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Promised land negativity


Whale Eye Beef Hooked

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I’ve been thinking over the last few weeks... what’s this forum going to be like if we finally make it to the promised land.  
we will obviously struggle.   If you look at Newcastle,  awful to watch something like 30% possession at home and no shots on target until the 85th min ( last couple of games have been especially poor ).  Bournemouth have been awful, Norwich and Brighton have struggled of late ( ok , Bournemouth won their last game but before that were bad ) , Southampton started bad then got hammered 9-0 but have turned it around since etc etc 

it’s quite likely we will come back down , then re-build with the parachute payments, hopefully go back up and become a sustained premier league club.  
I’m just curious, with all the negativity on here after a couple of defeats, surely it will be toxic if we are in the bottom 3 of the prem mustering the odd goal / odd win here or there ?

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Mate of mine is a Swansea fan, he said once the novelty of visiting the big stadiums (high demand for limited ticket allocations) & seeing the famous names play at the Liberty had worn off & they started to struggle near the bottom they soon got fed up of hardly ever winning.

He says he's enjoying life back in the Championship

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Similar argument to whether you prefer where we’re at now or if you preferred the season under Cotterill playing entertaining football in the league below smashing teams week in, week out. I know many won’t agree, but give me the latter any day for entertainment value. 

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Well we’ll never get anywhere if we’re afraid of struggling in the prem. I’d be over the moon if we went up and then backing them to the hilt to survive, and build from there. I want to see us lift a major trophy one day, if we can become even a bottom half PL club that gives us a shot at a League Cup/FA Cup. We can’t be afraid of the difficulties success will bring otherwise what are we doing all this for?

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I know a Norwich season ticket holder who can’t wait to come back down says it far more fun . And talking to a Liverpool season ticket holder regarding meeting up if we had got  through say Liverpool don’t want fans like him who go for a few pints watch the game and go straight back to the pub without spending a penny in the ground. Also if we did get promoted the kids £50 season ticket with a shirt would end I imagine. Would love to see us go up but a lot of things would change

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29 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Similar argument to whether you prefer where we’re at now or if you preferred the season under Cotterill playing entertaining football in the league below smashing teams week in, week out. I know many won’t agree, but give me the latter any day for entertainment value. 

Big Fish/Small Pond or mediumish fish in a larger one is basically a tradeoff there.

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I was interested in the thread about how many decent players we all thought City currently hold with a view to a top 6 finish this season. Concensus of opinion seemed to be very few. On that basis I suspect hardly any of the current squad would actually be good enough for the Premiership.

So promotion would probably mean we'd have to rip the guts out of this team to try and survive, likely we would end up buying journeymen etc.with limited opportunity for the youngsters. The one thing that always makes me wonder is how do you motivate the current squad for a promotion push, which if successful, would probably mean they lose their job with the City. Can't be many occupations where success would  likely be rewarded with the boot.

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1 minute ago, Redstart said:

I was interested in the thread about how many decent players we all thought City currently hold with a view to a top 6 finish this season. Concensus of opinion seemed to be very few. On that basis I suspect hardly any of the current squad would actually be good enough for the Premiership.

So promotion would probably mean we'd have to rip the guts out of this team to try and survive, likely we would end up buying journeymen etc.with limited opportunity for the youngsters. The one thing that always makes me wonder is how do you motivate the current squad for a promotion push, which if successful, would probably mean they lose their job with the City. Can't be many occupations where success would  likely be rewarded with the boot.

They’re playing so badly at the moment it’s hard to judge. Reality is, most of them aren’t genuinely as bad as they’re playing. For example, We know Kalas is top end at this level. 

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1 minute ago, Fordy62 said:

They’re playing so badly at the moment it’s hard to judge. Reality is, most of them aren’t genuinely as bad as they’re playing. For example, We know Kalas is top end at this level. 

True, but as an example I believe Kalas played most of the season for Fulham when they were promoted to Premiership - did they then buy him - nope.

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Everyone reacts differently to results.

For some, a win is a win and the standard of match or opposition is irrelevant, they'll be ecstatic and enjoy the rest of the week. The opposite being true of a defeat.

For others, the value of a win is dependant on pre-set expectations. 'It's only Barnsley, we should win that' or 'Brentford are a good side, we'll get a hammering' - and so when we do or don't the feeling is muted or amplified by the expectation.

