Jump to content

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums by signing in or creating an account.

  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Full access to all forums (not all viewable as guest)
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members.
  • Support OTIB with a premium membership

fanjita

Man Utd charged with failing to control their players

Recommended Posts

Absolutely correct too in my opinion, the way that their players surrounded the referee ( in particular De Gea ) following the eventuality disallowed goal was appalling, no respect at all for the referee.

How many times have I heard about how we can learn from rugby, this was a classic case, never would you see that on a rugby field.

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why don’t refs book them all, swearing at a ref should be an instant yellow. You see it all the time why haven’t they fixed it. 

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Shtanley said:

Why don’t refs book them all, swearing at a ref should be an instant yellow. You see it all the time why haven’t they fixed it. 

You can even use VAR to make sure all of them get booked!

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, fanjita said:

Absolutely correct too in my opinion, the way that their players surrounded the referee ( in particular De Gea ) following the eventuality disallowed goal was appalling, no respect at all for the referee.

How many times have I heard about how we can learn from rugby, this was a classic case, never would you see that on a rugby field.

 

Totally agree . Reminded me of Barcelona 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Prinny said:

You can even use VAR to make sure all of them get booked!

 

Be there for hours. Takes them 3 minutes to sort a tight offside decision. ;)

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Reaction was over the top, but goal was disallowed and all bookings arguing over it stood.

Why should bookings stand if the goal was disallowed.

Because feeling justified is no excuse to manhandle and intimidate officials so that would send completely the wrong message. 

  • Like 11
  • Thanks 1
  • Flames 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, fanjita said:

Absolutely correct too in my opinion, the way that their players surrounded the referee ( in particular De Gea ) following the eventuality disallowed goal was appalling, no respect at all for the referee.

How many times have I heard about how we can learn from rugby, this was a classic case, never would you see that on a rugby field.

 

You should post that here,

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=anbp55a1kolph0g892e27odbdc&board=2.0

At the end of the day, Liverpool players would have done exactly the same. Dont kid yourself that they wouldnt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Reaction was over the top, but goal was disallowed and all bookings arguing over it stood.

Why should bookings stand if the goal was disallowed.

The goal should have stood in any case.  All Van Dijk did was jump to head the ball.

I still think the rugby way is right - nobody is allowed to address the ref but the captain.

  • Like 8
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, LegalEagle said:

Because feeling justified is no excuse to manhandle and intimidate officials so that would send completely the wrong message. 

I agree, but if ref was proved wrong as goal was overruled you could say Man Utd were justified in there complaints and bookings shouldn’t stand.

Just seems wrong that you could be sent off for a 2nd booking over something that would be reversed.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not as thought Man U have previous for this........

1633706834_manu.jpg.2d06a2814886332a36ce368adfa7a49d.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Nibor said:

The goal should have stood in any case.  All Van Dijk did was jump to head the ball.

I still think the rugby way is right - nobody is allowed to address the ref but the captain.

Most probably should of but VAR said it was a foul so ref was wrong. 
Personally wasn’t clear and obvious and if you see some of the goals given, Everton v Man Utd not sure how it was disallowed.

This is where VAR is a problem someone at Stockley Park thinks it’s a foul and that’s it. Ref should of looked at pitch side  monitor and made his own decision, to easy as a ref to hand the blame to others.

When goals are given when handball in build up, Van Dijk v Wolves,  think was wolves against Southampton Saturday and some not given Rice West Ham. You wonder what they think at Stockley Park and why don’t they apply same rules to everyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Nibor said:

The goal should have stood in any case.  All Van Dijk did was jump to head the ball.

I still think the rugby way is right - nobody is allowed to address the ref but the captain.

Difference with rugby is the captain will always be near to the ref because of the nature of the game. Where’s if a captain is the keeper he can’t be near the ref all 90 minutes. Just make it so you cannot shout or swear at a ref or you’re instantly booked, simple! 
 

