as a LW fwiw, cutting inside. Our system(s) don’t have a position like that though. 3 minutes ago, RedDave said: It’s hard to think how he could have been treated worse than he has. Given next to zero game time. Told to warm up constantly with no thought of bringing him on unless we are incredible desperate. Rodri given game time above him. Not played but not loaned out. Lee Johnson has been given the task of promoting youth but refuses too despite his obvious talents and despite other forward players being tired. As most know I am a LJ advocate (because he is part of a plan that needs to be completed before it can be judged) but youth is an area he falls down on massively. Further to that point, Moore should be ahead of Williams. nice to know some people agree, would like but have none left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted January 20, 2020 Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, Shtanley said: Signed him and said he plays two up front so needs four strikers. Yet hardly used Semenyo... Surely we both agree the persistent use of Rodri over Semenyo even when it had been decided he was going to be released was ridiculous? You say ridiculous, I say atrocious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtanley Posted January 20, 2020 Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, RedDave said: You say ridiculous, I say atrocious To be honest I do agree with you if you’re implying an angle from LJ of spite. I see Rodri as a big F U to the pathway, the academy and Semenyo. Same thing when he brought in marinovic over O’Leary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted January 20, 2020 Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 1 minute ago, RedDave said: It’s hard to think how he could have been treated worse than he has. Given next to zero game time. Told to warm up constantly with no thought of bringing him on unless we are incredible desperate. Rodri given game time above him. Not played but not loaned out. Lee Johnson has been given the task of promoting youth but refuses too despite his obvious talents and despite other forward players being tired. As most know I am a LJ advocate (because he is part of a plan that needs to be completed before it can be judged) but youth is an area he falls down on massively. Further to that point, Moore should be ahead of Williams. In LJs defence, I genuinely don’t think he wanted him back from his loan. Certainly didn’t want to play him. Think this might be the old chestnut of interference from above in order to save buying another striker and promoting home grown youth. ... and another Manager who might be having a hissy fit. Who’s right and wrong, I’m not sure. Certainly, Semenyo from what I’ve seen has done little to demonstrate he is any where near ready at least when he’s played in a City shirt but, as others have said, is that through bad coaching and/or not playing to his strengths? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted January 20, 2020 Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Shtanley said: To be honest I do agree with you if you’re implying an angle from LJ of spite. I see Rodri as a big F U to the pathway, the academy and Semenyo. Same thing when he brought in marinovic over O’Leary. I am not sure I agree regarding spite. I just think LJ cannot bring himself to trust youngsters regarding a solitary 90 minutes. He cannot think long term despite being given the time to do so. I would give him another 18 months to prove his worth before an ultimate judgement. And even then if he was promoting youth and playing decent football I would keep him. My overall belief is when a decision is made over who to play, to pretty much always go with youth. You then get the progression (hopefully) and are in a better position in a years time. I said I wanted to see Taylor Moore play in 25-30 games this season regardless of performances, within reason, as then next season we have a proper centre backs on our hands. What happens? Moore plays well but an aged centre back in Williams gets in ahead of him. Sememyo is another example. Give him games. Then next season we can have a real go. Morrell/Walsh is another. Loan one out but not both and then you don’t have to flog Brownhill until he turns crap like now. As I say, I would give LJ a lot longer but his youth stance infuriates me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted January 20, 2020 Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, RedRock said: In LJs defence, I genuinely don’t think he wanted him back from his loan. Certainly didn’t want to play him. Think this might be the old chestnut of interference from above in order to save buying another striker and promoting home grown youth. ... and another Manager who might be having a hissy fit. Who’s right and wrong, I’m not sure. Certainly, Semenyo from what I’ve seen has done little to demonstrate he is any where near ready at least when he’s played in a City shirt but, as others have said, is that through bad coaching and/or not playing to his strengths? He’s been effective on loan as a winger. As far as I recall he has played zero minutes as a winger for us. He is clearly raw but play him wide. The ‘if he was good in training he would play’ comments are nonsense. Plenty of examples of players being thrown in an excelling. Marcus Rashford is the best example (again a striker who started on the wing) who, it was said, was 12-18 months away from being ready, or so Man Utd coaches believed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 45 minutes ago, Shtanley said: Signed him and said he plays two up front so needs four strikers. Yet hardly used Semenyo... Surely we both agree the persistent use of Rodri over Semenyo even when it had been decided he was going to be released was ridiculous? No. In some cases it was the wrong choice to use Rodri, but not all. I could spell it out, but you are so entrenched in the view you already have that LJ despises AS that it would be a waste of my time until you learned to actually take a more balanced view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funky monkey Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 He’s got talent/potential and has been given some first team experience but he’s not the answer. I don’t think people realise the quality of our first team players. If you think there not performing you wouldn’t want to see what would happen to our youngsters in this league. . We need to sign proven quality . If we can’t do this then we focus on getting the best out of our current squad. If