Personally, I'm much happier now than when we were in League One. The wins mean more, albeit less frequent. I can only imagine that for me, this would amplify even further in the Premier League.

Remember the feeling of beating Manchester United. We might experience that a few times every season in the premier league. There will be plenty of losses, sure, but in my opinion the increased value of victories, and in theory, the higher quality of players we could attract, would offset that.

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3 minutes ago, Redstart said:

I was interested in the thread about how many decent players we all thought City currently hold with a view to a top 6 finish this season. Concensus of opinion seemed to be very few. On that basis I suspect hardly any of the current squad would actually be good enough for the Premiership.

So promotion would probably mean we'd have to rip the guts out of this team to try and survive, likely we would end up buying journeymen etc.with limited opportunity for the youngsters. The one thing that always makes me wonder is how do you motivate the current squad for a promotion push, which if successful, would probably mean they lose their job with the City. Can't be many occupations where success would  likely be rewarded with the boot.

It seems a million lightyears away at present but if we ever did get promoted, I hope we would try Norwich's approach.

Reward the players and manager with a season in the Premier League, probably get relegated with a record low number of points and build again in the Championship.

Unfortunately I think we're more likely to do a "Fulham" - spend all the proceeds of promotion on new players, still lose a lot of games and end up in the Championship without the cash. Our fans wouldn't accept us going up with just the squad that wins promotion.

So yes, more than likely the promotion winning players would be constucting their own exit from the club. But who are we kidding, this isn't going to happen anytime soon!

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1 hour ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said:

I’ve been thinking over the last few weeks... what’s this forum going to be like if we finally make it to the promised land.  
we will obviously struggle.   If you look at Newcastle,  awful to watch something like 30% possession at home and no shots on target until the 85th min ( last couple of games have been especially poor ).  Bournemouth have been awful, Norwich and Brighton have struggled of late ( ok , Bournemouth won their last game but before that were bad ) , Southampton started bad then got hammered 9-0 but have turned it around since etc etc 

it’s quite likely we will come back down , then re-build with the parachute payments, hopefully go back up and become a sustained premier league club.  
I’m just curious, with all the negativity on here after a couple of defeats, surely it will be toxic if we are in the bottom 3 of the prem mustering the odd goal / odd win here or there ?

.. 

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I don't call it the promised land. But getting to the prem for me is the aim, but I do not understand how fans get annoyed when we don't quite make the playoffs.

Only 6 teams can make it into the playoffs. I am sure we will get there soon enough. Maybe we even make it to automatics one day, who knows.

But there are loads of big clubs, clubs with parachute money, bigger crowds, teams with many ex prem players. It's a very tough league.

I like to try and enjoy the journey rather than get frustrated by not being at the destination. Many fans would only get fed up and bored of being a lower mid table prem side if we managed to ever become that season after season.

A bit like how Charlton fans had enough of Curbishley keeping them safely in the prem.

I do admit though the football at the moment is not good enough. Improve that, which I believe LJ can do, and be in the mix and i'll be happy.

I am not overly fussed about the prem, though it would be great to get there. I don't think I would ever want us to go down from there either like some fans that get fed up with prem football. Surely any fan should want their club to do as well as possible.

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23 minutes ago, Redstart said:

I was interested in the thread about how many decent players we all thought City currently hold with a view to a top 6 finish this season. Concensus of opinion seemed to be very few. On that basis I suspect hardly any of the current squad would actually be good enough for the Premiership.

So promotion would probably mean we'd have to rip the guts out of this team to try and survive, likely we would end up buying journeymen etc.with limited opportunity for the youngsters. The one thing that always makes me wonder is how do you motivate the current squad for a promotion push, which if successful, would probably mean they lose their job with the City. Can't be many occupations where success would  likely be rewarded with the boot.

Huge bonus, chance of top division football. Worst case scenario, we sell them to a championship club, and they get a significantly higher wage and signing on bonus than they would if we didn't go up. 

If I was footballer changing clubs I'd much rather be in the position to say I've achieved promotion to the prem, than not. 