I remember reading that allegedly production companies have asked the PL about mic’ing up referees during the game but the league have said no as they’re worried about the levels of abuse. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Most probably should of but VAR said it was a foul so ref was wrong. 
Personally wasn’t clear and obvious and if you see some of the goals given, Everton v Man Utd not sure how it was disallowed.

This is where VAR is a problem someone at Stockley Park thinks it’s a foul and that’s it. Ref should of looked at pitch side  monitor and made his own decision, to easy as a ref to hand the blame to others.

When goals are given when handball in build up, Van Dijk v Wolves,  think was wolves against Southampton Saturday and some not given Rice West Ham. You wonder what they think at Stockley Park and why don’t they apply same rules to everyone.

I agree it would be better if the ref used the screen, should always be the on the field ref's final decision.  I think VAR should only intervene when there's a serious off the ball incident the ref completely missed, otherwise it should be there for them to consult only.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

Difference with rugby is the captain will always be near to the ref because of the nature of the game. Where’s if a captain is the keeper he can’t be near the ref all 90 minutes. Just make it so you cannot shout or swear at a ref or you’re instantly booked, simple! 
 

I remember reading that allegedly production companies have asked the PL about mic’ing up referees during the game but the league have said no as they’re worried about the levels of abuse. 

This doesn't really matter because players have no need to talk to the ref.  I'm not suggesting the ref can't talk to the players.  I'd just book anybody who addresses the ref directly and isn't the captain.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Nibor said:

This doesn't really matter because players have no need to talk to the ref.  I'm not suggesting the ref can't talk to the players.  I'd just book anybody who addresses the ref directly and isn't the captain.

Gotcha. Just could be a tad awkward if ref needs to have a word but is on opposite end of the pitch to the captain. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

Why don’t refs book them all, swearing at a ref should be an instant yellow. You see it all the time why haven’t they fixed it. 

No need for that. They all wear ‘Respect’ patches on their sleeves. Surely that’s enough 🙂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

Not as though Liverpool have previous for this either......

 

article-2070381-0F10F0CD00000578-33_634x422.jpg

23EBB56C00000578-2867530-image-a-75_1418160329537.jpg

Liverpool-players-get-in-refs-face-vs-Fulham.jpg

Bellamy in the middle of it, of course.

Wanchor.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It needs a referee with a backbone to apply the laws of the game.  If a player approaches him with aggression that's dissent.  Book him.  If you end up with 3 players sent off then that's not the referees fault and they'll soon bloody learn.  The same with time wasting.  Time wasting is time wasting.  Doesn't matter if it's in the 94th minute or the 4th minute.  Book someone for it early and send a message out.  Unfortunately referees don't do that.  You'd soon see crap like this stop when teams start losing players and money through fines etc.

  • Like 2
  • Flames 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

Difference with rugby is the captain will always be near to the ref because of the nature of the game. Where’s if a captain is the keeper he can’t be near the ref all 90 minutes. Just make it so you cannot shout or swear at a ref or you’re instantly booked, simple! 
 

I remember reading that allegedly production companies have asked the PL about mic’ing up referees during the game but the league have said no as they’re worried about the levels of abuse. 

Even more reason to mic them up! I'm sure the embarrassment to the club would be worth it.

  • Flames 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

I agree, but if ref was proved wrong as goal was overruled you could say Man Utd were justified in there complaints and bookings shouldn’t stand.

Just seems wrong that you could be sent off for a 2nd booking over something that would be reversed.

 

They did not get booked for contesting the goal, they got booked for the way they contested the goal. Regardless of the context and whether they were proven right or wrong, they still surrounded the ref and acted in the way that they did.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Nibor said:

The goal should have stood in any case.  All Van Dijk did was jump to head the ball.

I still think the rugby way is right - nobody is allowed to address the ref but the captain.

