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Robin Wood

Poor league

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3 minutes ago, Robin Wood said:

I think this is the poorest the championship has been since we were promoted not a real classy side this season 

Good, just as well.

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47 minutes ago, Robin Wood said:

I think this is the poorest the championship has been since we were promoted not a real classy side this season 

The standard is shocking with the exception of Brentford 

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55 minutes ago, Robin Wood said:

I think this is the poorest the championship has been since we were promoted not a real classy side this season 

It's amazing how this post is made every year.  It seems the teams coming down, and the teams coming up, are always worse than those that leave....

 

Give it 5 more years, and the Championship will be at a Gas standard.

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4 minutes ago, Chivs said:

It's amazing how this post is made every year.  It seems the teams coming down, and the teams coming up, are always worse than those that leave....

 

Give it 5 more years, and the Championship will be at a Gas standard.

I was just going to say the same thing, every single season there is a thread saying it is the worst standard ever!!! Yet we know every season more money is spent and more internationals arrive. The real reason is some posters can't stand to see that other teams go on poor runs also and that Lee Johnson isn't the worse manager in the world after all. It is arguably the most competitive league in the world, where there is no such thing as an easy game. As Barnsley showed by being in the bottom 3 when they arrived to play us despite only losing one of their last seven.

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I think the standard is high enough but it’s just massively competitive. Because so many of the teams are evenly matched,  they often end up cancelling each other out. 

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15 minutes ago, Kibs said:

I think the standard is high enough but it’s just massively competitive. Because so many of the teams are evenly matched,  they often end up cancelling each other out. 

You honestly think the standard is high enough when despite our woeful performances we sit 1 point out of the play-offs? 

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It's a quality league imo.

Leeds look fantastic, yet they're now losing games. WBA, Fulham, Brentford all look fantastic too but no one can run away with it because it's such a tough league.

I can't really think of any other seasons it has been of better quality than this season.

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Saying the league is poor because 1 or 2 teams aren't running away with it doesn't make sense. Surely that would mean the standard was weak if a few teams were smashing everyone every week.

The fact that the results are so hard to predict week in week out means it must be a tough league. 

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It is a considerably weaker league than last season. With the teams going in and out of it, we knew it was going to be at the end of last season.

With the squad that we have, we should be doing better. Yet again luck shines on our head coach, because we have been diabolical and yet we are still "one point off the play-offs".

Which I would remind you all that we never win. 

Cue abuse...

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Some people, like the OP, appear to be under the impression that the lack of 1 or 2 exceptional teams, means the division is “poor”.

I actually think the opposite - there are more good teams in the division than I can remember..!

Part of the reason that nobody is running away with it, is because it’s so competitive, not the opposite..!

In fact, there isn’t really a “whipping boy” team in the division, which is why so many results seem to surprise people, based on league position, when, in truth, there just aren’t any below standard teams at this level, this season. 

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Most of the teams in the top 10 have gone through runs of games being very good and very poor this season. There is a lot of inconsistency. I believe that is due to the hard, gruelling nature of the league and the frequency of games. 

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5 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

Some people, like the OP, appear to be under the impression that the lack of 1 or 2 exceptional teams, means the division is “poor”.

I actually think the opposite - there are more good teams in the division than I can remember..!

Part of the reason that nobody is running away with it, is because it’s so competitive, not the opposite..!

In fact, there isn’t really a “whipping boy” team in the division, which is why so many results seem to surprise people, based on league position, when, in truth, there just aren’t any below standard teams at this level, this season. 

This - quality of player in this league is highest it’s ever been. 

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Competitive does not equal good or bad. It’s more competitive this season. I think it’s about the same level as last year. 

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Never understand how a whole league can be poor, it is what it is,  competitive and unpredictable with a lot of teams at a similar standard, maybe due to FFP. Interested to know thoughts of OP and some others on the Premier League where its already effectively been won by just after Christmas. Does that make everyone else ‘poor’.

Could it just be that some think as we are so obviously rubbish with a hopeless coach yet stand a point off the play offs, therefore everyone else must be poor as well.......  (insert face palm here!)

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I think what has happened is that we have steadily clawed our way up this division, building our strength gradually and accumulating a competitive squad through some hit and miss trading, and we now look at the teams from 4th to 14th and think: they're not all that, or we don’t suffer too much by comparison to them. Not now.

When we arrived in the Championship in 2015, and again the following season, the standard of the top half clubs looked to be daunting, dauntingly beyond our reach.

But, we survived four years ago, we improved bit by bit, and now we are in the mix, at least for finishing 6th.

