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Whale Eye Beef Hooked

Promised land negativity

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I’ve been thinking over the last few weeks... what’s this forum going to be like if we finally make it to the promised land.  
we will obviously struggle.   If you look at Newcastle,  awful to watch something like 30% possession at home and no shots on target until the 85th min ( last couple of games have been especially poor ).  Bournemouth have been awful, Norwich and Brighton have struggled of late ( ok , Bournemouth won their last game but before that were bad ) , Southampton started bad then got hammered 9-0 but have turned it around since etc etc 

it’s quite likely we will come back down , then re-build with the parachute payments, hopefully go back up and become a sustained premier league club.  
I’m just curious, with all the negativity on here after a couple of defeats, surely it will be toxic if we are in the bottom 3 of the prem mustering the odd goal / odd win here or there ?

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Mate of mine is a Swansea fan, he said once the novelty of visiting the big stadiums (high demand for limited ticket allocations) & seeing the famous names play at the Liberty had worn off & they started to struggle near the bottom they soon got fed up of hardly ever winning.

He says he's enjoying life back in the Championship

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Always wondered this, think fans are so focused on the big prize, that when (if) we actually get it, it could easily turn out to be a disappointment. 

Like to think we would be more of a Bournemouth/Burnley type club if we did go up though - the last few seasons neither have looked in serious relegation danger.

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Similar argument to whether you prefer where we’re at now or if you preferred the season under Cotterill playing entertaining football in the league below smashing teams week in, week out. I know many won’t agree, but give me the latter any day for entertainment value. 

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Well we’ll never get anywhere if we’re afraid of struggling in the prem. I’d be over the moon if we went up and then backing them to the hilt to survive, and build from there. I want to see us lift a major trophy one day, if we can become even a bottom half PL club that gives us a shot at a League Cup/FA Cup. We can’t be afraid of the difficulties success will bring otherwise what are we doing all this for?

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I know a Norwich season ticket holder who can’t wait to come back down says it far more fun . And talking to a Liverpool season ticket holder regarding meeting up if we had got  through say Liverpool don’t want fans like him who go for a few pints watch the game and go straight back to the pub without spending a penny in the ground. Also if we did get promoted the kids £50 season ticket with a shirt would end I imagine. Would love to see us go up but a lot of things would change

Edited by sticks 1969
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29 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Similar argument to whether you prefer where we’re at now or if you preferred the season under Cotterill playing entertaining football in the league below smashing teams week in, week out. I know many won’t agree, but give me the latter any day for entertainment value. 

Big Fish/Small Pond or mediumish fish in a larger one is basically a tradeoff there.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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I was interested in the thread about how many decent players we all thought City currently hold with a view to a top 6 finish this season. Concensus of opinion seemed to be very few. On that basis I suspect hardly any of the current squad would actually be good enough for the Premiership.

So promotion would probably mean we'd have to rip the guts out of this team to try and survive, likely we would end up buying journeymen etc.with limited opportunity for the youngsters. The one thing that always makes me wonder is how do you motivate the current squad for a promotion push, which if successful, would probably mean they lose their job with the City. Can't be many occupations where success would  likely be rewarded with the boot.

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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Big Fish/Small Pond or mediumish fish in a larger one is basically a tradeoff there.

Yep. Entertainment wise though, no question. 

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1 minute ago, Redstart said:

I was interested in the thread about how many decent players we all thought City currently hold with a view to a top 6 finish this season. Concensus of opinion seemed to be very few. On that basis I suspect hardly any of the current squad would actually be good enough for the Premiership.

So promotion would probably mean we'd have to rip the guts out of this team to try and survive, likely we would end up buying journeymen etc.with limited opportunity for the youngsters. The one thing that always makes me wonder is how do you motivate the current squad for a promotion push, which if successful, would probably mean they lose their job with the City. Can't be many occupations where success would  likely be rewarded with the boot.

