Dr Balls Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 JET had the physique of a rugby forward, the feet of a dancer, and a shot like a cannon. Having met him one time, when he visited my work one Christmas with a few other players, including Bobby Reid and Joe Bryan, made you realise what a nice bloke he was and also what a physical presence he had. As someone of a similar size and frame, I can assure that short bursts of speed are far easier than running 12km every match. The reality is he had so much skill that against League 1 players he could literally walk through the opposition, then unleash an unstoppable shot. As a spectator, he gave me and many others far more entertainment than any other player that I can remember in over 40 years of supporting City. Even when we were rubbish under SO’D, he was genuinely exciting to watch. Plus as others have mentioned, he was still happy to play a more secondary role in our promotion season, and meant that when we had injuries and was played with Matt Smith on loan, our form didn’t dip one bit. God knows we could do with someone similar now, but even if we did, I am not sure that LJ would play him. The lack of playing time for Kasey Palmer suggests LJ values work rate far more than inspiration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 42 minutes ago, spudski said: As a few have implied on this thread, JETs genetics and build weren't condusive to a certain level of performance that was needed at Championship level. His natural skill and ability with a football at his feet was outstanding though. Regardless of practice and muscle memory, some people have it, over others that practice twice as much. However much they practice they will never have that genetic touch, feel, vision, awareness etc that some have. Interesting article here that's studied the best genetics for a footballer. Still doesn't take into account the brain and natural awareness and feel. https://fitnessgenes.com/blog/genetics-of-elite-footballers/ The genes mentioned in the article are present in the majority of the populace including the famous speed gene. Some races and regions of the world have higher ratios but it is hardly conducive evidence. In regards to natural ability the worlds largest Countries are not producing as many naturally skilled players as one nation (Brazil). Brazils success is not down to Brazilians possessing more natural skill its down to how they approach the game. The Brazilians success is down to the way they practice and a football culture that encourages high skill levels. If other nations replicated the Brazilians they too would see more naturally skilled players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfc01 Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, spudski said: You could have 11 players all practice the same skills the same amount of time. All of them will have a different level they can achieve. Down to genetics, build, brain etc. You will often find certain naturally unathletic people have naturally better touch, skill, timing and awareness than naturally athletic people. Gascoigne, LeTissier, Waddle, Hoddle, Tomlin, Trundle, Noble, JET to name a few come into those catagories. Imagine if they had that level of skill with a naturally athletic body, that with training and time, the level they would achieve. IF they had coaches that recognise innate natural talent and how to nurture and get the best out of it. Doesn't happen in this country imo - its why we don't produce world class players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 12 minutes ago, RedLionLad said: Would that happen to be the same Weimann (spelt correctly) who is currently our top scorer in the league this season? Weimann a good champ player v Jet a good league one player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLionLad Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, bcfc01 said: IF they had coaches that recognise innate natural talent and how to nurture and get the best out of it. Doesn't happen in this country imo - its why we don't produce world class players. I think there are several other reasons for that. English clubs stocking up on Foreign players is just one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLionLad Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, RedDave said: Weimann a good champ player v Jet a good league one player Jet scored 9 goals in 43 League One games back in 2014-15 Weimann has already scored 9 Championship goals this season in 28 games.....with 18 games of the season remaining. One clear winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Lions Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Spudski the point John Barnes made was saying he had to train xx everybody else because he wasn't athletic. it was all down to hard work and practice. You want to be a pro forget about girls going out practice practice practice we all have talent was his words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 32 minutes ago, RedLionLad said: Jet scored 9 goals in 43 League One games back in 2014-15 Weimann has already scored 9 Championship goals this season in 28 games.....with 18 games of the season remaining. One clear winner. Started 20 (28 subs), 12 goals, 8 assists that season. 1941 minutes, equivalent of circa 22 games. The comparison with Weimann (who I am a huge fan of) is not a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 34 minutes ago, RedLionLad said: Jet scored 9 goals in 43 League One games back in 2014-15 Weimann has already scored 9 Championship goals this season in 28 games.....with 18 games of the season remaining. One clear winner. Some sense at last (apart from my own of course!) 1 minute ago, Davefevs said: Started 20 (28 subs), 12 goals, 8 assists that season. 