we don’t go up this year then so what. I’ll look forward to next year and hopefully we can improve again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 8 hours ago, bcfcredandwhite said: Sorry but I’ve yet to see what people see in Semenyo. Admittedly I didn’t see the PNE game. The first time I saw him for us he got sent off after a few minutes vs Derby. Clearly LJ sees something in him because he’s normally on the bench. I agree that a loan spell to League 1 would do him good - maybe the jump from League 2 (Newport) to the Championship was too great? .... or maybe I just don’t know anything about football. Sorry but he is ‘meh’ at best for me. I REALLY hope he gets to shine - I just can’t see it happening any time soon. The reason he’s normally on the bench isn’t because johnson sees something in him, it’s more to do with league rules about home grown players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 7 hours ago, Shtanley said: Signed him and said he plays two up front so needs four strikers. Yet hardly used Semenyo... Surely we both agree the persistent use of Rodri over Semenyo even when it had been decided he was going to be released was ridiculous? Rodri played in about 4 games as a sub, hardly persistent use is it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Think really he needed another loan this season where he'd play ever week. He needs to be somewhere of about League 1 level, but fairly local so feasibly he can still train with us sometimes and feel part of the squad. If there wasn't the rivalry, Rovers would probably be the ideal destination. Shame Yeovil have dropped a few leagues. Plymouth might be a good destination (albeit League 2) but are a bigger club than that level and doing well. It's obvious he needs the gametime and it's also obvious he has something about him. I just hope the training has been really useful for him this year (?!) because otherwise that's effectively a year of his development wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 15 hours ago, JonDolman said: I think the criticism was harsh of Antoine. It's that Reading performance which did it. But I thought he was ok in a couple of other games and good against Preston. I support him by honestly saying his attributes, which is what he can do, not necessarily what he is doing when he plays. And people laugh or send confused emojis. People can't seem to grasp his age and how good he obviously is for that age. People genuinely believe he is simply awful and does not try. It’s interesting, the last time I saw him play he looked like he was on cruise control, not playing at real speed. I felt he was holding himself back and would love to see him really let loose (unshackled as Jack Hunt would say) as I really feel we haven’t seen him at full throttle. I guess this is down to instruction from the bench? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 12 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said: It’s interesting, the last time I saw him play he looked like he was on cruise control, not playing at real speed. I felt he was holding himself back and would love to see him really let loose (unshackled as Jack Hunt would say) as I really feel we haven’t seen him at full throttle. I guess this is down to instruction from the bench? I think he seemed to be thinking too much. Like he didn't know exactly where to position himself etc. He ran around a lot away at Brentford and Preston. I don't see a lack of effort, but more lack of confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_s Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 16 hours ago, Rocking Red Cyril said: OK so he has not always shown all we need from a striker when given a chance. But would not a extended run in the starting eleven be worth a go.. Surely all the time on the bench serves no purpose he better on loan Thoughts Agreed! He needs a good loan deal to help him progress. I'd love to be proven wrong but really don't think he's ready for championship football and looks out of sorts. He he gets an extended run and continues to not impress then it will do his confidence no good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 25 minutes ago, JonDolman said: I think he seemed to be thinking too much. Like he didn't know exactly where to position himself etc. He ran around a lot away at Brentford and Preston. I don't see a lack of effort, but more lack of confidence. I don’t mean lack of effort but more, probably like you say, overthinking, he isn’t playing at full flow yet. Even when he runs he looks as if he’s cruising along. Maybe that’s just his running style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtanley Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 10 hours ago, JamesBCFC said: No. In some cases it was the wrong choice to use Rodri, but not all. I could spell it out, but you are so entrenched in the view you already have that LJ despises AS that it would be a waste of my time until you learned to actually take a more balanced view. You can call my opinion an ‘agenda’ or a ‘false narrative’ all you want. LJ simply doesn’t trust young academy players, it’s a fact. Given the choice he’d rather: flog players until they run out of gas, (Pack last season playing 46 league games, Morrell playing 1). Or sign frees rather than giving them game time to improve (Marinovic over O’Leary and Rodri over Semenyo(even playing him when he knew Rodri was getting released!)). He’ll sometimes give young signings we've made time to grow and improve, Brownhill, COD, Eliasson, got seasons to improve/learn and Moore to a lesser extent. Where is the patience for academy players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 15 hours ago, Shtanley said: Started in draws away to Brentford and to Preston. The kid can play, should have been given more game time and the signing of Rodri is a ridiculous slap in the face to a kid that LJ said “was struggling for confidence”. The Barnsley game when we messed up at 2-0 was the turning point, neither Palmer nor Semenyo have really featured since. They are not the same types of player though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtanley Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: They are not the same types of player though. Yeah ones a street-rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Major Isewater said: They are not the same types of player though. Don't waste your time. Posts like below show that their view is set in stone and reason is beyond them. 2 hours ago, Shtanley said: Yeah ones a street-rat The fact that