They’re playing so badly at the moment it’s hard to judge. Reality is, most of them aren’t genuinely as bad as they’re playing. For example, We know Kalas is top end at this level. 

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1 minute ago, Fordy62 said:

They’re playing so badly at the moment it’s hard to judge. Reality is, most of them aren’t genuinely as bad as they’re playing. For example, We know Kalas is top end at this level. 

True, but as an example I believe Kalas played most of the season for Fulham when they were promoted to Premiership - did they then buy him - nope.

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Everyone reacts differently to results.

For some, a win is a win and the standard of match or opposition is irrelevant, they'll be ecstatic and enjoy the rest of the week. The opposite being true of a defeat.

For others, the value of a win is dependant on pre-set expectations. 'It's only Barnsley, we should win that' or 'Brentford are a good side, we'll get a hammering' - and so when we do or don't the feeling is muted or amplified by the expectation.

Personally, I'm much happier now than when we were in League One. The wins mean more, albeit less frequent. I can only imagine that for me, this would amplify even further in the Premier League.

Remember the feeling of beating Manchester United. We might experience that a few times every season in the premier league. There will be plenty of losses, sure, but in my opinion the increased value of victories, and in theory, the higher quality of players we could attract, would offset that.

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3 minutes ago, Redstart said:

I was interested in the thread about how many decent players we all thought City currently hold with a view to a top 6 finish this season. Concensus of opinion seemed to be very few. On that basis I suspect hardly any of the current squad would actually be good enough for the Premiership.

So promotion would probably mean we'd have to rip the guts out of this team to try and survive, likely we would end up buying journeymen etc.with limited opportunity for the youngsters. The one thing that always makes me wonder is how do you motivate the current squad for a promotion push, which if successful, would probably mean they lose their job with the City. Can't be many occupations where success would  likely be rewarded with the boot.

It seems a million lightyears away at present but if we ever did get promoted, I hope we would try Norwich's approach.

Reward the players and manager with a season in the Premier League, probably get relegated with a record low number of points and build again in the Championship.

Unfortunately I think we're more likely to do a "Fulham" - spend all the proceeds of promotion on new players, still lose a lot of games and end up in the Championship without the cash. Our fans wouldn't accept us going up with just the squad that wins promotion.

So yes, more than likely the promotion winning players would be constucting their own exit from the club. But who are we kidding, this isn't going to happen anytime soon!

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1 hour ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said:

I’ve been thinking over the last few weeks... what’s this forum going to be like if we finally make it to the promised land.  
we will obviously struggle.   If you look at Newcastle,  awful to watch something like 30% possession at home and no shots on target until the 85th min ( last couple of games have been especially poor ).  Bournemouth have been awful, Norwich and Brighton have struggled of late ( ok , Bournemouth won their last game but before that were bad ) , Southampton started bad then got hammered 9-0 but have turned it around since etc etc 

it’s quite likely we will come back down , then re-build with the parachute payments, hopefully go back up and become a sustained premier league club.  
I’m just curious, with all the negativity on here after a couple of defeats, surely it will be toxic if we are in the bottom 3 of the prem mustering the odd goal / odd win here or there ?

.. 

Edited by CotswoldRed

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I don't call it the promised land. But getting to the prem for me is the aim, but I do not understand how fans get annoyed when we don't quite make the playoffs.

Only 6 teams can make it into the playoffs. I am sure we will get there soon enough. Maybe we even make it to automatics one day, who knows.

But there are loads of big clubs, clubs with parachute money, bigger crowds, teams with many ex prem players. It's a very tough league.

I like to try and enjoy the journey rather than get frustrated by not being at the destination. Many fans would only get fed up and bored of being a lower mid table prem side if we managed to ever become that season after season.

A bit like how Charlton fans had enough of Curbishley keeping them safely in the prem.

I do admit though the football at the moment is not good enough. Improve that, which I believe LJ can do, and be in the mix and i'll be happy.

I am not overly fussed about the prem, though it would be great to get there. I don't think I would ever want us to go down from there either like some fans that get fed up with prem football. Surely any fan should want their club to do as well as possible.