1941 minutes, equivalent of circa 22 games. The comparison with Weimann (who I am a huge fan of) is not a good one. JET couldn’t even get in team half the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, RedDave said: Some sense at last (apart from my own of course!) JET couldn’t even get in team half the time? I’m saying the comparison is poor, not judging any player one way or t’other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I’m saying the comparison is poor, not judging any player one way or t’other Think the fact he couldn’t get in the team most weeks says all we need to know ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 hour ago, RedDave said: JET flattered to deceive. Nobody really cared when he left as .... ....we had just been promoted. And were about to sign Dwight Gayle..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 minute ago, RedDave said: Think the fact he couldn’t get in the team most weeks says all we need to know ! Disagree. That was a stellar city team playing a system that wasn’t built with JET in mind. Matt Smith wasn’t first choice either. Carved out a decent career. Greg Cunningham too? Wouldve played 40+ in most other team in Lg1 that season, and some would’ve centred it around him. QPR thought enough to take him the summer. As I said earlier I think it became tougher to hulk his frame around as he got older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 7 hours ago, wayne allisons tongues said: Remember being at Shrewsbury and he received the ball from a throw in. He just started walking with the ball, remember myself and others standing there saying just run once in a while. He just did a shimmy and from 20 yds fires it into the net, never again have I accused a player of not running/trying. Pure magic from him. Exactly this. He didn't run even when taking a penalty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 59 minutes ago, Cowshed said: The genes mentioned in the article are present in the majority of the populace including the famous speed gene. Some races and regions of the world have higher ratios but it is hardly conducive evidence. In regards to natural ability the worlds largest Countries are not producing as many naturally skilled players as one nation (Brazil). Brazils success is not down to Brazilians possessing more natural skill its down to how they approach the game. The Brazilians success is down to the way they practice and a football culture that encourages high skill levels. If other nations replicated the Brazilians they too would see more naturally skilled players. Genetics that are conducive to football, combined with natural ability...as in awareness, touch, vision and hours of correct practice will develop great footballers. Regardless of nationality...certain body types reach a higher level performance level over others that have received the same training. With your theory...you make out everyone can reach the same levels if they had the same coaching. That is simply not true. Why do you think there are no great black swimmers? Why are black people more often than not great sprinters? It's not necessarily race...but they have heavier bone structure and the 'twitch muscle' that is often missing in other genetics. Football Clubs actually look and test for the twitch muscle....which allows explosive speed and jumping. Some have it genetically...others don't. You can't train that. 56 minutes ago, bcfc01 said: IF they had coaches that recognise innate natural talent and how to nurture and get the best out of it. Doesn't happen in this country imo - its why we don't produce world class players. As Cowshed implied...correct coaching works. But it only works to certain levels depending on the natural build of a person. Everyone is different. If Jet had the body of Massengo as an example, and the same coaching, training and practice he'd be a far better player all round and be playing Premiership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 25 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said: ....we had just been promoted. And were about to sign Dwight Gayle..... Did well at QPR.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 minute ago, RedDave said: Did well at QPR.... He was at Crystal Palace, Dave. That's a joke, Dave. Like me other post, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-mat Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 42 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Started 20 (28 subs), 12 goals, 8 assists that season. 1941 minutes, equivalent of circa 22 games. The comparison with Weimann (who I am a huge fan of) is not a good one. It wasn't a direct comparison, though. It was talking about the type of player. I also consider Weimann (sincerely apologise for the misspelling ) to be a decent player who has a role in the team. I'm terms of league games he had 10 starts and 9 goals. From c. 1100 minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 7 hours ago, Cowshed said: Its a body shape that does not suit football. The worst. Endomorphs can be suited to sprinting (its anaerobic activity) but frequently not suit endurance activities and post explosive movements have poor recovery times. An alternative view can be is that he did well and reached his ceiling. There is no football gene that leads to being naturally gifted. Its not a gift. Skill is created by practice and practice only. This player would have practiced more to gain his level of skill. He did not come out of the womb a skilful footballer. Your average human cant do fifty kick ups because they do not try to. True, but having coached 6 and 7 year olds, it’s amazing how natural it is to some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Genetics might help but the very best players such as Messi and Ronaldo who are nothing like a similar body type have insane spatial awareness and can see a “picture” around them that mere mortals can’t. That is related to BRAIN function . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 7 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said: Yep I’ve also thought this before. Weirdly Diedhiou also plays like a smaller player. I think a lean 11st 6ft” JET would be amazing. 