And so, it is tempting to think: the standard is poor (because we are keeping pace with most of the frontrunners). It must be, if we are in with a chance, again, while performances have been pretty ordinary (thing is, for Wigan away recently, that was us four years ago: nothing between the teams only one had a bit of quality up front to actually score).

As others have said, there is not much between the top half clubs below the top two. Much of a muchness. It's all up for grabs.

Small margins will come into play. Luck with injuries too. And as we head toward the final third of the season, the steady hand, experience and been-there-and-done-it steely eyed assurance of the respective head coaches/managers.

I think some are upset because in December we beat third placed Fulham at their place, and the second half of the season looked improbably exciting and full of possibility. Finally, this time, surely we are going to .... etc, etc.

Now, we have fallen away, and it looks to many more like a repeat of the last two seasons, where we get into a great position, then fall away when the heat is on.

There are signs and reasons to remain hopeful and optimistic, or fearful and a bit gloomy. Or all four, even.

 

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It’s the ‘Unpredictable League’ as all teams are winning and losing all over the place. Some teams in the bottom half win four on the spin, the top two currently have relegation form and we are seeing plenty of draws. Bottom club Stoke beating top club WBA last week didn’t seem to be a such a shock.

The Premier League (in comparison) is nowhere near as interesting/frustrating/unpredictable/exciting as the Championship.

 

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You could say the same about the Premier League - Sheff Utd for example are 3 points from 5th or 14th.

I reckon the overall standard of both leagues have improved in that there are more games when any team beats anyone - teams averages are similar.

Thank goodness we no longer have a time when you could quite reliably predict the top 4.

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11 hours ago, Robin Wood said:

I think this is the poorest the championship has been since we were promoted not a real classy side this season 

That’s good isn’t it?

The Championship is far more competitive and unpredictable when there isn’t one or two clubs dominating the league and that makes the whole campaign far more interesting for us fans,

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10 hours ago, Galway Red said:

You honestly think the standard is high enough when despite our woeful performances we sit 1 point out of the play-offs? 

I'm not talking about our performances. And countless "ugly" teams have been successful over the years. So just because we are 1 point off the play-offs playing the football we have doesn't automatically equate to a poor standard of football.

I think people have become too accustomed to seeing the type of football played by Barcelona, Liverpool, Man City et al on the TV/Internet and expectations get higher by the season.

Edited by Kibs

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8 hours ago, Superjack said:

It is a considerably weaker league than last season. With the teams going in and out of it, we knew it was going to be at the end of last season.

With the squad that we have, we should be doing better. Yet again luck shines on our head coach, because we have been diabolical and yet we are still "one point off the play-offs".

Which I would remind you all that we never win. 

Cue abuse...

As Napoleon once said, "I'd rather have a lucky head coach,....".  Although I expect it is more the Gary Player approach, in that the harder Lee Johnson practices....

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its not a poor league,  what it is, however is the most competitive league in Europe if not the world

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11 hours ago, Galway Red said:

You honestly think the standard is high enough when despite our woeful performances we sit 1 point out of the play-offs? 

It can be expected the team to win the league at this point will amass 90+ points, the team that will finish second will be around ninety and seventy plus points will be needed to reach the plays offs. That indicates the league at the top isn't weak. 

11 hours ago, Galway Red said:

The standard is shocking with the exception of Brentford 

How do quantify standard?

Brentford make lots of passes, have a high passing accuracy and have a lot more possession than the opposition. So do Leeds, WBA and Fulham. Leeds and Fulham keep the ball more than Brentford. 

 

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Luton have already lost 19 games and they're only 7 points from safety! Fulham have already lost 8 and are only 4/5 points from top?! I'm really not sure what to make of it all?

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45 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

It can be expected the team to win the league at this point will amass 90+ points, the team that will finish second will be around ninety and seventy plus points will be needed to reach the plays offs. That indicates the league at the top isn't weak. 

How do quantify standard?

Brentford make lots of passes, have a high passing accuracy and have a lot more possession than the opposition. So do Leeds, WBA and Fulham. Leeds and Fulham keep the ball more than Brentford. 

 

It:s not a science, i' m going on what I've witnessed this season compared to other seasons, just an opinion at the end of the day 

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1 minute ago, Galway Red said:

It:s not a science, i' m going on what I've witnessed this season compared to other seasons, just an opinion at the end of the day 

so how many championship games this season  have you watched? 200? 100?, or have you just watched city who play dire football which in turn is clouding your judgement

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It maybe a bit weaker but I don't see it being wildly so.

Consider: Reading have Joao, Puscas, plus varied European and UK good additions- Rafael, Morrison, Pele- all experienced pros from a decent level- Serie A, Championship, Ligue 1. Surely questions about FFP??