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23 minutes ago, Redstart said:

I was interested in the thread about how many decent players we all thought City currently hold with a view to a top 6 finish this season. Concensus of opinion seemed to be very few. On that basis I suspect hardly any of the current squad would actually be good enough for the Premiership.

So promotion would probably mean we'd have to rip the guts out of this team to try and survive, likely we would end up buying journeymen etc.with limited opportunity for the youngsters. The one thing that always makes me wonder is how do you motivate the current squad for a promotion push, which if successful, would probably mean they lose their job with the City. Can't be many occupations where success would  likely be rewarded with the boot.

Huge bonus, chance of top division football. Worst case scenario, we sell them to a championship club, and they get a significantly higher wage and signing on bonus than they would if we didn't go up. 

If I was footballer changing clubs I'd much rather be in the position to say I've achieved promotion to the prem, than not. 

Edited by Seneca the Younger
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24 minutes ago, sticks 1969 said:

I know a Norwich season ticket holder who can’t wait to come back down says it far more fun . And talking to a Liverpool season ticket holder regarding meeting up if we had got  through say Liverpool don’t want fans like him who go for a few pints watch the game and go straight back to the pub without spending a penny in the ground. Also if we did get promoted the kids £50 season ticket with a shirt would end I imagine. Would love to see us go up but a lot of things would change

Tickets prices do not need to change that much, my lad has a season ticket at Southampton that costs £1 a game. I.e £19.

 

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35 minutes ago, Redstart said:

I was interested in the thread about how many decent players we all thought City currently hold with a view to a top 6 finish this season. Concensus of opinion seemed to be very few. On that basis I suspect hardly any of the current squad would actually be good enough for the Premiership.

So promotion would probably mean we'd have to rip the guts out of this team to try and survive, likely we would end up buying journeymen etc.with limited opportunity for the youngsters. The one thing that always makes me wonder is how do you motivate the current squad for a promotion push, which if successful, would probably mean they lose their job with the City. Can't be many occupations where success would  likely be rewarded with the boot.

I presume there is a big fat promotion bonus tucked away with a wage increase in some of the newer contracts ?

They wouldn't lose their jobs as they have fixed term contracts, and being part of what would be a good championship side would make them attractive to other champ clubs.

The ones with contracts that would overlap the prem season would relish the chance of getting on the pitch even if only a bit part player at that stage, and injuries, suspensions could open things up for them.

I see nothing to demotivate personally.

Edited by Natchfever
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21 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I don't call it the promised land. But getting to the prem for me is the aim, but I do not understand how fans get annoyed when we don't quite make the playoffs.

Only 6 teams can make it into the playoffs. I am sure we will get there soon enough. Maybe we even make it to automatics one day, who knows.

But there are loads of big clubs, clubs with parachute money, bigger crowds, teams with many ex prem players. It's a very tough league.

I like to try and enjoy the journey rather than get frustrated by not being at the destination. Many fans would only get fed up and bored of being a lower mid table prem side if we managed to ever become that season after season.

A bit like how Charlton fans had enough of Curbishley keeping them safely in the prem.

I do admit though the football at the moment is not good enough. Improve that, which I believe LJ can do, and be in the mix and i'll be happy.

I am not overly fussed about the prem, though it would be great to get there. I don't think I would ever want us to go down from there either like some fans that get fed up with prem football. Surely any fan should want their club to do as well as possible.

It's a cultural thing, three generations of people who have had the world handed to them on a plate. Taught only the cost of things rather than the value. 

 

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1 hour ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said:

I’ve been thinking over the last few weeks... what’s this forum going to be like if we finally make it to the promised land.  
we will obviously struggle.   If you look at Newcastle,  awful to watch something like 30% possession at home and no shots on target until the 85th min ( last couple of games have been especially poor ).  Bournemouth have been awful, Norwich and Brighton have struggled of late ( ok , Bournemouth won their last game but before that were bad ) , Southampton started bad then got hammered 9-0 but have turned it around since etc etc 

it’s quite likely we will come back down , then re-build with the parachute payments, hopefully go back up and become a sustained premier league club.  
I’m just curious, with all the negativity on here after a couple of defeats, surely it will be toxic if we are in the bottom 3 of the prem mustering the odd goal / odd win here or there ?