Semenyo and Rodri would both bring different things to the side when used is very evidently far too rational a view for @Shtanley to comprehend here. O'Leary playing for a third of the season while Marinovic played one(?) time. Nope, LJ hates the academy players, someone else played once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 3 hours ago, Shtanley said: You can call my opinion an ‘agenda’ or a ‘false narrative’ all you want. LJ simply doesn’t trust young academy players, it’s a fact. Given the choice he’d rather: flog players until they run out of gas, (Pack last season playing 46 league games, Morrell playing 1). Or sign frees rather than giving them game time to improve (Marinovic over O’Leary and Rodri over Semenyo(even playing him when he knew Rodri was getting released!)). He’ll sometimes give young signings we've made time to grow and improve, Brownhill, COD, Eliasson, got seasons to improve/learn and Moore to a lesser extent. Where is the patience for academy players? Yea he never trusted Bryan or Reid, he never played kelly or vyner, he didn’t give morrel his debut or played youth in the cup (like almost all other clubs in the top 2 divisions), he never gave O’Leary a run in the side yea Johnson doesn’t gave them any time or ever play them........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtanley Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, Monkeh said: Yea he never trusted Bryan or Reid, he never played kelly or vyner, he didn’t give morrel his debut or played youth in the cup (like almost all other clubs in the top 2 divisions), he never gave O’Leary a run in the side yea Johnson doesn’t gave them any time or ever play them........ Vyner that played 8 league games over the course of three seasons? He played Kelly, arguably our greatest academy player of all time. Fair nuff, probably could’ve played him even more. Bryan already an established starter, good move to put Reid upfront and his pre season form made it a clear choice to play him. You saying Morrell featured the right amount last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Shtanley said: Vyner that played 8 league games over the course of three seasons? He played Kelly, arguably our greatest academy player of all time. Fair nuff, probably could’ve played him even more. Bryan already an established starter, good move to put Reid upfront and his pre season form made it a clear choice to play him. You saying Morrell featured the right amount last season? But you just told us johnson doesn’t give youth more importantly our academy players a chance ive listed a load off the top of my head proving you wrong, you can’t have it both ways and you can’t use it to beat johnson further the. He already deserves to be, not accepting the fact renders your argument invalid, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtanley Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Monkeh said: But you just told us johnson doesn’t give youth more importantly our academy players a chance ive listed a load off the top of my head proving you wrong, you can’t have it both ways and you can’t use it to beat johnson further the. He already deserves to be, not accepting the fact renders your argument invalid, Kelly the only academy player he’s brought into the team and given a chance to grow and improve. O’Leary he constantly slagged off and then dropped for a bloke who turned out to be even worse! Clearly we ain’t gonna be on the same page, you reckon LJ has a great record when it comes to bringing through academy players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dullmoan Tone Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Shtanley said: Kelly the only academy player he’s brought into the team and given a chance to grow and improve. O’Leary he constantly slagged off and then dropped for a bloke who turned out to be even worse! Clearly we ain’t gonna be on the same page, you reckon LJ has a great record when it comes to bringing through academy players? As an aside what's quite interesting is that most of us would have happily swapped Eddie Howe for LJ over the last few years and yet Lloyd Kelly has stalled since joining Bournemouth (doesn't; even seem to make the bench) so it's not just us that trust young players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said: As an aside what's quite interesting is that most of us would have happily swapped Eddie Howe for LJ over the last few years and yet Lloyd Kelly has stalled since joining Bournemouth (doesn't; even seem to make the bench) so it's not just us that trust young players. Kelly has been injured in fairness. https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/sport/18170425.it-long-time-coming---lloyd-kelly-hoping-kick-on-making-injury-return/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 23 minutes ago, Shtanley said: Kelly the only academy player he’s brought into the team and given a chance to grow and improve. O’Leary he constantly slagged off and then dropped for a bloke who turned out to be even worse! Clearly we ain’t gonna be on the same page, you reckon LJ has a great record when it comes to bringing through academy players? His record is better then every bar the trio who took over from pulis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 15 hours ago, Shtanley said: Semenyo sees himself as a LW fwiw, cutting inside. Our system(s) don’t have a position like that though. nice to know some people agree, would like but have none left. Pay up £5 you cheapskate!! Take it out the OSIB funds if necessary. Semenyo started LW v Leeds 4231 iirc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtanley Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Davefevs said: Pay up £5 you cheapskate!! Take it out the OSIB funds if necessary. Semenyo started LW v Leeds 4231 iirc I might have to... Flat 442 that game. I was so surprised he got a start even tho he was wicked vs Preston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, Shtanley said: I might have to... Flat 442 that game. I was so surprised he got a start even tho he was wicked vs Preston. Aye, you might be right...but pretty sure he was LW, because it was him that switched off for Ayling’s header??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtanley Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Aye, you might be right...but pretty sure he was LW, because it was him that switched off for Ayling’s header??? Yeah he was at LM, but in a flat 442! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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