I agree with the first part, but players being allowed to address the ref is important - it's about the way you ask that isn't punished enough if you ask me. You should be able to ask specifically why a foul has been given against you, but when players take it over the top like De Gea did screaming at the ref, i'd like to see an alteration to the dissent rules that make it a straight red.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

Difference with rugby is the captain will always be near to the ref because of the nature of the game. Where’s if a captain is the keeper he can’t be near the ref all 90 minutes. Just make it so you cannot shout or swear at a ref or you’re instantly booked, simple! 
 

I remember reading that allegedly production companies have asked the PL about mic’ing up referees during the game but the league have said no as they’re worried about the levels of abuse. 

Back to Rugby but couldn't you borrow the citation model that they have. I believe every game is reviewed and post-math cards can be handed out. Perhaps combine it with a version of the demerit system that Cricket uses. Jos Buttler (the little Wedmore god) recently caught calling Philander a "ducking bobhead" on mic. He was given a demerit point post-match for it rather than an in-match sanction. If he collects four demerits over a certain period (iirc two years on a rolling basis) then he gets a one match ban (iirc). takes the pressure of the officials to come up with a quick sanction during the game, but still has the potential to punish repeat offenders.

So you could have each game reviewed post-match. Anything like swearing at a ref or opposition coaches is punished with a demerit point. 3 demerits in a season is a 1 match ban, the next 3 is a 2-match ban etc. 

Edited by ExiledAjax

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

You should be able to ask specifically why a foul has been given against you

Why?

Won't make any difference, accept it and move on.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Shtanley said:

Why don’t refs book them all, swearing at a ref should be an instant yellow. You see it all the time why haven’t they fixed it. 

In the local leagues on saturdays now if you swear at the ref he gives you a yellow and you have a 10 min sin bin 

maybe fa should look at bringimg it up the levels

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Coxy27 said:

Why?

Won't make any difference, accept it and move on.

Exactly.

I was always told 'the referee's decision is final' and there's certainly no need for him to explain it.

Like it or lump it and get on with the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ZiderEyed said:

I agree with the first part, but players being allowed to address the ref is important - it's about the way you ask that isn't punished enough if you ask me. You should be able to ask specifically why a foul has been given against you, but when players take it over the top like De Gea did screaming at the ref, i'd like to see an alteration to the dissent rules that make it a straight red.

It really isn't though.  You can ask the ref after the game, it's not going to change anything during it.  I'd agree with you on the red card - perhaps there should be some stronger form of offence like "raging dissent" or "being a poor man's roy keane".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Steve Watts said:

If a player approaches him with aggression that's dissent.

I agree, there is absolutely no need for emotion in competitive sport and if the referee gets an easy decision completely wrong then you should just accept it and carry on as if nothing has happened.

This should also apply to the supporters who are just merely watching the game.

Edited by jj77

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

I agree, but if ref was proved wrong as goal was overruled you could say Man Utd were justified in there complaints and bookings shouldn’t stand.

Just seems wrong that you could be sent off for a 2nd booking over something that would be reversed.

 

The ref wasn’t proved wrong at all. VAR ****** up yet again!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

The ref wasn’t proved wrong at all. VAR ****** up yet again!!!

It was clearly a goal. Ref had a good view and didn't give the foul. De Gea was weak.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

I agree, but if ref was proved wrong as goal was overruled you could say Man Utd were justified in there complaints and bookings shouldn’t stand.

Just seems wrong that you could be sent off for a 2nd booking over something that would be reversed.

 

If you are so poor at controlling your emotions that you think it’s ok to bully and manhandle the ref when he does make a genuine error then you deserve to walk anyway. De Gea was pointing right in the refs face and tbh if the ref had knocked him out I would have laughed.....

I’d put Tyson Fury in charge of their next game. He’d get all the decisions wrong but let’s see how these “hard men” react then!!

2 minutes ago, Super said:

It was clearly a goal. Ref had a good view and didn't give the foul. De Gea was weak.

I know, the VAR ref should be hauled over the coals for overturning that!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Shtanley said:

Why don’t refs book them all, swearing at a ref should be an instant yellow. You see it all the time why haven’t they fixed it. 