Blackburn Johnson, Holtby- this added to an already decent squad, Adarbioyo, Cunningham, to name 3.

WBA have lost some key players, especially up front hut have strengthened significantly on the managerial front.

Stoke have a real decent squad on paper, full of experience and from decent levels- look at them??

Don't think there is much wrong with Fulham's squad, at all- just look through it! It's maybe weaker in one or both full back areas and that's a key position but their depth is fantastic. Look at it set against 2 years ago, the one that surged with a half-season unbeaten run, taking all comers or nearly all comers.

Brentford are better than last season IMO- more balance. Imagine if they had Maupay too?? Better though.

Cardiff's squad has a lot of depth and quality on paper- think they could play better football too, especially had they kept Cunningham, Reid.

It's weaker overall but this is overstated IMO...these are just a few examples.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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13 hours ago, Robin Wood said:

I think this is the poorest the championship has been since we were promoted not a real classy side this season 

Totally disagree as the championship is a vert tough league and probably up there in competition wise in the world to get promoted out off. 

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1 minute ago, Galway Red said:

It:s not a science, i' m going on what I've witnessed this season compared to other seasons, just an opinion at the end of the day 

You have used a standard to judge the league - Brentford. Teams above Brentford are using similar means to outperform them.

 

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17 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

so how many championship games this season  have you watched? 200? 100?, or have you just watched city who play dire football which in turn is clouding your judgement

Of course I haven't watch 200 games, as you say, we have played dire football, been outplayed by all 3 teams currently in the bottom three yet we still sit 1 point outside the play-offs, my judgement is certainly not clouded it is there before our very eyes

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I think the OP is right.

The gulf between Premier and Championship grows ever wider and there isn't a single Championship side this year who'd remotely look to have the ability to survive promotion, irrespective of how much money they threw at it.

Our league position despite the quality (rather lack of) we've delivered, shows it isn't that great. Are we really that better a side than brought us out of the 3rd tier? I'm not so sure we are, several tens of millions on, that is. Several of that side ply their trade at this level or higher, our best players have gone for significant sums to Premier money only to be found signally lacking. It's as though The Premier now consume the best of The Championship to prevent them being used elsewhere, to hold them as 3rd string options in case of catastrophic injury plagues, else they're held to tick the correct FA boxes in terms of supposed player development of our national game.

Premier players who drop down to our level tend to be end of career also-rans or those who finally proved they weren't up to scratch despite the promise of youth. As ever, we're exemplar at picking up both ends of the spectrum. The Bristol City pre-retirement village is as strongly occupied as ever.

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13 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

I think the OP is right.

The gulf between Premier and Championship grows ever wider and there isn't a single Championship side this year who'd remotely look to have the ability to survive promotion, irrespective of how much money they threw at it.

Our league position despite the quality (rather lack of) we've delivered, shows it isn't that great. Are we really that better a side than brought us out of the 3rd tier? I'm not so sure we are, several tens of millions on, that is. Several of that side ply their trade at this level or higher, our best players have gone for significant sums to Premier money only to be found signally lacking. It's as though The Premier now consume the best of The Championship to prevent them being used elsewhere, to hold them as 3rd string options in case of catastrophic injury plagues, else they're held to tick the correct FA boxes in terms of supposed player development of our national game.

Premier players who drop down to our level tend to be end of career also-rans or those who finally proved they weren't up to scratch despite the promise of youth. As ever, we're exemplar at picking up both ends of the spectrum. The Bristol City pre-retirement village is as strongly occupied as ever.

You say that but every season the teams that go up don’t automatically come back down now,

look at Brighton Bournemouth Sheffield United,

I say the gap is smaller between the prem (outside the top 5) and the championship 

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24 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

I think the OP is right.

The gulf between Premier and Championship grows ever wider and there isn't a single Championship side this year who'd remotely look to have the ability to survive promotion, irrespective of how much money they threw at it.

Our league position despite the quality (rather lack of) we've delivered, shows it isn't that great. Are we really that better a side than brought us out of the 3rd tier? I'm not so sure we are, several tens of millions on, that is. Several of that side ply their trade at this level or higher, our best players have gone for significant sums to Premier money only to be found signally lacking. It's as though The Premier now consume the best of The Championship to prevent them being used elsewhere, to hold them as 3rd string options in case of catastrophic injury plagues, else they're held to tick the correct FA boxes in terms of supposed player development of our national game.

Premier players who drop down to our level tend to be end of career also-rans or those who finally proved they weren't up to scratch despite the promise of youth. As ever, we're exemplar at picking up both ends of the spectrum. The Bristol City pre-retirement village is as strongly occupied as ever.