Imo, the forum will have far more complaining.

Prices will go up, less games, fixtures moved for TV. Everything will be more geared towards the customer. It's bad enough now...it will be far worse imo.

As for expectations...I don't think we will go up for quite a while if ever.

Thankfully I like the Championship and am happy to watch City play in it. No lack of ambition...I've spent seasons watching Prem Football at Man Utd in the past...it's not all that. Champions League games at night are far better.

From a City fans perspective, the golden carrot every season seems to effect so many people expectations and enjoyment.

If we aren't at least play off places for some it complete doom and gloom it seems.

Wasn't long ago people were shouting for us to be a stable Championship Club and have a better pathway for the academy.

4 seasons up and doing that, and people want even more.

Unfortunately it's more down to entertaining football imo. Only a few play sparkling football...we are like the majority. 

It's all a catch 22 imo

 

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The financial benefits would be huge and would take us to the next level. It would make us more of an attractive proposition upon relegation for signing players as we'd finally be referred to as a Premier League team. There's a lot of benefits which are hard to overlook but I am also apprehensive. 

One of the biggest downsides for me would be losing 'our' club and residents of Bristol who have never been to the Gate jump on the back of our success, only to piss off when we go down. This is one of the reasons, from a selfish perspective, I wasn't too disappointed at the Shrewsbury result. Being based in London and having other commitments at the weekend, I'm not a season ticket holder. The thought of someone going to big games who weren't interested in us when we were in League One is upsetting. Of course, having larger crowds puts more money into the club but I don't like the idea of actual fans missing out.

I also believe a lot of clubs fall into a trap and struggle to motivate high paid players who were purchased on promotion and are unwilling to play in the Championship. As someone mentioned, newly promoted clubs attract mercenaries from overseas who are only interested in playing in the top flight, only to not be interested post relegation. Relegated sides often struggle as a result. 

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I wouldn't like to be in the Premiership at all and the Championship already has a feel of Premiership II about it.

However for all the fans who have never seen us play in the top league it would be fantastic and despite my views on the Premiership I would very much celebrate promotion.

I am in the privileged (old!) position of having seen us play in the top league; though to be precise that was just the once.

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8 minutes ago, Coppello said:

The financial benefits would be huge and would take us to the next level. It would make us more of an attractive proposition upon relegation for signing players as we'd finally be referred to as a Premier League team. There's a lot of benefits which are hard to overlook but I am also apprehensive. 

One of the biggest downsides for me would be losing 'our' club and residents of Bristol who have never been to the Gate jump on the back of our success, only to piss off when we go down. This is one of the reasons, from a selfish perspective, I wasn't too disappointed at the Shrewsbury result. Being based in London and having other commitments at the weekend, I'm not a season ticket holder. The thought of someone going to big games who weren't interested in us when we were in League One is upsetting. Of course, having larger crowds puts more money into the club but I don't like the idea of actual fans missing out.

I also believe a lot of clubs fall into a trap and struggle to motivate high paid players who were purchased on promotion and are unwilling to play in the Championship. As someone mentioned, newly promoted clubs attract mercenaries from overseas who are only interested in playing in the top flight, only to not be interested post relegation. Relegated sides often struggle as a result. 

Do I think we will ever make it? No, not really.

Would I want us to make it? Yes, for the same reasons as detailed in first paragraph above. 

Am I that bothered when we don't make it? Yes but then I totally agree with paragraph 2 above. 

I also am really bored with Premier League being the be all and all. Fed up with so much coverage and the plastic support and the 'who is your Premier team?' conversations that are ended by me rather abruptly. Yea, I'd like to give it a go but being regularly competitive the odd good cup run and being a soundly run club are more important to me.