I always find it amazing how little people know about the rules. I find it more amazing how poorly they are applied by officials...

http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct

Foul and abusive language is a red card offense...If the FA told referees to apply it properly then a lot of things would get stamped out in the professional game. 

I know there are a few ex refs on here and that support City one (or two) of which did an FA Cup final. I’d be interested to know how they handled it! For my tuppence I walked in the dressing rooms pre match and stated various things they needed to know. One of which, if I may paraphrase myself. Was I don’t care if you swear at each other but if you swear or gesticulate at me You Are Off! No matter what the circumstances...

Edited by REDOXO
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, jj77 said:

I agree, there is absolutely no need for emotion in competitive sport and if the referee gets an easy decision completely wrong then you should just accept it and carry on as if nothing has happened.

This should also apply to the supporters who are just merely watching the game.

There’s emotion in terms of verbals (that’s effing crap etc.) and then there’s getting right in the refs grille. No excuse for that whatsoever.

The players manage it in rugby.....is the suggestion that rugby isn’t a competitive sport?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Highguy said:

In the local leagues on saturdays now if you swear at the ref he gives you a yellow and you have a 10 min sin bin 

maybe fa should look at bringimg it up the levels

Saw that down at Ashton and Backwell the other week and tbh the player concerned got a load of abuse........from his teammates!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

The ref wasn’t proved wrong at all. VAR ****** up yet again!!!

This is the problem, ref goes to monitor looks at it. Says it’s a goal end of story. Instead you get players booked for complaining it’s a foul, ref decides let VAR make decision and I can say not my fault it’s VAR fault. But end of the day VAR made decision ref accepted it so he has decided he got it wrong.

Watched a few games in Germany and all the refs at games I’ve been to never use VAR HQ, go straight to monitor and decide themselves no arguments there decision.

I think it is a perfectly good goal just think the rule that you can get booked contesting a VAR decision and it gets overturned and booking stands is stupid. 
 

Sin bin works a treat here in Manchester,  my son works for a local non league team and abuse to refs has virtually stopped. Any abuse they are in the bin, but not all refs are strong enough to do it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

This is the problem, ref goes to monitor looks at it. Says it’s a goal end of story. Instead you get players booked for complaining it’s a foul, ref decides let VAR make decision and I can say not my fault it’s VAR fault. But end of the day VAR made decision ref accepted it so he has decided he got it wrong.

Watched a few games in Germany and all the refs at games I’ve been to never use VAR HQ, go straight to monitor and decide themselves no arguments there decision.

I think it is a perfectly good goal just think the rule that you can get booked contesting a VAR decision and it gets overturned and booking stands is stupid. 
 

Sin bin works a treat here in Manchester,  my son works for a local non league team and abuse to refs has virtually stopped. Any abuse they are in the bin, but not all refs are strong enough to do it.

The sin bin is such an easy answer to me. You aren’t sending anyone off with a three match ban and if you land in the bin for gobbing off and your team concedes twice in that 10 minute period you have a lot of explaining to do. Far more effective than a booking and even a sending off where you might still concede the goals but the team and management think they’ve been hard done by and blame the ref instead!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, fanjita said:

Absolutely correct too in my opinion, the way that their players surrounded the referee ( in particular De Gea ) following the eventuality disallowed goal was appalling, no respect at all for the referee.

How many times have I heard about how we can learn from rugby, this was a classic case, never would you see that on a rugby field.

 

In fairness its quite rare that you see that sort of behaviour anymore.. I’d say its been fairly stamped out of the English game. Var is the real issue for me.. yet another shocking decision.. the sooner its banned the better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, bris red said:

In fairness its quite rare that you see that sort of behaviour anymore.. I’d say its been fairly stamped out of the English game. Var is the real issue for me.. yet another shocking decision.. the sooner its banned the better.