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24 minutes ago, sticks 1969 said:

I know a Norwich season ticket holder who can’t wait to come back down says it far more fun . And talking to a Liverpool season ticket holder regarding meeting up if we had got  through say Liverpool don’t want fans like him who go for a few pints watch the game and go straight back to the pub without spending a penny in the ground. Also if we did get promoted the kids £50 season ticket with a shirt would end I imagine. Would love to see us go up but a lot of things would change

Tickets prices do not need to change that much, my lad has a season ticket at Southampton that costs £1 a game. I.e £19.

 

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35 minutes ago, Redstart said:

I was interested in the thread about how many decent players we all thought City currently hold with a view to a top 6 finish this season. Concensus of opinion seemed to be very few. On that basis I suspect hardly any of the current squad would actually be good enough for the Premiership.

So promotion would probably mean we'd have to rip the guts out of this team to try and survive, likely we would end up buying journeymen etc.with limited opportunity for the youngsters. The one thing that always makes me wonder is how do you motivate the current squad for a promotion push, which if successful, would probably mean they lose their job with the City. Can't be many occupations where success would  likely be rewarded with the boot.

I presume there is a big fat promotion bonus tucked away with a wage increase in some of the newer contracts ?

They wouldn't lose their jobs as they have fixed term contracts, and being part of what would be a good championship side would make them attractive to other champ clubs.

The ones with contracts that would overlap the prem season would relish the chance of getting on the pitch even if only a bit part player at that stage, and injuries, suspensions could open things up for them.

I see nothing to demotivate personally.

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21 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I don't call it the promised land. But getting to the prem for me is the aim, but I do not understand how fans get annoyed when we don't quite make the playoffs.

Only 6 teams can make it into the playoffs. I am sure we will get there soon enough. Maybe we even make it to automatics one day, who knows.

But there are loads of big clubs, clubs with parachute money, bigger crowds, teams with many ex prem players. It's a very tough league.

I like to try and enjoy the journey rather than get frustrated by not being at the destination. Many fans would only get fed up and bored of being a lower mid table prem side if we managed to ever become that season after season.

A bit like how Charlton fans had enough of Curbishley keeping them safely in the prem.

I do admit though the football at the moment is not good enough. Improve that, which I believe LJ can do, and be in the mix and i'll be happy.

I am not overly fussed about the prem, though it would be great to get there. I don't think I would ever want us to go down from there either like some fans that get fed up with prem football. Surely any fan should want their club to do as well as possible.

It's a cultural thing, three generations of people who have had the world handed to them on a plate. Taught only the cost of things rather than the value. 

 

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1 hour ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said:

I’ve been thinking over the last few weeks... what’s this forum going to be like if we finally make it to the promised land.  
we will obviously struggle.   If you look at Newcastle,  awful to watch something like 30% possession at home and no shots on target until the 85th min ( last couple of games have been especially poor ).  Bournemouth have been awful, Norwich and Brighton have struggled of late ( ok , Bournemouth won their last game but before that were bad ) , Southampton started bad then got hammered 9-0 but have turned it around since etc etc 

it’s quite likely we will come back down , then re-build with the parachute payments, hopefully go back up and become a sustained premier league club.  
I’m just curious, with all the negativity on here after a couple of defeats, surely it will be toxic if we are in the bottom 3 of the prem mustering the odd goal / odd win here or there ?

Imo, the forum will have far more complaining.

Prices will go up, less games, fixtures moved for TV. Everything will be more geared towards the customer. It's bad enough now...it will be far worse imo.

As for expectations...I don't think we will go up for quite a while if ever.

Thankfully I like the Championship and am happy to watch City play in it. No lack of ambition...I've spent seasons watching Prem Football at Man Utd in the past...it's not all that. Champions League games at night are far better.

From a City fans perspective, the golden carrot every season seems to effect so many people expectations and enjoyment.

If we aren't at least play off places for some it complete doom and gloom it seems.

Wasn't long ago people were shouting for us to be a stable Championship Club and have a better pathway for the academy.

4 seasons up and doing that, and people want even more.

Unfortunately it's more down to entertaining football imo. Only a few play sparkling football...we are like the majority. 

It's all a catch 22 imo

 

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The financial benefits would be huge and would take us to the next level. It would make us more of an attractive proposition upon relegation for signing players as we'd finally be referred to as a Premier League team. There's a lot of benefits which are hard to overlook but I am also apprehensive. 