COYR 

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17 minutes ago, Coppello said:

The financial benefits would be huge and would take us to the next level. It would make us more of an attractive proposition upon relegation for signing players as we'd finally be referred to as a Premier League team. There's a lot of benefits which are hard to overlook but I am also apprehensive. 

One of the biggest downsides for me would be losing 'our' club and residents of Bristol who have never been to the Gate jump on the back of our success, only to piss off when we go down. This is one of the reasons, from a selfish perspective, I wasn't too disappointed at the Shrewsbury result. Being based in London and having other commitments at the weekend, I'm not a season ticket holder. The thought of someone going to big games who weren't interested in us when we were in League One is upsetting. Of course, having larger crowds puts more money into the club but I don't like the idea of actual fans missing out.

I also believe a lot of clubs fall into a trap and struggle to motivate high paid players who were purchased on promotion and are unwilling to play in the Championship. As someone mentioned, newly promoted clubs attract mercenaries from overseas who are only interested in playing in the top flight, only to not be interested post relegation. Relegated sides often struggle as a result. 

On the money ( if you will pardon the pun ) Copello!

Just over a decade ago many of us were walking up Wembley way and optimistically (overoptimistically, as it turned out) looking forward to getting to the "promised land".

During the intervening years I wonder whether there has been a sea change in fans' feelings about getting to the promised land. The massive increase in Sky TV deals means it truly is the promised land for clubs' finances, but as the money has exploded, it seems that the feedback increasingly from fans of clubs that get there, but come back down fairly soon after, is that it is not all it's cracked up to be and anything but the land of milk and honey.

 

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2 hours ago, myol'man said:

Mate of mine is a Swansea fan, he said once the novelty of visiting the big stadiums (high demand for limited ticket allocations) & seeing the famous names play at the Liberty had worn off & they started to struggle near the bottom they soon got fed up of hardly ever winning.

He says he's enjoying life back in the Championship

 

1 hour ago, sticks 1969 said:

I know a Norwich season ticket holder who can’t wait to come back down says it far more fun . 

I know a West Brom fan who feels much the same. His favourite times were the years Albion spent battling in the top half of the Championship before finally making it to the Prem.

Then they spent the best part of a decade yoyo-ing between the two, which was exciting, Eventually they established as a mid-table Prem side for a few seasons, at which point he became frankly bored with the whole thing. Obviously the dire Pulis football didn't help, but it was more that they had no chance of ever winning anything again, and for a while at least, looked unlikely to go down. He really lost interest at that point, but seems to be enjoying life again this season.

I loved those four seasons at the top when I was a kid, but maybe we're in our optimum place right now? Of course it would be a massive thrill to get up there, but be careful what you wish for. 

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I have been a City fan ever since my Dad took me down to Ashton Gate in the mid '80s. I have therefore never seen us in the top flight of English football. I don't mind what happens to us in the first season of promotion (as long as we don't do some sort of Derby County disaster/nightmare) if we ever get promoted a second time I will honestly not care as long as we try to play the right way.

I know the chances of winning the Premiership are astronomically small and even a top 4 finish would be incredibly hard to pull off so I believe I would be pretty content with watching the City highlights every Saturday night on the telly.

I'm sure I would still come on this forum to moan about things from time to time, but I feel that a lot of frustration I have is having supported an 'Almost' team for so many seasons.

Edited by MigratedRobin

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12 minutes ago, City Rocker said:

 

I know a West Brom fan who feels much the same. His favourite times were the years Albion spent battling in the top half of the Championship before finally making it to the Prem.

Then they spent the best part of a decade yoyo-ing between the two, which was exciting, Eventually they established as a mid-table Prem side for a few seasons, at which point he became frankly bored with the whole thing. Obviously the dire Pulis football didn't help, but it was more that they had no chance of ever winning anything again, and for a while at least, looked unlikely to go down. He really lost interest at that point, but seems to be enjoying life again this season.