VAR,just someone else’s opinion as opposed to the refs,in a lot of cases.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Saw that down at Ashton and Backwell the other week and tbh the player concerned got a load of abuse........from his teammates!!!

Was brought in this season think its because local games struggle getting refs constantly due to abuse but it does work 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Reaction was over the top, but goal was disallowed and all bookings arguing over it stood.

Why should bookings stand if the goal was disallowed.

Can't tell if serious? 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Steve Watts said:

It needs a referee with a backbone to apply the laws of the game.  If a player approaches him with aggression that's dissent.  Book him.  If you end up with 3 players sent off then that's not the referees fault and they'll soon bloody learn.  The same with time wasting.  Time wasting is time wasting.  Doesn't matter if it's in the 94th minute or the 4th minute.  Book someone for it early and send a message out.  Unfortunately referees don't do that.  You'd soon see crap like this stop when teams start losing players and money through fines etc.

I don't think they want to sort any of it out. They should ban players retrospectively for blatant diving/cheating - regardless if the ref dealt with it at the time or not. Instant 3 game ban and do it again in the same season and it doubles to 6 (with massive fines that go to grass roots football and not back to the club).

Time wasting should be totted up, and if the team who has been wasting do go behind they shouldn't get given any of the time they wasted at the end of the game - a bit harder to implement, but the times I have seen a keeper wasting time, or players at free kick/throw ins early in the game when 1-0 up wasting time is ridiculous. Why should they get it all back at the end if they are finding themselves chasing the game?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Taking away from the topic of the united players behaviour, the decision to award the foul was 100% spot on.

Van dyke makes contact with de gea after de gea has got hold of the ball, it may have been tight but he did.

The rules of the game state: 

[a] goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball when:

  • the ball is between the hands or between the hand and any surface (e.g. ground, own body) or by touching it with any part of the hands or arms except if the ball rebounds accidentally from the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save.

  • [a] goalkeeper cannot be challenged by an opponent when in control of the ball with the hands.

It may seem a soft foul, but it was a foul.

De Gea didn't drop the ball onto van dyke, he was challenged by van dyke and van dyke made contact with de gea whilst the ball was between his hands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, kit said:

Taking away from the topic of the united players behaviour, the decision to award the foul was 100% spot on.

Van dyke makes contact with de gea after de gea has got hold of the ball, it may have been tight but he did.

The rules of the game state: 

[a] goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball when:

  • the ball is between the hands or between the hand and any surface (e.g. ground, own body) or by touching it with any part of the hands or arms except if the ball rebounds accidentally from the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save.

  • [a] goalkeeper cannot be challenged by an opponent when in control of the ball with the hands.

It may seem a soft foul, but it was a foul.

De Gea didn't drop the ball onto van dyke, he was challenged by van dyke and van dyke made contact with de gea whilst the ball was between his hands.

The ball slipped through his hands, so he never had control

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, kit said:

Taking away from the topic of the united players behaviour, the decision to award the foul was 100% spot on.

Van dyke makes contact with de gea after de gea has got hold of the ball, it may have been tight but he did.

The rules of the game state: 

[a] goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball when:

  • the ball is between the hands or between the hand and any surface (e.g. ground, own body) or by touching it with any part of the hands or arms except if the ball rebounds accidentally from the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save.

  • [a] goalkeeper cannot be challenged by an opponent when in control of the ball with the hands.

It may seem a soft foul, but it was a foul.

De Gea didn't drop the ball onto van dyke, he was challenged by van dyke and van dyke made contact with de gea whilst the ball was between his hands.

You've misinterpreted that.  It means you can't make a challenge after the keeper has it under control, not that you can't make a challenge before the keeper has it under control which is what Van Dijk did.  He'd jumped for it well ahead of that De Gea's poor attempt to take it.  The rule is there to stop an opponent trying to kick it out of the keeper's hands after a save or as they kick it out.   Besides, the keeper never actually got it under control, he touched it at the same time as it hit Van Dijk's head.   The decision was completely wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...