One of the biggest downsides for me would be losing 'our' club and residents of Bristol who have never been to the Gate jump on the back of our success, only to piss off when we go down. This is one of the reasons, from a selfish perspective, I wasn't too disappointed at the Shrewsbury result. Being based in London and having other commitments at the weekend, I'm not a season ticket holder. The thought of someone going to big games who weren't interested in us when we were in League One is upsetting. Of course, having larger crowds puts more money into the club but I don't like the idea of actual fans missing out.

I also believe a lot of clubs fall into a trap and struggle to motivate high paid players who were purchased on promotion and are unwilling to play in the Championship. As someone mentioned, newly promoted clubs attract mercenaries from overseas who are only interested in playing in the top flight, only to not be interested post relegation. Relegated sides often struggle as a result. 

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I wouldn't like to be in the Premiership at all and the Championship already has a feel of Premiership II about it.

However for all the fans who have never seen us play in the top league it would be fantastic and despite my views on the Premiership I would very much celebrate promotion.

I am in the privileged (old!) position of having seen us play in the top league; though to be precise that was just the once.

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8 minutes ago, Coppello said:

The financial benefits would be huge and would take us to the next level. It would make us more of an attractive proposition upon relegation for signing players as we'd finally be referred to as a Premier League team. There's a lot of benefits which are hard to overlook but I am also apprehensive. 

One of the biggest downsides for me would be losing 'our' club and residents of Bristol who have never been to the Gate jump on the back of our success, only to piss off when we go down. This is one of the reasons, from a selfish perspective, I wasn't too disappointed at the Shrewsbury result. Being based in London and having other commitments at the weekend, I'm not a season ticket holder. The thought of someone going to big games who weren't interested in us when we were in League One is upsetting. Of course, having larger crowds puts more money into the club but I don't like the idea of actual fans missing out.

I also believe a lot of clubs fall into a trap and struggle to motivate high paid players who were purchased on promotion and are unwilling to play in the Championship. As someone mentioned, newly promoted clubs attract mercenaries from overseas who are only interested in playing in the top flight, only to not be interested post relegation. Relegated sides often struggle as a result. 

Do I think we will ever make it? No, not really.

Would I want us to make it? Yes, for the same reasons as detailed in first paragraph above. 

Am I that bothered when we don't make it? Yes but then I totally agree with paragraph 2 above. 

I also am really bored with Premier League being the be all and all. Fed up with so much coverage and the plastic support and the 'who is your Premier team?' conversations that are ended by me rather abruptly. Yea, I'd like to give it a go but being regularly competitive the odd good cup run and being a soundly run club are more important to me.

COYR 

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17 minutes ago, Coppello said:

The financial benefits would be huge and would take us to the next level. It would make us more of an attractive proposition upon relegation for signing players as we'd finally be referred to as a Premier League team. There's a lot of benefits which are hard to overlook but I am also apprehensive. 

One of the biggest downsides for me would be losing 'our' club and residents of Bristol who have never been to the Gate jump on the back of our success, only to piss off when we go down. This is one of the reasons, from a selfish perspective, I wasn't too disappointed at the Shrewsbury result. Being based in London and having other commitments at the weekend, I'm not a season ticket holder. The thought of someone going to big games who weren't interested in us when we were in League One is upsetting. Of course, having larger crowds puts more money into the club but I don't like the idea of actual fans missing out.

I also believe a lot of clubs fall into a trap and struggle to motivate high paid players who were purchased on promotion and are unwilling to play in the Championship. As someone mentioned, newly promoted clubs attract mercenaries from overseas who are only interested in playing in the top flight, only to not be interested post relegation. Relegated sides often struggle as a result. 

On the money ( if you will pardon the pun ) Copello!

Just over a decade ago many of us were walking up Wembley way and optimistically (overoptimistically, as it turned out) looking forward to getting to the "promised land".

During the intervening years I wonder whether there has been a sea change in fans' feelings about getting to the promised land. The massive increase in Sky TV deals means it truly is the promised land for clubs' finances, but as the money has exploded, it seems that the feedback increasingly from fans of clubs that get there, but come back down fairly soon after, is that it is not all it's cracked up to be and anything but the land of milk and honey.

 

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2 hours ago, myol'man said:

Mate of mine is a Swansea fan, he said once the novelty of visiting the big stadiums (high demand for limited ticket allocations) & seeing the famous names play at the Liberty had worn off & they started to struggle near the bottom they soon got fed up of hardly ever winning.