I loved those four seasons at the top when I was a kid, but maybe we're in our optimum place right now? Of course it would be a massive thrill to get up there, but be careful what you wish for. 

Back in the 70s it was possible for a championship ( then division 2) club to not only get to the top flight, but to have a chance of being reasonably competitive. Clubs like Notts County and Carlisle got to the top, which would be unthinkable today - them getting to the championship now would be almost unthinkable. While the big clubs were still big clubs back then, there wasn't the massive financial  gulf as there is today - IIRC we were among the top payers back then.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said:

I’ve been thinking over the last few weeks... what’s this forum going to be like if we finally make it to the promised land.  
we will obviously struggle.   If you look at Newcastle,  awful to watch something like 30% possession at home and no shots on target until the 85th min ( last couple of games have been especially poor ).  Bournemouth have been awful, Norwich and Brighton have struggled of late ( ok , Bournemouth won their last game but before that were bad ) , Southampton started bad then got hammered 9-0 but have turned it around since etc etc 

it’s quite likely we will come back down , then re-build with the parachute payments, hopefully go back up and become a sustained premier league club.  
I’m just curious, with all the negativity on here after a couple of defeats, surely it will be toxic if we are in the bottom 3 of the prem mustering the odd goal / odd win here or there ?

Expectations would be a lot lower happy to just stay up etc so no for a few years at least peace would reign on OTIB ( well we can dream).

Edited by pillred
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3 minutes ago, MigratedRobin said:

I have been a City fan ever since my Dad took me down to Ashton Gate in the mid '80s. I have therefore never seen us in the top flight of English football. I don't mind what happens to us in the first season of promotion (as long as we don't do some sort of Derby County disaster/nightmare) if we ever get promoted a second time I will honestly not care as long as we try to play the right way.

I know the chances of winning the Premiership are astronomically small and even a top 4 finish would be incredibly hard to pull off so I believe I would be pretty content with watching the City highlights every Saturday night on the telly.

I'm sure I would still come on this forum to moan about things from time to time, but I feel that a lot of frustration I have is having supported an 'Almost' team for so many seasons.

Perhaps we would enjoy a better class of frustration on here if we were in the premier league?  :)

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Some great responses 

I think it was spudski that said a few years back we all wanted to be an astablished championship team and now we are ... and I might add at the right end of the table with the club being run IMO as well as any club which is why I don’t understand the crap that goes around after A few losses    
Its a great league with great football , anyone can beat anyone , I love watching it every week

i think if we go up we will do it properly, live within our means and make a go of it but if we do come back down then we can build with a bigger budget.  I’m assuming we are aiming to be a club like Southampton   

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Depends whether or not you're a supporter of football or a rose-tinted football supporter.

If City get beat by a superior outfit playing decent football I'm sad though consoled by the fact we were outplayed. I hate being beaten by side who are no great shakes when we, too, are poor.

Not I fear we'll reach the promised land with this regime and despite being beaten twice it was brilliant to see the likes of Man City and the talent they put on show. That's entertainment.

Edited by BTRFTG
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I`ve never been a `Premier League is everything` person and while I get that we need to get there for financial reasons I certainly wouldn't enjoy getting royally rogered every week and going to AG wondering how many we`re going to get beat by today.

I`d much rather be competitive in the Championship and if that makes me lacking in ambition so be it.

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3 hours ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said:

I’ve been thinking over the last few weeks... what’s this forum going to be like if we finally make it to the promised land.  
we will obviously struggle.   If you look at Newcastle,  awful to watch something like 30% possession at home and no shots on target until the 85th min ( last couple of games have been especially poor ).  Bournemouth have been awful, Norwich and Brighton have struggled of late ( ok , Bournemouth won their last game but before that were bad ) , Southampton started bad then got hammered 9-0 but have turned it around since etc etc 

it’s quite likely we will come back down , then re-build with the parachute payments, hopefully go back up and become a sustained premier league club.  
I’m just curious, with all the negativity on here after a couple of defeats, surely it will be toxic if we are in the bottom 3 of the prem mustering the odd goal / odd win here or there ?