100% Disagree, we played Arsenal off the park in the first half. A decent striker ONLY and we’d be 3-0 up.

ALL teams bar the Top 2 in the PL are there to be got at, if anything I think the standard of the PL has dropped and the Championship has more strength in depth than ever before.

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3 hours ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

I think what has happened is that we have steadily clawed our way up this division, building our strength gradually and accumulating a competitive squad through some hit and miss trading, and we now look at the teams from 4th to 14th and think: they're not all that, or we don’t suffer too much by comparison to them. Not now.

When we arrived in the Championship in 2015, and again the following season, the standard of the top half clubs looked to be daunting, dauntingly beyond our reach.

But, we survived four years ago, we improved bit by bit, and now we are in the mix, at least for finishing 6th.

And so, it is tempting to think: the standard is poor (because we are keeping pace with most of the frontrunners). It must be, if we are in with a chance, again, while performances have been pretty ordinary (thing is, for Wigan away recently, that was us four years ago: nothing between the teams only one had a bit of quality up front to actually score).

As others have said, there is not much between the top half clubs below the top two. Much of a muchness. It's all up for grabs.

Small margins will come into play. Luck with injuries too. And as we head toward the final third of the season, the steady hand, experience and been-there-and-done-it steely eyed assurance of the respective head coaches/managers.

I think some are upset because in December we beat third placed Fulham at their place, and the second half of the season looked improbably exciting and full of possibility. Finally, this time, surely we are going to .... etc, etc.

Now, we have fallen away, and it looks to many more like a repeat of the last two seasons, where we get into a great position, then fall away when the heat is on.

There are signs and reasons to remain hopeful and optimistic, or fearful and a bit gloomy. Or all four, even.

 

Spot on.  Remember looking at Forest’s bench that 15/16 season, Blackstock, J.Ward, Vaughan etc and thinking, crikey this is gonna be tough.  We actually won with a brace from Albie!!

Now I look at those names and wouldn’t want any of them.

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13 hours ago, Galway Red said:

You honestly think the standard is high enough when despite our woeful performances we sit 1 point out of the play-offs? 

Using that logic the premier league must be woeful as the poorest Man Utd team in decades sits just outside the champions league spots

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57 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

You say that but every season the teams that go up don’t automatically come back down now,

I said this season.....

Previous years there has always been at least one 'quality' side head and shoulders above the rest.  Not this season.

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53 minutes ago, SPAZZA said:

 we played Arsenal off the park in the first half. 

Once 'dry January' is done I'll have a pint of whatever it is you're drinking......

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Sheffield United with pretty much all recent championship players are right up there in the prem this season.

The championship has evolved massively.

 

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26 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

I said this season.....

Previous years there has always been at least one 'quality' side head and shoulders above the rest.  Not this season.

Sheffield united could get into europe

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4 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Sheffield united could get into europe

Last I looked they play in The Premier?

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2 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Last I looked they play in The Premier?

But ur argument is that the gap between the two leagues is massive,

it isn’t every season promoted sides do well in the prem 

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1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

I think the OP is right.

The gulf between Premier and Championship grows ever wider and there isn't a single Championship side this year who'd remotely look to have the ability to survive promotion, irrespective of how much money they threw at it.

Our league position despite the quality (rather lack of) we've delivered, shows it isn't that great. Are we really that better a side than brought us out of the 3rd tier? I'm not so sure we are, several tens of millions on, that is. Several of that side ply their trade at this level or higher, our best players have gone for significant sums to Premier money only to be found signally lacking. It's as though The Premier now consume the best of The Championship to prevent them being used elsewhere, to hold them as 3rd string options in case of catastrophic injury plagues, else they're held to tick the correct FA boxes in terms of supposed player development of our national game.

Premier players who drop down to our level tend to be end of career also-rans or those who finally proved they weren't up to scratch despite the promise of youth. As ever, we're exemplar at picking up both ends of the spectrum. The Bristol City pre-retirement village is as strongly occupied as ever.

Funny how people see footbally differently.  I actually think the distnce between the bottom half of the Prem and the Championship is closer than ever.  Who would have thought that Sheffield Utd would be doing what they're doing.  Al

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40 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

But ur argument is that the gap between the two leagues is massive,

it isn’t every season promoted sides do well in the prem 

No, I said it used to be that one or two sides were head and shoulders above but that's rapidly decreased to the point of having disappeared. Swansea, Wolves et al were good enough to compete with investment. That's not the case this year. Neither WBA, Leeds or Fulham are much and struggle to beat average Championship outfits.

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