11st? He’d be thin as a rake and certainly not have the strength he possessed. great watching that video again, what a player he was on his day. Also a blast from the past, completely forgot about Nyron Nosworthy playing for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLionLad Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: Started 20 (28 subs), 12 goals, 8 assists that season. 1941 minutes, equivalent of circa 22 games. The comparison with Weimann (who I am a huge fan of) is not a good one. Not so much a comparison as such. Just wanted to highlight Weimann’s contribution so far this season. He’s not really the headless chicken that some people seem to think he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, RedLionLad said: Not so much a comparison as such. Just wanted to highlight Weimann’s contribution so far this season. He’s not really the headless chicken that some people seem to think he is. Indeed he’s not. Thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 29 minutes ago, MarcusX said: 11st? He’d be thin as a rake and certainly not have the strength he possessed. great watching that video again, what a player he was on his day. Also a blast from the past, completely forgot about Nyron Nosworthy playing for us Yep, he'd be more like an Adomah or Bolasie in that theoretical. Although his strength was useful JET didn't use it as much as he could have, he relied on pure ball skill for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 hour ago, spudski said: Genetics that are conducive to football, combined with natural ability...as in awareness, touch, vision and hours of correct practice will develop great footballers. Regardless of nationality...certain body types reach a higher level performance level over others that have received the same training. With your theory...you make out everyone can reach the same levels if they had the same coaching. That is simply not true. Why do you think there are no great black swimmers? Why are black people more often than not great sprinters? It's not necessarily race...but they have heavier bone structure and the 'twitch muscle' that is often missing in other genetics. Football Clubs actually look and test for the twitch muscle....which allows explosive speed and jumping. Some have it genetically...others don't. You can't train that. As Cowshed implied...correct coaching works. But it only works to certain levels depending on the natural build of a person. Everyone is different. If Jet had the body of Massengo as an example, and the same coaching, training and practice he'd be a far better player all round and be playing Premiership. There is conflation there between skill and athletic ability. I was referring to skill as a natural ability. Skill is not genetic. There is no football skill gene. Yes certain body shapes will athletically limit potential but that does not necessarily limit football skill acquisition. With your theory .. It is not mine and I have not suggested everybody will reach the same level. I have made a point about skill. You noted that individuals who are not blessed athletically by nature can be highly skilful .. Yes I wholly agree. The creation of skill is heavily driven by mindset. A growth mindset does not accept that skill is set at birth. Being a less than perfect specimen psychologically is a driver e.g. I will have to work even harder to achieve. Away from skill why are black people more often than not great sprinters? Its is not as simple as that. The great sprinters are limited to narrow geographical areas but their genetics are widespread. The speed gene is not shared by all black people and is present in other races. Africa should be producing Olympic 100 metre champions but isn't if it was simple as black people = fast. In regards to swimming .. I don't find swimming interesting enough to remember an answer. Football clubs actually … They may also want to check the achilles tendon as longer length more speed .. Or maybe not. 1 hour ago, 054123 said: True, but having coached 6 and 7 year olds, it’s amazing how natural it is to some. What I found is that most kids that age find it hard to focus. Stick to fun games. Then you have the child who is the opposite any available ball, any time .. Its that mindset. 2 hours ago, Numero Uno said: Genetics might help but the very best players such as Messi and Ronaldo who are nothing like a similar body type have insane spatial awareness and can see a “picture” around them that mere mortals can’t. That is related to BRAIN function . Developed brain function leading to advanced spatial awareness and pattern recognition. And it comes from intense deliberate repetitive practice over years. Without that practice they would be like the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexukhc Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 JET was insane in his first year for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfc01 Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 Anyway; https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/former-arsenal-bristol-city-forward-3766072 JET decided not to play.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Lions Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 15 hours ago, Cowshed said: Skill is not genetic. There is no football skill gene. If there was the Russians and Chinese would be breeding squads by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.G.Red Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 I always felt that at the end we didn’t really appreciate what JET had done when we were plagued with injury. Thought he was unceremoniously dumped to the bench when other players became fit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.G.Red Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 I know people will say we have moved on, but I’d love to see him back at the Gate. Still only 29 (Jamie Vardy is 32) would really lift the crowd, and he’s got his own song Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.