Negativity or people just stating fact?

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3 hours ago, Redstart said:

I was interested in the thread about how many decent players we all thought City currently hold with a view to a top 6 finish this season. Concensus of opinion seemed to be very few. On that basis I suspect hardly any of the current squad would actually be good enough for the Premiership.

So promotion would probably mean we'd have to rip the guts out of this team to try and survive, likely we would end up buying journeymen etc.with limited opportunity for the youngsters. The one thing that always makes me wonder is how do you motivate the current squad for a promotion push, which if successful, would probably mean they lose their job with the City. Can't be many occupations where success would  likely be rewarded with the boot.

Sheffield Utd is the correct answer 😀😀😀

Seriously you buy sensibly, Mousset, McBurnie, Robinson, etc, and if you come back down you are financially shafted.

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Might I suggest to all those who admit to not being able to countenance City losing on a regular basis you may wish to consider whether you've chosen to support the right club (says he through 54 tortured years of experience?) 

 

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5 hours ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said:

I’ve been thinking over the last few weeks... what’s this forum going to be like if we finally make it to the promised land.  
we will obviously struggle.   If you look at Newcastle,  awful to watch something like 30% possession at home and no shots on target until the 85th min ( last couple of games have been especially poor ).  Bournemouth have been awful, Norwich and Brighton have struggled of late ( ok , Bournemouth won their last game but before that were bad ) , Southampton started bad then got hammered 9-0 but have turned it around since etc etc 

it’s quite likely we will come back down , then re-build with the parachute payments, hopefully go back up and become a sustained premier league club.  
I’m just curious, with all the negativity on here after a couple of defeats, surely it will be toxic if we are in the bottom 3 of the prem mustering the odd goal / odd win here or there ?

Is it really the promised land for us fans?

Yes, you get to see top players but there is no joy in losing every week and scraping for points

The only people who benefit are the owners of the club 

The joy of getting to the Prem is probably more exhilarating than playing in it. Look at Norwich, an excellent football playing team who were by far the best team last season yet they sit bottom and likely to go down

I enjoy the Championship because you can get top losing to bottom and no one team is head and shoulders above anyone else and we are competitive 

I don’t care how much SL invests in the club if promoted, as we would be nailed on relegation candidates 

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About fifteen years ago someone posed the question on here "Do you want City in the Prem". The majority posted saying they'd be quite happy for City to be a strong Championship team with a good cup every few years.

Then we reached that P/O final and the then members of this forum seemed to change their minds to "We could do this, let's go for it".

Going further back when football was more even, in 1976 I wasn't scared, I was excited.

 

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Of course after defeats to Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and the big clubs from the North West, this forum would be full of Johnson out posts.

A few years back Derby just made it into the play offs and then won them. Their manager was hailed as a hero. As soon as repeated defeats occurred though, he was out.

 

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3 minutes ago, 22A said:

Of course after defeats to Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and the big clubs from the North West, this forum would be full of Johnson out posts.

A few years back Derby just made it into the play offs and then won them. Their manager was hailed as a hero. As soon as repeated defeats occurred though, he was out.

 

The Johnson Out brigade, have just temporarily become Johnson In 😂😂😂

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40 minutes ago, INCRED said:

 

The joy of getting to the Prem is probably more exhilarating than playing in it.  

The journey is without a doubt more enjoyable than the destination IMO.

In our defence I believe SL would not allow us to do a Fulham/Villa and spunk tens of millions on average players but would ensure we followed the Sheffield Utd/Norwich model.

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There is no point in existing as a club, taking part in a competition, unless the aim is to be successful.  Successful can mean different things to different people, but in a competitive sense, success must mean promotion.  How long would a large swath of the fan base be happy with being an ‘established Championship’ team, with not much likelihood of troubling the Prem.