He says he's enjoying life back in the Championship

 

1 hour ago, sticks 1969 said:

I know a Norwich season ticket holder who can’t wait to come back down says it far more fun . 

I know a West Brom fan who feels much the same. His favourite times were the years Albion spent battling in the top half of the Championship before finally making it to the Prem.

Then they spent the best part of a decade yoyo-ing between the two, which was exciting, Eventually they established as a mid-table Prem side for a few seasons, at which point he became frankly bored with the whole thing. Obviously the dire Pulis football didn't help, but it was more that they had no chance of ever winning anything again, and for a while at least, looked unlikely to go down. He really lost interest at that point, but seems to be enjoying life again this season.

I loved those four seasons at the top when I was a kid, but maybe we're in our optimum place right now? Of course it would be a massive thrill to get up there, but be careful what you wish for. 

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I have been a City fan ever since my Dad took me down to Ashton Gate in the mid '80s. I have therefore never seen us in the top flight of English football. I don't mind what happens to us in the first season of promotion (as long as we don't do some sort of Derby County disaster/nightmare) if we ever get promoted a second time I will honestly not care as long as we try to play the right way.

I know the chances of winning the Premiership are astronomically small and even a top 4 finish would be incredibly hard to pull off so I believe I would be pretty content with watching the City highlights every Saturday night on the telly.

I'm sure I would still come on this forum to moan about things from time to time, but I feel that a lot of frustration I have is having supported an 'Almost' team for so many seasons.

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12 minutes ago, City Rocker said:

 

I know a West Brom fan who feels much the same. His favourite times were the years Albion spent battling in the top half of the Championship before finally making it to the Prem.

Then they spent the best part of a decade yoyo-ing between the two, which was exciting, Eventually they established as a mid-table Prem side for a few seasons, at which point he became frankly bored with the whole thing. Obviously the dire Pulis football didn't help, but it was more that they had no chance of ever winning anything again, and for a while at least, looked unlikely to go down. He really lost interest at that point, but seems to be enjoying life again this season.

I loved those four seasons at the top when I was a kid, but maybe we're in our optimum place right now? Of course it would be a massive thrill to get up there, but be careful what you wish for. 

Back in the 70s it was possible for a championship ( then division 2) club to not only get to the top flight, but to have a chance of being reasonably competitive. Clubs like Notts County and Carlisle got to the top, which would be unthinkable today - them getting to the championship now would be almost unthinkable. While the big clubs were still big clubs back then, there wasn't the massive financial  gulf as there is today - IIRC we were among the top payers back then.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said:

I’ve been thinking over the last few weeks... what’s this forum going to be like if we finally make it to the promised land.  
we will obviously struggle.   If you look at Newcastle,  awful to watch something like 30% possession at home and no shots on target until the 85th min ( last couple of games have been especially poor ).  Bournemouth have been awful, Norwich and Brighton have struggled of late ( ok , Bournemouth won their last game but before that were bad ) , Southampton started bad then got hammered 9-0 but have turned it around since etc etc 

it’s quite likely we will come back down , then re-build with the parachute payments, hopefully go back up and become a sustained premier league club.  
I’m just curious, with all the negativity on here after a couple of defeats, surely it will be toxic if we are in the bottom 3 of the prem mustering the odd goal / odd win here or there ?

Expectations would be a lot lower happy to just stay up etc so no for a few years at least peace would reign on OTIB ( well we can dream).

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3 minutes ago, MigratedRobin said:

I have been a City fan ever since my Dad took me down to Ashton Gate in the mid '80s. I have therefore never seen us in the top flight of English football. I don't mind what happens to us in the first season of promotion (as long as we don't do some sort of Derby County disaster/nightmare) if we ever get promoted a second time I will honestly not care as long as we try to play the right way.

I know the chances of winning the Premiership are astronomically small and even a top 4 finish would be incredibly hard to pull off so I believe I would be pretty content with watching the City highlights every Saturday night on the telly.

I'm sure I would still come on this forum to moan about things from time to time, but I feel that a lot of frustration I have is having supported an 'Almost' team for so many seasons.

Perhaps we would enjoy a better class of frustration on here if we were in the premier league?  :)

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