I called it the Promised Land in a post the other day, somewhat tongue in cheek, I think the Premier League has been detrimental to the game as a whole, pushing up wages in lower leagues, introducing parachute payments and skewing the Championship, making it all about a customer experience, rather than the boys day out football used to be.  So a dilemma, I am not keen on what it stands for, for what it has done to the game, but if we don’t aim to get there, as I opened with, what’s the point of existing, with the set up and facilities we have?

I was able to see us in the top flight, so at least I have seen it, I wouldn’t want to deny anyone who wasn’t around then, that opportunity, but whilst the promotion night and some of the top flight games were amazing, I have had some genuinely brilliant times with friends and fellow City fans who I only knew to nod a hello at, in the lower leagues.  Would I want to go back, no, but I don’t want to stagnate either and not to do that will take a blend of luck, good recruitment, unearthing a gem or two from the academy - all falling into place in one season, it doesn’t feel like we are near that, but things can change quickly in football, so who knows.

 

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6 hours ago, Redstart said:

I was interested in the thread about how many decent players we all thought City currently hold with a view to a top 6 finish this season. Concensus of opinion seemed to be very few. On that basis I suspect hardly any of the current squad would actually be good enough for the Premiership.

So promotion would probably mean we'd have to rip the guts out of this team to try and survive, likely we would end up buying journeymen etc.with limited opportunity for the youngsters. The one thing that always makes me wonder is how do you motivate the current squad for a promotion push, which if successful, would probably mean they lose their job with the City. Can't be many occupations where success would  likely be rewarded with the boot.

I had this discussion recently in the pub with a mate - so we came up with a team of recent-ish players that may have done ok-ish in the premier league if we’d kept hold of them - it was (4-4-1-1)

Bentley

Dasilva

Webster

Kalas

Ayling

Bryan

Brownhill 

Smith

Eliasson

Palmer

Abraham

We were probably talking a load of old bollox because drink had been taken! But the simple truth is, we’ll never know ... and it ain’t gonna happen anytime soon in my opinion ...

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7 hours ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said:

I’ve been thinking over the last few weeks... what’s this forum going to be like if we finally make it to the promised land.  
 

Some people/supporters are really very straightforward and uncomplicated:

We win, and they are happy/content (they won't be all over this forum all night); we don’t win, and they are miserable, not satisfied, and going to be moaning like **** until we next win. 

 

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7 hours ago, myol'man said:

Mate of mine is a Swansea fan, he said once the novelty of visiting the big stadiums (high demand for limited ticket allocations) & seeing the famous names play at the Liberty had worn off & they started to struggle near the bottom they soon got fed up of hardly ever winning.

He says he's enjoying life back in the Championship

I can totally understand that..!

Of course I want us to go up, but I can see it quickly (3rd season maybe) becoming a bit tedious. Beginning each season with the sole hope and focus on not being relegated. 
I bet actually does come as something of a relief to actually come back down (as long as the club is well run and stood well financially) to then enjoy some relative success and enjoy winning games again. 
Obviously with the hope of going back up, to start the whole cycle again..! But after a year or two break, the novelty might return for another year or two..! 
 

 

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It is Professional Sport and you have to try to get to the best level you can. I am certain that every one of our players want promotion, they may well not achieve it, but they will want to test themselves at the highest level possible.

The whole point for any club is to try and better themselves, regardless of the level they are at.

How many players and coaches don’t think that way - they don’t care if the game is not entertaining, they want to win, otherwise, what is the point?

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The promotion party alone would make it worth the tough times that were to follow

But My god, if we played like we have for the last 3 winters when we got to the premier league, we'd get absolutely rinsed. By everyone. 

I'm be dying to get back down and scrape a lucky 1 nil win against Barnsley!

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1 hour ago, Renaissance Williams said:

Battered and fried, I suspect -  the former in footballing terms, the latter in financial......

Ooh, god knows about PL- was talking about us in League One dominating under Cotts vs now.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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